Qatar Airways Near CFIT

[ORAC]

https://avherald.com/h?article=504d75c7


Incident: Qatar B788 at Doha on Jan 10th 2023, steep descent after takeoff

A Qatar Airways Boeing 787-8, registration A7-BCO performing flight QR-161 from Doha (Qatar) to Copenhagen (Denmark), departed Doha's runway 16L in night time conditions at 02:00L (23:00Z Jan 9th) and had climbed to about 1800 feet when the aircraft entered a steep descent losing 1000 feet within 24 seconds. The aircraft was subsequently recovered, climbed out and continued to Copenhagen where the aircraft landed safely about 6 hours later.

According to information The Aviation Herald received on Feb 7th 2023 the first officer was pilot flying. At about 1600 feet the aircraft was cleared direct to the next waypoint and the first officer attempted to turn towards that waypoint flying manually and without flight director indications (the captain was slow to put the Direct into the FMS) but lost situational awareness sending the aircraft into a descent that reached 3000 fpm sink rate and exceeded the flap speed limits until the captain took control of the aircraft and recovered about 800 feet above water. The occurrence was not reported to the authorities and only came to light later….

[ATC Watcher]

Jeeesus! , we already knew some could not fly visual approaches , but now they can't turn on manual without putting the aircraft into a spiral dive ? Who trains those guys ?

[Commander Taco]

From AvHerald:

Incident: Qatar B788 at Doha on Jan 10th 2023, steep descent after takeoff (http://www.avherald.com/h?article=504d75c7&opt=0)

[JanetFlight]

Some similarities here....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Air_Flight_072

[CDRW]

The results of a botched firing 'n hiring process with cut corners in Training to get the " numbers up.

Why didn't they report it! Just look at the work culture to get just a hint of the mind set of the crew!

Wonder if that clapped out ex EK numpty will do anything?

[HeathrowAirport]

The mind boggles. I've FDJ'd a B788/B789 when I was CCW and it's without doubt the best setup I've ever seen.

Qatars policy is to use the HUD right? I wonder if VMC at night over water, using the HUD and got into spatial disorientation as it states the flight director was off?

[Commander Taco]

The mind boggles. I've FDJ'd a B788/B789 when I was CCW and it's without doubt the best setup I've ever seen.

Qatars policy is to use the HUD right? I wonder if VMC at night over water, using the HUD and got into spatial disorientation as it states the flight director was off?

The article is not well written but I’m not sure the flight directors were off.

“the first officer attempted to turn towards that waypoint flying manually and without flight director indications (the captain was slow to put the Direct into the FMS) but lost situational awareness sending the”

I think it likely that the flight directors were on and as the captain was slow inputting the “direct to”, in the absence of a roll command the f/o began a turn. The whole thing is still hard to fathom. I mean, the fly-by-wire system automatically compensates for the higher wing-loading generated in a turn - there is no need to apply control column back pressure until 30° of bank is exceeded.

[360BakTrak]

The mind boggles. I've FDJ'd a B788/B789 when I was CCW and it's without doubt the best setup I've ever seen.

Qatars policy is to use the HUD right? I wonder if VMC at night over water, using the HUD and got into spatial disorientation as it states the flight director was off?

I don't think QR 787's have RHS HUD?

[VHOED191006]

Oh look. The incident wasn't reported, most likely due to the crew fearing the repercussions. Quelle surprise. :rolleyes:

[VHOED191006]

I don't think QR 787's have RHS HUD?

They do.

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/6/81705_1448390737.jpg

[AmarokGTI]

The article is not well written but I’m not sure the flight directors were off.

“the first officer attempted to turn towards that waypoint flying manually and without flight director indications (the captain was slow to put the Direct into the FMS) but lost situational awareness sending the”

I think it likely that the flight directors were on and as the captain was slow inputting the “direct to”, in the absence of a roll command the f/o began a turn. The whole thing is still hard to fathom. I mean, the fly-by-wire system automatically compensates for the higher wing-loading generated in a turn - there is no need to apply control column back pressure until 30° of bank is exceeded.

AVHerald stuff is rarely well written so at least he’s consistent

[360BakTrak]

They do.

https://cdn.jetphotos.com/full/6/81705_1448390737.jpg

Ah....thought I'd heard years ago it was some option they hadn't opted for. Memory isn't what it used to be it would seem!

[SOPS]

Oh look. The incident wasn't reported, most likely due to the crew fearing the repercussions. Quelle surprise. :rolleyes:

Tea..no biscuits will be the result.

[22/04]

Would most continue to destination if flap limiting speed had been exceeded? Not sure I would be happy as pax.

[SOPS]

Would most continue to destination if flap limiting speed had been exceeded? Not sure I would be happy as pax.

The “non rotate “ incident at EK … they overspeeded all sorts of things… and went across the Atlantic to Washington!!!

Ask your self… why?

[Shrike200]

Oh look. The incident wasn't reported, most likely due to the crew fearing the repercussions. Quelle surprise. :rolleyes:

Don't worry, I'm sure they're scrambling as hard as possible right now to ignore this inconvenient fact. It's critically important to learn precisely zero lessons, especially lessons that have already been learned the hard way.

Let's keep our eyes on target here, and keep the primary goal of just dismissing each and every pilot that even breathes wrong in mind. This also satisfies the secondary goal of doubling down on the fail, and publically displaying that they've done so.

[VHOED191006]

Ah....thought I'd heard years ago it was some option they hadn't opted for. Memory isn't what it used to be it would seem!
We all suffer the occasional dementia!

Don't worry, I'm sure they're scrambling as hard as possible right now to ignore this inconvenient fact. It's critically important to learn precisely zero lessons, especially lessons that have already been learned the hard way.

Let's keep our eyes on target here, and keep the primary goal of just dismissing each and every pilot that even breathes wrong in mind. This also satisfies the secondary goal of doubling down on the fail, and publically displaying that they've done so.
Why of course! This is what the industry is totally built upon anyway!

[Ollie Onion]

Would most continue to destination if flap limiting speed had been exceeded? Not sure I would be happy as pax.

Well, to land at either side your are going to have to extend the flaps so the question would be ‘where do I want to report this’, anywhere in the Middle East wouldn’t be my first choice due to their habit of throwing expats in jail.

[RatherBeFlying]

Night "VFR" departures over the water or unlit terrain have ended up with a number of crews hitting the water or terrain. Kudos to the commander for catching the problem in time. Too many other crews didn't.

Management might terminate the crew, but they and their pax are still alive.
​​​​​​

[PoppaJo]

All this nonsense talk lately around single pilot operations are the future. Yeah right, at the loss of one aircraft per week and hundreds dead.

[MPN11]

A couple of holiday snaps on a DOH departure suggest there's no shortage of visual cues, certainly at the early stage of a departure.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/doh_lgw_1_056ce891a9fa88d58370d39c84976beeef81e67a.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/doh_lgw_2_ff3c212a2d09bd33ee72fe1706f74fcf63550c91.jpeg

[360BakTrak]

A couple of holiday snaps on a DOH departure suggest there's no shortage of visual cues, certainly at the early stage of a departure.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/doh_lgw_1_056ce891a9fa88d58370d39c84976beeef81e67a.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/doh_lgw_2_ff3c212a2d09bd33ee72fe1706f74fcf63550c91.jpeg

The first picture is northbound. The incident aircraft departed 16L so as soon as the left turn initiated you're into the blackness over the sea. Not defending them, just providing some context.

[Chiefttp]

I can tell you that those lighted roads in the lower picture can cause some spatial disorientation. Flying into New Orleans, there is a road that crosses a large waterway, and its direction and vector will mess with your senses. It’s similar to Air to Air Refueling with a sloping cloud deck. You may be in level flight, but the cloud-deck makes one feel as if in a bank. Dangerous.

[WhyWhyWhy...]

The mind boggles. I've FDJ'd a B788/B789 when I was CCW and it's without doubt the best setup I've ever seen.

Qatars policy is to use the HUD right? I wonder if VMC at night over water, using the HUD and got into spatial disorientation as it states the flight director was off?

The HUD is predominantly used only for LV approach’s though, why would you use it on a night VMC departure?

[Heavy Metal]

Kudos to the commander for catching the problem in time.
​​​​​​

After a "1000" auto aural call out and a "terrain terrain" warning?

[Check Airman]

Automation dependency rears its ugly head again.

[Check Airman]

After a "1000" auto aural call out and a "terrain terrain" warning?

When I’m inside messing with the fms, I don’t expect the other guy to suffer spatial disorientation.

I’ve never flown with a HUD. Could the FO have been looking through the hud at something in the background and ignoring the symbology? If that’s a possibility, it seems you’d be better off looking at the PFD.

On the earlier question of HUDs, I recall reading some time ago that dual HUDs are standard on the 787.

[FalseGS]

Sounds like something that has happened before and will continue to do so.

Captain heads down trying to find the direct to waypoint. Keep in mind the SIDs out of DOH have lots of closely spaced points and the direct to's there can be on the second/third legs page. Can take longer than usual to find the point and bring it to the top.

Effo decides he will start turn in the approximate direction of the cleared to point. Poor guy banks 25, neglects to keep pitch up (I'm unaware of the trim characteristics on the 787 but the 737 needs manual pitch and/or trim inputs). Transition from peripheral city visual cues off to the right with a turn into a black hole with randomly spaced lit ships off the coast. Down goes the nose.

Where's that point. Ah got it. Heads up and GPWS warning. Whatcha doin' there buddy? Oh crap. I have control!!!

Question is much before the terrain alert there should be a don't sink aural. That should've prevented the supposed 3000fpm and late identification of loss of altitude.

[ScepticalOptomist]

The HUD is predominantly used only for LV approach’s though, why would you use it on a night VMC departure?

We use it for all operations below 10,000’.

Do you turn off / dim your PFD for VMC departures? Of course not - use all available instrumentation…

[ATC Watcher]

It indeed has killed many. But honestly , why it has to continue? Banking hard looking down whether it is a a black hole or at a point of interest you are likely to end up in a spiral dive at one point or another since the beginning of flying. and basically at low level you should seriously monitor your turns . This used to be basic PPL hand flying knowledge
Punching numbers or waypoints right after take off while banking on manual at night over the sea is not a bright idea,. Why they became complacent in thinking it was ok to do ? too easy aircraft that 99% of the time fly by itself ?
When I was a student pilot in the air force , the briefing after our very first nav solo on the jet was a reminder on the rule that it was absolutely prohibited to fly above parents or girl friend house on the way back. . Reason was too many young guys got killed and/or crashed aircraft in wanting to say hello, banking hard above the house. while looking at the people waving on the ground. That was 50 years ago, I wonder if this rule still exists...

[fdr]

Would most continue to destination if flap limiting speed had been exceeded? Not sure I would be happy as pax.


it isn't the overspeed of the flaps itself that is the problem, it is the better than even chance that the crew when confronted with the next alert for the overspeed end up retracting the flaps while overspeeding... It is a small minority of crews that don't compound overspeeds by flicking switches levers and bell cranks into eye pleasing order, instead of just correcting the flight path. The system is pretty tolerant, if abused enough stuff falls off but more often than not it is remarkably benign. There were the two checkers in a B74F competing for the lowest rung that flicked the flaps just so and the ind RH trailing element came off did a pirouette/flettnery thingy and speared into the fuselage at 90 degrees like a lawn dart. Post shut down, "Nil Defects", but the maintenance engineer noticed the rearranged flaps. Failed in overload... biggly! Ferried back home with lotsa speed tape de-press'd, and got parted out, cancelled the amendment service for the applicable AMM/AFM etc.. Blenders flew again... gear did too. flaps... not so much.

[HeathrowAirport]

I've got a picture I took from the 4th FDJ in the cruise at Sunset of the HUD. FWIW (Probably nothing)

I just read from another source, that when the Captain was playing with the FMS, the FO wasn't following the commands of the FD as he made an earlier turn of what would be the direction of travel. So the earlier reports or as per AvHerald of missing FD are incorrect. The aircraft I fly for IFR ventures don't have FD as we don't have a digital autopilot, so limited to flying without guidance - I suspect a huge somatogravic illusion happened to the FO who wasn't expecting incorrect FPV or FD indications? Not giving excuses to the FO, but do you get the transition of turbulence crossing the land to the cooler sea like you do at most place which makes looking at the HUD a bit more disor

P.s. I think it's standard Boeing Procedure to use the HUD in all phases of flight.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1067x800/b789hud_c3cb2a494e671b299436a6fb061aaec08fad0539.jpg
B789 HUD




The article is not well written but I’m not sure the flight directors were off.

“the first officer attempted to turn towards that waypoint flying manually and without flight director indications (the captain was slow to put the Direct into the FMS) but lost situational awareness sending the”

I think it likely that the flight directors were on and as the captain was slow inputting the “direct to”, in the absence of a roll command the f/o began a turn. The whole thing is still hard to fathom. I mean, the fly-by-wire system automatically compensates for the higher wing-loading generated in a turn - there is no need to apply control column back pressure until 30° of bank is exceeded.

The HUD is predominantly used only for LV approach’s though, why would you use it on a night VMC departure?

[ScepticalOptomist]

So between a HUD and a PFD, a turn to a heading without the use of the flight directors should not be a difficult task. This incident boggles the mind unless the pilot flying was incapacitated somehow.

[midnight cruiser]

Or dog tired?!

[punkalouver]

News is talking about a United near accident now....

United Airlines plane taking off from Maui plunged to within 800 feet of the Pacific Ocean, flight data shows (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/news/united-airlines-plane-taking-off-from-maui-plunged-to-within-800-feet-of-the-pacific-ocean-flight-data-shows/ar-AA17qyau?ocid=msedgntp&pc=W046&cvid=10d6b49e762d4a25b94270ced4b1c10f)

[paulross]

News is talking about a United near accident now....

United Airlines plane taking off from Maui plunged to within 800 feet of the Pacific Ocean, flight data shows (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-ca/travel/news/united-airlines-plane-taking-off-from-maui-plunged-to-within-800-feet-of-the-pacific-ocean-flight-data-shows/ar-AA17qyau?ocid=msedgntp&pc=W046&cvid=10d6b49e762d4a25b94270ced4b1c10f)

Thread here https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/651321-another-unreported-near-cfit.html

[100Series]

FWIW on the queen of the skies, (which sometimes took a few seconds to work out direct to) we would goto HDG SEL spin the heading dial to something like the right direction, giving the correct flight director readings. When PM and the FMS have worked out the precise direction, PF glanced down at the nav display, agrees it's correct, PM activates it and they switch back to NAV mode. Simples!

[Torquetalk]

FWIW on the queen of the skies, (which sometimes took a few seconds to work out direct to) we would goto HDG SEL spin the heading dial to something like the right direction, giving the correct flight director readings. When PM and the FMS have worked out the precise direction, PF glanced down at the nav display, agrees it's correct, PM activates it and they switch back to NAV mode. Simples!

And safe. Overriding the FD less so. Not hard at all to over-control and induce a somewhat unusual attitude. Especially if doing it at night whilst the PM is head down and until they have finished playing Candy Crunch with the FMS. Bad practice.

[Jack D]

FWIW on the queen of the skies, (which sometimes took a few seconds to work out direct to) we would goto HDG SEL spin the heading dial to something like the right direction, giving the correct flight director readings. When PM and the FMS have worked out the precise direction, PF glanced down at the nav display, agrees it's correct, PM activates it and they switch back to NAV mode. Simples!

This is good practice and recommended in Boeing ftm , no need to rush fms selection when a perfectly good map display is available together with hdg Sel .

[172_driver]

It's also good practice to now how to execute a climbing turn with reference to instruments.

[Torquetalk]

It's also good practice to now how to execute a climbing turn with reference to instruments.

More a necessary core skill. If you are going to steer through the FD inputs, there had better be a good reason as it is not safe practice to do this at night, during the departure, with pax on board, with the PM not monitoring…

Hand flying is important and should happen. But not like that. The risks are self-evident.

[fdr]

Is there an outbreak of inability to read and comprehend instruments, or are we now seeing the result of excessive reliance on automation to do the simple things in life? Even our latrines have automated functions as tidying up after ourselves has become a bridge too far, like being able to walk and chew gum, climb and complete a turn to a new WPT or initial heading... perhaps it is time to revert a number of our drivers to 2-D operations as 3-D seems to be resulting in excessive demand on the spatial orientation, SA and cognitive skill sets of those that are overtaxed by what should be a routine and enjoyable part of the task.

We have captains that cannot work out when they need to rotate the aircraft, "is that before or after the end fence?"
We have drivers that have an affinity for low level dive bomb profiles,
We have drivers that manage to park B767s into the pond at 45 degrees in response to nonsense in front of them, VMC(ish)...
We have people who shut down props instead of selecting flaps, and don't work out before stalling the toy what they did....
We have an ATC system in the first world that seems to be acopic, and drivers who appear to rely on the infallibility of ATC as the justification to not bothering to look at where they are about to park their own aircraft (not always, sometimes the red cap and the D are on the crew from north of the border, who speak funny and seem to have a problem with 28R.... )

Do we need a 24 hour stand down to get our collective heads out of our butts, and to give vocational options to those that should be more comfortable with Nintendo than a plane filled up with cargo that happens to have others that might care as to their disposition and future serviceability of the individual? Plonking bits of humanity into untidy barricaded hazmat zones is just a bad look, but we seem to be getting lots of attempts to do so. We have been doing this for a looooooooong time, and the recognition of the issues of the HMI and cognitive constraints of humans has had a lot of airtime and remediation, and it seems that we are about where we started, a long time back. Process progress is normally from left to right, although a number of languages would argue differently to that, but, we seem to be having a reprise of Ground Hog Day.

[punkalouver]

Is there an outbreak of inability to read and comprehend instruments, or are we now seeing the result of excessive reliance on automation to do the simple things in life? Even our latrines have automated functions as tidying up after ourselves has become a bridge too far, like being able to walk and chew gum, climb and complete a turn to a new WPT or initial heading... perhaps it is time to revert a number of our drivers to 2-D operations as 3-D seems to be resulting in excessive demand on the spatial orientation, SA and cognitive skill sets of those that are overtaxed by what should be a routine and enjoyable part of the task.

We have captains that cannot work out when they need to rotate the aircraft, "is that before or after the end fence?"
We have drivers that have an affinity for low level dive bomb profiles,
We have drivers that manage to park B767s into the pond at 45 degrees in response to nonsense in front of them, VMC(ish)...
We have people who shut down props instead of selecting flaps, and don't work out before stalling the toy what they did....
We have an ATC system in the first world that seems to be acopic, and drivers who appear to rely on the infallibility of ATC as the justification to not bothering to look at where they are about to park their own aircraft (not always, sometimes the red cap and the D are on the crew from north of the border, who speak funny and seem to have a problem with 28R.... )

Do we need a 24 hour stand down to get our collective heads out of our butts, and to give vocational options to those that should be more comfortable with Nintendo than a plane filled up with cargo that happens to have others that might care as to their disposition and future serviceability of the individual? Plonking bits of humanity into untidy barricaded hazmat zones is just a bad look, but we seem to be getting lots of attempts to do so. We have been doing this for a looooooooong time, and the recognition of the issues of the HMI and cognitive constraints of humans has had a lot of airtime and remediation, and it seems that we are about where we started, a long time back. Process progress is normally from left to right, although a number of languages would argue differently to that, but, we seem to be having a reprise of Ground Hog Day.

Probably all happened in the old days. It just got hidden among all the CFIT’s, microbursts, and mechanical failures.

[fdr]

Probably all happened in the old days. It just got hidden among all the CFIT’s, microbursts, and mechanical failures.

to an extent, quite so. We had SAS park a 4 holer off Santa Monica, we had Pan Am knowing the 7 seas, intimately, we did barrel rolls in B707s inadvertently... perhaps beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but we are supposed to be be "safe" today, cuz we got rhythym systems, fancy stuff to make it all right, we have magenta, we have EGPWS, we have everything other than Doug the Dog and the balloons on Mr Fredrickson's house.... We got it all, and we are still drooling into our oat meal as far as situational awareness goes, and cognition. Something stinks and it isn't Dougs food bowl, (he did well in his Sopwith).

[Denti]

We are much safer than in the olden days, and yes, all those bells and whistles do help. And of course we still have incidents happen and we continue to learn from them and improve further. I’m not less of a pilot now that the autopilot flies the TCAS avoidance, or the plane automatically reports braking action in roll out so that others get a nearly real time update.

But i have to say, i really enjoyed that rant, very well done indeed ;)

[alf5071h]

"We got it all, and we are still drooling into our oat meal as far as situational awareness goes, and cognition."

Everything is continually changing; we often forget about ourselves and the safety system we inhabit.

‘Wayfinding’ Michael Bond
"Modern humans interact with the world in much the same way that prehistoric humans did. We may travel further and faster, and we have some fabulously clever instruments to help us get around, but the manner in which we use our brains to stay orientated is not so different,
We scout landmarks, attend to our surroundings, memorise vistas, build 'cognitive maps' and generally keep our spatial wits about us, just as the hunter-gatherers of the Pleistocene did. Some of us are a lot better at this than others, and that is the way it has always been.
At least, this was the case until around the year 2000; since then, a great deal has changed. Many of us now delegate all that cognitive heavy lifting to GPS-enabled navigation tools, which guide us where we want to go without us having to attend to anything. Follow the blue dot on your smartphone app or obey your satnav's spoken instructions and you'll arrive at your destination without having troubled the place cells in your hippocampus or the decision-making circuitry of your prefrontal cortex. You won't have to know how you got there or remember anything about the route you took. For the first time in the history of human evolution, we have stopped using many of the spatial skills that have sustained us for tens of thousands of years."

… pay attention to the surroundings, build a mental map, shape character of items, links, sequence of turns.

GPS turns the world into abstract embedded in a digital device. Web searches, instant answers, we exchange for absolute certainty, we sacrifice our sense of place - replacing cognitive skill with technology - reassign mental resource.
Situation awareness; perception, comprehension, - sufficient to identify required SOP; yet SOPs imply completeness, an assured outcome; thus no projection aspect of SA, no thinking ahead, being ready for surprises.
Technology promotes the use of automated response strategies - like a robot.

The issue is not to stop using the phone (technology), its being aware of the decision and the effects it might have … we move through the world unaware, and not be affected by our lack of knowledge. No immediate raw experience of the real, we miss the opportunity to develop rich knowledge an rich remembering.

Also; in a very safe industry, training emphasis on SOP compliance oppose the skills required to manage the unexpected.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9o7da1hmi5fsr0z/From individuals to the evolution of safety paradigms Paries +++.pdf?dl=0
"operators will find it even more difficult to construct a ‘mental model’ of the machine and to predict and understand what it is doing. We already know the associated negative effects: overconfidence in the machine; loss of comprehension; issues with alertness; loss of basic know-how, which remains crucial in degraded mode. "

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1007/978-3-031-07805-7_13

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jean-Paries/publication/291268264_Lessons_from_the_Hudson/links/60808ea0907dcf667bb5abf7/Lessons-from-the-Hudson.pdf?origin=publication_detail

[1southernman]

Is there an outbreak of inability to read and comprehend instruments, or are we now seeing the result of excessive reliance on automation to do the simple things in life? Even our latrines have automated functions as tidying up after ourselves has become a bridge too far, like being able to walk and chew gum, climb and complete a turn to a new WPT or initial heading... perhaps it is time to revert a number of our drivers to 2-D operations as 3-D seems to be resulting in excessive demand on the spatial orientation, SA and cognitive skill sets of those that are overtaxed by what should be a routine and enjoyable part of the task.

We have captains that cannot work out when they need to rotate the aircraft, "is that before or after the end fence?"
We have drivers that have an affinity for low level dive bomb profiles,
We have drivers that manage to park B767s into the pond at 45 degrees in response to nonsense in front of them, VMC(ish)...
We have people who shut down props instead of selecting flaps, and don't work out before stalling the toy what they did....
We have an ATC system in the first world that seems to be acopic, and drivers who appear to rely on the infallibility of ATC as the justification to not bothering to look at where they are about to park their own aircraft (not always, sometimes the red cap and the D are on the crew from north of the border, who speak funny and seem to have a problem with 28R.... )

Do we need a 24 hour stand down to get our collective heads out of our butts, and to give vocational options to those that should be more comfortable with Nintendo than a plane filled up with cargo that happens to have others that might care as to their disposition and future serviceability of the individual? Plonking bits of humanity into untidy barricaded hazmat zones is just a bad look, but we seem to be getting lots of attempts to do so. We have been doing this for a looooooooong time, and the recognition of the issues of the HMI and cognitive constraints of humans has had a lot of airtime and remediation, and it seems that we are about where we started, a long time back. Process progress is normally from left to right, although a number of languages would argue differently to that, but, we seem to be having a reprise of Ground Hog Day.
FDR well said as usual...The old photo of a ragwing of some sort hanging in the lone tree in the otherwsie clear pasture comes to mind...basics...

[aeromech3]

I am somewhat out of date with the newer Boeing's, but back in my B747 days some, but not all, had Flap Load relief? I say not all because on an SP type a Captain 'thought' it had it and over sped the flap limits and reported the system had not worked in the Tech Log; the subsequent inspection required removal and NDT of the flap carriage bolts, a some-what major job. I should have expected such a system would have been easily installed on a digital age B787?
On another occasion during the antiquated post major maintenance stall check, the senior Capt. had to push the RB211's to the wall to avoid a @.
Flight recovered and all aboard chuckled, until the QAR read out came through, 3 of 4 engines had exceeded their N1 limits, again left to Engineering/Maintenance to sort out.
Luckily for the above Captains they were not flying for a QR type Co.

[Timmy Tomkins]

Having flown both old "clockwork" dials and modern screens, I like the screens and it makes things easier, however. The old gauges required the driver to create a mental image of where they were, I guess it's SA, whereas reliance on screens with pretty pictures means that is not quite as necessary.