Qatar Airways Near CFIT
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Qatar B788 descent after takeoff to 800ft
https://avherald.com/h?article=504d75c7
Incident: Qatar B788 at Doha on Jan 10th 2023, steep descent after takeoff
A Qatar Airways Boeing 787-8, registration A7-BCO performing flight QR-161 from Doha (Qatar) to Copenhagen (Denmark), departed Doha's runway 16L in night time conditions at 02:00L (23:00Z Jan 9th) and had climbed to about 1800 feet when the aircraft entered a steep descent losing 1000 feet within 24 seconds. The aircraft was subsequently recovered, climbed out and continued to Copenhagen where the aircraft landed safely about 6 hours later.
According to information The Aviation Herald received on Feb 7th 2023 the first officer was pilot flying. At about 1600 feet the aircraft was cleared direct to the next waypoint and the first officer attempted to turn towards that waypoint flying manually and without flight director indications (the captain was slow to put the Direct into the FMS) but lost situational awareness sending the aircraft into a descent that reached 3000 fpm sink rate and exceeded the flap speed limits until the captain took control of the aircraft and recovered about 800 feet above water. The occurrence was not reported to the authorities and only came to light later….
Incident: Qatar B788 at Doha on Jan 10th 2023, steep descent after takeoff
A Qatar Airways Boeing 787-8, registration A7-BCO performing flight QR-161 from Doha (Qatar) to Copenhagen (Denmark), departed Doha's runway 16L in night time conditions at 02:00L (23:00Z Jan 9th) and had climbed to about 1800 feet when the aircraft entered a steep descent losing 1000 feet within 24 seconds. The aircraft was subsequently recovered, climbed out and continued to Copenhagen where the aircraft landed safely about 6 hours later.
According to information The Aviation Herald received on Feb 7th 2023 the first officer was pilot flying. At about 1600 feet the aircraft was cleared direct to the next waypoint and the first officer attempted to turn towards that waypoint flying manually and without flight director indications (the captain was slow to put the Direct into the FMS) but lost situational awareness sending the aircraft into a descent that reached 3000 fpm sink rate and exceeded the flap speed limits until the captain took control of the aircraft and recovered about 800 feet above water. The occurrence was not reported to the authorities and only came to light later….
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Jeeesus! , we already knew some could not fly visual approaches , but now they can't turn on manual without putting the aircraft into a spiral dive ? Who trains those guys ?
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The results of a botched firing 'n hiring process with cut corners in Training to get the " numbers up.
Why didn't they report it! Just look at the work culture to get just a hint of the mind set of the crew!
Wonder if that clapped out ex EK numpty will do anything?
Why didn't they report it! Just look at the work culture to get just a hint of the mind set of the crew!
Wonder if that clapped out ex EK numpty will do anything?
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The mind boggles. I've FDJ'd a B788/B789 when I was CCW and it's without doubt the best setup I've ever seen.
Qatars policy is to use the HUD right? I wonder if VMC at night over water, using the HUD and got into spatial disorientation as it states the flight director was off?
Qatars policy is to use the HUD right? I wonder if VMC at night over water, using the HUD and got into spatial disorientation as it states the flight director was off?
Originally Posted by HeathrowAirport
The mind boggles. I've FDJ'd a B788/B789 when I was CCW and it's without doubt the best setup I've ever seen.
Qatars policy is to use the HUD right? I wonder if VMC at night over water, using the HUD and got into spatial disorientation as it states the flight director was off?
Qatars policy is to use the HUD right? I wonder if VMC at night over water, using the HUD and got into spatial disorientation as it states the flight director was off?
“the first officer attempted to turn towards that waypoint flying manually and without flight director indications (the captain was slow to put the Direct into the FMS) but lost situational awareness sending the”
I think it likely that the flight directors were on and as the captain was slow inputting the “direct to”, in the absence of a roll command the f/o began a turn. The whole thing is still hard to fathom. I mean, the fly-by-wire system automatically compensates for the higher wing-loading generated in a turn - there is no need to apply control column back pressure until 30° of bank is exceeded.
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Originally Posted by HeathrowAirport
The mind boggles. I've FDJ'd a B788/B789 when I was CCW and it's without doubt the best setup I've ever seen.
Qatars policy is to use the HUD right? I wonder if VMC at night over water, using the HUD and got into spatial disorientation as it states the flight director was off?
Qatars policy is to use the HUD right? I wonder if VMC at night over water, using the HUD and got into spatial disorientation as it states the flight director was off?
Originally Posted by Commander Taco
The article is not well written but I’m not sure the flight directors were off.
“the first officer attempted to turn towards that waypoint flying manually and without flight director indications (the captain was slow to put the Direct into the FMS) but lost situational awareness sending the”
I think it likely that the flight directors were on and as the captain was slow inputting the “direct to”, in the absence of a roll command the f/o began a turn. The whole thing is still hard to fathom. I mean, the fly-by-wire system automatically compensates for the higher wing-loading generated in a turn - there is no need to apply control column back pressure until 30° of bank is exceeded.
“the first officer attempted to turn towards that waypoint flying manually and without flight director indications (the captain was slow to put the Direct into the FMS) but lost situational awareness sending the”
I think it likely that the flight directors were on and as the captain was slow inputting the “direct to”, in the absence of a roll command the f/o began a turn. The whole thing is still hard to fathom. I mean, the fly-by-wire system automatically compensates for the higher wing-loading generated in a turn - there is no need to apply control column back pressure until 30° of bank is exceeded.
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Originally Posted by VHOED191006
They do.
Originally Posted by VHOED191006
Oh look. The incident wasn't reported, most likely due to the crew fearing the repercussions. Quelle surprise. 
Originally Posted by 22/04
Would most continue to destination if flap limiting speed had been exceeded? Not sure I would be happy as pax.
Ask your self… why?
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Originally Posted by VHOED191006
Oh look. The incident wasn't reported, most likely due to the crew fearing the repercussions. Quelle surprise.
Let's keep our eyes on target here, and keep the primary goal of just dismissing each and every pilot that even breathes wrong in mind. This also satisfies the secondary goal of doubling down on the fail, and publically displaying that they've done so.
Originally Posted by 360BakTrak
Ah....thought I'd heard years ago it was some option they hadn't opted for. Memory isn't what it used to be it would seem!
Originally Posted by Shrike200
Don't worry, I'm sure they're scrambling as hard as possible right now to ignore this inconvenient fact. It's critically important to learn precisely zero lessons, especially lessons that have already been learned the hard way.
Let's keep our eyes on target here, and keep the primary goal of just dismissing each and every pilot that even breathes wrong in mind. This also satisfies the secondary goal of doubling down on the fail, and publically displaying that they've done so.
Let's keep our eyes on target here, and keep the primary goal of just dismissing each and every pilot that even breathes wrong in mind. This also satisfies the secondary goal of doubling down on the fail, and publically displaying that they've done so.
Originally Posted by 22/04
Would most continue to destination if flap limiting speed had been exceeded? Not sure I would be happy as pax.
Night "VFR" departures over the water or unlit terrain have ended up with a number of crews hitting the water or terrain. Kudos to the commander for catching the problem in time. Too many other crews didn't.
Management might terminate the crew, but they and their pax are still alive.
Management might terminate the crew, but they and their pax are still alive.
Last edited by RatherBeFlying; 9th Feb 2023 at 01:34.
