Where are the new pilots going to come from???

[ryan]

I remember when I was about 9 years old, on my first airliner trip, visiting the cockpit in flight. I think this is one of the reasons why I chose to pursue a career as a pilot.

Now that flight deck visits have been banned, what are peoples views on how we should get young people interested in aviation?

No comments like "aviation already has too many people"...... don't forget, the new young people are going to be paying our pensions in retirement!!!

Does anyone think the new rules will ever be relaxed? My thoughts are: Now we have lost it we will never see it again!

Hopefully this may promote some good ideas?

Cheers.....

[Airbubba]

>>Now that flight deck visits have been banned, what are peoples views on how we should get young people interested in aviation?<<

Flight deck visits have been banned in the U.S. for many years, we've now got a surplus of pilots, can we send you some?

[A300Man]

A simple - yet perhaps expensive option would be to have limited cockpit overviews on the IFE system.

United I believe have a channel called "Live from the Cockpit", or something similar. I don't know of other carriers who do.

Emirates are one carrier (there are others) who have cameras fitted to the exterior of their 777's. This can be viewed (in rather poor quality albeit) on the personal IFE screens at every seat.

Both of the above would be a nice interesting touch for enthusiasts on flights, especially the cockpit channel. (Obviously it does not include chatter between the two pilots. That would be fun.)

The only problem is that the most exciting time of any fligh is during take off, and approach for landing etc. At these points in the flight, the crew have already collected the head-sets for safety reasons!!!!

Still, its better than nothing.

[clipstone]

Yep it's a shame that the authorities don't realise that banning flight deck visits obviously had no affect on Sept 11th, so is a totally pointless anti-PR exercise.

[moggie]

RTO - there may be plenty of pilots but how many of them will be acceptable to airlines? Holding a licence does not necessarily make you an airline pilot - just as having a driving licence does not make you Michael Schumacher (Dario Franchitti for the US!).

[Palma de Mallorca]

A300Man,

I am amazed to see you posting here. Thought that if it didn't involve Qatar Airways, then you weren't interested.

However, I must admit, that you suggestion above is not totally a bad one!

In conclusion though, have to agree with the comments above from Tibesti and Moggie.

[R308R]

I used to think that flight deck visists were a great PR tool. Many passengers that visited my flight deck commented that it was the highlight of their trip, for some even the highpoint of a holiday. Flight Deck visits enabled me to answer many questions that the travelling public have and explain briefly what we actually do. The amount of people that have asked,"so can you land the aroplane manually if the autopilot fails?" were often surprised to discover that we do a lot of manual flying.

For many pilots of my generation we are pilots because we were facinated by flying. Many newer pilots in my company see flying as a career, with the thought of doing it for a while then moving on to another career or as a fast track into the managment scene.

With less airshows, more general air travelling, no flight deck visits, other fashionable careers such as IT, media, etc I do not know how youngsters of the future will be attracted. However I remember that 35000 people applied for 200 sponsorship places when I applied, I am sure that their will always be applicants though maybe not inthe same numbers.

[maxrpm]

When I started flying for the airlines my cockpit used to have 8 levers in the middle 5 dozen clocks in front and on the roof, countless swichtes, lights, handels, whees and knobs. The yokes housed en-route maps.
Over the years all the beautiful gadgets faded. Now its down to 2 levers and 6 TV Screens showing less switches than the remote controll those kids are used to.
Impressed? You think they are?

[N380UA]

R308R

For many pilots of my generation we are pilots because we were facinated by flying. Many newer pilots in my company see flying as a career, with the thought of doing it for a while then moving on to another career or as a fast track into the managment scene

Too right, although I think to be much younger then you. Flying is no career, is a lifestyle.

Maxrpm

When I started flying for the airlines my cockpit used to have 8 levers in the middle 5 dozen clocks in front and on the roof, countless swichtes, lights, handels, whees and knobs. The yokes housed en-route maps.

That goes along the same way as the above, and yet; yes I still want to fly.
Don’t know how impressed I am about flying a computer whilst being cr@ped on by the management though.

What is a pilot today?

Well, just about the as much a bus driver down town for the most of the pax I’m afraid.

I think that ryans question is legit. Even if bubba sees is differently.

[JULIET WHISKEY]

Given the Uselessness of an ATPL licence in any other industry I suspect that people are now cautious as to what they are qualified to do if they lose their Airline job....

Too specialised an area ,your qualified to do nothing else really.

Earn better money in other industries, and fly recreationally

[Capt.KAOS]

A300M:
I loved that image from the camera in front of the 777 (CX in my case). Could see everything from pushing back to landing and arriving at the gate. Unfortunately the landing was @ Chek Lap Kok, viewing the approach to Kai Tak would have been spectacular (would I've seen the chequered board in the mountains?).

Cheers

CApt.kaOS

[Rynopilot]

Previous to September 11th Canada was one of the few countries that allowed PAX to occupy the jumpseat. It has now followed in the paths of other contrives strictly prohibiting visits all together. In my opinion if a terrorist was determined to enter the cockpit he/she would find a way regardless of any laws or regulations.

When I started flying for the airlines my cockpit used to have 8 levers in the middle 5 dozen clocks in front and on the roof, countless swichtes, lights, handels, whees and knobs. The yokes housed en-route maps.

I think the automation and computerized flight decks will actually benefit the next generation of pilots, they are growing up in this so called "computer generation."

[GlueBall]

Before the big crash at ORD in 1979, AA had closed circuit TV cameras in its DC10s as part of pax entertainment feature. Before and after the inflight movie, pax would watch the takeoff and landing on the big screen.:cool:

[Jet II]

I'm afraid that I cannot see any evidence of a pilot shortage - I have never known so many guys (and girls) who one day decide to be a pilot, put there money (or bank loans) where there mouths are, get the training and get a job with a major airline.

In fact I think that with the abundance of ever cheaper flight training schools and the increase in students from the third world (where in places like India there are millions of highly educated people who are desperate for jobs), there will not be any shortage for many years.

:)

[18-Wheeler]

Yep, the question is not where they're going to come from, but more like where are they going to go?

[411A]

Jet II
Make that...no shortage, ever.

Those that think otherwise are dreaming.

[Tibesti 3415]

There has never been a shortage of pilots, and there will never
be a shortage of pilots in the future, the airlines and flightschools claim there will be a shortage or there is an existing shortage of pilots, the airlines wants a large selection of qualified candidates and the flightschools wants your money, its simple as that.

[Canadiankid]

The term pilot shortage has to be re-defined. The term nursing shortage is common here in Canada. The government can easily tell the demographics of the nursing proffession by the number of people training to be nurses. The prediction as it stands:shortages of a critical level in the near future.

Shortage of pilots??? I don't think so. There may be a "lack of surplus" in the next ten years. The fact of the matter the baby boom generation is starting to retire. A friend of mine who flys for Air Canada says that the airline will essentially replace it's entire current roster of pilot's (3000) over the next 10-15 years. This is common with many airlines worldwide. Compare this to the 80's and early 90's when there was almost ZERO movement, things will be good. Ironically the lack of hiring in the 80's etc. is the main cause of the demographic shift.

What does this mean? More jobs in the future for aspiring airline pilots. Probably depending on the carrier you end up with, a much shorter time to the left seat than days of past.

My two cents, as much as they are worth.

[GS-Alpha]

I am a pilot and I never visited a flight deck before I joined the company. I don't think flight deck visits are a deciding factor in a young person's career really.

Besides, the industry is being devalued at such a rate that parents will soon start discouraging their kids from being pilots anyway.

The fact is, if you gotta fly, you gotta fly...

[Seriph]

So the future of the industry is dependant upon wanabees visiting the flight deck. Well I would have been a surgeon if visiting the theatre was allowed.

[Ignition Override]

We have not had open cockpits enroute over the US for over 30 years or so, except for regular Fedex employees who could jumpseat on their company flights and visit cockpits before 9/11, or an airline ferry flight under general aviation rules (Part 91), which can allow a family member onboard to observe through the open cockpit door ; so the question has little meaning here, except for visits at the gate.

When I was in college in the mid 70s, a US Navy P-3 visited a nearby airport and several of us were allowed to sit on the hard floor near the ASW gear, far from the cockpit, as just one of Naval Aviation's recruiting methods.

This ride on the floor listening to those four loud Allison T-56 engines (spinning large props at 1,021 rpm) did nothing at all to interest me in flying, being able to see only the back of the Flight Engineer while bouncing around the pattern in springtime winds. The Navy Squadron or Wing should have allowed groups of two or so to take turns in the cockpit for short periods, and planned flights at a higher, more relaxed altitude (above 10,000') on a short cross-country flight.

[OPEN CLB]

Probably we won't be seeing a shortage of licensed pilots within the next few years. BUT what some airlines are already seeing now is a almost threatning shortage of qualified candidates.
Take the situation in Germany. On the one side pilot schools are churning out record numbers of new pilots, must of them headed directly for unemployment. On the other side Lufthansa is not able to fill its annual demand from the school at Bremen. The school has the capacity to train sufficient numbers of people. But classes even had to be cancelled due to the lack of students. Why? The number of applicants for the initial screening has been dropping lightly over the last few years, but the number of those making it through the screening has dropped dramatically. As someone already mentioned, aviation careers aren't desirable anymore,leading to lack of interest from the young generation. Blame it mostly on short termed greed commonly known as shareholder value, bloating the importance of quarterly profits over long term profitability.
Other airlines are starting to get into the same problems of not being able to attract sufficiently qualified candidates, some are still ignoring it due to a current (short termed) overstaffing, others are already hurting their business opportunities due to capacity constraints. With congestion in the skies due to grow again, demands on qualification will rise, due to the pressure to keep quality (SAFETY) at the same overall numbers (actually it will be increasing with the number of movements going up). The current scheme of private enterprises (pilot schools) luring aspirants into a financial desaster without telling them the truth about their future chances will eventually kill the industry. IMHO we will be seeing the rebirth of sponsorship schemes, as bean counters will sooner or later figure out that a reasonable investment into the future will help keep future costs and losses due to public safety perception low. It all comes down to how much does a hull loss cost and how many can I afford before it affects my balance sheet.

[OPEN CLB]

@RTO
should have explained it a little better. "Qualified" doesn't apply to those fools who try to get a job by not only paying their ATPL, but even for their typerating. With "qualified" I mean those who make it through the strict and demanding screenings of the still respected majors, operating to superior standards.
This is where the gap is widening. Some still think they have to "buy" themselves into a job. Currently a lot of airlines are eagerly picking up these people as they are dirt cheap. Fly for food, typerating paid. CRM capabilities, social thinking, multiple tasking....why ask, he simply doesn't cost the airline money.
But exactly this developement is going to hit back sooner or later. More and more will be discouraged from picking up cockpit careers, due to the burdensome financing of the entire training. JAR-FCL won't make it cheaper. But those scavenging on free meals today will be the first to whine......