WIZZ at Madeira

[JanetFlight]

Hi all...could be this be considered just an optical illusion or it was indeed some "serious" pitch after a G/A on this 321..!?
At some point during the high pitch up the wing drops however i think its turbulence derivated ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxK9B_DzlgU

[DaveReidUK]

Google "photogrammetry".

[RARA9]

If it’s not a trick in the eyes it could be Windshear escape . Toga and full backstick would look like that also not retracting the gear until out of shear.
Very common manoeuvre at that place

[snl13]

If it’s not a trick in the eyes it could be Windshear escape . Toga and full backstick would look like that also not retracting the gear until out of shear.
Very common manoeuvre at that place

For windshear it's toga follow SRS unless no FD then you go to 17.5. Full backstick is for terrain escape because you want to use all your kinetic energy to gain potential energy (altitude) even if on the 'long' term it's not the most efficient since you will ,if needed, decrease the speed until Valphamax which is definitely not the best roc speed.

But yeah could still be a windshear escape.

[Asturias56]

Madeira has some serious wind issues..................

[brakedwell]

It used to be a lot worse when the runway was shorter, especially with the 757.

[1southernman]

For windshear it's toga follow SRS unless no FD then you go to 17.5. Full backstick is for terrain escape because you want to use all your kinetic energy to gain potential energy (altitude) even if on the 'long' term it's not the most efficient since you will ,if needed, decrease the speed until Valphamax which is definitely not the best roc speed.

But yeah could still be a windshear escape.
Delayed gear retract so prolly w/s escape...

[packapoo]

That's why I don't drink the stuff.

[Fly3]

I agree having flown the B757 into Funchal back in the 1980's.. Air Europe managed to smack one on so hard that it punched the nose gear up into the E&E bay. IIRC Boeing came over and carried out a major repair.

[brakedwell]

I agree having flown the B757 into Funchal back in the 1980's.. Air Europe managed to smack one on so hard that it punched the nose gear up into the E&E bay. IIRC Boeing came over and carried out a major repair.

I remember that one, and it took about six months to fix.

[Biggles64]

Apparently, allegedly, the male purser/cabin manager (sat over the E&E bay) entered the flight deck after shutdown to declare “well, I’ve had many things pushed up bottom, but never an aircraft undercarriage “

[Wycombe]

I happened to be watching this live - windshear was being reported by ATC on landing clearance

[Asturias56]

IIRC Madeira is the only airport that TAP require specific training for - and it's their country

perched on a steep hill side, right above the sea - what could go wrong???

[enzino]

IIRC Madeira is the only airport that TAP require specific training for - and it's their country

perched on a steep hill side, right above the sea - what could go wrong???
So do Wizz Air and all the other airlines flying into Madeira. It's mandated by the Portuguese Authority.

[Asturias56]

wise folk!

[MENELAUS]

I agree having flown the B757 into Funchal back in the 1980's.. Air Europe managed to smack one on so hard that it punched the nose gear up into the E&E bay. IIRC Boeing came over and carried out a major repair.

It was certainly a captains’ only sector ( not that we necessarily did a better job of it ) and required line check and sim check prior to operating there.
Even TAP ( the apparent experts ) have written off a few airframes in there over the years.


I wandered over to chat to the Boeing field repair guys ( all vets/ crew cuts/ lots of pens with those interesting cardboard pocket protectors) not long after the event. They opened the DV widows, jacked up the aircraft with a wooden beam on pit props through the window surround, drifted down the nose gear with mahoosive hammers and welded the gear down and the now distorted DV windows shut.
Not long after my operator banned the 757 from Funchal. Can’t say any of us were less than over joyed.

[Dave Gittins]

Why ban the 757 ? Couldn't it have happened with anything ?

[brakedwell]

I was with Air Europe and we operated our 757's into Funchal for all of my ten years on the aircraft. Our first officers were allowed to carry out take off's there, although I was not happy about that.

[MENELAUS]

Yes it could, and has, happened to other types. I didn’t think to question the then DFO as to the rationale behind it. If memory serves it predates the extension and performance was marginal on the 757 anyway. And I suppose from a commercial viewpoint it was better to have the 737 AOG than a 75, which was the mainstay of our medium haul operation. I wasn’t ex AE obviously

[B Fraser]

Madeira has some serious wind issues..................

Port makes me fart as well.

:O

[goeasy]

Port makes me fart as well.

:O

well done!

[Jo90]

https://www.madeiraislanddirect.com/blog/2023/05/airport-wind-limit-to-be-reviewed/
Crosswind limit under review. Good idea??

[Arfur Dent]

In Air Europe days we stopped to refuel at Porto Santo for the return to Gatwick. I guess with a longer runway that's not required any more?

[Liffy 1M]

Even TAP ( the apparent experts ) have written off a few airframes in there over the years.

Actually, only one, the terrible 727 accident of November 1977. They did some damage to a 737-200 as well, though. Note that two other fatal accidents occurred when the aircraft (a Caravelle in both cases) struck the sea on approach.

Funchal Accidents (https://aviation-safety.net/database/airport/airport.php?id=FNC)

[brakedwell]

In Air Europe days we stopped to refuel at Porto Santo for the return to Gatwick. I guess with a longer runway that's not required any more?

We didn't have to stop at Porto Santo on the B757, only thr 737..

[Potatos_69]

For windshear it's toga follow SRS unless no FD then you go to 17.5. Full backstick is for terrain escape because you want to use all your kinetic energy to gain potential energy (altitude) even if on the 'long' term it's not the most efficient since you will ,if needed, decrease the speed until Valphamax which is definitely not the best roc speed.

But yeah could still be a windshear escape.

if required you can pull to full up command on the side stick in wind shear escape manoeuvres as well.

[Gordomac]

Aaaaaah the AE memories. Went in there with the 73. Very marginal and the company was evaluating 757 ops. Route & Airfield bod reckoned it wasn't safe and refused to sign off.He had the underslung gear to resign the post. Replacee signed the place off and in went the 75's.

I had just transferred to 75, yet to be checked out for Funchal and not looking forward to it when one of our much admired aces pranged.
.
Bilbao in the T1E was bad enough. Started going grey at age 27, Funchal saw me totally white at 35. White enough to apply to CX !....ooooops, another story........

[Bengerman]

Flew in there in 1989 as FE on B727, frightened the crap out of me!

[Gordomac]

A Base turn that required both pilots seeing and pointing towards a bannana shed before Finals made Kai Tak a walk in the park !

The thread is about wizz. Wish our old GA was as easy as "Toga, stick FULLY back". But us trend setters were magnificent men in real flying machines !

[brakedwell]

A Base turn that required both pilots seeing and pointing towards a bannana shed before Finals made Kai Tak a walk in the park !

The thread is about wizz. Wish our old GA was as easy as "Toga, stick FULLY back". But us trend setters were magnificent men in real flying machines !


And often thankful it was over Gordon!

[brakedwell]

I was on the AE 757's from the very start and I never heard that one quoted by Biggles64. ;

[FlightDetent]

But yeah could still be a windshear escape.Additional technical notes: (mostly) FCOM DSC-22_30-40-90-20

During a G/A the FD limits for SRS vertical mode are 18° or 22,5°in case of a wind shear alert. The target speed for which the airplane will pitch for becoming:
- no lower than Vapp (net of any GS-mini adjustments)
- no higher than Vls+25 kt
+ commonly in-between, set to the speed value present at the moment of TO/GA engagement

Pure speculation: If the crew hit a small rotor with a momentary tailwind burst (or loss of headwind) resulting in
- a drop of IAS close to the Vapp (net) value or even below
- trigger of reactive wind-shear alert
+ the FD command would go for quite a low-speed target up to 22,5 deg NU, which the NEO engines at TOGA thrust could deliver efficiently. With an airshow-like climb.

I still think the overpitch is some sort of camera effect, it looks unusual only for a half second before it is clear the airplane is flying over the viewpoint.

[Biggles64]

Told to me by an AE B737 pilot (sadly no longer with us) who had landed earlier and was parked alongside said B757. He took a wander over to have a look at this slightly odd looking company 757, and had the quote from the flight deck crew. Apparently!

[Gordomac]

Biggles; Huge holes in your submission right there.Bort, c'mon, quite funny if not involved and quite funny, for some, in typical aviation banter and humour.

After the GF A320 crash, crew-room banter in the Madras Crew room upset my F/O ( I was not there) who happened to be trialing for the Bahrain Olympic Weight Liftimg team. It didn't end well for the other Middle East Carrier's, Steward, Joker.

[vladut.grecu]

I can not even imagine what would have happened with a boat passing near by under IFR....