Tata Air India : Blatant discrimination and suspicious recruitment drive

[jetsreams]

**A Violation of group ethics ?**

It is reliably learnt that Tata/ Air India is on the verge of hiring foreign pilots to meet its requirements on the Boeing 777 fleet through a recruitment firm. The terms of contract include more than double the pay(USD 21000/- per month or thereabouts) of currently serving pilots, six weeks on and two weeks off, end of contract bonuses, business class tickets, generous medical benefits and many other perks that are not offered to Indian nationals.Strangely these are short term contracts and bound to attract Russians and the like who will not be able to obtain US crew visas!Moreover,the India FATA and AEP procedures are known to take months rendering these pilots unproductive for a long time.

Ironically Air India recently completed another selection process for the Boeing 777 fleet wherein 120 Indian nationals were made to pay roughly USD 1300 for their own simulator check ride and offered salaries that were less than half of what is currently being earned by the existing work force. Predictably only 4 of them accepted the offer!

It is highly suspicious that Air India is now embarking on a hiring spree of foreign nationals with benefits that are far in excess of the existing Indian workforce through a recruitment firm. Why were recently selected experienced type rated Indian pilots directly selected from the market not offered the same terms and compensation forcing them to turn down those offers?

Why should a foreign recruitment firm or intermediary be required to hire foreigners when Air India has the in-house faculties to select pilots on their own- just as they had done recently?Is it possible that the earlier recruitment drive for Indians was a sham and designed to deter them from joining by offering poor compensation packages to create an artificial shortage and to facilitate the hiring of foreigners through recruitment firms that pay hefty commissions to senior officials within the organisation ?

The Tata group professes to shun corruption and discrimination and therefore,must investigate this.

[Bloated Stomach]

**Discrimination in Air India- A Violation of the Tata ethos ?**

It is reliably learnt that Tata/ Air India is on the verge of hiring foreign pilots to meet its requirements on the Boeing 777 fleet through a recruitment firm. The terms of contract include more than double the pay of currently serving pilots, six weeks on and two weeks off, end of contract bonuses, business class tickets, generous medical benefits and many other perks that are not offered to Indian nationals.

Air India recently completed a selection process for the Boeing 777 fleet wherein 120 Indian nationals were made to pay roughly USD 1300 for their own simulator check ride and offered salaries that were less than half of what is currently being earned by the existing work force. Predictably only 4 of them accepted the offer!

It is highly suspicious that Air India is now hiring pilots from the world market with lucrative benefits far in excess of the existing workforce through a recruitment firm and also paying for the simulator check ride.
Why should a recruitment firm be required when Air India has the in-house faculties to select pilots on their own- just as they had done recently?

Is it possible that the earlier failed recruitment drive for Indians was a sham and designed to deter pilots from joining to create an artificial shortage to justify the hiring of foreigners through recruitment firms that pay hefty commissions to senior officials within the organisation ?

This blatant discrimination (the Tata group professes to shun corruption and discrimination) must stop and the apparent scam must be thoroughly investigated by the Tata group!

It's quite simple, if you don't like the terms, don't apply. No one should be paying for a simulator assessment.

Indians are responsible for the deterioration of their aviation sector. If you unite as a group of professionals, you can dictate the terms and improve remuneration package.

Foreigners are not your problem, you are your problem.

[threep]

Why would an airline want to pay higher salaries and offer better T&Cs than if it recruited locally? If what you say is true, there's got to be an underlying story

[ToCatLady]

Perhaps the indian nationals need to look themselves in the mirror and ask WHY their national flag carrier is offering over double salary and lucrative benefits for the "foreigner" to come in and fly.

At least the recruitment firm will know and check the Pilot's licence and hours to be correct for a start!

[vilas]

Air India was privatised after their cumulative losses crossed 700billion Indian Rs. Indian aviation is a very low margin, very competitive industry. This will be TATA group's biggest turn around challenge in their entire history. Surely they haven't taken over AI to write off the entire TATA group's wealth. So every move of their's is well calculated towards making the airline profitable. That they will go for most expensive labour of foreign origin to shoot themselves in the foot is not possible. TATA group is not some fly by night group. So something is wrong in post, some misunderstanding, may be half truth. We will have to wait and watch.

[krismiler]

Expats are only employed if there is an insufficient number of local pilots who meet the required standards. Airlines don’t pay more than they have to.

What was the result of the screening exercise, ie how many locals passed ?

[The Banjo]

Paying to attract experienced crews who have real licences certified logbooks and real experience is a lot cheaper than having an accident. Perhaps the regulator and insurance companies are having a say in the matter. Other Airlines in the region went through the same issues 20 years ago.

[filejw]

It's quite simple, if you don't like the terms, don't apply. No one should be paying for a simulator assessment.

Indians are responsible for the deterioration of their aviation sector. If you unite as a group of professionals, you can dictate the terms and improve remuneration package.

Foreigners are not your problem, you are your problem.

Sounds like you have union problem ( or lack of ) not a discrimination issue .Nothing like terms and conditions being tied to a binding work agreement to include pay scheduling upgrades ect.

[Flying Clog]

What The Banjo said.

It appears the insurance companies consider the local pilots to be a liability. We all know the stories. Pass the 'Parker pen'.

Not surprised in the least that they are being forced to recruit externally.

[hans brinker]

**Discrimination in Air India- A Violation of the Tata ethos ?**

It is reliably learnt that Tata/ Air India is on the verge of hiring foreign pilots to meet its requirements on the Boeing 777 fleet through a recruitment firm. The terms of contract include more than double the pay of currently serving pilots, six weeks on and two weeks off, end of contract bonuses, business class tickets, generous medical benefits and many other perks that are not offered to Indian nationals.

Air India recently completed a selection process for the Boeing 777 fleet wherein 120 Indian nationals were made to pay roughly USD 1300 for their own simulator check ride and offered salaries that were less than half of what is currently being earned by the existing work force. Predictably only 4 of them accepted the offer!

It is highly suspicious that Air India is now hiring pilots from the world market with lucrative benefits far in excess of the existing workforce through a recruitment firm and also paying for the simulator check ride.
Why should a recruitment firm be required when Air India has the in-house faculties to select pilots on their own- just as they had done recently?

Is it possible that the earlier failed recruitment drive for Indians was a sham and designed to deter pilots from joining to create an artificial shortage to justify the hiring of foreigners through recruitment firms that pay hefty commissions to senior officials within the organisation ?

This blatant discrimination (the Tata group professes to shun corruption and discrimination) must stop and the apparent scam must be thoroughly investigated by the Tata group!


I would be more than somewhat surprised if the recruitment firm discriminated on any thing else but requirements/qualifications. So just apply through the recruitment firm....
(if you meet the qualifications to earn that pay)

[jetsreams]

All the local / Indian pilots that were selected were type rated and experienced but were offered a paltry salary of less than USD 5000 per month which most turned down.

Foreign nationals are now being sought through a recruitment firm for almost 4x the amount with less work (6 months on and 2 weeks off) !

Nothing can explain the logic of this except that there is a strong possibility of commissions being paid to certain top officials by the recruitment agency

[Flying Clog]

Or that the foreign pilots are more likely to have genuine licences and hours in their logbooks. Something I understand global insurance companies prefer.

[The Banjo]

Not to mention the paying public.

[jetsreams]

That is utter hogwash. Insurance companies have nothing to do with this. Many of the Indian pilots who applied and were selected were highly experienced and type endorsed having flown in other major airlines like Eithad, Jet and Turkish. Yet they were offered a paltry salary of USD 5500/- ( before taxes) which they refused to accept.

Now the Tatas are offering non Indian nationals 4x the pay with 6 weeks on and 2 weeks off through a dubious recruitment firm. Reeks of discrimination and shady dealings

[Flying Clog]

Reeks of sour grapes more like. And learn to spell Etihad.

[masalama]

jetsreams Yes this is being followed closely and has raised quite a few eyebrows in the industry. I know of a few rated , experienced 777 PIC's (Indian nationals) currently flying at Turkish , Etihad etc who were ex- Jet etc and were quite surprised by the abysmal offer and the strange pay for selection and training requirement for a current , typed and experienced PIC. This whole thing stinks , AI doesn't have any expats on their widebody/narrow body fleets now and they'd be shooting themselves in the foot in the long run( FATA delays & extensions, cost of expat vs local contracts , FATA cancellations etc)
The only logic is a nice money making scheme as the nexus between recruitment companies and ex airlines middle men (Jet, Kingfisher etc) were quite a strong rumor floating around the haze on finals 27 at VABB , I'd be surprised if it doesn't get shot down soon :=
Flying Clog Banjo Parker pen pilots exist everywhere FYI , people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones my friends , or maybe you haven't heard of that saying , come on down to India, we'll get you up and running soon buddy :}
Happy landings masalama :ok:

[Magplug]

Standing by to be corrected, but......

All this talk of discrimination? Whilst it might be illegal in Europe or the US to discriminate against someone on the basis of their nationality, colour or creed I don't believe the same applies under Indian law. Insisting (from the comfort of your armchair) that western standards should be applied to another fundamentally different world demonstrates a complete absence of cultural awareness. What right do we have to impose our standards on other cultures? We may not approve, we might voice our disapproval but the only censure we can apply is to not visit or have anything to do with them.

I wonder how much it cost Qatar in bribes to get the Soccer World Cup? Perhaps they should have considered the press fallout before spending their money!

[CargoOne]

Air India has issued new grooming guidelines for its cabin crew, as the new owners of the carrier, Tata Group, looks to improve the perception and the image of the airline internationally.

According to the guidelines, seen and reported by Livemint (http://livemint/), both male and female cabin crew will have to change their grooming habits. The new rules were put in place because “representations and images of its crew members are not as per international standards,” local media quoted Air India crew as saying.

For men, “deep receding hairlines and male balding patches must keep a clean shaved head or bald look,” read the guidelines, demanding that the head must be shaved daily in that case. Gray hair is not permitted for either male or female cabin crew, and “must be regularly colored in a natural shade.”
For women who ensure the safety inside Air India’s aircraft cabins, options are wider, as the airline has issued a hair color shade card. Yet “blonde hair colour and streaking is strictly not permitted,” and the head fibers must be stylized according to the guidelines issued by Air India. “Hair must be neat and styled according to company hair guidelines. Very high top knots and low buns resting on the neck are strictly not permitted. The bun must be made in the centre of the crown. A donut must be used for making a round bun.” Changes to the uniform The airline’s new rules on uniforms are very stringent as well. Men can only wear “black calf-length socks without logos,” while for women, “calf-length stockings (sheer ones and matching the skin tone) are mandatory for flight duties with both a saree and Indo western uniform,” continued the guidelines.

A newly-issued cardigan “can be worn for boarding and deplaning (during winter months only) and inflight for lull periods on LH and ULH flights throughout the year.” However, wearing a cardigan is prohibited during in-flight service. The cardigan replaced the now-banned black blazer and an apron, both of which were “discontinued and not to be worn on board.”

Male crew has to wear black uniform jackets throughout all stages of the flight, namely boarding, service, and deplaning. “Personal tie pins are not allowed. Crew can wear a tie without the tie pin if not issued,” added the new rules.

In terms of accesories, for men, only a single ring – a wedding band – or a Sikh Kada is allowed.. “Kada with a maximum width of 0.5 cm thickness in gold or silver without any design, logos or stones may be worn. (No bracelets),” the instructions detailed. Female cabin crew are restricted to earrings that are no other than gold or diamond studs, are round, and have no shape, design, or ornamentation.

“Pearls are not allowed. A small bindi is allowed with a saree only (optional) and must be within 0.5 cm in size. Big-size bindi is not permitted,” explained the guidelines. Still, two rings (with a maximum width of 1 cm) are allowed, with one worn on each hand.

“The crew must wear complete make-up as per the new uniform guidelines for all flight duties using the company shade card only. Eyeshadow, lipsticks, nail paint and hair shade cards are to be strictly followed as per uniform. Personal shades in these four products are not permitted,” clarified the makeup rules Air India’s grooming guidelines. Nail polish must either match the uniform or cabin crew can opt to wear gel nail polish and French manicures only if the two are well-maintained throughout the working hours.

[Eclan]

I'd have thought USD$5500 a month for a local in India would be like hitting the jackpot. What's the problem?

"Discrimination" and "racism" are the catch-all cries in a society where discrimination a-la the caste system is a way of life. If an indian's lips are moving there are cries of racism. It is not a racist thing to say this, merely generalist and realist. Fix your dodgy logbooks and qualifications and no doubt the jobs will follow.

[IBMJunkman]

Gray hair is not permitted for either male or female cabin crew, and “must be regularly colored in a natural shade.”

As humans age the hair goes gray. That makes it ‘natural’.

[White Van Driver]

Interested that $5500 is a paltry salary - it's not far off the salary an experienced pilot takes on joining British Airways....

[EladElap]

Will/can foreign pilots employed via recruitment agencies strike?

[Lonewolf_50]

I wonder how much it cost Qatar in bribes to get the Soccer World Cup? Perhaps they should have considered the press fallout before spending their money! My guess is that they figured that it's a load of noise to be put up with, since once the matches begins all of those other objections tend to get drowned out, just as the sound of jet blast / exhaust will drown out the sound of wind.
As humans age the hair goes gray. That makes it ‘natural’. As I read through the uniform guidance, I think I understand what they are trying to achieve: a uniform appearance that fits a paticular image that they wish to project. Having spent a career in the military, I understand how uniform regs work, though I will say that they sure dove deep into the details to get the desired 'image' that they are looking for. I wonder if they provide a small allowance for hair dye/coloring in order to allow the grey and silver haired to conform to standards.

[White Sausage]

That is utter hogwash. Insurance companies have nothing to do with this. Many of the Indian pilots who applied and were selected were highly experienced and type endorsed having flown in other major airlines like Eithad, Jet and Turkish. Yet they were offered a paltry salary of USD 5500/- ( before taxes) which they refused to accept.

Now the Tatas are offering non Indian nationals 4x the pay with 6 weeks on and 2 weeks off through a dubious recruitment firm. Reeks of discrimination and shady dealings


No, it’s not 4 x the pay, it’s 10K and that’s it. For this they will not get experienced AND current (meaning employed) captains, so stop whining. No 777 captain who is presently employed would consider leaving their employer and move to an uncertain future in India with people like you who are waiting to stab them in the back. Especially not for this low salary.

[Pearly White]

What The Banjo said.

We all know the stories. Pass the 'Parker pen'.

. Wait, what? Care to elaborate?

[KRviator]

Wait, what? Care to elaborate?When there's thirty pilots all logging VT-BIC on the same day, people get suspicious

Probe into fake pilots scam reveals flying schools fudged logbooks (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/probe-into-fake-pilots-scam-reveals-flying-schools-fudged-logbooks/articleshow/7803299.cms)and India revokes licences of 14 'fake pilots' (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-12857742) and India may have 4000 'fake' pilots (https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-may-have-4000-fake-pilots-449891) and Indian fake pilot scandal continues to grow. (https://www.travelmole.com/news/indias-fake-pilot-scandal-continues-to-grow/) Hell, simply Googling "Indian fake pilot" returns over 22 million results!

And the locals wonder why they want to hire widebody expats? Really?!?

[Flying Clog]

Hit the nail on the head KRviator. Exactly that.

And 10k per month, bloody hell, any self respecting expat long haul captain wouldn't get out of bed for double that.

I mean, India is cheap as chips, sure, and you'd live like a king there on that, but expat captains need to maintain their life/house/commitments, potentially pay tax, back west, so 20-30k would be the figure I would be looking at to drag me over...

But no doubt you'll get some desperados who are unemployable elsewhere to mix it up with the Parker pen brigade. What could possibly go wrong?

[masalama]

From the Economic Times dated 27 November 2022 ,
While the government has said that there is no shortage of pilots in India, it a ..

Read more at:
https://infra.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/aviation/india-needs-1000-pilots-annually-but-training-infra-in-short-supply/95805579

The report says there are currently 82 FATA (Expat) pilots as against over 9000 Indian national pilots employed by the airlines in India , that's a figure of less than 1% of the total workforce. Further, these expat pilots are mainly at a few airlines and NSOP's that have types not common in India ( eg. EMB 145/195 & various business jets ) where Indian nationals typed and experienced (examiners, captains etc) are unavailable .
Also, recently the ICAO has significantly boosted India's safety ranking (48'th from 102'nd 4 years ago) and I'm very positive on us doing much better as we all work on the areas that need improvement. Have a read here
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/icao-gives-indias-aviation-safety-highest-ever-ranking-global-ranking-jumps-from-102-to-48-now-above-china-turkey/articleshow/95963096.cms
It's quite clear that a few expats like Flying Clog KRviator etc have an axe to grind with India , maybe they've had a bad taste in their mouths from their previous stints in India but for those wishing to make the move to India , do come and share your experience, knowledge and skills with the growing number of highly motivated young Indian pilots we have but I'd suggest leave all preconceived notions about us & the country behind and make your own experience of our wonderfully diverse country.

masalama :ok:​​​​​​​

[WideScreen]

Whenever I speak with an Indian person, the complaints are always about other Indian people being incompetent, corrupt, fraudulent, or whatever.

All Indian people I did/do encounter in a professional (non-aviation) environment did/do have a high appreciation/ranking of their own capabilities, though from my point of view, it was just pure chaos, incompetence, bureaucratic, accomplishing nothing, mistakes are always somebody else's fault (anybody, Trump ???) and everything needed to be redone by a Western person, to obtain proper result. Across the board.

Having chaos, is a good starting point to create curries, etc. Take care to let it be a hot (in temperature) meal, to avoid personal chaos for the upcoming days.

Nothing personal, no racism, just observation and experience.

[B Fraser]

It's quite clear that a few expats like Flying Clog KRviator etc have an axe to grind with India , maybe they've had a bad taste in their mouths from their previous stints in India but for those wishing to make the move to India

Quoting Indian publications that describe the problem doesn't sound like having an axe to grind. The problem extends to neighbouring countries too.

Flight ban due to fake pilots caused PKR 7.9b loss: Pak aviation ministry (aninews.in) (https://www.aninews.in/news/world/asia/flight-ban-due-to-fake-pilots-caused-pkr-79b-loss-pak-aviation-ministry20210604161127/)

Biman Bangladesh Pilots Recruitment Exam: ACC finds scam | Daily Star (thedailystar.net) (https://www.thedailystar.net/frontpage/news/recruitment-biman-exams-manipulated-appoint-28-pilots-1832020)

[WhatShortage]

I find very hard to believe that India has that many current proficient and most important, REAL PILOTS to manage the unholy expected growth of the industry.

No one is blaming Indians for being Indians, they are just sick of the CASTA culture and belittling others just because of their surnames/status etc... And that's a FACT. I've seen and being told about Indian captains refusing to embark extracrew just because of: that surname poor people, no no no, not good, not possible. You all know that.

[Dynamite1]

Flying Clog Typically myopic from the boondocks. Unclog rather than strumming the banjo

[Dynamite1]

“I've seen and being told about Indian captains refusing to embark extracrew just because of: that surname poor people, no no no, not good, not possible.”
WhatShortage pl do no propagate such rubbish here. If indeed you have seen ; a serious shortage in perception that. Get real man. It is another matter though; that there seems something fishy with Air India asking for expats. Hopefully that gets corrected.

[jetsreams]

youve hit the nail on the head

[bobdazzle]

Perhaps the indian nationals need to look themselves in the mirror and ask WHY their national flag carrier is offering over double salary and lucrative benefits for the "foreigner" to come in and fly.

At least the recruitment firm will know and check the Pilot's licence and hours to be correct for a start!

Yeah. It takes blue eyes and pink nipples to be able to fly airplanes as we know.

[CatFourD]

Interesting thread. My take on the reason for the Offer being discussed: Tatas are being advised by Boston Consulting Group on HR issues. Its going to be a very steep uphill task considering what AI is currently made up of. Carsten Spohr termed these as Cultural Issues and said this is the biggest hurdle between AI and Global Standards. Basically a bunch of Unionised Permanent Staff, a lot of whom have got employment through either the State Policies of upliftment or through Corrupt practices which have been prevalent in all State Organisations for decades. They were ensconced in a World of entitlement with very less oversight and absolutely no accountability and no question of getting Fired unless they literally did something like a hull loss. Being Professional was a choice, not a requirement. How many exercised it correctly is anybody’s guess. With the entire lot from top to bottom being part of the above, they have to do some out of box thinking. The Offer discussed above appears to be part of a very well thought out strategy of infusing thoroughly Professional staff and attempting to bring about a change in the Org Culture. As has been brought out by others, no one in their right mind would want to get into this melee where there is likely hostility from the ensconced unless they are paid for it. Whether it works or not is anybody’s guess. Not an exact analogy but I would liken it to the current attempt by Imran Khan to take on the Powerful and Ensconced Pak Army.

[incredileAI]

"It is highly suspicious that Air India is now embarking on a hiring spree of foreign nationals with benefits that are far in excess of the existing Indian workforce through a recruitment firm. Why were recently selected experienced type rated Indian pilots directly selected from the market not offered the same terms and compensation forcing them to turn down those offers?"
After weeks of the new agreement of T&C been questioning by unions yesterday CEO spread the news 90% of cabin and the majority AI pilots have signed the T&C. Expats are facing bullying from several different directions, DGCA, AI staff, medical etc etc etc.

[Boeingdriver999]

“Blatant discrimination” lol 😂

Gosh. It’s almost like there are a class of humans who are untouchable! However on earth could that be??? In India of all places; the worlds largest democracy - untouchable by other western standards. A paragon of virtue and equity. Perish the thought of any sort of “blatant discrimination”.