View Full Version : IorwhaFR x VFR separation in class C airspace
WOWair320
9th Apr 2023, 07:11
Hi, i have witnessed -(especially here in scandinavia) that ATC does not provide separation IFR x VFR in CTR class C (IFR arrival and VFR arrival as no2). They only give traffic info to VFR pilot about the IFR and instruct him to follow #1.
Can they use some kind of visual separation or? (cant find anything like that in Doc4444).
Thank you
Yes, aerodrome controllers may apply visual separation between aircraft operating in the vicinity of the airport. In my country those procedures are defined in the ANSP's general and aerodrome specific manuals so I don't think there's any solid reference in 4444, I'm only a radar controller though so I'll defer to someone else who might know better where it's regulated.
topdrop
11th Apr 2023, 02:19
An instruction to sight and follow another aircraft is one form of visual separation. Do they give the instruction to B to follow A without B having first advised that they have A in sight?
WOWair320
12th Apr 2023, 06:51
They do. Lets asy "A" is an IFR arrival on 4NM final and "B" is VFR in downwind position. They give to B info about traffic. If B confirm they have the traffic in sight (A has to be informed too?) and they can follow A, I got it -its the reduced sep near by the AD", but what if the B says they dont have A insight...in radar enviroment, would you still require at least those 3NM? That would prob lead to loss of sep or at least GoAround for A?! Thanks!!!
Equivocal
12th Apr 2023, 09:08
PANS-ATM chapter 6 should cover what you are asking about.
Your description of the separation in class C airspace is puzzling.VFR flights should be separated from IFR flights but telling no. 2/VFR to follow no. 1/IFR is an example of reduced separation in the vicinity of an aerodrome provided that no.2 has no.1 in sight (as alluded to by topdrop). On the other hand, the aerodrome controller may have had both in sight (another application of reduced separation in the vicinity of the aerodrome) but told no. 2 to follow no. 1 as a means of managing the flow of traffic. Note that there are other conditions required to be met when using reduced separation in the vicinity of an aerodrome that I have not mentioned - mainly for brevity, but also because I'm not sure I remember all the details - which would also have to be satisfied.