Current Info on CX post-covid [Archive]

Smallworld

22nd Jan 2023, 04:04

KABOY

22nd Jan 2023, 10:51

Hi All,

I fully understand condition is not what it once was but due to other personal reason a relocation to Asia is required.

Trying to find out information regarding to the current roster, pay(#of hour expected to fly a month), and upgrade timeline for a DEFO.

Heard senority is no longer important for upgrade, lots of spots that need to be back filled due to the exitous, and the process is no longer as punishing as it once was.

And info on CX, HKE, HKA, GreaterBay regarding roster, pay, and upgrade timeline would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Go to HK and get the job, it’s that simple.

No need to BS about need to go, the decision is made.

Take whatever crap offer is on offer, the punishing is not over and people like you are the reason why….and you come here for what reason?

I like guys like you, it’s the reason we still have pprune, the generation XYZ. This is the generation that shall see pilots forever live in poverty as they cannot weigh up self worth outside the industry.

Rie

22nd Jan 2023, 11:36

Hi All,

I fully understand condition is not what it once was but due to other personal reason a relocation to Asia is required.

Trying to find out information regarding to the current roster, pay(#of hour expected to fly a month), and upgrade timeline for a DEFO.

Heard senority is no longer important for upgrade, lots of spots that need to be back filled due to the exitous, and the process is no longer as punishing as it once was.

And info on CX, HKE, HKA, GreaterBay regarding roster, pay, and upgrade timeline would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Upgrade timeline simplified. Get in and the more you ask the quicker you’ll get it. Suck up to the right people and service them and I heard it’s before the end of your line training. If they don’t like you it’ll be 11-13 years plus, I guess most of us aren’t liked.

Pay wise: POS18, HKEunlivable23, gba. In that order. You won’t be paid well like pre pandemic times. better off in the desert or get that visa to America.
Current delta 767 command is 4 months.

PPRuNeUser0163

22nd Jan 2023, 20:08

Upgrade timeline simplified. Get in and the more you ask the quicker you’ll get it. Suck up to the right people and service them and I heard it’s before the end of your line training. If they don’t like you it’ll be 11-13 years plus, I guess most of us aren’t liked.

Pay wise: POS18, HKEunlivable23, gba. In that order. You won’t be paid well like pre pandemic times. better off in the desert or get that visa to America.
Current delta 767 command is 4 months.

Zero seniority, a constantly changing COS with variable monthly flying hours and pay, an ever growing Chinese presence on the way of life in HK, just a few diabolical reasons not to go.
11-13 years is a very optimistic estimate- likely to be much longer considering an FO upgrade even is 6-7.

Gaisha

23rd Jan 2023, 00:53

the salary on FO1 pay scale is only good for a single person. FO2 only after 4-5 years. Many options in the States and Middle East. If you’re under 30 with another 35 years to go … by all means give HK a go…. If you have experience and close to command in your home country … don’t bother coming, You’ll be bottom of the pile and you’ll be looking at least 10 years to command in a city that has lost its sparkle.

FUPM102

23rd Jan 2023, 01:55

With their new contracts and contract-extentions, US major carriers Delta, Jetblue, United etc. are making nearly $400 an hour flying NARROWBODY. Not to mention 18% 401K contribution and amazing work rules. Why would you come here to HK? Go get that work visa!

ZootBoot

23rd Jan 2023, 05:27

FO1 take home pay is around $60K-$70 HKD per month before tax. Do not expect to earn any significant extra flying hours as this is inconsistent and the roster is not stable. If you have a family, or want to have a family, expect your monthly rent to be 40%- 50% of your monthly salary. Schools fee's at most international schools are around $185K -$250 per year, per child (not including extra curricular). Cost of living is quite high, but its on par with other expensive cities. Public transport is cheap and you don't really need a car in most areas. If you do need a car, its expensive. Your spouse or partner will need to work and if you have a family, you will need a domestic helper unless you have family in town to help.

If you are young and don't have (or want) kids; or you do have kids but don't have a brain then its worth a go if there is literally nothing else.

A lot of people have left Cathay because they could no longer afford it, but there are those who have soldiered on and have been able to stay on this poor contract by supplementing their income with Uber driving, doing Deliveroo or starting an OnlyFans.

Smallworld

23rd Jan 2023, 14:32

Thank you all for the info.

Just curious about if the option of having a ultra compact roster is still offered.

Seems like the consensus is that upgrade is 10+ years. Coming in as a DEFO still would mean needing to wait in senority for all the SO above to upgrade before one is able to bid for the command course.

Does anyone know if the pilot pool has stabilized since the reopening, or are they still bleeding more pilots then they recruit fast enough. Which may affect the timeline further down the road.

And does anyone have HKE info on upgrade timeline? If one is willing to make a parallel move?

Thanks

swh

23rd Jan 2023, 14:50

Rosters are great, only 55 logbook hours over 22 days (and get this, only have to spend 175 hours at work to do that !!!, it is SOOOOOO good), it is very posh, new shiny jets, big airports, fancy uniform.

Dont worry about the pay, after 23 years (not 2 to 3), you will actually make enough to save maybe HKD$1000 a week, that is MASSIVE.

There have been a spate of recent failures, YouTube how to stretch your hamstring muscles a number of new recruits were unable to bend over and touch their toes and say goodbye.

OneBarWonder

24th Jan 2023, 19:24

Smallworld

25th Jan 2023, 02:39

I relocated to the US about a year ago and didn’t realise how truly awful CX/HKG was until I left.

The people here are so damn nice and I’ll be making more than a CX captain on second year FO pay.

We all know the US market is the place to be the next decade. But not everyone has the right to work there!

Places like Asia n the sandbox don't need right to work for one to work there.

controlledrest

25th Jan 2023, 03:53

Thank you all for the info.

Just curious about if the option of having a ultra compact roster is still offered. No. Also remember don't believe anything the company tells you. They might say you can commute, that we have the latest rostering system letting you control your life, but it is all bull****. They cherry pick what suits them. Our rostering system is broken, everything is done to suit the company.

We don't have an employment contract. Everything is company policy, which they can alter without notice whenever it suits them. The main reason all the bases were closed is that COS18 wouldn't be remotely legal anywhere but HKG.

Seems like the consensus is that upgrade is 10+ years. Coming in as a DEFO still would mean needing to wait in senority for all the SO above to upgrade before one is able to bid for the command course. In the past the company has chosen not to evaluate the SOs, so they weren't eligible for upgrade, thus enabling direct entry FOs in front of them. Some very experienced SOs were shafted yet again.

Does anyone know if the pilot pool has stabilized since the reopening, or are they still bleeding more pilots then they recruit fast enough. Which may affect the timeline further down the road. I'm still moving up the list at a good rate, the bleeding hasn't stopped.

And does anyone have HKE info on upgrade timeline? If one is willing to make a parallel move?

Thanks

It is impossible for an outsider to understand just how toxic CX is as a company.

Busbuoy

25th Jan 2023, 11:32

It is impossible for an outsider to understand just how toxic CX is as a company.

Some insiders don't seem to understand it either.

SOPS

25th Jan 2023, 11:59

Cathay…..30 years ago it was a pilots dream to get a job with them. What the fxxxk has happened?

ZootBoot

25th Jan 2023, 12:02

We don't have an employment contract. Everything is company policy, which they can alter without notice whenever it suits them. The main reason all the bases were closed is that COS18 wouldn't be remotely legal anywhere but HKG.

This is the biggest issue for anyone coming here and the main reason many of us are queuing up at other opportunities.

2023 saw a pay cut to the conditions of 2022. It is well documented on this forum that COS18 cost people a reduction in earnings of anywhere from 30-60%, depending on their existing contract pre-COVID. Since COS18 was forced upon me, I personally have had a reduction in salary each subsequent year due to the policies. There is zero financial security. Base salary may go up, but productivity goes up further resulting in a net loss overall.

Not to mention the financial penalty of calling in sick, which actually encourages people to take risk in order to pay their rent or feed their family. There is also a financial penalty for being a good pilot. If you are efficient at work getting shortcuts, better levels etc you are rewarded with less pay.

Requests are luck of the draw. I have no idea how the system actually works as it does not do anything like advertised. Even when you get something you asked for, the roster changes and you lose it.

controlledrest

25th Jan 2023, 21:41

Yet, from the looks you're still there? Another one putting others off whilst you stay. I bet you have a thousand reasons why you can't leave :-)

No ********, only one. At the moment due to my passport and conditions in my home country CX is the best job I can currently get, but I am actively working on my exit.

MENELAUS

25th Jan 2023, 23:40

No ********, only one. At the moment due to my passport and conditions in my home country CX is the best job I can currently get, but I am actively working on my exit.

Marry a septic. Or a kiwi.

Babyjet_dododo

26th Jan 2023, 02:30

Not one lie has been said about COS18 and rostering on this thread!

Pre-covid, a person was able to to do back to back long hauls and is able to swing 8- 10 days off afterwards, now min days off with multiple EXB down route and NB days. Obviously all legal according to the company.

Leave will be used as recovery days too, so good luck trying to take a holiday and recover at the same time.

In saying all the above I implore you to join! Why? Because we need as many pilots as possible to help this s**thole of a company take some burden off other crew.

Smallworld

26th Jan 2023, 09:40

So if CX is so short of crew, then shouldn't everyone be working to their max? 80h+? How come there ar people still making minimum guarantee 50h?

How inefficient is the scheduling at CX?

And is there any choice of fleet? If not when at the hiring /gs process do you find out which fleet?

NewLow

26th Jan 2023, 12:34

Choose your fleet any time.

Everyone is flying 80+ hours or minimum hours if you want to commute or travel.

New hosing allowance is great; live in a great place anywhere in the city.

Education and medical allowance are both great too. Your children will grow up healthy and educated.

Come join us, we are the envy of the aviation industry. Pilots and foreigners are made very welcome in Asia’s world city.

Fac6

26th Jan 2023, 13:16

So if CX is so short of crew, then shouldn't everyone be working to their max? 80h+? How come there ar people still making minimum guarantee 50h?

Airbus and 777 guys are not doing much above the threshold at the moment but the 747 guys are making LOTS of $$$$

Babyjet_dododo

26th Jan 2023, 21:06

Airbus and 777 guys are not doing much above the threshold at the moment but the 747 guys are making LOTS of $$$$

You might want to check your facts. WB Airbus pilots are pushing 80-100hrs per month. 777 planes had to be parked due to the lack of qualified crew to operate them.

cxflog

26th Jan 2023, 21:29

You might want to check your facts. WB Airbus pilots are pushing 80-100hrs per month. 777 planes had to be parked due to the lack of qualified crew to operate them.
I wonder where all their 777 STC’s went? It surely isn’t because of COS18 as it’s a “very competitive contract/compensation package” right guys? Guys…?

Babyjet_dododo

26th Jan 2023, 22:29

I wonder where all their 777 STC’s went? It surely isn’t because of COS18 as it’s a “very competitive contract/compensation package” right guys? Guys…?

Well depends on who you ask.

If you ask the company, their official stance is, there are multiple reasons why 777 STC left, it can’t be put down to COS18.

If you ask the pilots themselves, they’ll unequivocally state that COS18 was the primary factor they “Moved Beyond”

cxflog

26th Jan 2023, 22:42

Well depends on who you ask.

If you ask the company, their official stance is, there are multiple reasons why 777 STC left, it can’t be put down to COS18.

If you ask the pilots themselves, they’ll unequivocally state that COS18 was the primary factor they “Moved Beyond”
It was a tongue-in-cheek comment, I should’ve been more clear lol. I left over 6 months ago when the seniority list was breaching the 2300 levels.

CessNah

27th Jan 2023, 02:20

What fleet are majority of the new DEFOs being allocated these days?

Rie

27th Jan 2023, 05:14

What fleet are majority of the new DEFOs being allocated these days?
777 and 350

CessNah

27th Jan 2023, 06:50

777 and 350
The odd 747 or 320 here and there?

Progress Wanchai

27th Jan 2023, 09:26

Yawn! Then stop your complaining. Like I said, always an excuse.

It’s quite interesting. Everyone who stays has an “excuse”. Everyone who leaves has a “reason”.

Have a look around you. The only reason you are where you are is that being there is the best option you have right now. Life is full of combinations and permutations and those reasons are reassessed on a daily basis.

Cathay first screwed new recruits in 1993, telling the legacy crew they wouldn’t ever be affected. Sure enough 1999 produced sign or be fired for legacy crew. Then there was the shameful episode of the 49ers in 2001. Followed by rostering agreements torn up, COS08 with HKPA, COS18, closed bases, sign and be fired again, etc. If the reason you leave Cathay is because of the way it treats its employees then you’re not a student of history and probably not in a position to be giving credible employment advice. The one consistency in this airline is how the company treats its employees.

“Stop your complaining”?? Isn’t that what we come on here to do? Do you leave you partner every time you complain about him/her/it? Just because the reasons for staying outweigh the reasons for leaving doesn’t mean someone has to tolerate the status quo silently.

MENELAUS

27th Jan 2023, 10:27

Nice one.

Smallworld

28th Jan 2023, 03:33

buggaluggs

28th Jan 2023, 22:52

Hi

So do you know find out which fleet you are assigned to with the offer? Or the first day of gs? And is that before the signing of the bond. And if you are already type on a fleet will they still bond you?

Thanks

I think you’re mistaking Cathay for an airline that actually knows what they’re doing SW! At CX the training plan is produced afresh every weekday morning at 09:30, amended 4 times before lunch and filed ‘ in the round file ‘ around 16:30!
If you’re angling at accepting an offer contingent on being assigned to a particular fleet, you’re dreaming, I know personally guys who’ve been pulled off courses just before base training ( the final stage before line training) for a fleet change!
The company will put you where they want you at their sole discretion, some will be lucky, others will end up on the 747! And no, there is no facility to bid to another fleet, EVER! Sounds great doesn’t it!

Buggs

Rie

29th Jan 2023, 07:28

The odd 747 or 320 here and there?
74 yes but all the 320 rated are going across to the 350. It's where demand is needed

TechCrew

29th Jan 2023, 16:19

R u by any chance from Brazil? If yes, super quick cmd in supersonic speed! If not, hopefully u speak Portuguese or French, will be double quick. Else pls be a FO in HKE FOrever. :ugh:

Thank you all for the info.

And does anyone have HKE info on upgrade timeline? If one is willing to make a parallel move?

Thanks

Arrowhead

31st Jan 2023, 12:07

https://pilotcareercenter.com/Pilot-Job-Posting-Pilot-Opening-Pilot-Job/17986/Asia/Direct-Entry-Pilot/Former-Cathay-Employee---VHHH/Cathay-Pacific-Airways

Rie

31st Jan 2023, 14:55

https://pilotcareercenter.com/Pilot-Job-Posting-Pilot-Opening-Pilot-Job/17986/Asia/Direct-Entry-Pilot/Former-Cathay-Employee---VHHH/Cathay-Pacific-Airways
Good luck, unless they offer COS08+ they won't get a single soul. Most have moved over to EK/EY, States on an E3 or back home by now with zero intention to return

Starbear

31st Jan 2023, 19:20

[url]https://pilotcareercenter.com/Pilot-Job-Posting-Pilot-Opening-Pilot-Job/17986/Asia/Direct-Entry-Pilot/Former-Cathay-Employee---VHHH/Cathay-Pacific-Airways (tel:11377408)

the final line in the application details is brilliant!

PCC FORBIDS charging pilots to Apply or Train. Notify us if asked to pay.

NewLow

1st Feb 2023, 09:17

I see a captain recently came out of retirement and got to keep his seniority number. If anyone is insane enough to come back be sure to ask for the same.

BusyB

2nd Feb 2023, 09:56

Who is going to believe any contract they offer will be honoured??

Oasis

2nd Feb 2023, 10:24

They will receive the same loyalty they provide.

It is a two way street.

Progress Wanchai

3rd Feb 2023, 04:10

Who is going to believe any contract they offer will be honoured??

B scale in 1993.
Sign or be fired in 1999.
49ers in 2001.
Adelaide instructors in 2010.
Rostering practices removed in 2015.
For a decade bases being illegally closed resulting in numerous fines.
Sign or be fired in 2020.

What did you believe when you joined?

DC1996

6th Feb 2023, 01:43

I remember when they did the "ring around" to all the Aussie Pilots, telling them everything was going to be OK, your job is safe and we are already working on sims etc to get you back flying, don't worry. Then emailed a month later saying you are fired.

cxflog

12th Feb 2023, 17:42

Any DEFO recently got a call for interview ?

I received an email asking me to fill out a form with my hours and training details but ever since that it has been compete silence .

any take on that ?
Take it as a blessing and run the other way. If the content on these forums doesn’t scare you you’ll be in for a world of hurt moving to HK to join the skeleton that used to be CX.

LootedfromCPA

13th Feb 2023, 15:19

B scale in 1993.
Sign or be fired in 1999.
49ers in 2001.
Adelaide instructors in 2010.
Rostering practices removed in 2015.
For a decade bases being illegally closed resulting in numerous fines.
Sign or be fired in 2020.

What did you believe when you joined?

what's the context with the adelaide instructors in 2010?

hkgcanuck

14th Feb 2023, 00:06

what's the context with the adelaide instructors in 2010?

They were hired with the caveat that they would spend time instructing in Adelaide before coming to Hong Kong. They were meant to gain seniority during that time and join on B-scale. Instead the company put them to the bottom of the list and offered C-scale.

mngmt mole

14th Feb 2023, 04:47

Another one of many shameful incidents. One of the instructors was the son of a long time Senior Check and Training Captain, a man who had gone out of his way for the company over many years. The betrayal of his son was a small insight into the completely immoral management that permeates the airline to this day. Too many other incidents to name, but this one was grossly offensive, as it involved so few people and to have honoured their word would have been of no consequence. Instead, CX management once again proved how odious they are.