Toxic

[HoldenCaufield]

An extract from a training firms website plus some examples I could think of off the top of my head. 'The Seven Signs of A Toxic Work Environment'

The following behaviors and work conditions could be signs of a toxic work environment:


Pervasive office gossip. Talking about what’s happening at work with the people you work with is only natural. However, when those conversations turn negative and non-productive, they can cross the threshold and become petty gossip. It is never a good sign when gossip, rather than constructive feedback, becomes the norm in an organization.

Gossip here has always been out of control here, like my Granny's knitting group on speed, but removing Yammer certainly didn't help.

High levels of workplace stress. Every job carries with it its own set of responsibilities and the occasional tight deadline. But that feeling that everyone is constantly running on fumes because everything is constantly “on fire,” is usually unhealthy.

​​​​​​​Overwhelmed training system, reduced experience for FOs & CNs, reduced training sectors for all
Threat emails such as the recent 'taxi quicker' love note
D&G for any number of things
Financial penalties for calling in sick
Forced contract changes that many are still adjusting too with their families

No care for mental health and physical health. Covid and work from home really changed how we talk about mental and physical health at work. There’s now much more alignment among company leaders that considering and supporting employees’ mental and physical health is important. A workplace that doesn’t allow employees to take care of their whole selves might be toxic.

​​​​​​​If the company and all its managers not standing up for crews during the inhuman COVID requirements period aren't example enough;
D&G (presented in a intimidatory manner) for sick leave and/or mental stress leave
Delayed command courses & upgrades for those who put safety first & took time off
Severe reduction to medical insurance & preventative health benefits
Reduced annual leave for all levels

Unsustainable work hours. Constant demands to work outside of business hours erodes work-life balance and ultimately leads to toxicity.

Unstable roster
Technically legal but physically demanding rostering practices that promote fatigue
A roster request system that seems to puzzle all users, offering little to no control over work-life balance for crews

Lack of respect for personal and professional boundaries. Just as with romantic partners, friends, and family, setting boundaries with work is important. If those boundaries are consistently violated, the workplace may be unhealthy.

​​​​​​​Paperwork, reports & admin expected on days off
Requirement to reveal private medical details on sickness certificate

A lack of investment in DEI (diversity, equity, and inclusion) efforts. Research proves that the best work is done when people who don’t think alike, look alike, or share overly similar lived experiences come together. A homogeneous workplace, or one that isn’t attempting to invest in and support a diverse team, may be toxic.

​​​​​​​Having 4 women fly a plane together to tick the women box once a year
Putting rainbows up on the street to tick the LGBTI+ box once a year
Closer of bases and loss of high levels of experience

Failure to recognize good performance. Good work always deserves recognition. A healthy team is one that celebrates stellar work, as well as the people who went above and beyond to do it.

Just like a PC, ​​​​​​​mistakes, omissions and errors are well documented and discussed, good work gets a 'quick mention' from time to time
Any kind of sick leave seems to eliminate any amount of good work done previously
Managers rewarded with up 50% financial reward for their 'good work' whilst those who kept the airline operating during the most significant crisis in its history got a small ex-gratia payment, plus all of the above

[LootedfromCPA]

Well said. When Yammer got taken away and was replaced with a linkedin version positive vibes only cathay social, management did not even have to hide the fact they gave 2 sh*ts about the concerns crew. Every policy revision has only gotten worse. How does a company turn a payraise into a paycut? How does a company charge super high fares and still not have profits to share? How did C suite execs make double the salary when the company was at a loss and poorly managed? How do you get away with paying 9100 HKD to cabin crew living in the most expensive city in the world? Like all oppressed individuals, we can only suffer in silence. Not a word, just in silence.

Will the company start requesting having our pprune posts tracked to our real names in the future? I wouldn't be surprised.

[AQIS Boigu]

You all remember the Haddon-Cave survey?

He criticised the usual CX issues (similar to what was listed above, ie.: absence management, split duties, fatigue, toxic work environment…)

Literally nothing came from it

[Babyjet_dododo]

You all remember the Haddon-Cave survey?

He criticised the usual CX issues (similar to what was listed above, ie.: absence management, split duties, fatigue, toxic work environment…)

Literally nothing came from it

I was pulled into a face-to-face survey about 8 years ago. Apparently the findings were so disturbing they refused to publish it.

[magenta magnet]

literally every single airline in the world... if you want happiness then it seems either flight instructor at a tiny school or flying in Alaska, but then there is no money.
people may think that the sandbox airlines are fantastic, why? because it seems if you throw more money at employees they just shut their mouths and accept anything, and yes that is true.
everyone is suddenly jumping up and down about EK and SQ profit share, they're doing that because those places are ALSO toxic to work for, so just throw money at the problem and people will smile.
ask yourself, if CX sent out a notice and said every single employee will get $500k bonus as a thank you, would everyone suddenly start loving CX and patting each other on the back? or would this forum still exist..
all companies are more or less the same, if you delve into office politics then its a downward slope. I honestly don't care what the CEO earns, didn't he earn something staggering like $8m? It really would make no difference to anyone if he earned $1m, if his salary was reduced to that and we have 20,000 employees, that's an extra $350 per employee, makes no difference at the end of the day... anyway I digress, don't let their pay get you down. If you think other companies are better, then by all means try them and see, at the rate CX is going you can always come back.

[Zi Peng]

So according to your logic since pilots would still hate the company anyway CX might as well not give them any money or even better make conditions even worse ?
Is that the logic behind the last threshold adjustment ?
I didn’t see that coming I confess but it makes perfect sense with this kind of thinking.

literally every single airline in the world... if you want happiness then it seems either flight instructor at a tiny school or flying in Alaska, but then there is no money.
people may think that the sandbox airlines are fantastic, why? because it seems if you throw more money at employees they just shut their mouths and accept anything, and yes that is true.
everyone is suddenly jumping up and down about EK and SQ profit share, they're doing that because those places are ALSO toxic to work for, so just throw money at the problem and people will smile.
ask yourself, if CX sent out a notice and said every single employee will get $500k bonus as a thank you, would everyone suddenly start loving CX and patting each other on the back? or would this forum still exist..
all companies are more or less the same, if you delve into office politics then its a downward slope. I honestly don't care what the CEO earns, didn't he earn something staggering like $8m? It really would make no difference to anyone if he earned $1m, if his salary was reduced to that and we have 20,000 employees, that's an extra $350 per employee, makes no difference at the end of the day... anyway I digress, don't let their pay get you down. If you think other companies are better, then by all means try them and see, at the rate CX is going you can always come back.

[AQIS Boigu]

I was pulled into a face-to-face survey about 8 years ago. Apparently the findings were so disturbing they refused to publish it.

The findings did get published (I think Fatana was the DFO) and they responded with a few fixes; most of the issues were put into the too hard basket straight away

[RAT Management]

The findings did get published (I think Fatana was the DFO) and they responded with a few fixes; most of the issues were put into the too hard basket straight away
Oh yeah. I remember the fix. It was illy coffee satchels. That fixed everything! Honestly as progress Wan chai said in another thread. The comments here are laughable. A few years ago you were in 4 years of contract compliance and training ban. But now with a forced sign or else, it's all evaporated! Total joke.

[KABOY]

Reflecting on what CX have done over the past 2 years, plus their own blatant executive gluttony, I commend any pilot who continues to justify why this is the best option they have.

I look at my self worth, the country I come from as well as my self respect in the face of adversity and I cannot compete with the CX pilots who continue to tolerate this.

I even appreciate the individuals who continue to promote the airline on social media when they really have no regard for staff, you too are cut from a special cloth.

The belief that things can only get better will not stand the test when CX have a workforce that have tolerated such abuse.

My moral compass needs recalibration, CX recruitment has done a remarkable job.

[magenta magnet]

So according to your logic since pilots would still hate the company anyway CX might as well not give them any money or even better make conditions even worse ?
Is that the logic behind the last threshold adjustment ?
I didn’t see that coming I confess but it makes perfect sense with this kind of thinking.

You know as well as I do it is not about work environment, culture, aircraft types or anything like that, it is only about money.
If I offered you $500,000 HKD per month to work as a baggage handler at the airport and you had to wear a Bud Lite t-shirt, you would take it in a heart beat <-- I would!
And on top of that you would love you job and tell people it's cool as you drive to work in your Lambo.

[HoldenCaufield]

literally every single airline in the world... if you want happiness then it seems either flight instructor at a tiny school or flying in Alaska, but then there is no money.
people may think that the sandbox airlines are fantastic, why? because it seems if you throw more money at employees they just shut their mouths and accept anything, and yes that is true.


Most of the things I dislike about CX isn't to do with the money, it's the culture. Whilst I agree that many other airlines have some of the same issues, I don't believe many are as toxic as here. I've interviewed with several other carriers in recent months and the lifestyle control and support the offer as standard is much, much better when thinking about a long term career with a family.

[Oasis]

For some people it's the money, for some its the lack of flexibility, or the culture.
For me it's the lack of flexibility, no part time, no reverse rostering or basing.

[Climbpowder]

Most of the things I dislike about CX isn't to do with the money, it's the culture. Whilst I agree that many other airlines have some of the same issues, I don't believe many are as toxic as here. I've interviewed with several other carriers in recent months and the lifestyle control and support the offer as standard is much, much better when thinking about a long-term career with a family.

And you still with CX?? Isn't that what CX offers you in the interview and change it later? Please name the airlines so we can do a proper comparison.

[Busbuoy]

You all remember the Haddon-Cave survey?

He criticised the usual CX issues (similar to what was listed above, ie.: absence management, split duties, fatigue, toxic work environment…)

Literally nothing came from it

How can you say that!? As a result of that review Cathay immediately changed the A Day travel rules which royally and unnecessarily scr@wed a lot of based pilots.

[Dragon_Delight]

will things be different with the new GMO getting onboard?

[TinFoilhat2]

How’s the hunt for pilots going? Will CX ultimately be forced to drastically improve COS18 and join the real world or are they just too stubborn?

I hear Airbus guys are getting 80 hours plus a month flying but 777 not so much. What about 747 pilots in the cargo department, good flying or still quiet?

I know a couple CX pilots have returned and they are saying that it looks like there is a concerted effort to improve things but a long way to go yet. Apparently a lot of toxic middle management have been removed or fired which if true is a good start I guess.

Who knows maybe they have hit rock bottom and realised they need to get their act together ASAP.

[Verbal Kint]

It’s strange returnees would say that, when the Boeing CP said at a recent Fleet Forum “if any of you have a decent job offer with another airline, take it as there will be no chance of this place getting any better”.

[Cavallier]

Quote,


“I know a couple CX pilots have returned and they are saying that it looks like there is a concerted effort to improve things but a long way to go yet”

My laughter bordered on the hysterical………………


The Cav

[Oasis]

Returnees were welcomed with open arms.

Except..
-back to the bottom of the priority list for rostering, which doesn't seem to work anyway..
-back to the bottom of the staff travel list
-and a training bond
-they call you a brushwinger

[7448]

will things be different with the new GMO getting onboard?

The former GMO was the only decent manager we had and I would listen to but that is an operational/technical position not much to do with all that is wrong at the moment.

An effort to improve things ? Your friends got the wrong address, they are at CXC.

I sympathize with the based pilots or the ones that were initially not extended past 55 but if you resigned it is fair you start from the bottom.

[Oasis]

The former GMO was the only decent manager we had and I would listen to but that is an operational/technical position not much to do with all that is wrong at the moment.

An effort to improve things ? Your friends got the wrong address, they are at CXC.

I sympathize with the based pilots or the ones that were initially not extended past 55 but if you resigned it is fair you start from the bottom.

if you’re a captain and you rejoin you will never get the roster you want, because the second officer that joined a day before you will still have higher seniority than you when he/she finally becomes a captain 10 years down the line.

the stance the company had during covid towards the hardship of pilots being separated from their families for months, sometimes a year forced people to resign. Unable to provide unpaid leave for no reason as an alternative even though nothing was flying. ‘Deal with it’ was the attitude.
zero compassion

[RAT Management]

The People Engagement Survey results are in. The result is bad. The answer??? according to head of people is another survey!

[OneBarWonder]

I was a senior FO at CX during the pandemic and I can only say that leaving the CX sh%t show was the best decision I ever made.
Had I stayed I would still be miserable and would’ve taken the 10% pay hit they inflicted on the freighter crew, as well as watching pilots junior to me upgrading on other fleets, further raising my blood pressure. Nothing ever improves.
I do miss the wonderful people I used to fly with, and even HKG sometimes but I get to visit regularly with my new outfit and actually look forward to going to work now. Imagine that? I have a proper union negotiated contract and the managers actually want to help and everyone at the company has been pleasant to deal with so far. Even the hotels and catering are nicer. On second year pay I’m already earning more than I did as an FO2 at CX on PoS18 pay and my cost of living has halved.
I really detest CX for the way they treated us pilots during the pandemic, destroying careers and inflicting unnecessary misery on us, and now they will reap what they sow.
Good riddance.

[LootedfromCPA]

The last survey had an ENPs score of -51.2 andddd the solution is to improve block hour pay but only after the summer rush. And maybe serve us with mainland chinese slaves with poor attitudes - I mean new flight attendants. These management folks still haven't learned anything it seems they are beyond delusional at this point. Lets aim for a -90 ENPs score for the next survey in August since it is beyond a joke at this point.:D

[Sam Ting Wong]

Flight Ops is purely cost driven.
100% about money, nothing else.

The survey is a box ticking exercise, nobody cares about the results.

[Progress Wanchai]

Toxic work environment at Cathay?
Hahaha. That’s very good.

Those 7 toxic symptoms listed at the start of the thread? That’s defined cx since the 1990’s, with the pilots continuously pushing back with Contract Compliance, Maximum Safety Strategy, Training Bans, Recruitment Bans, Strike motions, sick outs, golf days, scab lists etc.

What’s changed to end this toxic cycle? Not cx management. They’re the same as they’ve always been. It’s the pilots. They now harmoniously comply with every management directive without question or a hint of pushing back. It’s now the best work environment since the 1980’s.
Ably assisted by the HKAOA General Committee who no longer collect union dues which could be used to form a war chest, and have locked the union office and sacked all the staff reducing the ability of the members to organize. The HKAOA chairman is trying to fight back, hence the GC is removing him.

Throughout history when a country invades another country they systematically eliminate the leadership and strength of those that would oppose them leaving a weak, meek subservient workforce.

The strong have left, the weak remain. All is harmonious.