NPPL (SSEA) Conversion

[The Flyer 1234]

Hello All,

Would anyone have any information if there has been any progress of a conversion route from NPPL to UK PPL. I have tried searching various details but seems to be a lul in information after the start of the CAA reviews.

Also I am in Northern Ireland not sure if this would maybe open up a route via Republic Of Ireland and EASA. I just want to exhaust all avenues before starting again on a PPL course.

Thanks in advance

[Prop swinger]

Wheels are slowly turning, the CAA's recently published brief response to the consultation here:
https://www.caa.co.uk/general-aviation/pilot-licences/licensing-training-simplification/
but it could take a few years before the PPL(L) ever happens.

A chap on another forum who I believe is an AOPA rep to the GA Partnership says he intends to lobby the CAA to restore the NPPL(A) -> LAPL(A) route in the meantime. Of course, if your NPPL(A) was issued before April 2018 it can still be converted to an LAPL(A).

[Fl1ingfrog]

he intends to lobby the CAA to restore the NPPL(A) -> LAPL(A) route

Why restore this because the redundant LAPL is the NPPL in all but name? There cannot be any reason not to restore the simple NPPL route to the PPL, forget the unnecessary and complex EASA nonsense.

[TheOddOne]

I think one of the problems for the CAA is that they have to demonstrate that a 'PPL' is ICAO compliant. Where any or some of the training has been done outside the ICAO acceptable means of compliance (on a microlight, to the microlight syllabus, for instance) then there will always be those (possibly with an axe to grind) who will claim that a UK licence isn't compliant. This happened with the PPL exams - there are still those outside the UK who would say they should be done at a centre, not at schools.
Those of us who get regular updates from AOPA will have seen that the CAA's 'simplification' (which in my view will make it even more complicated) is several years down the road, anyway.
We operate both a microlight school and a Part21 aircraft PPL school. When people come to us, we ask what kind of flying they want to do in the future, so they can choose what route to take from the get-go. The C42 is a great aircraft to learn on and fly post licence issue but for the foreseeable it's a cul-de-sac.We're solidly booked on the PA28s whereas the C42 is quiet, which is a pity.

TOO

[Fl1ingfrog]

We need to remember that prior to EASA (lessor extent with the JAA) we had 'need to know' but clearly defined paths from the various NPPLs and also from Silver 'C' and Bronze gliding certificates to PPL. There are a number of modifications required to these various courses to update them but previously ICAO had not raised any issues with these to my knowledge. The short courses ensured that the ICAO requirements were completed.

I regularly taught and examined glider pilots and the NPPL range of licence conversions with few problems. The EASA barriers are artificial. The CAA then have good templates for all this and together with AOPA should be able to move quickly.

[Prop swinger]

NPPL(A) -> LAPL(A) was simple paperwork and cheque. LAPL(A) -> PPL(A) requires only 15 hours of training & supervised solo.

As a glider pilot I benefitted from the max allowed 10 hour reduction in the PPL syllabus so still had to do 35 hours of training before the flight test. I can't remember what allowances were given to NPPL(A) holders seeking an ICAO PPL but but I'm pretty sure they had to do more than 15 hours additional training & supervised solo. EASA regulations were pretty mush copy/pasted into UK law at Brexit. Recreating a NPPL(A) -> PPL(A) route would require changing the law, removing the 2018 cut-off for NPPL(A) -> LAPL(A) can apparently be done as a purely bureaucratic stroke of a pen.

[Fl1ingfrog]

As a glider pilot I benefitted from the max allowed 10 hour reduction in the PPL syllabus so still had to do 35 hours of training before the flight test. I can't remember what allowances were given to NPPL(A) holders seeking an ICAO PPL but but I'm pretty sure they had to do more than 15 hours additional training & supervised solo.

We need to go back a mere 20 - 22 years from now, before the period to which you refer. I can't remember that the minimum hours were demanded then other than the obvious differences were detailed including; 2 hours stall/spin awareness and 1 hour instrument flying as an example. A Silver 'C' could complete within 12 - 15 hours and Bronze 18 - 20 hours. The NPPL when it was introduced post JAA but before EASA was a truncated PPL and only required the differences to be completed to upgrade to PPL. I'm sure that BEagle and Whopity can put the meat on the bones.

[Genghis the Engineer]

We need to remember that prior to EASA (lessor extent with the JAA) we had 'need to know' but clearly defined paths from the various NPPLs and also from Silver 'C' and Bronze gliding certificates to PPL. There are a number of modifications required to these various courses to update them but previously ICAO had not raised any issues with these to my knowledge. The short courses ensured that the ICAO requirements were completed.

I regularly taught and examined glider pilots and the NPPL range of licence conversions with few problems. The EASA barriers are artificial. The CAA then have good templates for all this and together with AOPA should be able to move quickly.

My first licence was PPL(D), later PPL(M) now NPPL(M), but basically all the same national licence and syllabus.

I "upgraded" to PPL(A) in 2000 under the new JAA system. Had I done it a couple of years earlier I'd have needed I think 15 hours training and a test. Under JAA I needed (as a microlight pilot with around 300hrs) 35 hours. My instructor never touched the controls pretty much the whole course, and whilst I had stuff to learn, it definitely wasn't 35 hours worth. So I was forced to throw money away for no good reason by a system that thinks minimum hours is much more important than simply reaching test standard.

And this perpetuated through EASA and now UK-FCL. There are suggestions of improvements to this, but we're not seeing them yet. Thinking of my own history of gaining qualifications - I did PPL(M) and PPL(A) in minimum hours, so probably needed less, I did CPL(A) in 40hrs compared to the 25 minimum hours, so clearly needed that. I did MEP in minimum hours - did I need all I flew?, actually for that it was about right. Right now having been a CRI for 12 years with mid-3-figure instructing hours, I'm upgrading to FI, and my highly experienced FIC instructor declared the syllabus covered and me ready for test at 15 of the 30hrs required, but I'm still repeating exercises to get up to the 30hrs minimum.

Basically, we should scrap virtually all minimum hours requirements, ensure the syllabus has been covered, and load everything onto the test.

Rant over !

G

[Prop swinger]

We need to go back a mere 20 - 22 years from now, before the period to which you refer.
I got my PPL in 1999, a lifetime CAA licence not a JAR licence although I believe I did the JAR syllabus. The allowance was 10% of my gliding PIC time up to a maximum of 10 hours. I've found a 2008 copy of LASORS which says the same. The NPPL with SSEA upgrade merely required the pilot to have enough PIC & PUT time to cover the JAR PPL minimum dual & solo requirements, including the cross country, exams and JAR skill test. I guess that makes sense as the NPPL SSEA course was flown with a JAR instructor & taking the JAR exams.

[PhilPhlyer]

Anyone know what I need to do to downgrade my PPL A to an NPPL?
My flying needs are adequate and will remain so and I'm looking to reduce the need to do the 12 hours in the second year of the 2 month currency period plus reduce the annual medical requirement.
So, can I change at any time and what is the process?
Many thanks