Jerez/Spannish airspace & ground school top-up notes?

[Flygirl77]

Hi all,

Just come back from Jerez and am about to confirm my acceptance of a place for October, but have a few Q's for those familiar with Jerez:

1. WHAT IS THE AIRSPACE LIKE?......OATS made me a bit concerned that flying in Jerez is like flying on a farm in the middle of nowhere - hence you graduate with no propper airspace experience and no clue how to deal with any situation thrown at you, (unlike OATS ofcourse, who fly constantly in LHR and London area.)

2. OXFD GROUNDSCHOOL MANNUALS TO TOP-UP WITH?......One of the students there mentioned that it may be worth bringing a couple of Oxfd groundschool books just to top-up some of the weaker BAe ones, he mentioned Nav 1 (and then got called away) - which ones are the weak ones in need of back-up?

3. I've been offered a noise reduction headset for my birthday....are there any that don't work in Jerez?



Cheers for now,
and if any of you going in October want to get in touch, I'm on : [email protected]
;)

[Bluebaron]

I can´t believe oxford can make such comments when they are flying out of Tyler. Jerez is based in some of the busiest airspace in southern Spain. Right in the middle of class D not like Oxford. Also it has a VOR, Radar and ILS all essential for your training. So you don´t have to waste money transiting to other airports.

Also the cost at Jerez in considerably less and as you have seen the facilities are by far the best in the world, (as per comments from most visiting CAAFU examiners).

So there, look forward to seeing you here.

BB ;)

[Flygirl77]

Cheers BB,....what a relief!!!!......I will visit the bank this avo and call Mary Jo to confirm!

Looking forward to it.

p.s.....any comments re: the gs notes?

[Taking a Stand]

Well, the ground school notes are appaling at Jerez. Indeed the majority never get used and most students end up using Oxford's to pass the exams.

Its worth investing in a pair of headsets, the one's supplied in the aircraft are pretty much the bottom of the range and are left sitting in the sun while being transferred from sweaty head to sweaty head.

And as for the airspace, it has its plusses and minuses as does anywhere, but the hot weather comes with as many problems as does the bad UK wx.

Don't be lured on what you see of the grounds, and the accomodation, that won't get you your ATPL. Oxford may not be a pleasure paradise but they've got the basics right at least.

[haggard]

In total agreement with Taking,

BAE groundschool notes have always been notoriously ***** - just ask anyone who's trained with them during the last 15 or so years.

You'll need OATS Met, Airframes (excluding engines), Performance (crap instructor), Flight Planning and Nav for starters.

WX does throw a spanner in the works more than you'd think. Mist am, high temps pm, rain + wind in winter and crosswinds the rest of the time. If that isn't enough then the tower love nothing more than to lose your flight plan! :mad:

Novelty of campus wears off after a few weeks. Expect to pay for food as the ***** dished up in the canteen is worthy of Battersea dogs home and nothing more. ;)

Buy a headset - you don't wanna be sharing with all those sweaty geezers do you?

Stay happy. :)

haggard the horrible.

[moggie]

Haggard - wrong about the food, old pal. I eat there most days and the food is good - even if the 14 rotation on the menu gets a bit tiresome after a while.

Still, our ex-OATS students can't praise food and accom highly enough - they are less than complimentary about the OATS offerings (and I don't mean the porridge!).

That said, it is a long trip to the pub - but the cost saving on two rounds of drinks covers the taxi!!!!!! Long live low price Cervesas!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Any institutional food is going to grate after a year. Personally I found nothing wrong with it.

Its a bit pointless trying to rate schools on airspace issues. Jerez is great IF you can live out of the UK full time for a year AND you see being in Andalucia as a bonus. For some the blue gates are like a prison. For others the place is a holiday camp.

I fell into the latter category but it takes all sorts.

WWW

[haggard]

You chaps are easily pleased in the oral satisifaction dept.

I suggest the establishment 700 yards south west for your true satisfaction. ;)

haggard the horrible.

PS: Trust me - the food is not the flavour of the month..... 'scuse the pun..... :p

[Bluebaron]

At least the accommadation and food it included in the price. (ie it´s free compared to oxfords price) so stop moaning. I would like to see guys do better on a budget of 3 quid a day!

:D

[Taking a Stand]

Granted the food maybe included in the price but quite frankly it's so bad you'd rather this place was self catering and the price be further droped.

This place has the potential to be fantastic but the fact of the matter is that those who call the shots are happy for it to be mediocre, and mediocre it certainly is from a training point of view.

[moggie]

Take it from someone directly involved in the training - mediocre is not an option for us.

As for food and accom - I suggest you RESEARCH FULLY what the opposition have to offer before bad mouthing (pardon my pun!) our offerings.

Haggard and Taking a Stand - if it is so bad, why are you/were you here not somewhere else?

[haggard]

Hi moggie (MS?),

We are not bad mouthing the place just telling it how we see it. BAE does have considerable plusses which everyone knows about.

It is only fair to balance out all the bow-down and praise normally thrown at the place from first-time visitors. They see things through the eyes of eager beavers chomping at the bit to get cracking. Bad points of view are swept aside in the fashion described by Proone Towers on the EZ and FRA thread currently running.

Sorry if I do not lap up the Jerez "lifestyle in the sun" promotional nonsense. I feel the guys running the show have draconian views on management that stem from their days in the military.

If you are who I think you are then you are one of the good guys. ;)

Stay happy. :)

haggard the horrible.

[moggie]

I'm not who you think you are but I am one of the good guys, anyway! However, we think we know who YOU are!!!!!!!

Who says we all love it? There are warts, too, but I just take issue with you on the food front - see what the enemy has to offer first!

No comment on GS notes - not my field, I'm afraid.

[Catseyes]

all the guys who have come here from oxford to do joc couldn´t get enough of the food, and besides, if you do get bored there are great (cheap) restaurants in town and in puerto. as for the ground school notes, we don´t need the four forces ones, but i passed all my jars (first time) with the notes handed out in class, and didn´t use oxford once. :p i´m going to the pool now to top up the tan... you can´t do that in oxford....

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Don't get noise cancelling - it hampers your training.

DC's are OK but to ensure perfect harmony between you and your instructor get some bottom of the range Peltors at about £180.

Good luck,

WWW

[Taking a Stand]

Any pair of headsets will do, have your own pair for hygiene reasons if nothing else.

You would have thought that investing 52k would guarantee you a set of at least useable notes but since BAe still hasn´t got its act together having been here over 2 years just invest in a set of Oxford manuals because all you´ll get otherwise is endless scrappy one sided photocopies, how professional!

And if that wasn´t enough, as the new management´s first act in this place, a letter has been sent round to all students listing all the possible ways in which they can now terminate our contracts and have us booted out. Charming.

Take your money elsewhere, this place just isn´t up to scratch for the price tag.

[moggie]

Wow, Taking a Stand - If you hate it so much, go!

If you spent less time won the internet you might notice that in between lessons our ground instructors are beavering away re-writing our notes, primarily using the excellent (but superceeded) Prestwick CAA ATPL notes and the many source books out there (not plagirising other peoples notes, I have to add - but doing it from source data). OK, so what we have at the moment is less than perfect but progress is being made.

As for "chopping" people - are you self sponsored or airline sponsored?

I ask because if you are airline sponsored that airline will set a finite limit on how much extra training you may have before they pull the plug - they are after more than just a scrape-through, you must understand. Most airlines demand a higher standard from their cadets than the CAA/JAA minimum - and rightly so (because that standard is not high enough in my opinion).

If you are self sponsored, then we will only allow people to go on wasting money for a certain amount of time - because there are some people who will never make the grade, no matter how much money they throw at their training. Unlike some organisations, we do not feel the desire to take that money from cadets with no hope of them ever making the grade.

This is all explained at the time the contract is signed - and who are the "new management" to whom you refer - because the current guys have been in place for some time (except new Head of Training who has not even had time to unpack!).

Criticism is OK -as long as it is a) honest, b) accurate and c) constructive - if possible. If you think it is all so bad here, have you discussed your feelings with your sponsor or the management here (you mention MS who is one of the most approachable guys I know - having known him for years).

Be constructive - try to change what is wrong. Or belt up and live with it.

[Taking a Stand]

The fact of the matter is that when you are splashing out on your competitors material because what you are provided with is not good enough, well that simply won´t do.

My sponsors are well aware of the situation and quite frankly if I was them I´d be furious, it´s taken 2 years to get round to doing something about it.

The issues raised here are not pedantic little gripes, they are fundamentally important; people have been saying things long before I even arrived here but who listens?

Alot more could be said, but let´s leave it at that for the moment.

[Speed Addict]

Food at Jerez... hhhhhmmmmmmmmmm... Memories !!!
No comments lads, just LOL. Make sure you close your eyes and have plenty of toothpaste...

[AYR521]

Jean Marie? :D

[Speed Addict]

Breaking the silence of the lambs...

All the best to the others !

Ohh, by the way, I do recommend BAESFTE.
Overall probably one the best european FTO, even though there are -I think- a couple of very weak areas... Some top notch instructors, both in ground and flight training. Outstanding MCC.

Standards are still far far away from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, but don't forget FAA licences are almost useless in Europe...

[Worrals]

TAS, you are a brave but foolhardy person.

I agree with most of your comments.

Not too bothered about the food. Or the headsets. (Though I did get herpes on my ear from them).

But it´s a disgrace that we´re reliant on photocopies of other schools´notes. Questions and protests are fobbed off with "They´re fine, what´s the problem?" (When in fact in some subjects they are barely literate) or mumblings about improvements. The better instructors are beavering away at their own. But they shouldn´t have to.

And Moggie, "New management" is indeed the new HoT. He may barely have had time to unpack, but somewhere between putting socks in drawers, he has produced a two-page list of reasons for which our training "could" be "terminated".

None of that Getting To Know You rubbish, then...

Covering their rears now that the college has taken on too many students? Shurely not...

[Alex Whittingham]

Photocopies ofwhich school's notes?

[Angel´s One Fife]

Hmmm

[moggie]

Speed addict - thanks for the feedback - much appreciated! See, TAS/Haggard - constructive - you can be cruel to be kind, but just whining is pointless.

[flyerstar]

I think that JFT has been receiving unfair comments in this posting. Although some issues need to be addressed it is still fair to say that the school offers an aspiring pilot excellent training. Most of the ground instructors are very good and the flying altough slow to start off with is now progressing very well. It is obvious that weather will hamper flying. Regarding the issue of the ground school notes, i have been given photocopies for every topic which contain what is needed. I am sure that most of the notes are being re-written. There is no harm in referring to other notes if some points need to be clarified. However, feedback definitely need to be better orgainsed in some subjects.

As regards the juicy topic (FOOD!- excuse the pun), it is on rotation so one would tend to see it similair after some time. I do get bored of it. However there is always an assortment of fresh salads if the hot section is not appealing and you can always make a toast, a sandwich or otherwise have some fruit. Otherwise off to pizzahut or to some other fast food chain if the tastebuds totally refuse.

The surrounding area is also nice with good beaches and white villages. Personally i think that owning a car makes it easier to enjoy so aspiring cadets would be wise to invest in one. Prices are not that expensive though insurance is.

For some pictures visit our site http://www.kmcadets.com
Check the GALLERY section.

Finally all i can add is that 1 year is quite a long time to spend away fom home yet is passes very quickly, some of us lads play football in the evenings, others go to the pool, others play tennis or spend the night in the tv room. All in all i would definitely give it a thumbs up!


hey...its only my 2 cents....

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

So what happened to Steve Green?

WWW

[Worrals]

AW ... Aren´t there only two sets of notes worth plagiarising? Whose do you think?

To whoever said the photocopies are a "back-up" or some such.. No. In many subjects, they are all we have. Not for nothing are the industrial photocopiers here often U/S, dissolved in a heap of smouldering metal.

Moggie: One person´s "whining" is another person´s Vital Information. These things need saying.

[Catseyes]

i was never given photocopies of other school´s notes, the photocopies we get given are from the old bae prestwick notes, and as the syllabus has changed, we only get given the sections we need. the instructors (in between teaching classes) are re-writing the notes, but it can´t be done overnight, give them a chance... if you feel you need more notes then by all means, buy more, but as i said before, i passed all 14 jars without having to do that, and i had no previous flying experience before coming here.
the only comment i have (as flyerstar said) is that some of the feedback could be better organised (instruments especially).

(oh, and www, steve has been "relocated")

[Angel´s One Fife]

Speed Addict.... you talk of standards being differant. How so?

Do you think that if I was an American CPL/IR I would find the course very easy and finish well below syllabus hours.