Did you ever dread lessons?

[Flock1]

I am a 31 year old, currently doing a PPL, and up until recently, I had always really looked forward to the next lesson.

But this has stopped.

In fact, I now dread having lessons, and I am thinking about stopping.

But a bit of background is needed I think.

At first everything was great. I got on very well with my instructor and was taught to fly an aeroplane. And later, when I was sent solo, I was apprehensive, but ended up loving it, and so did my 4 hours of solo circuit bashing with a permanent grin etched on my face. I was now on top of the world. I was one of the few fortunate people who had actually taken off, flown around and landed a plane all by myself! What could possibly be better?

But then my instructor went on a much needed holiday, and he told me that I was going to fly with his friend. He told me that this new instructor had a completely different style to him, but that I would be fine and would have no problems. Anyway, this new instructor seemed okay, and even though I was very disappointed at a sudden change, I thought that it would be perhaps good for me to fly with someone new. It would take away the 'comfort zone' that I had established with my first instructor.

But it soon became clear, that the new instuctor and me were not going to get on. He had an established teaching style that worked on the principle of abuse. He would swear and rant at certain errors that I made, which made me feel very uncomfortable. However, because he went on at me so much, I did actually learn things from him.

But then I was switched to another instructor, who I got on well with, so all was well in the land of PPL. Or so I thought.

On hour 27 or so, I was once again back with the instructor who used abuse as a teaching technique, and I didn't look forward to the lesson. My girlfriend told me to cancel it and wait for my original instructor to come back form his holiday, but I thought that I would carry on.

That next lesson was today, and I was so uncomfortable during the whole lesson, that it was a godsend that we landed after only an hour. The nameless instructor told me that I had better improve soon, or else I would fail my general flight test.

He said that I was far too lax with the trim wheel, and that I let the aircraft fly itself to much. He told me that my landing was pathetic, and that I would be laughed at if one of the chief examiners flew with me. (He did say that I'd done various things really well, but understandibly, I was depressed.) He told me that if i didn't like what I was hearing, then I was a fool to myself.

I did know that I was lax with the trim, and various other things, but it was this instructors manner that I wasn't happy with. If I was paying about £100 for a lesson, then I wanted to at least enjoy it.
The instructor qualifed his manner, by saying that everything he'd told me was what any other instuctor would say, but that other instructors would not say it so plainly. He then, quite rightly pointed out, that because I was on a tight budget, that his style of 'telling it how it was' would work out cheaper for me. And thought I listened to him, I felt like just going home and forgetting about this whole idea of learing to fly.

When I first thought about doing a PPL, I thought that it would be fun and exciting, and that i would look foreward to each lesson. I certainly didn't expect what I am feeling now. In fact, if it was raining tomorrow, I would be glad.

Rant over.

I have put this post here, in the hope that some of you PPL'ers will have gone through what I have, and will offer me some advice or help. or even sympathy. Because after nearly 30 hours of lessons, with the glory of the first solo under my belt, I am ready to call it a day.

[READY MESSAGE]

That is no way for an instructor to treat any student. All students find some parts of the PPL course difficult, even though they are enjoying the challenge as you were until the change of instructor. It is the job of the instructor to not only iron out these difficulties but also to encourage students through the course. Nobody (except perhaps the ego of the said instructor) benefits from these outbursts. I have come across several instructors who rule their lessons by fear and it quite simply - as in this case - doesn't work.

As an instructor I can say that on occasions it is difficult when a student consistently disregards any information/advice you may deliver, but that is no excuse to bite the head off the poor chap/chapess. Suggesting that someone may fail a flight test is unforgiveable. It is most unreasonable that you were spoken to like that. This chap seems to need to reconsider his attitude.

My advice to you would be not to fly with him again. You must fly with your original instructor as soon as possible and get yourself back into enjoying going flying. A change of instructor for a couple of hours mid course is a good practice as it does check for complacency and gets rid of the comfort zone you have acquired. It looks like you have had a rough experience with this. Back to original instructor and off you go again.

Happy Flying!!

[flyboy6876]

Flock1

As I work away quite a bit, my PPL has been running over a couple of years and in that period I've been through a couple of instructors and have not had the problem that you're having.

READY MESSAGE's comment is quite right. Don't fly with that instructor again as it is destroying something that you seem to enjoy doing. I personally would complain to the chief instructor in the club and let him know how you feel about this instructor.

As a diving instructor the last thing I would ever consider doing would be to abuse any of the students as this would simply create anxiety and the chance of much creater error than they were abused for.

Don't give up on the flying just because some dumass does'nt know how to instruct properly. Stick with it and prove him wrong.

Good luck

[mattpilot]

hell, if someone i'm paying would yell at me, i'd take his kneeboard and stuff it up his arse. :mad: :D

Luckily i have never flown with someone who is that stuck up - fortunatly most instructors know that such actions wont get them far.

What you have to do is actually tell him that your not going to take that from him. Stand up for yourself - even if its mid-air. Worst thing, or better yet - the best thing, thats going to happen is that he wont fly with you anymore and you'll get a new instructor.

I had a buddy once who went up with his instructor to do some instrument training. He was Pre-PPL and under the hood. After 10 min of S&L flight and hearing nothing from his instructor, he peeked and saw him asleep. What my buddy did was take the hood and throw it into his face - literally. He told him off.

Always remember - its your money - you decide who gets it. And when you wave money around, people will concede to it.

:cool:

[tinyrice]

Flock 1 some good advice here, and here's my two cents worth. Like you, I flew with one instructor till my first solo. After that I flew with what seemed like a different instructor every trip. I had actually decided that this just wasn't worth it, because I just didn't seem to be getting anywhere, when I bumped into one of the clubs instructors down the pub ( go figure ). He asked how it was going, and I told him that I was done. We talked for a bit, and he asked me to fly with him for an hour. If I was still unhappy, the hour was on him. Well we went flying. We found out I really didn't bother trimming the aircraft ( rugby player no sweat ), that being a aircraft mechanic by trade I was spending too much time fiddling in the cockpit instead of outside looking. Bottom line I really didn't get it, but it needed someone with some consideration and professionalism to get it across. I got my CAA PPL, but I dont fly anymore as my gross weight now exeeds the gross weight of any aircraft I can afford to rent. But no ****** can take away the feeling. You're paying this plonkers wages - tell him where the bear ****s in the woods. If he doesn't have the CRM skills you need, get another instructor or wait for your main man to come back from hols. You have way too much personally and financially invested to let this neanderthal deprive you of the incontestable feelings you can get from flight. Here endeth todays sermon...

[AerBabe]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. A student/instructor relationship is a very close one, and it's important you get it right. I've never been this unlucky, but another lass in my club has, and she told her instructor to f**k off after one lesson. Not the most diplomatic way of handling it, but she got her point across :) Now she flies with my instructor, and is making rapid progress.

As has been said, you are spending £100 an hour to do this. Ask yourself why. Is it because you enjoy flying? Well you're not doing so flying with this guy! So he's getting things through to you? So what! Take longer with someone else and enjoy the time. It's not a race!

:)

[maggioneato]

Dump the sad b*****d, I had one Instructor like that while my nice one was away, felt like opening the door and pushing him out.Don't give up,you don't have to fly with someone like that, just book in with someone else and don't accept a booking with him.Good luck.:cool:

[Aerobatic Flyer]

Hi,

a) Don't quit. The "on top of the world" feelings you've had so far are nothing compared to the ones you will have in the future!:)

b) Change instructor.

c) If the instructor who said the examiner would laugh at you is young, point out that he'll never get an airline job with an attitude like that!

d) While flying with someone different, concentrate on doing right the things that he pointed out you were doing wrong!

e) Everyone goes through a phases where things go wrong and you seem unable to fly properly. With me, this phase was in the hours leading up to my GFT. Don't let it get you down.

[Hornetboy]

G'day to everyone, a new poster to this forum here. Been dropping in for a couple months ever since I got that shiny new PPL, and now found something I just have to reply to.

Flock1, I can totally identify with your feelings of dread for each upcoming lesson. It can be extremely discouraging. But a bit of background first . . .

Loved flying from the start, and enjoyed it up to the change of flying schools, when I began my navigation training. Got an instructor who was new to the job, and quite clearly very much present to build his hours. There I was trying my best to learn and re-learn at the same time with a new flying school (heavy on SOP's) and he would sometimes yell and often swear, getting impatient quickly and really creating a difficult environment to learn in. After speaking to a few of my friends who had the same instructor, I learnt that he had a pretty bad trend going with his students so far.

I know it can be hard knowing what you're paying for and remembering how fun flying can really be. But I suggest learning from this guy what you can about dealing with these people. Learn what you can about how you deal with heated cockpit situations. We won't always be flying with or around people we naturally get along with and I feel it is important to learn what you can from these situations.

Try talking to the guy. Let him know the effect he is having on your motivation, etc. Too often people are allowed to carry on with unacceptable behaviour simply because no one has ever laid down some simple things for them.

If all else fails, then you know ya just gotta give 'em the flick. Explain your situation to the chief and request a new instructor. But make sure you go through the proper channels, consulting your instructor first. (Then you'll always be able to look him in the eye.)

Simple?

Maybe not. But nothing in aviation is and quitting is simply not the answer. Seeking advice was the first right step. I seeked a lot from my family, and it sure helped. Once you figure things out, the fun in flying WILL come back, and it'll be worth it ;-)

I think I've said enough. If you want to hear what happened with my instructor, I'm quite willing to share (the story actually had a happy ending). But for the purposes of advice, the rest of the story is not necessary. I hope I've given you something useful :)

[Grim Reaper 14]

Sounds daft, but print a copy of this thread off, and show people at your school, see what they say, then take it in to the CFI, see his/her reaction and explain your situation. Screw the effect it has on your instructor! Your money is currently being wasted. Special offer!! I can cut your costs in half!!!!! Give me the money, stop flying, I'll give you half back. Now that sounds really daft right? Well it's a better situation for us both, so get your @rse in gear, use the enthusiasm that's still in there somewhere and tell your instructor to stick it where your money won't go.

Sorry if that sounds harsh and unfeeling, I know you're in a tough spot, but unless you act quickly, your confidence will reduce, you will give up, and that's another family member gone. Change instructor, keep posting, let us know how you get on, and get yourself to a fly-in!:D

[long final]

Flock,

HornetBoy - (Then you'll always be able to look him in the eye.)

Pretty important in a flying school environment. The instructor is wrong in his method, everyone seems to agree, so I won't go on about that, but you really must explain to both the instructor and the chief that you will not be taking any more bookings with him and why - otherwise you will still feel uncomfortable visiting the club. If that doesn’t work, sod the whole club and move elsewhere, it’s your money.

On a side to that, I was in a very similar situation to you, when I had an instructor, who, when was having a bad day, made the students life hell. On one lesson, by 400ft I had had enough. He had criticised everything I had done from the start. When he asked why I hadn't done X, I explained very loudly that it was because I was learning to fly and he was supposed to be F*****G teaching me. 5 mins of complete silence ensued.

I spend many hours instruction with him after that, without problem, including my IMC and learnt a hell of a lot from an experienced and competent pilot. Sometimes people just need telling.

Hope you don't give it up though, it's well worth it in the end - and consider this - they wouldn't have let you go solo if you where a lost hope. ;)

Regards,
LF

[rustle]

Skip forward two years...

You've got your PPL and about 150 hours P1.

You're off on a flying trip with your wife ;) at about 3500' when all of a sudden the engine stops (SEP for sake of argument)

All of a sudden that voice comes booming into your head, "TRIM, TRIM FOR BEST GLIDE YOU USELESS <insert suiitable expletive here>"

So you trim. So you make a FL. So you both survive.

Is he still an A-Hole then?

[tacpot]

Yes, he is still an ar**hole.

But you are paying the Instructor to criticise your flying, so that you can improve. Learning a new skill, especially a demanding skill such as flying, will always be difficult. A good instructor will keep the pressure on most of the time to get the best effect of time in the air, but equally they should allow some unpresssured time for you to realise why you are doing it - to soak up the triumph and elation of each new step forward.

Some instructors just have a bad way of passing on this criticism. When I flew in the UAS, one of the instructors had a habit of hitting your hand if you reached for a control when he didn’t think it was needed. Eventually I got pretty scared of doing anything and it really held my flying back and made the prospect of a lesson with this particular instructor very daunting. Luckily I didn’t have to fly with him very much.

But do stick with it - I assure you the end result is absolutely worth it.

[Holloway]

Im new to all this, but I tell you the few lessons I have had and I had a couple of instructors and they have made me feel really confident and beena great help and spent time at the end of the day giving me tips and help.

I would complian to the flying club who im sure wold be sympathetic with you if you explianed to them the situiation.

Dont let some arsehole ruin your PPL, Mug him off and find someone new. Just think ur nearly there and when you get there you wont need to fly with anyone but your choice ( eg mates , family )

Stick with it, hes proberly caught his wife with someone else!!:D

[Southern Cross]

Constructive criticism, however communicated, should be good if you remember it...but if it interferes with the reason why you are doing it in the first place, presumably because you love flying and it is supposed to be fun, then you can get that constructive criticism from a source that does not need to communicate it abusively.

I like the idea of the clipboard up his jacksie suggested by someone earlier...

...twice...

[Cat.S]

Stick with the flying, but ditch the instructor!

I took up flying to get over a fear of flying caused by a number of helicopter incidents in the military which kept me from flying in anything for 25 years. To say I was a nervous student would be an extreme understatement! When my first instructor went off to fly big-uns, a week after I had bent an aircraft in a landing accident on my third solo, I was given another instructor, who although a really nice guy and excellent pilot, was very young and wasn't getting anywhere with neurosis-ridden me.

Luckily, I was learning with a very professional outfit who realised this and substituted him for the assistant CFI and another, older AFI, who double-teamed me. I'd fly with one to our main training field and back with the other, and all of a sudden things clicked. Instead of dreading flying, I began to enjoy it. One instructor hammered home the technique in a persistant, but patient way, the other gave me confidence and made me realise I could do it. Had it not been for these two I would never have got my licence.

Moral of the story- if you aren't 100% happy with your instructor you won't progress.

[SlowRoll]

i think many of us have been there....do not give up!!!!!!

i had a similar experience on my 4th PPL lesson, during slow flight exercises.
my instructor was the Bud Spencer type of guy....a man of few words. During the preflight briefing he would explain the lesson's basics and set my objectives. Once in the air he would demonstrate how it had to be done and then let me do it. Needless to say, i didn't always get it right either the first time or the second or the third time.....by then he would start getting impatient and even pissed off at my slow progress and grab the controls to make some really harsh "corrective" input, followed by loud exclamation like "ATTITUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!" or "POWER!!!!!!!!!".

this really got on my confidence and by lesson 4 i was one inch away from giving up flying, as i thought i would never learn it.

i had a chat about it with a good friend, that was also doing his PPL, who managed to convince me not to quit but to change instructor instead. so i did. i never told him my reasons for changing, but i guess someone else at the club did.

some 6 months later i was a proud holder of a shiny new PPL.
at that point i had regained my confidence and even accepted to make various type ratings with that instructor, including my aerobatic endorsement.
eventually, i got to know him better and now i litterally love flying with him. i appreciate his honest and direct way of telling things.

of the couple instructors i have had lessons with, he definitely is the one with the worst communication skills (by now he knows that too) but his flying skills are superior to anyone else i have flown with by such a large margin, that he is the only one i am willing to spend my money on.

from a couple of discussions i had with him on the subject of his teaching i realised that he was aware of coming across the wrong way, especially to low houred students, however he genuinely never meant to put off anyone. He has improved a lot since then....

i guess he simply needed someone to tell him and some time to accept and adapt.

[dublinpilot]

Bottom line is you are

a) not enjoying your flying
b) not learning because of the environment you find yourself in.

Solutions:
A) talk to instructor, and explain the situation
B) change instructor (& possibly talk to CFI if you want)
C) change school
D) give up flying,
E) continue as is.

Rule out option d & e.

Wheter a,b or c is the solution for you, is up to you.

Personally I'd just change instructor. I wouldn't bother saying why, just request to fly with a particular instructor. If some asks you why, then I'd just say personality differences, and leave it at that. Chances are you won't be asked why. They will already know, because you won't be the first to ask to change.

Where I learnt we had different instructors for each lesson. After a while, there were some I liked, and some (one in particular) I didn't like. (No abuse, just didn't find his teaching methods parted much information to me.) When I was making bookings, I requested to fly with the instructors that I wanted to, and if they wern't available, I ask about the next day, or the next, until I found one they were free on. Later having meet some other SPL's at a social function, I discovered all the other students were doing the same!! Nobody wanted to fly with this particular instructor. I suspect your instructor will be the same. Other people will be trying to change.

Look at the problem constructivly and decide whether solution a, b or c is best for you. But pick one.

You shouldn't have to put up with that sort of abuse.

[Coke611]

You should definately change instructor.

Flying is not by any means a cheap thing to do, so if you are spending all that money, you should at least enjoy learning to fly; after all, thats the purpose of getting the license isnt it?

Down to Le 2K, Jersey, all around the coutry, flying in different countries all around the world, that is the reason yopu are getting the license, so dont let any idiotic instructor stop you.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Southern x:

Then send him a bill for services rendered. :)

His instructors license should be cancelled...quickly...

Cat Driver:

[Piper Warrior Pilot]

If an instrucotr spoke to me like that, not only would i put him on the floor, id be making a complaint to the flying school.

One of my friends had an instructor similar to the one you describe. Basically, my mate gave him a piece of his mind and got everything off his chest. No more problems after that. The same went with my Mum with her driving instructor.

Take him through all 12 rounds if he can handle it.

[Wrong Stuff]

Flock1's gone very quiet. First post too. There's a faint whiff of troll in the air...

[Wily Coyote]

My instructor doesn't yell much and when he swears it's usually in jest. What he does do is nag and nag and nag and nag...

I get nagged for losing/gaining 100 feet, nagged for dropping speed by 5 knots or so, nagged for being too tense, etc, etc.

You get the idea :)

But it works better than any other teaching technique I've ever come across and I will be eternally grateful.

And when I have an engine failure, I won't be remembering someone swearing and hurling abuse at me. No, I'll just keep hearing that nagging! It will undoubtably keep me out of trouble for years to come :)

Wily

[rustle]

Wrong Stuff

There's a faint whiff of troll in the air...
Shirley you're not suggesting this belongs in the "Agony Aunt Forum" are you?

[Whirlybird]

I agree with everyone else; ditch this guy - he shouldn't be an instructor. I'm speaking from experience; I had someone very similar, stuck with him because someone I respected had told me to, and ended up with almost no confidence and scared to drive to the airfield, never mind fly. It took me ages to get over it, and added lots of time and money to my course - please learn from my experience; stop flying with this creep NOW!

I ended up with a quiet, calm chap who very gently demanded that I do the best I can. I still heqr his voice talking to me at times - insistently, quietly, and calmly. I think that's the kind of voice I'd like to hear in an emergency.

Telling the instructor and/or the CFI is a good idea, but if you don't feel able to, then just change instructor. It's your money, and what they think doesn't matter.

But please don't give up. Despite the fact that a fair proportion of my PPL course was an absolute nightmare, it was all worth it in the long run - flying is wonderful.:) :) :)

[Flock1]

Firstly, many, many thanks to all of you out there who have taken the time to reply. I have read and re-read everything that has been written and I am so pleased that I decided to gain your opinions, rather than just jackiing it all in (even though it was thaaaat close.)

Anyway, what I did was this......

I rang them up and told them that I was not happy about flying with this certain instructor. Obviously, the bloke on the other end of the phone asked me why. I told him the truth, and that it was basically a confidence issue. I did not feel relaxed with instructor X, and so I was told that swapping instructors would be no problem at all.

He told me to ignore what had been said by instructor X, and told me that other instructors who I'd flown with had said that i was a very capable student.

He also added that my original instructor was due back from his hols tomorrow, and that I would be booked in with him from then on. He also told me that I would never have to fly with instructor X again. (Incidentally, he did add that people in the past had complained about my original instructor, and so had swapped to instructor X with no problems. So obviously, personality is an issue with regard to student/instructor relationships.)

Anyway, I had eased my problem, but I still had to face instructor X whenever I turned up for a lesson. As it happened, I had a lesson today, thankfully, not with instructor X, but with the instructor who taught me during the solo circuit bashing portion of the course, and so I went for my lesson.

Instructor X's car was parked outside, and so I steelded myself for a nasty confrontation. But this never happened. Instructor X had obviously decided to just ignore me, and this was fine by me. (Yes, we are both children!)

I went up with the other instructor, who knew exactly what had been going on, and he told me that that instructor X was a good instructor, who had helped lots of people through their PPL's and higher ratings, but he agreed that he had an abrupt and rather fearsome manner. He told me that instructor X spoke before thinking, but that he usually didn't mean anything by it. He also added that on today's lesson, we would have a chilled out session, so that I could regain some of my confidence and enthusiasm for flying.

I did enjoy the lesson, (on basic navigation and map reading), and am happy to say that I will be continung with the PPL. I just hope that other student's, who are possibly in the position that I've been in, will read this thread and take note of all the advise that's been given. As a student, you should not have to put up with being made to feel a failure. You should not be going home after your lesson feeling like youv'e just been put through a mangle. Flying should be fun, it should be enjoyable, and hopefully, I will start feeling this again very soon.

[Wrong Stuff]

Oooh! Cynical old me. Mea culpa...

As a penance may I be the first to congratulate Flockey on getting things sorted.

[sunnysideup]

If an instructor, or a flying school, cannot take a request from you to fly with or not fly with an instructor without taking it personally or making you feel guilty or demanding an explaination then they don't deserve your hard-earned. Or anyone elses.

Simple.

If you were to give up flying because of an instructor like this then he/she ought to have their licence revoked.

And if the school hasn't picked up the fact that an instructor can't deal with this sort of thing or that they are trying desperately to keep you in his/her little group so they don't lose flight pay, then the owners or Management ought to collectively have AFEs entire stock of kneeboards shoved up where the sun don't shine.

When will people who work in a, let me remind you, LEISURE industry, (you know, where people spend a lot of their leisure time and money), stop bitching or feeling hard done by because they chose to commit to a career where they know there is little pay or getting all elitist and looking down on the people who pay their wages and remember they get to fly for free and have the smell of Avgas in their nostrils all day and stop being so bloody short-sighted.

Not that this is a particularly emotive subject for me, you understand.

[rustle]

Pardon my cynicism too...

Glad you sorted it, hope you enjoy the rest of your course. :)

When you finish your PPL, do an Aero course, learn dog-fighting techniques, then you can chase your nemesis around the skies ;)

[TruthSlayer]

No doubt there's another side to this story. There's been some pretty harsh comment without hearing it...

[Plastic Cockpit]

Flock1,

I have been out of town for a few days and was disgusted to read your sorry plight.

Please do not let any of this whole exercise put you off. I see you are persevering and that is admirable. You are a STUDENT pilot. You need to be encouraged through the skill and knowledge processes of flying. You pay money for an INSTRUCTOR to teach you. Unfortunately your money seems to have gone towards some self-centred egotistical star who should not even be the holder of a CPL.

I am now an airline Captain who came through the ranks and spent numerous years as a Cheif Flying Instructor. So I have seen the varying personalities of numerous instructors. And the type you describe tend to be the Macho, "This is how good I am and what I can do" ones who have something to prove. Just take a look around the flying school lounges and you will spot the ones who tend to talk of their own exploits a lot. You will invariably find tose who sit and listen are the more perceptive instructors.

I personally do not think the attack on your ability is warranted at all. Furthermore it is a well known fact that those instructors who do shout and swear are indeed covering their own failings. If you have made an error of judgement or decision making, obviously the said instructor either doesn't know what went wrong or doesn't know how to teach you to remedy it. I have even been witness to an occasion where a similar outburst jeopardised an Instructors privilege to retain a CAA medical certificate.

This sort of carry on would certainly be unwelcome in an airline environment let alone the important CRM models required for Flight Training. Do not feel uncomfortable when you next see this Instructor as he is an Instructor by name only and would certainly not be welcome in my team.

[Whirlybird]

Plastic Cockpit,

Good point, about these guys never making it in the airlines. It reminded me - the instructor who destroyed my confidence at an early stage of my training just couldn't wait to get to the airlines; he'd tell me about it in the early days when we were still on chatting terms. Nearly five years later, he still hadn't got that airline job. I was even beginnning to feel sorry for him; not that he deserved it.

[rustle]

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
But what the hell.

Based on one posting this instructor is obviously beyond contempt :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[long final]

rustle,

By nature of the beast, bulletin boards will nearly always be one sided. One of the reasons names are not mentioned.

As contributors we have to take posters comments as fact, challenge or ignore responding. Ignoring every disputable comment would lead to a very dull board.

Now, whether the above situation has actually happened or not, it appears to be a common issue for people, so surely it is a positive debate as long as instructors names are not mentioned?

Regards,

LF

[rustle]

LF,

Not suggesting for one second that real issues should be ignored.

My posting fits with your model of "...take posters comments as fact, challenge or ignore..." :), I just didn't default to the first :p

A dull old place it would be if everything was automatically taken as "fact"

[long final]

:)

[VIKKI]

yeah after my first solo i had to wait 4 months for my next one cus i broke my foot and couldnt fly when i started again i found it really difficult and thought of quitting but i got thru it with help and now i love every minute of it. I was helped by my instructor who always encouraged me when i got down

dont put up with any instructor your not happy with ask for a change you are the paying customer so dont put up with it

[MLS-12D]

Excellent post, dublinpilot.

Flock1's experience reminds me of Diane Ackerman's book, "On Extended Wings: An Adventure in Flight", which I would recommend to anyone else concerned about the quality of flight instruction. :)

I can't see any justification for an instructor bullying, shouting, swearing, or implying that a student is stupid or hopeless. Okay, there are very occasionally students who ARE hopeless [see generally www.avweb.com/articles/eyeofexp/eoe0042.html], but that problem should be dealt with fairly and in a caring manner.

I appreciate Hornetboy's point that an abusive instructor is a good CRM opportunity to learn how to deal with less-than-ideal conditions, but that presumes that the student already has a reasonably good grasp on basic flying skills.

[pondlife]

I've just read with some interest as an instructor myself. Seems to me that when he returned your original instructor handled the situation very well and very diplomatically without any unecessary slagging anyone off. Seems that you have too.

From my own experience, there are a very few students who do need a degree of shouting at. I, personally, find that strange because I know that I couldn't learn properly with someone shouting at me and so I find it very hard to do it. For those people, I am not a good instructor for them and I would hope that they'd go to one of my colleagues. For the majority of students who learn best when encouraged, I seem to be OK for them.
The point that I'm clumsily trying to make is that it's not right to say that a particular instructor should not have their CPL or should not be an instructor just because their style doesn't suit you, but you have the absolute right to refuse to fly with them and to choose one who's style does.
Sounds like everyone you've spoke to at your flying school recognised this and dealt with the situation as they should have once you pointed out to them that this particular instructor wasn't working for you.
Personally I think that some of the posters on this thread have not quite got this, though I must agree that this particular instructor may have taken things rather too far before seeing if you're one of these few students who does work better with negative rather than positive criticism.

Of course, the ultimate instructor would be able to change his or her style totally according to what was best for the student - but very few of us are able to do that to the extent that's sometimes required. Luckily there are enough instructors about that it doesn't matter so much as long as students are honest enough to say when a particular instructor's style doesn't work for them.

I'm very pleased that you have resolved this situation now and that you're not going to let this instructor put you off flying.