Want a job?

[TBM-Legend]

some company called AV8 Partners is advertising these positions. Seems like low time for the 737

Captain B737

Sydney Australia

Required:

• ICAO ATPL (preferable Aus CASA or NZ

CAA)

B737 NG Type Rating

Class One Medical

3,000 hours total time


First Officer B737

Sydney Australia

Required:

ICAO CPL (preferable Aus CASA or NZ

CAA)

B737 NG Type Rating

Class One Medical

1,000 hours total time

Right to live and work in Australia

• 1,000 hours P1 on jet aircraft with a max take-off mass over 40,000kgs



Right to live and work in Australia

[Jimsaviation]

How is 1000 PIC on jet >40t not enough. Flying a freighter on the east coast isn’t exactly rocket science.

[Wizofoz]

Low by Aussie standards, but there have been 3000hr jet Captains in Europe for decades- and they seem to get by!
It's a lot more important to drill down on WHAT those 3000hr were. By the ad they could be 2800 Barron hours and a bare type rating.

Where was the ad?

[TBL Warrior]

How is 1000 PIC on jet >40t not enough. Flying a freighter on the east coast isn’t exactly rocket science.

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Having operated throughout five continents, Australia is by far one of the easiest. No significant terrain, Proficient ATC, reliable Nav-Aids, and accurate WX reports. One has to wonder how Aussies’ claim to be such superior aviators.

Wizz give 320 commands to kids with 3,500 TT and their network is much more demanding than anything close to Australia.

Typical inferiority complex, in over complicating a simple thing to justify one’s superiority.

[Stationair8]

No mention of Cessna 400 series time requirement or previous wet season experience!

[rcoight]

No mention of Cessna 400 series time requirement or previous wet season experience!

Well let’s be honest. Sitting in a 737 going from ILS to ILS probably requires less skill.

[Capt Fathom]

No mention of Cessna 400 series time requirement or previous wet season experience!

If they do, I’m in with a chance then! :E

[The Banjo]

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Having operated throughout five continents, Australia is by far one of the easiest. No significant terrain, Proficient ATC, reliable Nav-Aids, and accurate WX reports. One has to wonder how Aussies’ claim to be such superior aviators.

Wizz give 320 commands to kids with 3,500 TT and their network is much more demanding than anything close to Australia.

Typical inferiority complex, in over complicating a simple thing to justify one’s superiority.

Proficient ATC and accurate weather reports are no longer the norm since covid. KPI seeking managers in the respective organisations gutted the experience levels during covid with ill thought out redundancies which has turned the aviation landscape into a shxtshow.

[compressor stall]

Proficient ATC and accurate weather reports are no longer the norm since covid. KPI seeking managers in the respective organisations gutted the experience levels during covid with ill thought out redundancies which has turned the aviation landscape into a shxtshow.
maybe but it’s all relative.
Oz ATC still don’t clear you to 2000’ instead of 12000’ radar terrain as happened to me not that long ago. Took two queries to fix it.
I’ve only flown to 40 countries and agree with above - Aus is comparatively benign.

[Capt Fathom]

Oz ATC still don’t clear you to 2000’ instead of 12000’ radar terrain as happened to me not that long ago. Took two queries to fix it.


Please explain!

[compressor stall]

On a STAR starting at 18ish. Ends at 2000’. Huge CB half way along. Request 30 deg right that does take us towards rather high terrain (10k+). Get cleared right of route (no heading or distance limit).
I presume old mate forgets we’re on heading and clears us to 2000’. Query one in case we both misheard, “affirm 2000”. “Confirm cleared level due terrain?” Without missing a beat “Descend 12000 report when clear of weather and can track direct to ILS”

[421dog]

Well let’s be honest. Sitting in a 737 going from ILS to ILS probably requires less skill.

Having flown 402s full of cancelled checks and FedEx overload without a functional autopilot and with +- deice in the winter across northern Minnesota/Wisconsin in the middle of the night, I am inclined to agree with you….

[Taggert]

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Having operated throughout five continents, Australia is by far one of the easiest. No significant terrain, Proficient ATC, reliable Nav-Aids, and accurate WX reports. One has to wonder how Aussies’ claim to be such superior aviators.

Wizz give 320 commands to kids with 3,500 TT and their network is much more demanding than anything close to Australia.

Typical inferiority complex, in over complicating a simple thing to justify one’s superiority.


"accurate weather reports" 🤣🤣🤣
You havnt flown in Aus for a while obviously!

[maggot]

"accurate weather reports" 🤣🤣🤣
You havnt flown in Aus for a while obviously!

TIBA much? Good ATC system? Half baked ctafs

Facilities? Not a cat3 every 50nm with thousands of cancellations with the winter weather

neither require a space shuttle Endo however

[Window heat]

I tend to agree with this sentiment. Having operated throughout five continents, Australia is by far one of the easiest. No significant terrain, Proficient ATC, reliable Nav-Aids, and accurate WX reports. One has to wonder how Aussies’ claim to be such superior aviators.

Wizz give 320 commands to kids with 3,500 TT and their network is much more demanding than anything close to Australia.

Typical inferiority complex, in over complicating a simple thing to justify one’s superiority.

I have not met an Australian pilot in a long time who thinks we’re superior. I’m not sure what you’re on about there. Having trained pilots for a dozen airlines from 4 continents, I got a good look at the types of people who learn to fly from different countries. That was certainly an eye opener and led me to never flying on certain carriers.

[tossbag]

I have not met an Australian pilot in a long time who thinks we’re superior.

​​​​​​​You don't get out much do you?

[Angle of Attack]

Proficient ATC….are you serious? I’m not going to bag the actual controllers but Ujung Control tends to be more reliable than Airservices ATM.

[redsnail]

Admittedly, I haven't flown in Asia, South America, the Pacific nor southern Africa, but from memory, Australian ATC is generally significantly better than most other places that I've flown in. Rate of delivery, use of standard phraseology and accuracy are generally better.
Naples on a stormy afternoon or any of the Greek island ATC on a Summer's day = carnage. Anywhere south of Florida to the Caribbean on January 2nd is an absolute nightmare.

[compressor stall]

You don't get out much do you?
I do and would say that that generation of ozatranaughts is retiring or retired.

[421dog]

Bloody heck.
(Nearly) Every trip I fly in the upper Midwest from September to May is hardball IFR. Most of them are pretty much in the clag from takeoff to landing (with ice, of course) as they are less than 300 NM and it makes no sense to climb to the flight levels in a turbo piston twin. The rest of the year we have thunderstorms to avoid.
People need to learn to fly.

[Mach E Avelli]

some company called AV8 Partners is advertising these positions. Seems like low time for the 737

Captain B737

Sydney Australia

Required:

• ICAO ATPL (preferable Aus CASA or NZ

CAA)

B737 NG Type Rating

Class One Medical

3,000 hours total time


First Officer B737

Sydney Australia

Required:

ICAO CPL (preferable Aus CASA or NZ

CAA)

B737 NG Type Rating

Class One Medical

1,000 hours total time

Right to live and work in Australia

• 1,000 hours P1 on jet aircraft with a max take-off mass over 40,000kgs



Right to live and work in Australia
To have acquired 1000 hours PIC on medium jets within 3000 hours total, a pilot would be either ex military or possibly ex one of the European cadet schemes.
Either way, the quality of training received and experience gained would be more than enough to cope with our benign operating environment.
It’s not the hours you put in; it’s what you put in to those hours.

[TBL Warrior]

Bloody heck.
(Nearly) Every trip I fly in the upper Midwest from September to May is hardball IFR. Most of them are pretty much in the clag from takeoff to landing (with ice, of course) as they are less than 300 NM and it makes no sense to climb to the flight levels in a turbo piston twin. The rest of the year we have thunderstorms to avoid.
People need to learn to fly.

If flying IMC and avoiding thunderstorms in icing conditions are “hardball” I suggest taking up another profession.

[Mach E Avelli]

If flying IMC and avoiding thunderstorms in icing conditions are “hardball” I suggest taking up another profession.
I'm with 421dog on this.
Punting a 40+ year old 400 series Cessna in real ice (the type that starts before you even get airborne), poor visibilty and dodging storms with old tech radar (if any), basic autopilot (if it works at all), steam gauges (mostly working), marginal engine-out performance and no co-pilot to help out, is about as hardball as it gets.
Operators are not always keen to retrofit these old clunkers with the latest and greatest IFR gear, and even if they do, it's a bit like putting lipstick on a pig - the airframe, systems and performance are still a pig.
Kudos to 421dog.

[megan]

You don't get out much do youSome Oz employers don't let you get out, worked in one such mushroom club, private operator purchased a fleet of a new type, C & T was sent overseas to gain rating and he suggested stopping off on his way to speak to an operator of said type to gain some gouge, was told he was not to make contact with them under any circumstance. We saw it as the overseas corporate aviation advisor protecting his position. Perhaps I'm viewing it wrong, could it be we were seen to be such aces that we didn't need any education? ;)

[TBL Warrior]

I'm with 421dog on this.
Punting a 40+ year old 400 series Cessna in real ice (the type that starts before you even get airborne), poor visibilty and dodging storms with old tech radar (if any), basic autopilot (if it works at all), steam gauges (mostly working)Fail to see how this is any different to any other GA job.

marginal engine-out performance and you think a fully loaded 777 single engine out of Mexico City, Addis, or Kabul is any different? Again, fail to see your point.


Operators are not always keen to retrofit these old clunkers with the latest and greatest IFR gear, and even if they do, it's a bit like putting lipstick on a pig - the airframe, systems and performance are still a pig. You obviously have never seen the inside of North Coast’s, at the time, P2-KAA!

[josephfeatherweight]

Top-notch dick swinging from all angles on display in this thread. Keep it up! :yuk:

[compressor stall]

and you think a fully loaded 777 single engine out of Mexico City, Addis, or Kabul is any different? Again, fail to see your point.

Odd example to use in your attempt to elucidate. A fully loaded 777 out of those places by law must meet the legal second segment climb gradients etc in case of EO.

A 421 has no such luxury of published charted climb gradients requirements. FAR 23, not 25.

[tossbag]

Top-notch dick swinging from all angles on display in this thread. Keep it up! https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/pukey.gif

Problem? Or have you just worked out the personality type of the majority of pilots?

[Window heat]

You don't get out much do you?
​​​​​​​aaaah, yep, been flying full time for about 35 years.

[Window heat]

I do and would say that that generation of ozatranaughts is retiring or retired.
Quite accurate. The QF1 Bangkok prang was the best thing that ever happened to Australian aviation. The clown who did it was the epitome of the old chest thumping ****** Australian pilot. They have largely gone from the airline industry.

I fly with the odd ace of the base (self proclaimed) but the absolute majority are refreshingly self effacing people.

As for the argument over where is harder to fly, it all depends on what you see as the biggest threat. I’d say the IOSA audit threat data would be the authority on the issue. We all have our opinions, based on personal perception. No country I fly in is much harder than others, they all have their threats that we manage as professionals.

[TBL Warrior]

Odd example to use in your attempt to elucidate. A fully loaded 777 out of those places by law must meet the legal second segment climb gradients etc in case of EO.

Yes, and as such only requires to clear any and all objects by 15ft (wet runway). Next.

[Mach E Avelli]

Odd example to use in your attempt to elucidate. A fully loaded 777 out of those places by law must meet the legal second segment climb gradients etc in case of EO.

A 421 has no such luxury of published charted climb gradients requirements. FAR 23, not 25.
Neither does the average C421 pilot have the luxury of regular simulator practice, or designed escape procedures, while having to live with the much higher probability of a real engine failure and inefficient anti ice systems.
I have plenty of older generation medium jet time, as well as enough single pilot IFR GA time, and I know which is the easier and safer, regardless of airport elevation or terrain.
I also found it sometimes easier to train good GA pilots up from props onto old generation jets than to downtrain certain B777 & A330 pilots who had become a bit too automation dependent.
Not wishing to swing my aging dick here, but someone attacked 421 dog for merely stating how it is in his part of the world (not in Australia, where we don’t get much tricky weather) - so I supported his perfectly valid point of view.

[tossbag]

aaaah, yep, been flying full time for about 35 years.

aaaaah, doesn't mean you get out much.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Seriously, who cares?
I have the easiest job flying to mostly easy places on great equipment and get paid massively well to do it. There! Guess I'm not a good pilot. Boo hoo. :ugh:

[Window heat]

aaaaah, doesn't mean you get out much.
I have no idea what you mean.

[tossbag]

Get out much doesn't mean flying hours in your logbook, it means socialising in many and varied situations.

[compressor stall]

Yes, and as such only requires to clear any and all objects by 15ft (wet runway). Next.
Remind me again by how much does the 402 /421 etc have to clear obstacles by?

[TBL Warrior]

Remind me again by how much does the 402 /421 etc have to clear obstacles by?

Operating below your AFM RTOW for the ambient conditions will guarantee it by virtue, as you need not worry about second and third segments. Hence, no requirement in hardball C400 series ops. Furthermore, considering that Australian airports are at most 3,000ft AMSL, other than being grossly overloaded, your argument is invalid. What next - engine out performance in a 207? Thus, I stand by my opinion expressed previously.

[Mach E Avelli]

Operating below your AFM RTOW for the ambient conditions will guarantee it by virtue, as you need not worry about second and third segments. Hence, no requirement in hardball C400 series ops. Furthermore, considering that Australian airports are at most 3,000ft AMSL, other than being grossly overloaded, your argument is invalid. What next - engine out performance in a 207? Thus, I stand by my opinion expressed previously.
Second and third segments in relation to “hardball C400 series ops” Please explain? Do you mean that there aren’t any, ‘cos that is indeed so and what makes light twins far more hazardous - even at many sea level airports - than jets on wet runways at places like Cuzco (Google earth it, kiddies).
Performance “guarantee by virtue” in relation to C400 series? I would be interested in just what that performance is. My gut tells me that in the conditions 421dog originally described it wouldn’t go anywhere near achieving your 15 ft NET wet runway obstacle clearance. (for the benefit of our newbies, NET clearances are less than what the aeroplane should achieve in the hands of a skilled pilot - they take test results and degrade to account for old airframes and even older, doddery pilots).
Submitted with apologies for thread drift and willy waving

[john_tullamarine]

Methinks a few of our colleagues need to have a refresher read up on performance.

First, nothing is guaranteed, as such. If the actual conditions on the day replicate the certification presumptions, and you fly it like the AFM suggests, then you should get something like the certification performance. But things can get considerably worse than what was presumed at certification and the results can get a bit nastier.

Heavies are not too bad as a lot of work goes into getting certification numbers and the operational procedures are a lot better for pilot longevity.

Lighties ... you have to be joking. The main reason we don't have smoking holes all over the place is that we don't have many serious incidents at low level and, in the main, terrain tends to be reasonably benign. Anyone who thinks that lightie certification performance is in the same paddock as heavies is a little off the mark, I fear.

The only requirement of great note is "don't crash". You have a far better prospect of achieving this in heavy aircraft operations than in light ....

For those who don't know Mach E Avelli's background, he has a lot of runs on the board in a lot of different aircraft and his observations are worth listening to.

[Wizofoz]

Has this set some kind of record for thread-drift?

[compressor stall]

Has this set some kind of record for thread-drift?
It’s a good one, that’s for sure.
But if it educates just one pilot, it’s well worth it.

And we’ve only just scratched the surface of the lighties’ performance limitations the manuals do their best to gloss over.

[Mach E Avelli]

Thread drift perhaps, but kind of logical. It started by questioning whether the advertised job experience level was low to be poling a jet around in Australia's rarefied atmosphere. Then the discussion morphed into the relative merits of jet time versus "hardball" GA time. Someone suggested that if a pilot found single pilot IFR winter operations in North America "hardball" they were in the wrong profession.
That same person attempted to compare operating the B777 with a C421 to indicate that B777 pilots faced similarly marginal performance situations. No doubt that in some places big jets do operate with small margins for error, but its a tenuous argument.
When it comes to selecting pilots, a solid GA background can be every bit as useful as military or airline time. Put a good GA pilot in the right hand seat of a jet, give them proper training, and within 500 hours you'd think they had been flying the thing for years.
For the sake of young people with aviation dreams today, I only hope that one day soon Ausralian employers will accept that reality.

[doolay]

As a non-Australian, every now and then I drop by the Pprune Australian Forums to witness the Aussie Willy-waving comedy show that invariably appears on a lot of threads.
I will not leave disappointed with this visit.🤣🤪👍

[stillcallozhome]

As a non-Australian, every now and then I drop by the Pprune Australian Forums to witness the Aussie Willy-waving comedy show that invariably appears on a lot of threads.
I will not leave disappointed with this visit.🤣🤪👍

Austranauts for a reason. When the flying environment is that benign, you can only measure your member by knowing regulations that are so archaic and over the top.

[Mach E Avelli]

Austranauts for a reason. When the flying environment is that benign, you can only measure your member by knowing regulations that are so archaic and over the top.
Mods, in just three posts we have progressed from mild thread drift to penis envy to a classic non sequitur.
Unless the next post pulls it back onto subject, I suggest lock it. Pilots who lack the wit to differentiate robust debate from dick swinging do Pprune and its professional (and genuine newbie) contributors a disservice. As for those prone to the non sequitur, this is an indication of social dysfunction or ADHD. Medication is available.
If they can't offer anything intelligent they should p!ss off back to their inane TwitFaceTok forums or seek help.
To be associated in any way with these intellectual misfits - as Effie would say "how embarrassment".

[tossbag]

As a non-Australian, every now and then I drop by the PPRuNe Australian Forums to witness the Aussie Willy-waving comedy show that invariably appears on a lot of threads.
I will not leave disappointed with this visit.🤣🤪👍

As an ozmate, it's even funnier listening to your overseas mates recount their Australian stories like 'They would have beat us to the moon but they're still briefing the approach'

[tossbag]

Mach E, why the angst? This forum is far from professional and is not far off TwitFaceTok. Why do we have to run to the mods to close, c'mon man.

[Twomonthsoff]

Lovely response

[Mach E Avelli]

As an ozmate, it's even funnier listening to your overseas mates recount their Australian stories like 'They would have beat us to the moon but they're still briefing the approach'
At least that is funny and pertinent to the way we operate in this sunny clime.
For non professional pottymouths with penis fixation and no agenda beyond derailing discussion PPrune has a Jetblast forum.

[tail wheel]

If my guess is correct - Nothing like a bored Australian working in Asia to add nothing of merit to a thread? :hmm:

[tossbag]

If my guess is correct - Nothing like a bored Australian working in Asia to add nothing of merit to a thread? https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/yeees.gif

If it's me you're talking about, (bored Australian.........), not quite correct. The adding nothing of merit bit, 100% correct. I often state that I add very little to a thread. I could, if I wanted to, but the bonafides of most on here are dubious, at best. How can you have a serious conversation when you can't trust those bonafides. So I take the piss most of the time. But occasionally, just occasionally, I'm pretty smack on.

[Mach E Avelli]

I add very little to a thread. I could, if I wanted to,.

Ahh...bugger it - now that this thread is completely off the rails, why not add to the fun.
From ‘Its hard to be humble’ by Mac Davis:
"Well I could have lotsa friends if I wanted
But then I wouldn't stand out from the crowd
Some folks say that I'm egotistical
Hell, I don't even know what that means
I guess it has something to do with the way
That I fill out my skin tight blue jeans"

[Stationair8]

Now would that be the skin tight blue jeans, with a pair of footy sox tucked into your jocks as well?

[43Inches]

I do like the comparison of Cessna 400 series to 777, it is so accurate. I mean the Cessna 421 for instance has had 24 accidents following engine failure, 12 involving fatalities. Now how many 777 have been lost due to a single engine failure, I reckon quite a few failures have happened including some on take-off roll, some with spectacular sparks and flames. But I'm pretty sure they all climbed away quite easily and returned to land after a few checks. As said before there seams to be a disconnect in education if you think the certification of these two aircraft is mildly related. Also the 15/35/50 ft clearance requirements are before you adjust for margins, but I'm sure you know that. A C421 wouldn't even have the performance on one engine to apply a margin. I wonder how many C400 (or any other piston twin) pilots would be told 'sit on their hands' following an engine failure after take-off to assess fully what is happening.

[Mach E Avelli]

I do like the comparison of Cessna 400 series to 777, it is so accurate. I mean the Cessna 421 for instance has had 24 accidents following engine failure, 12 involving fatalities. Now how many 777 have been lost due to a single engine failure, I reckon quite a few failures have happened including some on take-off roll, some with spectacular sparks and flames. But I'm pretty sure they all climbed away quite easily and returned to land after a few checks. As said before there seams to be a disconnect in education if you think the certification of these two aircraft is mildly related. Also the 15/35/50 ft clearance requirements are before you adjust for margins, but I'm sure you know that. A C421 wouldn't even have the performance on one engine to apply a margin. I wonder how many C400 (or any other piston twin) pilots would be told 'sit on their hands' following an engine failure after take-off to assess fully what is happening.
The ‘sit on your hands’ ethos was being taught in jet transport operations as far back as the 1970’s.
My first experience in real simulators was the BAC 1-11. After the DC 3 it was quite a culture shock.
When we got to the engine failure session, the crusty old Pommy TRE advised me that the safest way to deal with engine failure was to get the gear up and immediately engage the autopilot, sit on hands, have a good look around and then very SLOWLY do the fire or failure drill. Quite different to how we had been brought up on pistons to get the crook engine feathered Right. Bloody. Now.
With advances in automation, I suspect the B777 systems take care of things even better than the old BAC 1-11 did.
I never got operational on the 1-11 due to the airline deferring delivery of one airframe. Compensation prize was left seat HS 748. Another easy to fly machine, with auto feather, nice control harmony and decent ergonomics that allowed one to sit on hands.
Returning to the original question; with our blue skies and sun constantly beating down on our heads, Australian operators may finally be realising all those moon landings are not really necessary.

[megan]

No sitting on hands with the UA1175 777 engine failure, roll control was such that the Captain very briefly considered completing the 360° roll to get back to level flight, unable to maintain altitude he just made it into Honolulu, a ditching would have been necessary had the failure occurred earlier, perhaps a few moon landings may not be a bad idea. ;)

[Mach E Avelli]

No sitting on hands with the UA1175 777 engine failure, roll control was such that the Captain very briefly considered completing the 360° roll to get back to level flight, unable to maintain altitude he just made it into Honolulu, a ditching would have been necessary had the failure occurred earlier, perhaps a few moon landings may not be a bad idea. ;)
Point taken. If it can go wrong, it will.
10 hours in a Pitts as part of the CPL syllabus would be a worthwhile addition, even if it means cutting out some of the cross country or other easy stuff.
The Captain's prior experience in aeros went a long way to saving what would have been unrecoverable for some pilots.
Upset recovery now features large in new simulator programs, but of course doesn't replicate actually hanging upside down like a fruitbat.

[43Inches]

The 'Sit on your hands' advice is not in regard to flying the aircraft, its about not over-reacting to indications and jumping to conclusions. Obviously if the AP is handling it, no issue, if not the PF will have their hands full, but last thing you want is the PM flinging switches, knobs and levers before they've assessed what is actually happening. As JT said earlier there are many scenarios that could occur outside of certification standards and you deal with them as they happen, but a bog standard engine failure with no severe damage is going to be almost routine for a jet crew. The other stuff should be rare if the aircraft is well maintained and so on.