Last ever 747 has left the factory

[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/boeingairplanes/status/1600371756627554319?s=61&t=E4bbsJy7Y8AQGPpUmqj2oA


The last 747 has left the Everett factory ahead of delivery to Atlas Air in early 2023.

[cavuman1]

Pearl Harbor/747 day. A date not to be forgotten.

- Ed

[tdracer]

The end of 747 production is rather bittersweet for me. I spent a good portion of my career working the 747, and my work on the 747-8/8F was probably the crowning achievement of that career.
It was more than a little frustrating to see the 747-8 be something less than successful (155 built). While I believe there is still a market for the 747-8F, that market is simply too limited to make continued production profitable.

[megan]

td, to what extent are airframe bits held as spares for out of production types, say if an operator suddenly needs a wing plank for some reason, can see why it might be a build to order.

[SaulGoodman]

The end of 747 production is rather bittersweet for me. I spent a good portion of my career working the 747, and my work on the 747-8/8F was probably the crowning achievement of that career.
It was more than a little frustrating to see the 747-8 be something less than successful (155 built). While I believe there is still a market for the 747-8F, that market is simply too limited to make continued production profitable.

Boeing made the decision to close the production line already before covid in order to open up other production lines. I’m sure that if they would have been able to keep it open they would in the current cargo market. Were it not that the suppliers have also changed to work on parts for newer aircraft.

These -8F’s have to work for the next 30 years as there is no other nose loading capacity. The AN’s are very old and the C17’s are too limited in paylod and too expensive imo.

[Less Hair]

Looking back, they closed it too early, now that cargo airlines are healthy and ready to spend again. How long can conventional 777 freighters be ordered and made before the gap until the -8F certification and availability? Second hand 777-300ER might be the future converted freighter of choice.

[SaulGoodman]

Looking back, they closed it too early, now that cargo airlines are healthy and ready to spend again. How long can conventional 777 freighters be ordered and made before the gap until the -8F certification and availability? Second hand 777-300ER might be the future converted freighter of choice.

My guess is that Boeing will throw have to provide some 777 converted freighters to 777-XF clients to bridge the gap between 747-400F’s and 777-XF. Any further delays could make the A350F an interesting proposition

[Lonewolf_50]

I remember the first time I got to fly on one of those: 1974, heading to Tokyo on a red eye out of Honolulu. (Dad was getting assigned to the Far East and brought the family with him ...).

[BFSGrad]

When the 747 was introduced to Dulles Airport, the existing mobile lounges (aka, “people movers”) were unable to mate with the 747’s elevated entry doors so passengers would be deposited half-way up an air stair and had to walk the rest of the way to board, emphasizing the 747’s majestic stance. The eventual solution was to introduce a telescoping mobile lounge that could accommodate both narrow and wide-body aircraft.

[FUMR]

In order to get a ride in a B747 (I couldn't afford long haul then) I flew with Pan Am from Brussels to Amsterdam, with an (low speed) aborted take-off thrown in! (It was a minor problem and we got airborne on the 2nd attempt).

[DaveReidUK]

While Boeing have a growing list of decisions they have made and subsequently regretted, I don't think that closing the 747 line will turn out to be one of them.

[Big Pistons Forever]

The last 747 has left the Everett factory ahead of delivery to Atlas Air in early 2023.

Emblematic of a company with only a history instead of a future....

[tdracer]

td, to what extent are airframe bits held as spares for out of production types, say if an operator suddenly needs a wing plank for some reason, can see why it might be a build to order.

I don't think they keep much in the way of major structural pieces available as spares. When the aircraft is still in production, it's pretty straight forward to simply make another bit - but once OOP the tooling and such is all gone. If someone needs sort of major structural part, the options are to have one custom made, get a 'used' part from a scraped aircraft, or to simply scrap the damaged aircraft.

Boeing made the decision to close the production line already before covid in order to open up other production lines. I’m sure that if they would have been able to keep it open they would in the current cargo market. Were it not that the suppliers have also changed to work on parts for newer aircraft.

These -8F’s have to work for the next 30 years as there is no other nose loading capacity. The AN’s are very old and the C17’s are too limited in paylod and too expensive imo.

Boeing's biggest problem with the 747-8F was competing against retired 747-400 freighter conversions - freight operators could buy a passenger 747-400 for a song and convert it into a freighter for a small fraction of what a new 747-8F cost. Eventually most of those 747-400s would have aged out, but the 747 airframe is easily good for well over 100,000 hours (especially if it's mainly used for long haul so the cycles are relatively low) so that would have taken a long time.
I think Boeing needed to be building 747s at a rate of at least one/month for it to be profitable - and the 747 wasn't there since about 2018 (six/year - which is at best breakeven). The final nail was when the vendor that made the fuselage panels shut down the factory where they made them (the last few years of 747 production have used panels that were 'built ahead' before they shutdown the facility). While Boeing was offered the tooling and such, to continue production would have required a major investment in setting it all in a new facility Boeing couldn't justify the expense - especially with a one/month production rate or less.

Although I do keep hearing about a story I heard when they ended 747-400 production to prepare for the 747-8. It seems Boeing had a bunch of open production slots for the 747-400 prior to the shutdown that they wanted to fill, so they went out and offered a good price on 'last time buy' for 747-400F. Well, the response was overwhelming - reportedly they could have sold many, many more if they'd had production slots. I have to wonder if, now that no more new 747s will be build, freight operators will suddenly wish they'd bought a whole bunch more.

BTW, Boeing did look at a commercial variant to the C-17. Apparently the interest was rather underwhelming, and the costs associated with certifying to Part 25 would have been massive, so the idea was dropped.

[JRK]

All things have to end sooner or later, but we should be happy to see some 8's and some 400F's still grace the skies for at least another decade.

[dixi188]

All things have to end sooner or later, but we should be happy to see some 8's and some 400F's still grace the skies for at least another decade.
I think some late build 747s will be around for at least 20 and maybe 30 or 40 years. They may even outlast the B52.
The only airliner that has been in production longer is the Boeing 737.

[punkalouver]

OK....

List the airlines that you have personally flown on with 747.

Air Canada
CP Air
Japan Air Lines
EVA Air
Pan Am
TWA
Air France
Royal Air Maroc (747SP)
Aerolineas Argentinas

[Big Pistons Forever]

Air Canada
WardAir
United Airlines
Lufthansa
British Airways

What was the shortest and longest scheduled 747 flight ?
I am guessing the shortest was Wardair YYJ to YVR 34 nm.

[andycba]

BA
SAA
Virgin
United
Pan Am
Malaysian
Singapore
Lufthansa
KLM
Korean

[Koan]

OK....

List the airlines that you have personally flown on with 747.

Air Canada
CP Air
Japan Air Lines
EVA Air
Pan Am
TWA
Air France
Royal Air Maroc (747SP)
Aerolineas Argentinas

UA
NW
Asiana
NH (Maybe, -400D)
JL
TG
NH
BR
CI
CX

Too young to remember for sure

Pan Am
TWA

[megan]

Shortest flight was in a -400 over 381nm as the crow flies, scrambled from take off to FL410 like a scalded cat, most impressive.

[Old Carthusian]

OK I'll bite

British Airways
Lufthansa
Air China (SP)
All Nippon (SR)
All Nippon -400
Cathay Pacific
Korean
Asiana
Singapore
United

[B Fraser]

An interesting question

TWA
AA
BA
Cathay
Singapore
Malaysian including LHR to Lankawi direct
Qantas (inc upstairs !!)
Air NZ
Fiji Airways
United
Virgin

I may have missed a few.

[Less Hair]

PA TWA BA AF SIA LH KAL KLM UA Air China

[Sneezy24]

Not many for me:

BA
Cathay
Virgin

[happybiker]

For me
BA
Cathay Pacific
TWA
Singapore Airlines
Malaysian
Virgin
Air New Zealand

[ZFT]

BOAC/BA
Iraqi Airways
Air Atlanta
SAA
SIA
Cathay Pacific
Air China
ANZ
Garuda
Swissair
KLM
Varig
Thai Airways
Qantas
MAS
United
EVA
Asiana
Lufthansa
British Asia

[Bergerie1]

Aaaaah!! BOAC

[Colours389]

BA
Virgin
TWA
KLM
Canadian
Air Europe (Air Europa?) from LGW. Leased Pan Am aircraft to Puerto Plata. An interesting destination, the climb up the steps seemed like scaling Everest. As for the baggage reclaim, that’s another story! Circa 1988/1989.

[uxb99]

As a passenger the 747 was probably the worst aircraft I ever flew on. 1998. Continental London to Philly (iirc). The aircraft was old, cold, noisy and antiquated. The earphones where just hollow tubes.
Having said that as an enthusiast it's my favourite aircraft. Great noise. Great look. A beautiful aircraft.

[brianj]

Went to Jamaica on an Aer Lingus one leased to Air Jamaica

[SJR71]

Sounds like europe !!!!!!!!

[sb_sfo]

Best 747 flight- UA ORD-SFO Christmas Day 1980. Cabin crew outnumbered pax, and I took the 750 ml liquor bottles in the upper deck bar as a personal challenge.
Worst 747 flight- SABENA BRU-JFK in 1974. Waiting in BRU for the return to the US, announcements said about an hour delay when the equipment hadn't left JFK yet. When finally airborne, found out potable water hadn't been serviced, before we knew you shouldn't drink it.

[tdracer]

OK, not including various Boeing related flight tests and ferry flights on 747s:
TWA (two of the most horrible flights I've ever had on a 'Western' airline)
United
Pan Am (got upgraded to First Class - the most incredible meal experience ever in the air)
British Airways
Singapore
Korean
EVA
Malaysian

[dixi188]

SABENA = Such A Bad Experience Never Again!

[Trinity 09L]

Pan Am, BOAC (staff travel to SYD return), BA, Virgin, JAL, Air India (LHR - JFK)

[Asturias56]

"As a passenger the 747 was probably the worst aircraft I ever flew on"

You clearly never spent hours in a crowded 707............

[Less Hair]

Tight seating A300B, DC-10 and 767 could be much worse.

[ATC Watcher]

Besides the "standard airlines" as pax , I had the pleasure to jumpseat a few times on B747-200F ( Martinair ) and 747SP ( China airlines , LAX-TPE the direct flight when you lost one day on the trip .) and a few years ago a surprie jumpseat on the Iran Air 747SP , due to an AOG on one of their A300. One of the oldest 747 still flying at the time ( they only retired it very recently if I am not msitaken ) . While 747 cockpits were noisy and very small compared to other wide bodies of that era ( e.g. DC10 and L-1011, ) jumseating on them was a real pleasure because of the huge space avail behind the cockipt , usually equipped with a bar/galley and (old) first class seats .

[Zombywoof]

"As a passenger the 747 was probably the worst aircraft I ever flew on"

You clearly never spent hours in a crowded 707............ Or a crowded DC-8.

The AC 747 between YYZ and YVR was wonderful. Now you'll do the same 4hrs trip in a jam packed narrow body. That's progress. :mad:

[lederhosen]

BA (first flights BOAC)
Singapore
Qantas
Japan Airlines
TWA
Thai
Air France
KLM
Lufthansa
Virgin
Probably forgotten a few, but memorable were the upgrades sitting at the very front on BA and Singapore. Anyone who considers them bad from a passenger perspective is an outlier although I accept the middle of a row at the back would not be ideal.

[uxb99]

"As a passenger the 747 was probably the worst aircraft I ever flew on"

You clearly never spent hours in a crowded 707............
I'm not old enough.

[The Ancient Geek]

I'm not old enough.

"As a passenger the 747 was probably the worst aircraft I ever flew on"

You clearly never spent hours in a crowded 707............

SAA 707 LHR - JNB 1970
Packed solid. Struggling into the air after refuelling at Ilha da Sal, climbing out due to the curvature of the earth.
Those were the days.

[Dave]

Shortest flight was in a -400 over 381nm as the crow flies, scrambled from take off to FL410 like a scalded cat, most impressive.

My shortest was Gatwick to Heathrow (yes really).... about 22 nm in a straight line.... bit longer with a SID and vectored ILS ;)

Still miss the 744!!!

[MATELO]

6 Year old youngster at Newcastle Airport, a visit from a 747 in around '77.

Started my love affair with planes, still going strong till this day. Still remember the grace as it took off over the Newcastle Upon Tyne skies.

Wonderful.

[Ancient Mariner]

I love the Queen, travelled Economy, Business and First.
BA, Lufthansa, KLM, CAAC, Cathay, Singapore, Malaysian, Philippine Air, NorthWest, JAL, Air France and probably one or two I've forgott.
Sorely missed, unless I'll go via Luftie again.
Per

[fire wall]

Shortest flight Macau to Hong Kong and / or Zuhai to Hong Kong, both much the same
Straight line is 17 nm but obviously ......
Privledged to have flown her, steam dials and glass.

[WillowRun 6-3]

I seem to recall a hop in fall 1972 between Chicago ORD and Detroit DTW on an American Airlines 747.
Also, a little more distance, El Al JFK to Tel Aviv, circa 1991.

[Pearly White]

BA QF PanAm TWA SQ MAS ANA JAL ANZ Garuda and best of all.... ANSETT (SYD-KIX or YSSY-RJBB)

[Anilv]

Really appreciate that I managed to work on practically all models of 747s except the 747-8 and -8f. This includes, -100, -200, -300, -400, SPs, Combis and freighters. Functions include ramp-loading, loadsheet, pax handling.

One notable oddity was a cargo charter operated by an IRIAF (Islamic Republic Iran Air Force) 747 freighter. This was a 747 air-tanker which had cargo capability... imagine my surprise when I went on board and found positions SL/SR and T were given over to the boom operator. Also this aircraft came with mil spec pallets... 88 X 108inches and not the more usual 88/96 x 125inch pallets. While the aircraft locks were configured for these pallets, the pallet nets themselves could not accomodate the full height of 118inches as the nets would only go up to around 70 inches. As the charterer had expected a 747 load, they were a bit upset as there was a lot of space wasted due to the smaller footprint of the pallet and lowered heights. We managed to squeeze a bit more load (increase the height) onto the pallets by using normal ropes to make up the shortfall of the nets.. The mil spec pallet do not use rings/seatrack like normal pallets but are tied down to d-rings along the edge. This would be in the early 90s.

Anilv

[Asturias56]

"I'm not old enough."

;)

[Asturias56]

"RIAF (Islamic Republic Iran Air Force) 747 freighter. "

IIRC they had a dodgy safety record - one exploded after a lightning strike??

[Bergerie1]

It seems odd to me that so little on this thread has been written from the pilot's point of view about the flying qualities of the 747.

I first flew it in 1981, and it was my third large jet transport, the previous two being the VC10 and the 707. Both in their ways excellent aircraft but not as magnificent as the 747. It was not just its size that made it so. In contrast to the various earlier types of jet transports, which all had some handling vices, the 747 had none. And, again, in contrast to the earlier types, it had more system redundancy than any of them. Its handling was exceptional, the only vice that I could find (if it was a vice at all) was that the nose wheel could skate along the surface if one tried to turn when taxiing at too fast a speed.

It was very stable to fly, was an excellent instrument flying platform, yet had sufficiently powerful controls to handle in a sprightly fashion like a much smaller aircraft. In fact, when seated in the snug cockpit it was hard to believe there was so much aircraft following along behind! And, with the cockpit being so small, everything was within easy reach. Perhaps it could have done with a little more headroom but who was I to complain.

I spent 14 years flying it on long haul routes and was privileged to be IRE/TRE and airworthiness test qualified. It was during C of A air tests that one really became able to appreciate its exceptional handling qualities. It stalled immaculately in all configurations, except when clean – when it wouldn’t stall at all! The minimum speed had been defined by the point when the slow and stately buffeting was considered unacceptable. One would have had to be very ham-fisted to come anywhere near the stall speed. Unlike the 707, it had no Mach tuck, even at M0.97. Unlike the VC10, it had no pronounced Dutch Roll. And, unlike most T-tail aircraft, there was no concern over it becoming locked into a deep stall. It was also very gentlemanly on three engines and would even perform well with two failed on the same side.

It was a truly wonderful aircraft to fly, all the more remarkable when one remembers how long ago it was designed.

Joe Sutter and his team got it absolutely right.

[dixi188]

I guess it was quite a pilot's aircraft.
I remember arriving in Muscat as SLF and we did a visual approach from the west to runway 26. We rolled wings level over the end of the runway and touched down a few seconds later.
Performance of the 100 srs was a bit limited in high temps. Normally the BA flights came through MCT around 0100 to 0300 local. If delayed and departing after around 1000 local, a tech stop would be required to get to London. One was sitting on the end of the runway burning off fuel for about 20 mins. as the temp rose to get down to RTOW. A lot of sand blowing around.

[Piper_Driver]

The nicest long haul flight I’ve ever had was on a 747SP from Taipei to Los Angeles. I flew business class in the upper deck. There were three other pax and a relief crew with me. It was the quietest ride I’ve ever had and the food served was of gourmet quality. This was back in the 1980s when flying was a completely different experience.

[happybiker]

It was a truly wonderful aircraft to fly, all the more remarkable when one remembers how long ago it was designed.
Joe Sutter and his team got it absolutely right.

It was a remarkable achievement in a relatively short time frame including the building of a new factory for production. First flight in early 1969 and certified by the end of the year ! How does that compare with some of the protracted aircraft certification timescales today.

Dai Davies the ARB/CAA chief test pilot in his book "Handling the Big Jets" said "The 747 is a most impressive aeroplane with a number of exceptionally fine qualities". He was not wrong as proved by its long and distinguished service

[Mr Mac]

747 Airlines for me as follows in no order and with approx. numbers where I can remember :-
Swiss Air - 4 times
PAN AM - Approx. 6
TWA - Approx. 6 - mostly L1011 for my trips.
KLM - Around 4
BA - Lots
Lufthansa - still flying on them with LH 747 -8 - lots
Malaysian - Four times - like B Fraser did Langkawi return
JAL - Maybe 6
Singapore - Lots
American - only once, mostly DC10 for me
Wardair - only once
Air Canada - only once
CP Air - only once
SAA - Twice
Air France - Twice
Cathay - Lots
NW Orient - Lots
Peoples Express - Once as a student back in the day.

A nice A/C but I honestly prefer A380 as a passenger.

Cheers
Mr Mac

[paulross]

Some 747 memories, as SLF:

In the 1970s I was at school west of Heathrow. In summer the early 747s could not make the airways climb gradient westbound fully loaded. The CAA dropped the airway lower limit from, I think 3500 feet, to 2500 feet to allow them to stagger off over the Atlantic. We got to see them up close!
Prior to the 747-400 there was a secret sleeping compartment in economy. The very last centre row of five seats was set slightly forward of the bulkhead (to allow them to tilt). You could take a couple of blankets and a pillow and lie on the floor across that two foot gap behind those seats in full stretch comfort. Much used by me on cross Pacific flights, and a lot cheaper than business.
Around 20 years ago (I think) The Economist newspaper published its list of "The Seven Wonders of the Modern World". One was: the most complex mass produced machine. It was the 747.

So I salute all the people that designed, worked on or crewed the 747.

[pax britanica]

Thanksgiving 1971 BA501? LHR JFK Staff (dependent) travel and my first flight on BOACs flagship 747 . I didnt know then how often I would end up cursing the endless night of HKG-LHR or SIn LHR on business trips. Not the 74s fault a lovely plane eclipsed ( personal view only by the Tristar and ), really by some distance, the A380 which is really in a league of its own when it comes to pax experience -in my view anyway. I never though the triple 7 flew as nicely from the back seats as the 74

Never flew a 300 or an SP but lots on the others -I suppose hours wise in the end the 400 was what i flew on most with a lot of London-Asia busienss travel.

As far as I can remember 14 Airlines not counting BOAC.
Aer Lingus 100 JFK-SNN-DUB Pretty old but with wonderful cabin crew, like flying a Dublin pub across the Atlantic , CC knew many of the pax by name
Air Canada 100
Air France 100 First 400 First (both very nice indeed)./ The 100 was Beijing to CDG and had to fly a huge circle back over the field to gain height to get across the mountains north of Beijing. Following year on the 400 no problem at all.
BA 100, 200 400 My first ever flight, as above, First on a 400 a couple of times to/from BDA , HKG and JBG ( LHR-JBG over night and back the next night, fortuneately that was F both ways.) . . Lots of great RWY 13 Chequer board approaches into Kai Tak
Canadian 400
Cathay 200 and 400
Lufthansa 400-- worst 747 trip last row of seats in Biz -didnt recline former prison camp cabin crew
Malaysian 400 lovely trips nice food and smiling , for real , crew shame they seem to have gone downhill.
Pan Am 100 including the best call sign ever 'Clipper One' Westbound around the world Hong Kong Delhi Frankfurt LHR
Qantas 400
Singapore 400
TWA 100
Virgin 400
United 100

Looking back I wonder how many days i spent on this wonderful aircraft and I am graately to the builders and crews of tis truly wonderful piece of engineerign that literally took me around the world to places I never dreamed,. as kid grwoing up right next to LHR, that i would ever see .

Would todays Boeing management have taken such a gigantic gamble??.

[DaveReidUK]

Really appreciate that I managed to work on practically all models of 747s except the 747-8 and -8f. This includes, -100, -200, -300, -400, SPs, Combis and freighters. Functions include ramp-loading, loadsheet, pax handling.

One notable oddity was a cargo charter operated by an IRIAF (Islamic Republic Iran Air Force) 747 freighter. This was a 747 air-tanker which had cargo capability... imagine my surprise when I went on board and found positions SL/SR and T were given over to the boom operator. Also this aircraft came with mil spec pallets... 88 X 108inches and not the more usual 88/96 x 125inch pallets. While the aircraft locks were configured for these pallets, the pallet nets themselves could not accomodate the full height of 118inches as the nets would only go up to around 70 inches. As the charterer had expected a 747 load, they were a bit upset as there was a lot of space wasted due to the smaller footprint of the pallet and lowered heights. We managed to squeeze a bit more load (increase the height) onto the pallets by using normal ropes to make up the shortfall of the nets.. The mil spec pallet do not use rings/seatrack like normal pallets but are tied down to d-rings along the edge. This would be in the early 90s.

Interesting post on a little-known aspect of 747 operations. Thanks for that.

Though of course hearing about all the airlines' 747s that assorted PPRuNers have flown on is equally fascinating.

[India Four Two]

Following on from Bergerie1's post, this interview with D.P. Davies, former CAA Chief Test Pilot, is very informative. The first 33 minutes discusses the 747:

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/audio-the-d-p-davies-interview-on-the-boeing-747-the-trident-vc10-one-eleven-the-boeing-727/https://www.aerosociety.com/news/audio-the-d-p-davies-interview-on-the-boeing-747-the-trident-vc10-one-eleven-the-boeing-727/


Having spent so many years arguing with Boeing over their aeroplanes, particularly all the 707s and most particularly of the 727, it was an enormous relief to me to fly the 74 and conclude at the end, that apart from one small point, it was by miles, the best aeroplane I had ever flown.


The rest of the interview is also worthwhile, particularly the last ten minutes!

[longer ron]

I used to quite like flying on the 747 :) (as much as you can on a large pax jet)
Definitely a much better experience than DC8 or 707,I normally just travelled cattle class as the difference in price to upgrade quite often paid for the rest of the holiday,my favourite seat was down near the back where the fuse was tapering in - there were just 2 seats in the row so you had a little space around you.
I flew with BA,Virgin and Untied on 747's

[India Four Two]

Two personal anecdotes concerning the 747.

I and my family lived in Jakarta in the early 80s. My daughter and my son were both experienced travellers by this time, having flown round the world at least twice. We once went on holiday to a resort on the east coast of Malaya. We flew to Singapore on a CX 747 where we changed planes. We walked down the jetway onto a MAS 737. My son, aged four, looked around and said "Dad, where's the spiral staircase?" He had only ever flown on 747s!

In early 1998, I flew from Tokyo to Saigon via Hong Kong on a CX 777. I realized this would be my last time into Kai Tak before it closed, so I flashed my PPL and business card and got a jump seat ride for the IGS 13 approach - I think being in Business Class helped. A spectacular experience, but the 747 part of the story occurred after landing. We were taxiing in on the parallel taxiway and got a good view of a China Airlines 747 coming round the corner. It touched down in a cloud of tyre smoke, bounced 30 feet into the air and touched down again.

The Captain, who was the PF, said "Another fine arrival by China Airlines!"

The FO turned to me and said "You wouldn't believe how difficult it is to bounce a 747. You really have to work at it!"

[twb3]

TWA operated from STL to HNL using a 747-100 once upon a time (as TWA 1 I believe). The flight departed around lunchtime. More that a few times on the way to or from a lunch out saw this flight depart. When the winds favored a takeoff to the West, there did not appear to be a lot of clearance over the traffic lights at Lindbergh and Missouri Bottom Road!

[steamchicken]

Qantas 400
Qantas SP (definitely the one I was aboard longest, Cairns to LAX)
BA 400
Qantas 400
AirNZ 400
Singapore Airlines 400 (definitely the nicest)
South African 400
VA 400 (definitely the most tatty, older than me and the IFE system somehow destroyed my headphones)
BA 400

[WillowRun 6-3]

Not suggesting that any of these guys read this forum (let alone that they post on it), but shouldn't jetting about the globe on the Queen of the Skies be recalled with both fondness and respect by a rather select fraternity of guys who, in their careers, resided in a house with both "1600" and "Pennsylvania" in its address?

(While vastly modified - I'm aware at least of that bare fact - it's still the same basic design, isn't it?)

[GlobalNav]

Not suggesting that any of these guys read this forum (let alone that they post on it), but shouldn't jetting about the globe on the Queen of the Skies be recalled with both fondness and respect by a rather select fraternity of guys who, in their careers, resided in a house with both "1600" and "Pennsylvania" in its address?

(While vastly modified - I'm aware at least of that bare fact - it's still the same basic design, isn't it?)

A -200 highly modified for VIP interior, secure comms, corresponding generator capacity and aerial refueling among other things. Very low time airframes compared to airlines too. I suppose there’s rationale for updating to latest 747 model, but I’d think retrofit of modern updates would be more cost-effective. Presidential crew members have a unique security clearance and public use of social media “wouldn’t be prudent. “

[Less Hair]

It has more like 747-400 engines. Uprated.

[tdracer]

It has more like 747-400 engines. Uprated.
Not quite. AF1 is equipped with CF6-80C2 engines, but they are the 'PMC' version, not FADEC. There were (IIRC) nine 747s built with the CF6-80C PMC engines - seven 747-300s (i.e. stretched upper deck), and two 747-200s that became the AF1 aircraft (the non-FADEC 747/CF6-80C2 wasn't exactly a big money maker for Boeing :sad:).
But other than the somewhat unusual engine configuration, Willow is correct, the AF1 aircraft started life as pretty much stock standard 747-200s. They were then flown to Wichita (pretty much sans interiors) where they were converted to the AF1 configuration.

[Less Hair]

The performance is beyond what normal -200s can do.

[WillowRun 6-3]

Thanks for all the clarifications and additional info.

[vancouv]

Flew to Vancouver in Feb 2020. At the time was disappointed BA weren't using the A380 which does operate that route but now I'm happy we were on 747s as they were retired shortly afterwards. That will be last flight on anything sadly :bored:

[Ancient Observer]

When BA introduced the 400s, they did their usual arrogant thing of making changes. The flights to Asia for the first few weeks were, er, interesting,
On the Singapore to LHR flights, I ended up in
1. Athens
2. Amsterdam
3. Nowhere
4. Manchester, (via SQ), and thence to LHR.

and that's just the ones I remember!

[BigBoreFour]

Only flown a couple times on a 747.

Lufthansa 744. SIN - FRA.

Air Pacific 744 (?). BNE - NAN (2010. I’m hoping it was the -200 classic but I’m thinking they were all gone by then from FJ. Probably the -400. Makes no difference as I can’t remember it anyway. Lol).


I’ve flown across the Pacific between OZ and the US many many times on various airlines and aircraft - 777, 787, and lately a QF A330 (surprisingly I preferred that most of all of the twins despite always being in economy).

There is just something comforting when you look out over the giant wing of a 747 and see two engines strapped to it as opposed to just one. Especially with all that water below for hours on end.

Statistics and engine reliability be damned! I’ll take 4 any day of the week. :p

[JEM60]

BA747-200. G-AWNO. Capt. Hugh Dibley. Appropriate as wife and I going to the U.S. Grand Prix. {Dibley did quite a lot of motor racing] Same to Montreal.
EL AL 747-200. Heathrow to Tel Aviv
Air Canada 747.Toronto/Heathrow
Virgin Atlantic 747-200. Several trips Gatwick to Orlando and Miami.
South African Airways 747-400 Heathrow to Capetown and Jo'burg to Heathrow. [Several]
BA747-400 Heathrow to Sao Paulo Heathrow to Miami. Heathrow'Montreal also to Toronto.[Flight deck for the Toronto landing, might have been a '200]

[Big Pistons Forever]

I remember as a new commercial pilot 35 years ago talking to a senior 747 Captain. I asked him how he liked flying a big 4 engine jet. His response “ it will do until Boeing builds a 5 engine jet”

[pattern_is_full]

Saw my first 747 in flight in about 1979, when I moved to my first big-city job in Chicago.

What impressed me was how slow and majestic they looked (as eyeballed from the ground in fuselage-lengths-per-second) as they circled the city to join up with the smaller folks for approach to ORD - made me think of dirigibles in films from the 1930s.

My life simply didn't incude a lot of long-haul rides, so only two to report on the 747: CHI-SFO on United in 1982, and SJU-STL on TWA around 1992. No complaints, and glad I got the opportunities.

[wiggy]

When BA introduced the 400s, they did their usual arrogant thing of making changes. The flights to Asia for the first few weeks were, er, interesting,
On the Singapore to LHR flights, I ended up in
1. Athens
2. Amsterdam
3. Nowhere
4. Manchester, (via SQ), and thence to LHR.

and that's just the ones I remember!

What changes are you thinking of?

BA was the/one of the lead customers so it might have been a case of never fly the A variant rather than BA demanding bespoke changes?

One for tdracer perhaps.

[Semreh]

I fancied learning how to fly a glider, and so booked myself into a school in the UK Midlands, where I discovered I was not a natural born pilot - I was excellent at finding sink. So it goes. On the same course was a 747 pilot, and in the general discussions about our performance with the instructors, it was pointed out that he tended to flare for landing rather too early. He pointed out that he was used to sitting rather higher off the ground, and he had a natural tendency to flare at the time he was habituated to!
That said, I've had it pointed out by several pilots that they enjoyed flying gliders (perhaps it helps to keep manual flying skills current?), and it probably helped that the pilot of the 'Gimli Glider' was an experienced glider pilot.

[601]

there were just 2 seats in the row so you had a little space around you.
Best seats in the Class.
Best of all was, in November 1980, scoring a couple of circuits in the 747 sim in Sydney while waiting for an afternoon flight to the US to do a C550 course.
Thanks Reg.

[Less Hair]

It's fascinating that the 747 even with all the size and weight still is essentially an unfiltered, manually flown (power boosted) aircraft.

[India Four Two]

My last 747 flight was February 2019. I was flying on Eva from Saigon to Taipei.

I was expecting a 777 or A330, when to my pleasant surprise, the distinctive nose of a 744 showed up at the lounge window! :)

[tdracer]

What changes are you thinking of?

BA was the/one of the lead customers so it might have been a case of never fly the A variant rather than BA demanding bespoke changes?

One for tdracer perhaps.
Dispatch reliability of the 747-400 was horrid at EIS - something around 80% for the first year. Much having to do with software issues - nuisance maintenance faults and the Central Maintenance Computer (CMC) was a mess. Boeing spent a fortune doing what we called "Block Software Changes" to get the -400 straightened out - EICAS, CMC, FMC, you name it. One of the EICAS updates required a hardware change to go with it - Northwest (the -400 launch customer) didn't want to spend money on the new h/w - so the FAA AD'ed it to make them upgrade (which ended up being a royal pain -every EICAS update after that needed to get an alternate method of compliance because the AD called a specific EICAS s/w version.
That being said, BA came along about a year after EIS (they were the launch Rolls customer) - a lot of the aircraft issues had been straightened out by then, but the RB211 engine control (FAFC) was a mess especially early on.

[Ancient Mariner]

Manila to Cebu, less than one hour with Philippine Airlines B747.
Business. Welcome drink and towel, aperitiff, three course meal with wines for each, then coffee and Cognag and a scotch on the rocks in my hand as we landed.
Well done cabin crew and all done with a smile and a friendly chat with our kids.
Whole family, all three generation, duly impressed.
Per

[CV880]

Hi tdracer, I think you will find Cathay Pacific was the launch customer for the RR 747-400 not BA. RT451 was the main RR powered certification airframe and became VR-HOO on delivery to CX. RT452 was also used in certifying the RR powered variant and was the first RR powered 747-400 delivered to CX as VR-HOP in mid 1989.

[artee]

London - Sydney QF 400. Bangkok was the Qantas slip at that time. Business class, top deck. I was the only passenger up there.

Crew who got on in Bangkok were in a worse state than the crew who got off - they'd been partying (in Patpong?), and were wrecked.

After takeoff the Steward came and said "this is how it's going to work. I'll serve breakfast, but then I need a snooze. When you've finished breakfast, let me know what you'd like to drink, and I'll bring you a case of it. Then after I've had a little snooze, you can have anything you like. OK with you sir?"

Sure enough, after breakfast I asked for a Drambuie, and he came back with a dozen...

[GlobalNav]

London - Sydney QF 400. Bangkok was the Qantas slip at that time. Business class, top deck. I was the only passenger up there.

Crew who got on in Bangkok were in a worse state than the crew who got off - they'd been partying (in Patpong?), and were wrecked.

After takeoff the Steward came and said "this is how it's going to work. I'll serve breakfast, but then I need a snooze. When you've finished breakfast, let me know what you'd like to drink, and I'll bring you a case of it. Then after I've had a little snooze, you can have anything you like. OK with you sir?"

Sure enough, after breakfast I asked for a Drambuie, and he came back with a dozen...

I think I’d have asked to deplane prior to departure. Hard to expect the crew to be capable of safe duty performance.

[megan]

I asked him how he liked flying a big 4 engine jet. His response “ it will do until Boeing builds a 5 engine jet”He was flying a five engine Boeing, well, six really, counting the little one in the tail. ;)


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x640/ab243_6c074315e3ebe5c26da2cf824d721e4d0d257e85.jpeg

[artee]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/863x1080/space_shuttle_boeing_747_concorde_819x1024_bea9e89ab72af86a6 af59bac5a6eba86a5c01cab.jpg

Washington Dulles Airport 1986
from https://ourplnt.com/space-shuttle-boeing-747-concorde/

[tfx]

Mistake. The new planes aren't big enough. I've flown 747 with 600 people on board. Routinely. In the Middle East, Asia, hajjing and what not, carrying big numbers, you need that capability.

Plus, just looking at the delay with the 777x, has the big twin concept maybe got past the point of diminishing returns?

Plus, this business of taking twins over the North Pole and down into Antarctica is going to end in tears sooner or later.

[megan]

this business of taking twins over the North Pole and down into Antarctica is going to end in tears sooner or laterThe beancounters will soon realise they can cut 50% from engine maintenance costs by going single engine and halving the probability of an engine issue disrupting schedule, all synchronous with a single pilot policy of course.

[BigBoreFour]

Some nice 'home video' footage from a Pan Am LHR-LAX flight. 747-121.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6_iwIso4zY

Holy moly...I wasn't sure it was going to lift off.
Then I wasn't sure it was going to climb.

Interesting comments from the video source : The altitude for most of the journey was 29,000 ft. As fuel was used up and the aircraft became lighter, the 747 climbed to 33,000ft over the Grand Canyon and into California.
I kinda thought it may have gained more height by the end of the long flight, but what would I know?

[DaveReidUK]

Mistake. The new planes aren't big enough. I've flown 747 with 600 people on board. Routinely. In the Middle East, Asia, hajjing and what not, carrying big numbers, you need that capability.

You could build a 1000-seat aircraft and there would be some routes and some times of day/year where you could fill it.

But that's not a reason for building one.

[wiggy]

tdracer/CV880

Many thanks for the replies upthread...FWIW EIS was in it's later stages when I joined the BA 744 fleet and don't recall too much drama, hence my original question.

[Less Hair]

With all the transpacific supply needs coming up creating the next military transport would be warranted. Like maybe a blended wing body. Hopefully this will enable a commercial sibling like the 747 again. Megacity growth seems to indicate that there will be a future need for very big aircraft however not right at this time now.

[ZFT]

Amazing what one forgets. Back in 1978 whilst working at ANA I had the opportunity to travel between Tokyo and Osaka on a JAL 747 100 SR which had around 550 seats IIRC
(Another one to add to the list too)

[tab28682]

I was only able fly fly a single leg in a 747. Mostly due to living near the American Airlines mega hub at DFW and being a heavy user of AA.

Late May of 2002, I flew a BA from Heathrow to Changi in Singapore, business class. Departed, if I recall correctly at 10pm and arrived around 6pm in Singapore.
My first experience with BA and it was excellent. Had a nice dinner and was soon asleep and logged 8 hours of uninterrupted shut-eye.
That leg filled in my dance card for nearly every Boeing aircraft except for the 717 (added later in Hawaii)

Now only need to find a 787 leg.

That May of 2002 trip was a one of a kind trip for work. Three weeks long, business class, once around the world to the right. DFW-LHR (AA) , LHR-SIN, SIN-NRT (Japan Airlines MD-11) and NRT-DFW (AA). The MD-11 leg was my first and only MD-11 experience. (Very nice)

Wish I had flown a few more times in a 747.

[Skywards747]

List of my B747 flights:

Singapore Airlines
Japan Airlines
Qantas
United
ANA
Cathay
Thai
Air Lanka
Air Mauritius
Lufthansa

[wiggy]

tab28682

Late May of 2002, I flew a BA from Heathrow to Changi in Singapore, business class. Departed, if I recall correctly at 10pm and arrived around 6pm in Singapore.

Sounds about right...after the transit stop the aircraft then used to carry on overnight for a early breakfast time arrival in Sydney.

[JEM60]

Flight deck visit on a 747/200. Asked what it was like to fly something so large. Reply. 'Well, easy really!. We just fly this little bit at the front and hope the rest follows!!.'

[Commander Taco]

Meanwhile, the parting out of a 747-8 BBJ commences. What a sad end to a magnificent airplane.

Boeing 747-8 BBJ Parting Out (https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/worlds-first-boeing-747-8-bbj-scrapped-in-us-after-just-30-flight-hours)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/802x469/747_8_bbj_76e4f1c2a547fb2263e43f44e9bc47cf81d4cf40.jpg

[Pearly White]

This seems like an unbelievable waste of time and money.
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/worlds-first-boeing-747-8-bbj-scrapped-in-us-after-just-30-flight-hours

[RatherBeFlying]

The fuse would make a luxurious BnB - once you get it to your site:p
​​​​

[artee]

The fuse would make a luxurious BnB - once you get it to your site:p
​​​​

Which could be a bit tricky, now they've removed the engines. :sad:

[Rat Catcher]

Sat in Basel for years, wonder what went awry:8

[newscaster]

Hard to comprehend why an affluent nation couldnt induct this aircraft into the state VIP fleet, if not private fleet.

[procede]

Was this one of the prototypes used for flight testing?

[Asturias56]

I think it may the plane that was heavily modified for the last King of Saudi - not just a lift but one capable of taking a stretcher from the runway into the aircraft IIRC - plus a full on medical/surgical suite

Not easy to sell on

[BlankBox]

Maybe Qanon could purchase for their Orange Crush guy?

[lederhosen]

Which airframes will be modified for the US Air Force One fleet? I thought I read somewhere they were also cancelled orders, but presumably easier to modify than this one.

[Asturias56]

They were off an ex Russian airline order

[Pearly White]

British Airways farewell to the 747 - nice video: https://youtu.be/ggsF7RO4GQ4
Includes one in the retro BOAC livery.

[newscaster]

The USAF ones belonged to defunct Russian airline Transaero that had ordered four 748 of which two were built but then the airline went out of business, the NTU were offered to PIA in place of a 77W order of five aircraft they had signed up for few years earlier, and later to Iran Air after sanctions were lifted briefly from the country, they had initially decided to take them but in the final order chose the 77X and 77W, In PIA case the aircraft was found unsuitable to operate from Lahore a major gateway in Pakistan, not sure how true this is.

Was this one of the prototypes used for flight testing?
No that was the first A380 frame sold to Kingdom Holding in Saudi Arabia and was being converted into the first and only ABJ380, the Saudi firm decided to scrap the conversion and sold the aircraft.

[Less Hair]

The 747-8I prototype not taken was an aircraft destined for Lufthansa. With finally way more test hours than expected it did not fit within the standardised maintenance schedule for the rest of their 747-8 order batch anymore.

[sunnybunny]

My only flight on a 747 was in 1986 NW Minneapolis to London Gatwick. Thought the take off run was very very long but we got there.

I had planned a bucket list trip in Oct 2020 , London to Calgary with BA , business class , train across the rockies and BA 747 from Vancouver back where I had booked 1st class as Big big birthday treat being in the air when my birthday clocked round.

gutted when it had to be cancelled due to covid then even more gutted when BA scrapped the fleet as I would never realise my dream.

[FMCspeed]

Sad to see the Queen going. Hope to see them flying as cargo for the next years.

[tdracer]

This seems like an unbelievable waste of time and money.
https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/worlds-first-boeing-747-8-bbj-scrapped-in-us-after-just-30-flight-hours
I'm seeing conflicting stories on this one. At least some sources suggest that it's not being scrapped as such - although the engines and some high value electronics have been removed, the airframe is still intact and the owners are still trying to sell it as a complete aircraft (obviously they'd need to restore the stuff that's been removed).
Might make sense if there is a hull loss due to a hard landing or something similar - make the hull loss the donor aircraft for the stuff missing from this one.

[stevef]

I had a cockpit ride on a SABENA 747 between N'Djili (Kinshasa, Zaire) and Brazzaville (Republic of Congo) in 1994. Distance was about 25 kilometres. The aircraft had to uplift fuel there to get us to Brussels because of an issue at N'Djili. The headset was full of checklist calls and responses from start to finish!

[visibility3miles]

I think I decided I want to fly the first time I saw a 747 when I was a child. We had to walk out to the ramp and climb up stairs to get onboard, but I was awestruck when I saw that the diameter of the engine was bigger than me.

[megan]

owners are still trying to sell itFAA register says it's owned by Boeing.

[artee]

Useless snippet - I was queueing to get on a 400 on my way to Sydney, not long after Qantas had run a non-stop LHR-SYD demo flight to get lots of publicity. I started talking to the guy next to me, who worked with Shell. He said that the fuel for the Qantas flight was specially made in Germany and trucked over to London for the flight. Apparently it had a higher energy density, or something like that.

[tdracer]

Useless snippet - I was queueing to get on a 400 on my way to Sydney, not long after Qantas had run a non-stop LHR-SYD demo flight to get lots of publicity. I started talking to the guy next to me, who worked with Shell. He said that the fuel for the Qantas flight was specially made in Germany and trucked over to London for the flight. Apparently it had a higher energy density, or something like that.

Sounds plausible - Qantas bought some increased TO weight 747-400s - 910k IIRC (I think Qantas labeled them "Long Reach"). However, even with the increased TO weight, fuel volume could become the limiting factor - higher specific gravity fuel could address that (the energy value in fuel pretty much tracks with the specific gravity).
I know that over the years, some racing teams have used higher specific gravity gasoline to allow richer engine fuel settings (e.g. more power).

BTW megan - I know the aircraft was delivered at one point - maybe Boeing agreed to take it back at some point (after a substantial 'restocking' fee). Non-deliveries could really throw a wrench in the cert process since the Cert process required us to call out the line number of the first delivery of any newly certified changes. I know I personally got crossed up with the Transaero went bust - I had a change with the initial implementation on the first Transaero delivery (which I didn't know didn't deliver at the time). FAA got all bent out of shape because we didn't properly identify the change implementation - Cert blamed it on me, made me write a disclosure, and assigned me the task of creating a corrective action plan to make sure it didn't happen again. So I put together a plan that threw it back at Cert with a plan that would force them to provide planned delivery schedules to all the various ARs on a weekly basis, with any changes from the previous schedule called out. Funny, I never heard back from them on that one...

[FullOppositeRudder]

Only three airlines I'm afraid:
Air NZ (Auckland to Vancouver - 'twas a long way - and on the TO run I was starting to wonder if we've ever get off the ground...) Return trip also with ANZ - great people to fly with.
Qantas (Adelaide to Auckland)
Singapore (Singapore to Frankfurt)

Lovely aircraft - privileged to have had the opportunity to ride on one...

[megan]

He said that the fuel for the Qantas flight was specially made in Germany and trucked over to London for the flight. Apparently it had a higher energy density, or something like thatRemember an article at the time saying they put the fuel truck in a freezer to increase the density as well as being specially refined for high calorific content.

td, history of the 747 ownership

N458BJ Boeing 747-8 Boeing Business Jets Jun 2012

N458BJ Bank of Utah Jul 2012, Ferried PAE-YYR-SBD 9 Jul 2012 on delivery, Ferried SBD-SKF 6 Oct 2012, std at BSL 29 Dec 2012 - 15 Apr 2022

HZ-HMS1 Saudi Arabian Government

N458BJ Aircraft Finance Germany (AFG) Sep 2019

N458BJ Boeing Apr 2022

[hoistop]

The "father" of 747, Mr. Joe Sutter, was a son of Slovenian immigrant Franc Suhadolc. (Joe`s original name was Jozef Friderik Suhadolc, but, as many immigrants, his father changed surname to more practical English version Sutter)
In 2002 Slovenian CAA, local airline Adria Airways and Faculty of Machinery Engineering invited him over, and on occasion he gave a great lecture about designing the 747 at the university. I was really sad that I missed it - all seats on this lecture were "sold off" in no time. Later, he was still coming on summer visits to his father`s birthplace. His dad left his home village Dobrova (few miles west of Slovenian capital Ljubljana) to Alaska, following the gold rush in 1896, when he was only 17. He had some success with gold mining, that gave him funding to start meat processing business and then raise a family with his wife, Rosa Sutter nee Plesik - she was "geborene Wienerin" - born in Vienna, today`s Austria, but then the capital city of Austro-Ungarian Empire, of which today`s Slovenia was part of.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x427/pipistrel_joe_sutter_ea6fbfb6024bffcc80cfed9660fcd2c1811e422 8.jpg
Joe Sutter visiting Slovenian aviation factory Pipistrel, manufacturer of the world`s first certified electric powered airplane (in 2006)

[Less Hair]

Great picture and post. Thanks a lot.

[Asturias56]

13 Airlines

BA
SIA
Qantas
South African
Virgin
Pan AM (SP)
TWA
China Airlines
Cathay
KLM
UTA
Northwest
Air Canada

[sf25]

British (-100),
PanAm (-100),
Sabena (-200),
Syrian (SP),
Lufthansa (-200, t/o on jumpseat),
Air India (-300, -400),
Royal Air Maroc (-400). RAM had had a bad day with lots of pax stranded in Casablanca due to delays. All pax booked on different flights to their domestic destinations which were about to leave all around midnight. Finally all pax found themselves in the same 747, which made a tour to all major maroccan airports .....

[Badger3434]

Inconsequential addition to this wonderful thread: flying from SIN to LHR in a BA 747-400 many years ago I asked for a cockpit visit (with the excuse that my company made aircraft seats) and when I sat in a jump seat I noticed that no one actually did anything, just the occassional button twirl.Eventually I plucked up courage and asked how come they get paid 150k when it seemed no more complicated than driving a bus down the main street.

Response from the Captain: "Yes, you are absolutely right, but every 5 years we have an emergency and then I get paid three quarters of a million to sort it. So I suppose they pay me in equal installments".

[Bergerie1]

Badger, That's about right. But I would also add that at least half of the salary was earned by recognising an impending problem and then making the right decisions a few hours or minutes earlier, this avoiding the emergency in the first place.

[CV880]

As a maintenance engineer trained on very early 747’s how many remember the following-

· A Main Landing Gear Load Evener system.

· A Standby Horizontal Stabilizer Trim system.

· Engine Nose cowls with suck-in secondary doors like the JT3D powered 707’s.

· 400-600LBs of ballast weight in the outboard engine nose cowls.

· Rotary Engine Start/Ignition switches as used on 707, 727 etc. Replaced by individual ignition toggle switches to enable single ignition starting to quickly identify an inoperative ignition system after too many delays caused by dual failures.

· 2 or 3 cockpit placards stating ‘Disregard spurious indications during HF transmission”. One was applied to the engine oil quantity indicators if I recall correctly.

· No Body Gear Steering ARMED – OFF switch. BGS was active whenever aircraft was on the ground.

· No Auto Brake system.

· Memory tells me the very early Rudder Pedal/Nosewheel Steering interconnect was mechanically activated by a flexible push/pull cable from the nose landing gear (the cable used to break and was replaced by an electrical actuator system).

· Cool Gas Generators for slideraft inflation (a pyrotechnic device that instantly turned the liquid in the bottle into a gas, mounted in the upper door bustle).

· Rotating anti collision beacons that needed fairly frequent relamping.

There are probably more but these are ones that come to mind.

[slast]

I noticed that no one actually did anything, just the occassional button twirl.

Detailed payslip breakdown:
For twirling button: £152.33
For knowing which button to twirl: £15223.00
For knowing when to stop twirling button: £134,614.67
Total £150,000.00


And, as I quoted in another thread:
"the superior pilot uses his superior judgement to avoid ever having to use his superior skills"

[treadigraph]

Badger, That's about right. But I would also add that at least half of the salary was earned by recognising an impending problem and then making the right decisions a few hours or minutes earlier, this avoiding the emergency in the first place.

I heard a story about the Duke of Edinburgh making a lengthy cockpit visit high over the Atlantic in an RAF Comet. After some considerable time with everyone relaxed and enjoying the chin wag with HRH, one of the crew received a brief radio message, acknowledged and changed frequency. "Crikey!" said the Duke "it's all go up here, isn't it?"

[albatross]

Quick Question: Have the new USAF “Air Force One” 747s officially “exited the factory”?
Aren’t the delivery dates 2024 and 2027?

I heard that the tasteless, gaudy paint scheme chosen by Txxxp has been cancelled. I trust there will be no golden toilet with paper shredder option.

[DaveReidUK]

Quick Question: Have the new USAF “Air Force One” 747s officially “exited the factory”?

The two new VC-25s first flew in 2016.

They are currently at San Antonio/Lackland having their mission fit.

[farefield]

Inconsequential addition to this wonderful thread: flying from SIN to LHR in a BA 747-400 many years ago I asked for a cockpit visit (with the excuse that my company made aircraft seats) and when I sat in a jump seat I noticed that no one actually did anything, just the occassional button twirl.Eventually I plucked up courage and asked how come they get paid 150k when it seemed no more complicated than driving a bus down the main street.

Sir Dicky Branson was the same, He'd have preferred a maximum activity flight deck so that we appeared to be earning our pay and then 10 hours later when the wx was sh*t we'd actually earn our pay.

[911slf]

Sir Dicky Branson was the same, He'd have preferred a maximum activity flight deck so that we appeared to be earning our pay and then 10 hours later when the wx was sh*t we'd actually earn our pay.
A parallel for you. My son used to go caving. No emergencies but events included:

• the water in a fast flowing stream was ankle deep on the way in but waist deep on the way out
• some vandal removed the ropes they had used to abseil in, while they were in the cave
• a newbie had a major panic attack while underground

All three events were reasonably predictable and contingency plans were activated.

[SteveHobson]

I have been fortunate to fly in many 747's, but the last few times I flew the BA 747-400's they were really showing their age.
My favourite aeroplane is the B 757, sleek and elegant looking.

BA -100, 200, 400
PAN AM - 100
ANA -400
AIR NZ -400
KLM - 200, 400
LH - 200, 400
SWISSAIR - 200, 300
IRAN AIR - SP, 200
AIR FRANCE - 400
SINGAPORE - 300
NORTH WEST - 200
CATHAY - 400
BRANIFF - 100 BIG ORANGE

[tdracer]

The last 747 - a 747-8F - is scheduled to deliver to Atlas tomorrow (Tuesday, Jan 31) at 1pm Pacific Time. A big ceremony is planned.
It will be available on-line here:
Boeing 747 Celebration (vimeo.com) (https://vimeo.com/event/2815427)

[treadigraph]

On delivery to Cincinnati right now - interesting route!

https://www.flightradar24.com/GTI747/2f0b1162

[tdracer]

On delivery to Cincinnati right now - interesting route!

https://www.flightradar24.com/GTI747/2f0b1162
Yea, they showed that routing during the delivery ceremony yesterday. Nice to see it actually panned out as planned.

[India Four Two]

Nice to see they did it near the Moses Lake flight test airfield.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1210x723/screenshot_2023_02_02_at_12_49_11_825728ec48c18c03cbefd45603 aa3f3a71ef99d4.png

And a 500' fly by at Paine Field after takeoff.

[jettison valve]

Seems like N863GT flew back to PAE today (5Y88), having sat at CVG for the whole two weeks since delivery.
Per FR24, it parked on the Boeing ramp apparently.

Anyone knows why it came back to PAE?
Picking up freight? Or somebody unhappy with the a/c…?

[Liffy 1M]

Post #469 here (https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468463&start=450) indicates that it is for a further ceremony, involving Apex / Kuehne + Nagel.

[jettison valve]

Post #469 here (https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1468463&start=450) indicates that it is for a further ceremony, involving Apex / Kuehne + Nagel.

ah, ok - thanks! 👍

[EDLB]

As we are at it. Is there any civil 4 holer left in production?

[Less Hair]

Il-76 and Il-96.

[hans brinker]

Il-76 and Il-96.

not very "civil"

[Less Hair]

In theory both are available as new built commercial freighters. The 76 even just got engine upgrades.

[DaveReidUK]

In theory both are available as new built commercial freighters. The 76 even just got engine upgrades.

AFAIK, the Il-96-500T (the only proposed freighter variant) never got beyond the drawing board.

[Less Hair]

The first Il-96-400M is under construction. A reconfigured old fuselage. It took years but legally it is "in production". This is what was asked for above.
https://www.flugrevue.de/zivil/iljuschin-il-96-400m-geht-russlands-neuer-grossraum-airliner-doch-in-serie/

[tdracer]

The first Il-96-400M is under construction. A reconfigured old fuselage. It took years but legally it is "in production". This is what was asked for above.
https://www.flugrevue.de/zivil/iljuschin-il-96-400m-geht-russlands-neuer-grossraum-airliner-doch-in-serie/
I'm not sure I consider a single prototype - in final assembly for over 3 years - of a design that doesn't appear to have any prospect of actually being produced in numbers - as "in production".

[Less Hair]

They certainly take their time. In April 2021 they built another 96-300 for the Russian government's Rossiya airline. This one could considered to have been military, but -once in a while- they still build new quads.

Is there any civil 4 holer left in production?

Video-Blogger Sam Chui onboard a civil Il-76 with the new engines.
https://samchui.com/2022/06/12/trip-report-flying-soviet-transporter-il-76-to-iraq/#.Y_EtYi9Xby8

[EDLB]

Hmm. 2 pilots, 1 flight engineer 1 navigator all on their own stations. Hard to imagine that O'Leary will buy some of those.
Thanks for the link.

[Less Hair]

Four engines for mid haul.

[megan]

2 pilots, 1 flight engineer 1 navigator all on their own stationsUndermanned, what happened to the radio operator?

[treadigraph]

Undermanned, what happened to the radio operator?
And the bomb aimer...