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Kennytheking
2nd Apr 2023, 06:43
Greetings...

I have an unusual problem that I need some advice on.

I hold an ICAO ATPL and am working on a UK ALTP - so far I have completed the theoretical exams and should have the class 1 medical wound up in the next couple of weeks. In order to "convert" my licence, the CAA has given me training exempt status which is basically credit for my previous experience and type rating. Accordingly, I can simply present myself for a skills test without the involvement of an ATO in the UK. I understand that this LST should be on the aircraft type that I am currently rated on which is the A380. According to the CAA website, the LST should be completed on a UK CAA approved FFS and that is where the fight begins.
I been been through as much documentation I can find and despite their comment on their website, it is not substantiated by the legislation. I cannot find any reference that requires the FFS to be UK CAA approved. Furthermore, the LST Examiners Report actualy asks for details of the FFS approval and which state approved it. Now I thought this might just be an oversight from before Brexit but the form is dated in 2021 which suggest that it has been revised in accordance with the new status quo. Does this mean that the UK CAA is open to the LST being completed on an EASA approved sim?

Alternatively if the rules require a UK CAA approved device, would one be able to get an exemption from that requirement, given the lack of resources in the UK(there are only 2 UK approved A380 sims in the world and BA have already told me to PFO.

Any advice appreciated.

k

deltahotel
3rd Apr 2023, 10:53
Morning.

My feeling is that the 2199 (report form) just hasn't been changed from when it was in use during the Brexit transition period and that you would need both a UK TRE and a UK registered sim (the 1158 which has the LST content hasn't changed for ages). I may be wrong about all of this but ultimately I think you are going to have to ask the CAA. Do you have a UK TRE lined up? If so then maybe they could contact CAA directly on [email protected] to get an answer to this, inc which non UK sim you plan to use? As they deal with a relatively small group, they are quite quick to respond to queries. If you are hoping to use a non UK TRE they could try the same and see where it goes.

I think the other UK registered sim is at Airbus Toulouse? Perhaps contact them to see if it's possible to get a slot and if required a TRE there - if so then it's logistics and money to solve the problem, if not then it might help your case to use a different sim if there is no availability.

Hope this makes sense, hope it helps.

Good luck.

Kennytheking
3rd Apr 2023, 20:12
Hi deltahotel,

Thank you for your considered response. I like the idea of getting hold of a UK TRE for the test and letting him contact the CAA - I had sidelined the TRE requirement for now since I felt it would be easier(money & logistics as you say), than finding a sim. You are correct that the other sim is in France. I have written to Airbus to enquire but other than initial clarifications, they have not properly responded yet.

Investigation coninues....

36050100
3rd Apr 2023, 22:53
Is there a specific need to pass an LST on a 'type"?

If, for example, you held an SEP rating on your current ICAO ATPL, would an LST in a UK registered SEP with a UK Examiner be sufficient for a UK ATPL to be issued, albeit with only the SEP rating attached. Adding further types and ratings could then be done through whichever airline you end up with.

Kennytheking
4th Apr 2023, 05:25
Is there a specific need to pass an LST on a 'type"?

If, for example, you held an SEP rating on your current ICAO ATPL, would an LST in a UK registered SEP with a UK Examiner be sufficient for a UK ATPL to be issued, albeit with only the SEP rating attached. Adding further types and ratings could then be done through whichever airline you end up with.

The short answer(I believe) is yes and no.....

As part of my "training exempt status", I have to do the LST on a rating that exists on my current ICAO license and the A380 is the only rating I have.

An option would be to ditch the training exemption and go though an ATO - this could well involve doing training on a SEP which I imagine I would need a fair bit of because I haven't flown one for the last 20 years. I'm not sure whether to be excited or terrified at this prospect...

Another option would be a partial CCQ onto a A320 or A350 - up until the LST part(as you mentioned, I don't need the actual rating). As you can see the alternatives are far more complex and expensive than a simple 2 hour sim ride, but I may eventually have to head down one of these routes.

do it
4th Apr 2023, 06:55
I’ve currently got an ICAO ATPL with an A320 endorsement and am looking at getting my
EASA license. Can I ask how you went about getting your EASA exams done? Cheers

rudestuff
4th Apr 2023, 09:09
Iíve currently got an ICAO ATPL with an A320 endorsement and am looking at getting my
EASA license. Can I ask how you went about getting your EASA exams done? Cheers
With an ICAO ATPL you can self certify. Just book the exams..

36050100
4th Apr 2023, 09:38
]

An option would be to ditch the training exemption and go though an ATO - this could well involve doing training on a SEP which I imagine I would need a fair bit of because I haven't flown one for the last 20 years. I'm not sure whether to be excited or terrified at this prospect...



3-4 hours of SEP training and test to put an SEP on your existing licence, then another SEP LST in the UK sounds like it could still nevertheless be cheaper and easier to arrange than an LST with a UK Examiner on an A380 sim...

awair
4th Apr 2023, 09:47
3-4 hours of SEP training and test to put an SEP on your existing licence, then another SEP LST in the UK sounds like it could still nevertheless be cheaper and easier to arrange than an LST with a UK Examiner on an A380 sim...

Except that there would then be no Instrument Rating on the new license.

The A380 route may be more painful, but is definitely the smarter option.

Kennytheking
4th Apr 2023, 10:34
Iíve currently got an ICAO ATPL with an A320 endorsement and am looking at getting my
EASA license. Can I ask how you went about getting your EASA exams done? Cheers

Just to be clear, I did the UK exams not the EASA ones.

That said, I did look into the EASA exams...

You need approval from the Authority under which you plan to write the exams. I recommend Austrcontrol(https://www.austrocontrol.at/en/pilots/pilot_licenses/examination) because they have several external examination centers. You can also write in Vienna any day of the week and the cost is quite reasonable - under 50 euro per subject, I believe. External centers charge up to 4x more and, generally offer fewer exam dates(once a month) but at least you might not have to travel far.In my case there are visa issues to consider.

In the link provided you will find contact details. Just email them and tell them you want to write and have an existing licence, etc - they will email you back a form that you fill in and provide last few pages of your logbook, copies of your current rating and medical and they will then authorise you to write the exams without an ATO supporting you. It's actually the easiest part of the nightmare that awaits you:}

Kennytheking
4th Apr 2023, 10:38
3-4 hours of SEP training and test to put an SEP on your existing licence, then another SEP LST in the UK sounds like it could still nevertheless be cheaper and easier to arrange than an LST with a UK Examiner on an A380 sim...
Definitely an option, although I dunno so much about GA flying here in UAE - I think I would just bite the bullet and do it all in UK.
That said, as awair indicated, a simple LST on an aeroplane that I have been flying for the last 12 years would be the best option by far.

36050100
4th Apr 2023, 10:59
That said, as awair indicated, a simple LST on an aeroplane that I have been flying for the last 12 years would be the best option by far.

I don't disagree. If you were flying 737 / 320 I think you would find it fairly easy to get a UK sim and examiner; the 380 is a bit of a niche though.

Whopity
6th Apr 2023, 12:11
would an LST in a UK registered SEP with a UK Examiner be sufficient for a UK ATPL to be issued, No, to open a new UK ATPL you must have a valid MP Type and an IR. Once you have the ATPL you can keep it ticking over with the SEP but an ATPL can't be issued solely on the basis of a SEP Class.

rudestuff
6th Apr 2023, 15:28
Do you need to do it at all? You have the exams which means you only need the skills test. Presumably you want the ATPL to get a job? You should be able to get the job on experience and that alone - whomever hires you will need to give you an LPC anyway, if not a whole new type rating.

Kennytheking
6th Apr 2023, 15:42
Do you need to do it at all? You have the exams which means you only need the skills test. Presumably you want the ATPL to get a job? You should be able to get the job on experience and that alone - whomever hires you will need to give you an LPC anyway, if not a whole new type rating.
A valid point and in my head, that is originally how it played out. However, since covid my plans for the future have changed several times and I am no longer sure what the future holds. For now I am just rolling stumbling blocks out of my way for any future moves, which may, or may not materialise.If the exams had an unlimited lifespan I would definitely have left the LST for a potential new employer.

rudestuff
6th Apr 2023, 17:27
A valid point and in my head, that is originally how it played out. However, since covid my plans for the future have changed several times and I am no longer sure what the future holds. For now I am just rolling stumbling blocks out of my way for any future moves, which may, or may not materialise.If the exams had an unlimited lifespan I would definitely have left the LST for a potential new employer.
Do you not have 500 hours on something smaller? If it comes to it you could save the exams with a SEIR.

Kennytheking
7th Apr 2023, 06:13
Do you not have 500 hours on something smaller? If it comes to it you could save the exams with a SEIR.
Sure, but that is a complete new avenue of investigation. which I may have to consider once I have exhausted my "better" options. Whopity made a point earlier that a new ATPL has to be done on a multi pilot aircraft and I fear he is correct, so all of these need to be taken into account.

rudestuff
7th Apr 2023, 09:26
Of course, but I'm guessing you didn't go straight from a Seneca to an A380? Is there something else multi crew that you have 500 hours on? If so you could renew that then convert. It's 2 checks which isn't ideal but it would be another option.

Kennytheking
7th Apr 2023, 10:42
F27, HS748, DC9, ERJ135 - but I think these would generate more questions/problems than solutions, especially in the UAE.

I flew the A330 13 years ago - I'm not sure if I can just renew that? Might be easier to just learn how to fly an A350 which is very similar to the A380. Right now my main hope is for an exemption which the CAA are diligently working on for the last 3 weeks. I do have several other enquiries out but it does seem that private individual training automatically shifts to the bottom of the priority list.