Reuters: Asiana passenger reportedly opens A321 emergency exit during approach

[Just a spotter]

Reuters reporting that a door was opened on an Asiana A321 while it was on approach into Daeg, South Korea.

Reuters, 26th May 2023;
SEOUL, May 26 (Reuters) - South Korean police have launched an investigation after Asiana Airlines said a passenger opened a door on a flight shortly before the aircraft landed safely in the city of Daegu on Friday.
The Airbus A321 plane landed at Daegu airport at around 12:40 p.m. (0340 GMT) after departing from the island of Jeju an hour earlier, the airport's flight schedule showed.
No one was hurt in the incident, but nine people were transferred to a nearby hospital after suffering breathing issues, a Daegu fire department official said.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/south-korea-police-investigate-after-door-opened-during-asiana-flight-2023-05-26/


Tweet with video of the alleged incidenthttps://twitter.com/aviationbrk/status/1661982909299933186

JAS

[Pilot DAR]

The news report on CNN shows the video, and it looks understandably breezy in the seats near the exit. The news reports that the exit was opened 700 feet up on approach (so no time to reseat the nearby passengers), and the offender was arrested.

[TBSC]

Another angle and the door after landing.
Terrifying moment plane door opens mid-air after ‘passenger pulls emergency exit lever’ - YouTube

[shipiskan]

I'm retired narrowbody Airbus. I always told people the doors couldn't be opened from inside when pressurized. But I guess that door is not a plug type? Can someone remind me of how those doors operate?

[Sailvi767]

Non plug doors but supposed to have electric safety mechanisms to prevent doors from opening if aircraft not on the ground.

[bille1319]

Imagine trying to open a car door at 100mph...impossible. Now try opening a door 2 x the size and weight at nearly 200mph. Also impossible unless the door opens backwards but not in the Korean snaps and that's ignoring the fact that these emergency exit doors have a red or green tab window showing its pressurized or not.

[Jonty]

Non plug doors but supposed to have electric safety mechanisms to prevent doors from opening if aircraft not on the ground.


According to the FCOM they are plug type doors. I think in this case the aircraft was pretty much depressurised as it was on approach, and the assist system managed to overcome the residual pressure and the slipstream.

[taffyhammer]

emergency doors should be mechanically locked in flight; lock is released when aircraft lands; Airbus emergency lights illuminate when aircraft is on the ground; this is part of the lock release/ground safety systems. More to this story I guess

[Jonty]

emergency doors should be mechanically locked in flight; lock is released when aircraft lands; Airbus emergency lights illuminate when aircraft is on the ground; this is part of the lock release/ground safety systems. More to this story I guess

I have heard that from someone else today.
I can see no mention of a mechanical lock in the FCOM. What would happen if the lock failed to disengage on landing, and you needed to get out in a hurry?
The only lock I can see any mention of is the normal door locking system.

[DaveReidUK]

According to the FCOM they are plug type doors. I think in this case the aircraft was pretty much depressurised as it was on approach, and the assist system managed to overcome the residual pressure and the slipstream.

Overwing emergency exits on the A319, A320 and (newer) A321 models are plug-type. This wasn't an overwing E/E.

[Jonty]

Overwing emergency exits on the A319, A320 and (newer) A321 models are plug-type. This wasn't an overwing E/E.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1668x1406/img_2086_640f14cebcee1f46e5cf540589214d9d290423a4.jpeg

[taffyhammer]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/img_0856_c893950cc0c3d8a86ee2396724f6e3268b14d490.png2
I haven’t worked Airbus for a number of years but the emergency exits do have in flight locks

[EddyCurr]

9 injured as plane's door opens before landing (http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20230526000457)
By Son Ji-hyoung
The Korea Herald 2023.05.26

According to Asiana Airlines and the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport, a male passenger in his 30s who was sitting in an emergency exit aisle pulled the emergency exit lever by force. The man reportedly claimed that he accidentally opened the door by touching the wrong device.

At least nine people suffered minor injuries and were sent to a hospital in Daegu ... The nine people had hyperventilated, according to fire authorities in Daegu. Some young passengers were reported to have panicked, crying and screaming as the air pressure deafened them. Among the injured passengers were eight student athletes traveling to compete in the National Junior Sports Festival that kicks off Saturday ...


Passenger opens door of Asiana Airlines plane before landing at Daegu airport (https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20230526006253315)
Yonhap News Agency 2023.05.26

When the suspect tried to pull the lever of the exit door, flight attendants were not able to stop him because the plane was about to land.

Witnesses said the suspect attempted to jump out after opening the door.

"Flight attendants shouted for help from male passengers and people all around clung to him and pulled him in," a witness said.

Another 44-year-old passenger said a door in the middle of the left side of the plane opened with a detonating sound about 10 minutes before landing.

Police said [the man] was not drunk at the time of detention, but remained tight-lipped about why he [opened the door].

"It is difficult to have a normal conversation with him," an official said. "We will investigate the motive of the crime and punish him."

Police said he was traveling alone.

[Jonty]

2
I haven’t worked Airbus for a number of years but the emergency exits do have in flight locks

Ah, ok. The overwings have locks. every days a school day!
But this wasn’t an overwing, it was door 3.

[DaveReidUK]

Well yes, it's true that Airbus refer to those (and the entry doors, come to that) as "plug" doors. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/embarass.gif

Everyone I've met in my career has called them "semi-plug" - the difference being that they are held in place, not by the shape of the door and the hole (i.e. like a bathplug) but by stops built into the door frame. The clue is whether the door has to move inwards (at least initially) in order to open it or whether, as with the Airbus narrow-bodies, it simply moves up to clear the stops and then outward (as per the diagram).

The important factor in this instance is how much (or little) resistance cabin pressure would put in the way of the door opening on final approach.

[Consol]

We seem to be in Pprune land back and forth between what we think the type of doors are. I fly neos and ceos. The video clearly shows a 'plug' type door. Some neos have overwing doors which are electrically locked at 80kts during take off and unlock after landing. This door was not one of those.

[DaveReidUK]

We seem to be in Pprune land back and forth between what we think the type of doors are. I fly neos and ceos. The video clearly shows a 'plug' type door. Some neos have overwing doors which are electrically locked at 80kts during take off and unlock after landing. This door was not one of those.

I don't see any confusion, other than the degree of plug-ness. :O

Like any 10-year-old A321ceo, the incident aircraft has 4 conventional doors (not hatches) on each side, L3 being the one involved.

[Consol]

I don't see any confusion, other than the degree of plug-ness. :O

Like any 10-year-old A321ceo, the incident aircraft has 4 conventional doors (not hatches) on each side, L3 being the one involved.
100% correct. Earlier ECAM pictures from a different poster clearly not relevant.

[70 Mustang]

"Flight attendants shouted for help from male passengers and people all around clung to him and pulled him in," a witness said."

I would have been thinking, "why would i want to pull him back in? I'll help him out with a kick."

[albatross]

From the photo it. appears they had an emergency slide deployment too.

Can we all agree that, impossible as it seems to some, that the man did indeed manage to get the door open in flight?

[Noxegon]

Genuinely intrigued why the gender of passengers was important in the cry for help. Culture I guess?

[Max Angle]

appears they nearly had an emergency slide deployment too.
I think the slide deployed (the door would have been armed) and was ripped off by the airflow, looks like the remains hanging out of the slide housing.

[albatross]

I think the slide deployed (the door would have been armed) and was ripped off by the airflow, looks like the remains hanging out of the slide housing.
Another site states that the slide did deploy and was torn off by the airflow…I wonder where it ended up. I edited my post to reflect this.

[Bksmithca]

Another site states that the slide did deploy and was torn off by the airflow…I wonder where it ended up. I edited my post to reflect this.
According to the article they were at 200 ft so suspect within 1/2 mile of the end of the runway. I'd start looking about a mile back of the runway unless there were winds

[rock-the-boat]

Genuinely intrigued why the gender of passengers was important in the cry for help. Culture I guess?
Its not cultural, but factual reporting, something no longer tolerated in the west, fortunately in the Far East facts are still taken at face value and not manipulated to provide fertiliser for idiotic ideology.

[SkiFan]

Another site states that the slide did deploy and was torn off by the airflow…I wonder where it ended up.

Fortunately not wrapped around the left side elevator which might have resulted in an even more exciting situation. :ooh:

[pilotmike]

Genuinely intrigued why the gender of passengers was important in the cry for help. Culture I guess?
Because in these politically correct, woke days, if females were asked to touch a man's legs without his consent, it could lead to claims of molestation. Always safer to specifically ask for gender-neutral, non-binary persons, to avoid any sort of trouble in the air! :ok:

[Mr Good Cat]

Maybe it was part of a task on Squid Game.

[porterpat]

Spot on!!

[etrang]

It has always been claimed that opening a door in-flight, even when the cabin was not pressurized, was impossible because of the airflow.
It seems that the combined wisdom of Pprune was wrong.

[DaveReidUK]

It has always been claimed that opening a door in-flight, even when the cabin was not pressurized, was impossible because of the airflow.
It seems that the combined wisdom of Pprune was wrong.

There are indeed many posts about opening doors in flight, but a quick search reveals that almost all of them concern GA types, not airliners.

Where are all the posts that you are referring to?

[HOVIS]

AFAIK there are no door flt locks on the Airbus 320 series CEO. It is called a plug door because when it is shut the differential pressure pushes the lugs on the door against corresponding lugs on the airframe. On descent and approach the differential pressure equalises with ambient pressure to allow the doors to be opened in the event of an emergency.
I'm still impressed that the door assist system was able to open the door against the airflow though.
Could have been a whole lot worse if the slide had ended up wrapped around the tail section.

[etrang]

There are indeed many posts about opening doors in flight, but a quick search reveals that almost all of them concern GA types, not airliners.

Where are all the posts that you are referring to?

Every time there's an event where a passenger attempts to open a door in flight, many ppruners jump up to say it's impossible.
Try looking in the Pax and SLF forum. Even in this thread people have said it should be impossible, and if there wasn't video evidence
i'm sure they would be claiming it didn't happen.

[DaveReidUK]

Another site states that the slide did deploy and was torn off by the airflow…I wonder where it ended up. I edited my post to reflect this.

Best photo I've seen (source: BBC) showing the remains of the slide:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/976x549/_129874295_airplanedoor_3e57c0872a0bdda16f875f8ce9c117625fe2 1efc.jpg

If I'm not mistaken, the door looks a bit skewed compared to its normal open position, suggesting something got a bit bent in the process ...

[Jonty]

Every time there's an event where a passenger attempts to open a door in flight, many ppruners jump up to say it's impossible.
Try looking in the Pax and SLF forum. Even in this thread people have said it should be impossible, and if there wasn't video evidence
i'm sure they would be claiming it didn't happen.

There’s a few things to be cleared up here.

it’s impossible to open a door against a fully pressurised cabin. So can a cabin door be opened inflight? Yes, but only in very specific circumstances. In normal cruise flight, at cruise altitude, it’s impossible.

[DaveReidUK]

it’s impossible to open a door against a fully pressurised cabin. So can a cabin door be opened inflight? Yes, but only in very specific circumstances. In normal cruise flight, at cruise altitude, it’s impossible.

It would be more accurate to say that it's impossible to open a door that initially moves inwards against a fully pressurised cabin, for obvious reasons.

Doors like those on narrow-body Airbuses, that move upwards and then outwards, are subject to different considerations. It may be that cruise diff pressure is sufficient to prevent the upwards movement of the door, but I wouldn't want to bet on that. Nor, presumably, would Asiana.

[etrang]

It would be more accurate to say that it's impossible to open a door that initially moves inwards against a fully pressurised cabin, for obvious reasons.

Doors like those on narrow-body Airbuses, that move upwards and then outwards, are subject to different considerations. It may be that cruise diff pressure is sufficient to prevent the upwards movement of the door, but I wouldn't want to bet on that. Nor, presumably, would Asiana.

This comment is from this very thread, not far above yours.

"Imagine trying to open a car door at 100mph...impossible. Now try opening a door 2 x the size and weight at nearly 200mph. Also impossible unless the door opens backwards"

[Jonty]

It would be more accurate to say that it's impossible to open a door that initially moves inwards against a fully pressurised cabin, for obvious reasons.

Doors like those on narrow-body Airbuses, that move upwards and then outwards, are subject to different considerations. It may be that cruise diff pressure is sufficient to prevent the upwards movement of the door, but I wouldn't want to bet on that. Nor, presumably, would Asiana.

From what I understand, there’s a whole section of door at the top that folds inwards (but not by much) this allows the door to move upwards and over the door stops, then out. So the pressurisation should hold the door against the stops, and not allow the panel at the top to move inwards. I have to admit I haven’t tried it, but I bet it’s bloody difficult/impossible to do. Otherwise there’s a small leaver between you and an enormous drop! And I can’t see that being allowed by the authorities.

[Jonty]

This comment is from this very thread, not far above yours.

"Imagine trying to open a car door at 100mph...impossible. Now try opening a door 2 x the size and weight at nearly 200mph. Also impossible unless the door opens backwards"

I’m going to point out that the 200mph comment makes no sense. This isn’t a car door, it has very powerful power assist. Its cross section against the airflow is quite small, and where this door is, is just behind the wing, so is aerodynamically blanked anyway.

[EddyCurr]

I'm still impressed that the door assist system was able to open the door against the airflow though.

Me too. That the door wasn't just ajar, but seemingly fully open in the video got my attention.

A crosswind on approach? Perhaps a crab into the wind on final changed laminar flow in the vicinity of LD3 in a manner that made the door fully open more easily than might otherwise have been the case?

[EddyCurr]

Its cross section against the airflow is quite small, and where this door is, is just behind the wing, so is aerodynamically blanked anyway.

You are saying that in-flight repositioning of an object with the dimensions and aerodynamics of an A321 cabin door, one that has to extend outward from the hull and articulate forward to fully open, is a trivial matter?https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x630/a321_neo_pratt_whitney_white_sm_db478dd7209b6418e55029ffd78e 8fa0c588e177.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/976x549/_129874295_airplanedoor_3e57c0872a0bdda16f875f8ce9c117625fe2 1efc_4f105720789f448bfdbf75a4075d43d624644057.jpg

[Jonty]

You are saying that in-flight repositioning of an object with the dimensions and aerodynamics of an A321 cabin door, one that has to extend outward from the hull and articulate forward to fully open, is a trivial matter?

Im saying the power assist was obviously able to overcome it, so yes.

[DaveReidUK]

From what I understand, there’s a whole section of door at the top that folds inwards (but not by much) this allows the door to move upwards and over the door stops, then out. So the pressurisation should hold the door against the stops, and not allow the panel at the top to move inwards.

The panel is just a relatively flimsy bit of falsework that conceals the two upper door supports when the door is closed and drops down when the door is opening to allow clearance for them to operate:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/824x1166/a32x_door_upper_supports_3118e0fd593fab41e2af2bb650040016415 83900.jpg

The panel doesn't play any part in containing or relieving cabin pressure, nor in allowing upward movement of the door.

In the photo of the Asiana aircraft, one of the two supports can be seen to have detached and is hanging down.

[Klimax]

Its not cultural, but factual reporting, something no longer tolerated in the west, fortunately in the Far East facts are still taken at face value and not manipulated to provide fertiliser for idiotic ideology.
F@cking spot on. Jez! ;-)

[Herod]

I'm puzzled. It's not an overwing, but the No. 3 door. Surely, to open that, the passenger would have had to be unstrapped and standing up. Anybody able to add to that?

[DaveReidUK]

I'm puzzled. It's not an overwing, but the No. 3 door. Surely, to open that, the passenger would have had to be unstrapped and standing up. Anybody able to add to that?

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/594x1063/opening_door_seated_b6a25a878548ac934886eefa7e9f762ece8d1a1a .jpg

[Jonty]

The panel is just a relatively flimsy bit of falsework that conceals the two upper door supports when the door is closed and drops down when the door is opening to allow clearance for them to operate:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/824x1166/a32x_door_upper_supports_3118e0fd593fab41e2af2bb650040016415 83900.jpg

The panel doesn't play any part in containing or relieving cabin pressure, nor in allowing upward movement of the door.

In the photo of the Asiana aircraft, one of the two supports can be seen to have detached and is hanging down.

That wasn’t the bit I meant, but I was getting 2 types mixed up, so the bit I was taking about doesn’t exist anyway!
I still don’t think you can open a door against the stops while it’s fully pressurised. Just imagine if you could. What the consequences of that would be. And the doors aren’t guarded during flight. It would be far too easy to do some major damage and kill a lot of people.

[BlankBox]

Can the door "hydraulics" be adjusted up/down to accomadate lighter framed cabin crew? Seems strange it could overcome 180/200 mph breeze from the front...even edge on that'a a lot of door!!

[Stockportcounty]

Desperate for the Loo maybe.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1988158/1-female-passenger-mistakes-exit-door-toilet-pia-flight?amp=1

[HOVIS]

Can the door "hydraulics" be adjusted up/down to accomadate lighter framed cabin crew? Seems strange it could overcome 180/200 mph breeze from the front...even edge on that'a a lot of door!!
There are no hydraulics. It's purely mechanical and no, not adjustable. The emergency assist is provided by a pressurised nitrogen bottle through a pneumatic ram.

[bille1319]

This is the first case of the emergency exit door being opened mid air for a suicide attempt. What's to prevent this occurring again now that we know these emergency exit doors easily open mid air? It doesn't fill me with confidence. Next time I'm on an airbus should I worry about the state of mind of the passengers sitting beside emergency exits. It took 911 to make great safety changes. Maybe airbus should look into this.

[I-NNAV]

From the photo it. appears they had an emergency slide deployment too.

Can we all agree that, impossible as it seems to some, that the man did indeed manage to get the door open in flight?

This is the first case of the emergency exit door being opened mid air for a suicide attempt. What's to prevent this occurring again now that we know these emergency exit doors easily open mid air? It doesn't fill me with confidence. Next time I'm on an airbus should I worry about the state of mind of the passengers sitting beside emergency exits. It took 911 to make great safety changes. Maybe airbus should look into this.

Wear a seat belt when close to the ground.

[bille1319]

Wear a seat belt when close to the ground.

Ah.. So that's the reason.

[FlightlessParrot]

You are saying that in-flight repositioning of an object with the dimensions and aerodynamics of an A321 cabin door, one that has to extend outward from the hull and articulate forward to fully open, is a trivial matter?


I think the point is that it does NOT have to "articulate forward" to open, assuming that that means swinging like an ordinary door on a hinge. As far as I can see the door moves outwards a little, presenting its edge to the airflow, and then translates forward like a sliding door. I don't know how to calculate the forces, but they'd evidently be lower than if the door just swung out like an airbrake.

[Jonty]

Wear a seat belt when close to the ground.

flight crew wear one all the time in the flight deck. I would suggest passengers do the same while sat down.

[MechEngr]

At 300 fps it's roughly 0.75psi dynamic pressure, so on a 5 inch thick * 80 inch (edge-on) door, about 300 pounds of force. Seems a bit high for a person, but the passenger can get some good footing to brace that motion. At 200 fps it's down to only 130 pounds of force.
How glorious - 1 foot per second ~ 1 kph and 1 kph is about 0.54 knts.

Not only keep your seatbelt on but also stow all items in preparation for landing.

Comparisons to car doors are a bit off as most people in cars would be using only their arms and not have a good position to apply much force and would be applying that force at the door handle, which is close to the hinge, decreasing the leverage they do have. There is also the non-linearity to the typical car door - the force increases as the door opening widens, where in this case the force is about the same once the door completely enters the airstream. It might even ease up a bit on the plane if the leading edge of the door enters first and is deflected outward by the oncoming wind.

The easy means to prevent this from happening in flight is keep the cabin pressure on a little bit until the plane exits the runway. Set the cabin altitude to 2-5000 feet below the runway altitude - that should keep the door shut. Bad news - that would add more ear drum distress to everyone else because of this twit.

This should be a reminder that if anyone is out of their seat when they should not be - everyone nearby should be out of their seat to stop them.

[Less Hair]

Would you want to unbuckle to stop somebody crazy fiddling with the door handle? The flight attendant should be interfering, including violently if needed. They might need a legal permit to do so and some police training.
There will be many more airline passengers from third world countries in general in the future so its about time to think about better dealing with first timers, scared, uneducated and unable to read anything passengers on board aside from this person who felt "scared" and panicked.

[MechEngr]

No - I want to unbuckle to stop anyone moving down the aisle before they get to the door, to the flight attendant, to whatever moron thing this person has in mind.

I think this particular passenger wasn't scared of flying and completely understood what was going on and intended to commit suicide; this wasn't panic - this was premeditated. Passengers did grab him and pull him back into the plane.

But that was this time. If that passenger had something else in mind it's in the best interest of the passengers to react rapidly. If, like 9/11, this was a distraction for a more involved scenario, squelching it is imperative.

[Jonty]

One of the main issues is that the passenger doesn’t have to even get up. They would have to move the door control handle to about the 90 degree position, the door will do the rest.

Apart from the obvious safety issues of having a door open inflight, the main “aircraft” safety issue is the deployment of the slide. If that thing gets wrapped round the tail you’re in a whole world of pain.
looking at what has happened here the aircraft is flyable with the door open, so at least that’s something.
I think having the cabin over pressurised to keep the door shut is a bad idea. If something were to happen on landing the aircraft would go up like a bomb.
The idea of a lock is something, but what if it doesn’t unlock in an emergency?
Maybe lowering the PSI in the power assist bottle would work, so the door cannot open into the slipstream?

[MechEngr]

0.4 psi on the door would keep it shut. 30 inches X 80 inches -> ~1000 pounds of force to pull in against to get it off the stops.

It would not go off like a bomb. This is about the pressure at 1 foot of water depth (1/3 meter) - in the USA we call the cup that carries that much soda "Small."

[DaveReidUK]

No - I want to unbuckle to stop anyone moving down the aisle before they get to the door, to the flight attendant, to whatever moron thing this person has in mind.

The passenger appears to have been seated in 26A, which would have their knees brushing against L3, and no need to move, or even unbuckle, to reach the door handle. The F/A would have been seated facing the absent 26F, so good luck in stopping the door handle being raised.

N.B. the photo I posted in #46 is unrepresentative (it's a cabin trainer) - at L3, the A321 has the triple on the left and the double (plus F/A seat) on the right.

[DaveReidUK]

0.4 psi on the door would keep it shut. 30 inches X 80 inches -> ~1000 pounds of force to pull in against to get it off the stops.

I’d want to know a lot more about the door mechanics before concurring with that.

Clearly, the stops prevent direct outward motion of the door (whether or not there is cabin pressure). The door therefore needs to move upwards in order to clear the stops before moving outwards and then forwards.

How much resistance the stops present to upward movement of the door is a function not just of the pressure on the door forcing it against the stops, but also the friction between the door and the stops. The countless videos of A32x door operation don’t appear to show any appreciable inward movement of the door prior to lifting, so I doubt there is any geometric interference. The mechanical advantage provided by the handle is another factor, bearing in mind that raising the handle by approximately a foot appears to only lift the door by the 3 cm or so necessary to clear the stops.

[Eutychus]

Asiana's immediate response appears to be to stop the seat in question being occupied:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/28/south-korean-airline-bans-emergency-seats-after-plane-door-opens

[EddyCurr]

You are saying that in-flight repositioning of an object with the dimensions and aerodynamics of an A321 cabin door, one that has to extend outward from the hull and articulate forward to fully open, is a trivial matter?I think the point is that it does NOT have to "articulate forward" to open, assuming that that means swinging like an ordinary door on a hinge. As far as I can see the door moves outwards a little, presenting its edge to the airflow, and then translates forward like a sliding door. I don't know how to calculate the forces, but they'd evidently be lower than if the door just swung out like an airbrake.

The cabin door is hinged; it is NOT on tracks and it does not slide.

The design of the cabin door hinge mechanism is such that upon actuation, the hinge mechanism extends the door outward from the hull and articulates it forward to the fully open position while maintaining the door (mostly) parallel to the hull.
.
Passenger Door Emergency Opening A320 Family - YouTube.
Cabin videos of this event illustrate the extent of buffeting around the door opening. Projecting something the size of a cabin door out and forward into that air stream, even "on edge", is non-trivial. When I posted my earlier remark I overlooked the fact that door opening assist devices are armed in flight. It was unnecessary for the perpetrator to manually provide the considerable effort required to move the door to the fully open position.

[DaveReidUK]

Cabin videos of this event illustrate the extent of buffeting around the door opening. Projecting something the size of a cabin door out and forward into that air stream, even "on edge", is non-trivial.

Worth noting also that the forces on the door when opening in flight were sufficient to fracture one of the two top supports, as noted previously.

[pineteam]

These doors on A320 do move slightly inward and upward during opening.
https://youtu.be/B-EFGE3N13k

at 45 seconds

[tubby linton]

I wonder if as a consequence of the door opening in flight the frame in that location has been twisted?

[goeasy]

I would be interested to know if there was any malfunction or manual adjustment of the pressurisation system on this flight... Having flown Airbus of many years I would have sworn that this could not happen without non-standard pressurisation.

I also hope someone covering Korean media can update us all on the further repercussions for the passenger concerned. Please....

[Lancelot de boyles]

Is this the same door?
https://youtu.be/uDqPpXZI5q4

(YouTube video, A321 L3 door trainer, SIM Tech manufacturing, in case the link doesn’t work)

If so, in light of recent events, maybe the short term solution is a burly cabin crew member stationed at these doors. 757 5th cabin crew (a very vague recollection) was sat at or near the corresponding location. Maybe.

[MechEngr]

What are all other operators of this design doing? Any word from Airbus?

[netstruggler]

I would be interested to know if there was any malfunction or manual adjustment of the pressurisation system on this flight... Having flown Airbus of many years I would have sworn that this could not happen without non-standard pressurisation.

I also hope someone covering Korean media can update us all on the further repercussions for the passenger concerned. Please....

As SLF I’ve sometimes wondered how cabin pressure behaves on descent.

Above 10,000ft or so there is obviously positive pressure inside compared to outside. Once the aircraft starts descending below that height does the cabin pressure just track the outside atmosphere or is there a lag? If it lags you’d get a slight negative pressure inside the cabin wouldn’t you?

(I would assume there would be a lag to manage the rate of pressure change for passenger comfort.)

Either way, haven’t you lost any positive pressure locking effect?

[DaveReidUK]

Is this the same door?

If so, in light of recent events, maybe the short term solution is a burly cabin crew member stationed at these doors. 757 5th cabin crew (a very vague recollection) was sat at or near the corresponding location. Maybe.

Yes, that's the door in question. Note, by the way, that you can operate the door even seated in the centre seat of the triple (although the passenger in A might have something to say about that ...)

There are of course 8 of these doors on an A321ceo, so an F/A adjacent to each door isn't going to happen.

[DaveReidUK]

What are all other operators of this design doing? Any word from Airbus?

I don't know about the operators or manufacturer, but there are confusing reports that Asiana will no longer sell the seat adjacent to (presumably) the L2 and L3 exits on their A321ceo - confusing because all the reports quote seats 26A (which is next to the L3 door) and 31A (which is nowhere near any of the doors).

S Korea's Asiana Airlines bans emergency seats after door opens (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/28/south-korean-airline-bans-emergency-seats-after-plane-door-opens)

Note also the video a couple of posts back showing that it's not just seat A that can reach the handle easily.

I have a feeling this is going to run and run, with some fairly profound implications for the industry ...
​​​​​​

[ScouseJon]

I'm retired narrowbody Airbus. I always told people the doors couldn't be opened from inside when pressurized. But I guess that door is not a plug type? Can someone remind me of how those doors operate?
It is a plug type door. The first motion of the door opening is the the top and bottom section of the door move inwards, the door then moves slightly up off of the stops, the door then moves out. Normally cabin pressure prevents the top and bottom section moving inwards, preventing the door moving at all, let alone inwards.

[ScouseJon]

I’d want to know a lot more about the door mechanics before concurring with that.

Clearly, the stops prevent direct outward motion of the door (whether or not there is cabin pressure). The door therefore needs to move upwards in order to clear the stops before moving outwards and then forwards.

How much resistance the stops present to upward movement of the door is a function not just of the pressure on the door forcing it against the stops, but also the friction between the door and the stops. The countless videos of A32x door operation don’t appear to show any appreciable inward movement of the door prior to lifting, so I doubt there is any geometric interference. The mechanical advantage provided by the handle is another factor, bearing in mind that raising the handle by approximately a foot appears to only lift the door by the 3 cm or so necessary to clear the stops.
I will dig the AMM out if you are really interested, but there is a slight inward movement on the door before it moves upwards from the stops. I've not done much work on these doors, but have rigged plenty of A330 doors in my time.

[megan]

blancolirio explanation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf0yT8kN49U

[MechEngr]

No - the slide would not reach the engine. As it extends it will be bent back by the slipstream to lie along the fuselage until it extends far enough to have enough drag to tear it loose. There have been deployments where ground winds were enough that the slide was pushed out of position. If you don't look first it might be a jump straight to the pavement.

The link that broke takes tension load when the plane decelerates. I don't think uniform/constant braking alone would be enough, but if the brakes are applied and then eased, the mechanism is sufficiently springy that the door would swing backwards, and then re-applying the brakes would give the door a running start to hit the travel hard stop in the links. There is a mention of the gust lock, but that might only provide control to keep the door from closing and might not be rigid enough to prevent it from moving.

I noticed a striped bar across the opening - is that part of the door assembly so that the exit can be marked as not suitable in the event the door opens and the slide fails? If so, Airbus almost thought of everything.

That pin-in-groove could be made to take a substantial force.

I would not call it a plug door or semiplug door. A plug door seal should be compressed by the inside air pressure. The door is prevented from moving outward because that seal is in contact with the sealing surfaces. This is a finger capture door with pins extending like fingers. Internal pressure will tend to decrease the compression on the seal and failure of the fingers will allow the door to exit the fuselage.

For example of plug vs non-plug:

The 737 Classic (?) overwing emergency exits are plug doors - noted on one flight by the way that daylight through a 1/4 inch seal gap went away as the plane was pressurized and the plug forced into position. The NG changed it to an interlocked non-plug door.

See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sj53BawjQg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zyxy3naQh0

The 737 main doors are plug doors - first having to come entirely into the plane before going edgewise out to clear the seals.
For all one ever wanted to know about 737 doors:
https://youtu.be/WLfT5WJz-6s?t=205

Seems like Airbus should have an electro-mechanical interlock on the non-plug doors.

[DaveReidUK]

I will dig the AMM out if you are really interested, but there is a slight inward movement on the door before it moves upwards from the stops.

Yes, having had a closer look at some clips of door opening from the outside, I see that there is a barely detectable inward movement (appears to be about one millimeter) before the door starts to lift. Obviously, given that the door is supposedly flush with the fuselage skin when closed, it can't move significantly inwards and then immediately upwards (unless it's an L1011-type door that retracts into the ceiling).

So the $64K question is whether, even with a modest amount of cabin pressure hindering that mm of inward movement, it's still possible to graunch the door up while overcoming the friction between the stops until it's free to move outwards, at which point the actuator takes over and drives the door forwards.

No doubt other explanations for what happened are available.:O

I would indeed be interested in seeing the AMM.

[DaveReidUK]

I noticed a striped bar across the opening - is that part of the door assembly so that the exit can be marked as not suitable in the event the door opens and the slide fails? If so, Airbus almost thought of everything.

That's typically a retractable tape, rather than a rigid bar, to warn crew/pax that there is a drop to the ground (though of course it should never be needed in normal operation, more often seen in the hangar).

A bit like the annoying belt barriers that make you walk in unnecessary zigzags when checking in. :O

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/642x216/door_tape_2ba97ebbf0544642ef43037a35da40d44930fd4a.jpg

[HOVIS]

No - the slide would not reach the engine. As it extends it will be bent back by the slipstream to lie along the fuselage until it extends far enough to have enough drag to tear it loose. There have been deployments where ground winds were enough that the slide was pushed out of position. If you don't look first it might be a jump straight to the pavement.

The link that broke takes tension load when the plane decelerates. I don't think uniform/constant braking alone would be enough, but if the brakes are applied and then eased, the mechanism is sufficiently springy that the door would swing backwards, and then re-applying the brakes would give the door a running start to hit the travel hard stop in the links. There is a mention of the gust lock, but that might only provide control to keep the door from closing and might not be rigid enough to prevent it from moving.

I noticed a striped bar across the opening - is that part of the door assembly so that the exit can be marked as not suitable in the event the door opens and the slide fails? If so, Airbus almost thought of everything.

That pin-in-groove could be made to take a substantial force.

I would not call it a plug door or semiplug door. A plug door seal should be compressed by the inside air pressure. The door is prevented from moving outward because that seal is in contact with the sealing surfaces. This is a finger capture door with pins extending like fingers. Internal pressure will tend to decrease the compression on the seal and failure of the fingers will allow the door to exit the fuselage.

For example of plug vs non-plug:

The 737 Classic (?) overwing emergency exits are plug doors - noted on one flight by the way that daylight through a 1/4 inch seal gap went away as the plane was pressurized and the plug forced into position. The NG changed it to an interlocked non-plug door.

See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sj53BawjQg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zyxy3naQh0

The 737 main doors are plug doors - first having to come entirely into the plane before going edgewise out to clear the seals.
For all one ever wanted to know about 737 doors:
https://youtu.be/WLfT5WJz-6s?t=205

Seems like Airbus should have an electro-mechanical interlock on the non-plug doors.
The broken link is a guide rod, it orientates the door correctly so it stays parallel with the fuselage when opening/closing. It's not there to take any loads under braking. The gust lock is designed to hold the door open. In normal operation against the wind, in an emergency, if the aircraft has come to rest in an attitude that would cause the door to fall closed it will keep the door open against gravity. It's a pretty solid latch and a nogo item if it doesn't work. 737 is similar but in my experience the Boeing design is a bit less robust.
The Airbus door is still considered a 'plug' type.
I agree however that the door flight locks as fitted to the bigger Boeings should be mandated on all types.

[MechEngr]

It's not intended to take loads under braking - it did take loads under landing and braking because the door was open; that is how it broke.

If that's considered a plug door then all doors on all aircraft are plug doors. Functionally it isn't a plug.

[BFSGrad]

If that's considered a plug door then all doors on all aircraft are plug doors. Functionally it isn't a plug.Perhaps best described as a hybrid plug door. Certainly not a traditional plug door; i.e., can only be opened inward due to the door dimensions relative to the opening. The Airbus door appears to elongate when latched but is that elongating structure part of the door or the door latching mechanism?

[DaveReidUK]

Perhaps best described as a hybrid plug door. Certainly not a traditional plug door; i.e., can only be opened inward due to the door dimensions relative to the opening. The Airbus door appears to elongate when latched but is that elongating structure part of the door or the door latching mechanism?

It doesn't elongate, it lifts relative to the airframe. That's how it clears the stops.

You are correct in saying that neither the height nor the width of the door is greater than the corresponding dimension of the opening, so describing it as plug (as Airbus does) is stretching it a bit (npi).

[Flyhighfirst]

I'm retired narrowbody Airbus. I always told people the doors couldn't be opened from inside when pressurized. But I guess that door is not a plug type? Can someone remind me of how those doors operate?

At 700 feet there really is no pressure differential.

[DaveReidUK]

At 700 feet there really is no pressure differential.

FWIW, here's what purports to be a typical pressurisation schedule:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/674x361/differential_pressure_in_a_fuselage_during_flight_phases_f94 100f13d47f3cc722ce2106328dbef11fc9c29.jpg

[Eutychus]

FWIW, here's what purports to be a typical pressurisation schedule:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/674x361/differential_pressure_in_a_fuselage_during_flight_phases_f94 100f13d47f3cc722ce2106328dbef11fc9c29.jpg

I like the "DECENT" phase :)

[Busbuoy]

I like the "DECENT" phase :)
It's certainly the only appropriate time to be INDECENT.

[Koan]

Sounds like OZ reaction to not sell exit row seats now is a ridiculous over reaction but as long as they are available for staff and interline ZED fares maybe it is a good idea!

[hoistop]

Yes, having had a closer look at some clips of door opening from the outside, I see that there is a barely detectable inward movement (appears to be about one millimeter) before the door starts to lift. Obviously, given that the door is supposedly flush with the fuselage skin when closed, it can't move significantly inwards and then immediately upwards (unless it's an L1011-type door that retracts into the ceiling).

So the $64K question is whether, even with a modest amount of cabin pressure hindering that mm of inward movement, it's still possible to graunch the door up while overcoming the friction between the stops until it's free to move outwards, at which point the actuator takes over and drives the door forwards.

No doubt other explanations for what happened are available.:O

I would indeed be interested in seeing the AMM.

Hello,

I will try to explain a bit about these doors - am unpleasently surprised that on PPRUNE we could not get the right information after full four pages, but there is a lot of misinformation and opinions. This fourm just to be full of experts, now it is full of wannabees, that should read and learn, not provide half informed opinions.
Door is not a typical plug type, as found on 737 or DC-9/MD-80. There are 14 door stops, that take the pressure load from door to door frame. There are 4 rollers, sticking out from the door to engage in roller guides on the frame, guiding doors into position (vertical movement and slight in/out movement, defined by geometry of roller guides) When opening, door is first lifted up via lever (with a minimal movement inwards to clear the door stops, onto which doors are pushed by inner pressure) then moved outwards. When doors are armed, lifting them upwards causes a disk in small pressure cylinder to be punctured and nitrogen under pressure is released into damper, thus making it pneumatic actuator, that forces doors outwards, at the same time pulling slide activating cord.
Pressure differential just before landing is minimal - in automatic mode, Cabin Pressure Controller will schedule the pressure differential down to 0,1 psi positive pressure on touchdown. (see diagram) When Weight on Wheels is sensed, this will be slowly released, so in 55 sec after touchdown, pressure is completelly equalized.
I can attest that this minimal pressure differential can be overcome, as my colleague unfortunatelly tested first hand in the hangar - he tried to open the door from the outside, not knowing that there is slight residual overpressure-(some testing of aircondition just finished). He managed to force the lever up, overlooked the red warning light in the window (cabin press) and door pushed him enough to tumble down the (improvised) steps. (just by pressure differential, actuator was not activated as door wasn`t armed)
So, yes, doors can be opened if pressure differential is small enough and enough force is exerted on door lever (and red flashing warning light is ignored). So this particular gentleman could not open it by just "touching" the lever. It was a deliberate action.

[DaveReidUK]

Thanks for that.

While most of the above has been covered in various posts (amid a number of red herrings :O), it's useful to have it all in one place.

So this particular gentleman could not open it by just "touching" the lever. It was a deliberate action.

Yes, I believe the guilty party has already acknowledged that it was intentional, albeit by someone not necessarily acting rationally.

Out of interest, do you have any feel for how much diff pressure would be enough to make forcing the door up to clear the stops impossible ?

[hoistop]

Thanks for that.

While most of the above has been covered in various posts (amid a number of red herrings :O), it's useful to have it all in one place.



Yes, I believe the guilty party has already acknowledged that it was intentional, albeit by someone not necessarily acting rationally.

Out of interest, do you have any feel for how much diff pressure would be enough to make forcing the door up to clear the stops impossible ?


Yes, I was so slow with preparing the photo, that in posts #85 and #86 the press. schedule was already published... getting lazy...
I could not find the definite answer to your question - I can only say that stronger you are on the door lever, more pressure you can overcome, as lifting the door out of closed position is purely mechanical (with some assisst of springs, that support the majority of the door weight)... I have heard a story from Toulouse from late eighties, when the type was new, where allegedly someone really forced the lever up from the outside, while the cabin was under some pressure and resultant violent opening of the door destructed door hinge and sent particular person flying down the stairs with serious injuries - but this is from my memory from over 30 years ago... The only number I have is warning at 0,037 psi delta - it is provided by a dedicated sensitive pressure switch, installed below cockpit. It is unfortunate, that these doors have no flap to relieve pressure, the same way as they are installed in cargo doors - there the flap is a must, as even slightest pressure differential will send the door into someone`s head upon opening.