Willing to leave RHS for LHS qatar/emirates

[maskara]

Hello everyone,

Im a stupid captain who did the upgrade in a major european airline. Dont ask why i am stupid, just think twice before you tell us how bad management is in qatar and/or emirates...
​​​​​​Anyway,
can you get for example 4 days off in a row and put a week of anual leave also together? Can I split the 42 days in week blocks or its not possible?
In days off can I go home or do I need permission from the company to leave the country?
I heared different stories..

[Mgggpilot]

Yes you can
Yes you can.
No you don't need permission.

One piece of advice , don't listen to the "different stories" PREIOD

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Hello everyone,

Im a stupid captain who did the upgrade in a major european airline. Dont ask why i am stupid, just think twice before you tell us how bad management is in qatar and/or emirates...
​​​​​​Anyway,
can you get for example 4 days off in a row and put a week of anual leave also together? Can I split the 42 days in week blocks or its not possible?
In days off can I go home or do I need permission from the company to leave the country?
I heared different stories..
in ek you cannot put 4 days off together with leave
in ek you also won’t get 42 days leave splittend into small pieces (like week junks) granted
you don’t need permission but to fill a off base form more or less telling them where you are and there is a rule off being acclimatized for you next duty requiring you being back the one night before the next duty

this was valid pre pandemic and can’t recall an changes to that

[777JockeyIN]

Did you mean leaving LHS for RHS QR/EK?

[White Sausage]

Why would someone leave an European carrier with rights and laws and join any ME outfit with stupid rules and regulations that make your life a living hell??? Money ain’t everything, quality of life should count too. And quality of life you won’t have for sure in the ME as a flying zombie…

[maskara]

Why would someone leave an European carrier with rights and laws and join any ME outfit with stupid rules and regulations that make your life a living hell??? Money ain’t everything, quality of life should count too. And quality of life you won’t have for sure in the ME as a flying zombie…

Probably you were employed in europe in a flag carrier and you believe there are rights and laws that companies do follow..

[WrldWide]

Yes you can
Yes you can.
No you don't need permission.

One piece of advice , don't listen to the "different stories" PREIOD
More like: re QR
​​​​​​. Maybe
​​​​​​. Yes but expect to work 90+ hrs in the remaining 22 days of the month in which 1 week is lve
​​​​​​. No you don't need permission

Cheers

[rudestuff]

Did you mean leaving LHS for RHS QR/EK?
To be fair the word 'stupid' was used twice...

[BigGeordie]

It sounds like the OP is planning on trying to commute. If that is the case, forget it. It is almost impossible at any ME airline and the stress will kill you.

[maskara]

It sounds like the OP is planning on trying to commute. If that is the case, forget it. It is almost impossible at any ME airline and the stress will kill you.
Not commute but go home every two months for a week or 10 days. Stress for going home why?

[nimrodjoe]

,
can you get for example 4 days off in a row and put a week of anual leave also together? Can I split the 42 days in week blocks or its not possible?
In days off can I go home or do I need permission from the company to leave the country?
I heared different stories..

Yes , 4 days off in a row and can add leave to that as well. Emirates always roaster you a good four days off before leave and usually 2/3 days after leave off to break you in gently . They nearly always make sure your sims are prior to your leave also , and they tend to avoid ULRs always straight after leave .

Days off are completely your own, Emirates will never change these , contact you , expect you to do online modules or track you when using their staff travel and e gate . Days off are taken very seriously here. They are very understanding about people seeing their families in their home country and make this a priority.

Your family’s happiness is their number 1 priority and if you want small tweaks to any issue no matter how large or small , they are always very accommodating to any such requests, usually going above and beyond to put things right asap for you.

[Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP]

That's the best post ever Nimrodjoe. PMSL.

[svp]

Why would someone leave an European carrier with rights and laws and join any ME outfit with stupid rules and regulations that make your life a living hell??? Money ain’t everything, quality of life should count too. And quality of life you won’t have for sure in the ME as a flying zombie…

i don't see quality of life in Europe anymore

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Yes , 4 days off in a row and can add leave to that as well. Emirates always roaster you a good four days off before leave and usually 2/3 days after leave off to break you in gently . They nearly always make sure your sims are prior to your leave also , and they tend to avoid ULRs always straight after leave .

Days off are completely your own, Emirates will never change these , contact you , expect you to do online modules or track you when using their staff travel and e gate . Days off are taken very seriously here. They are very understanding about people seeing their families in their home country and make this a priority.

Your family’s happiness is their number 1 priority and if you want small tweaks to any issue no matter how large or small , they are always very accommodating to any such requests, usually going above and beyond to put things right asap for you.

i love that bright shinning sun over an idealistic world which needs to be invented first.
man’s don’t forget this accommodating absolute no punishment culture.

[Skyfl410]

i don't see quality of life in Europe anymore

I fully agree with you! Everyone is ready to point the finger at ME for rights ECC ECC... I'm currently working in the EU I can guarantee its worst

If you get a chance to go to the Middle East, don't think twice.

[nimrodjoe]

EU is really bad and so is the UK. Scotland even wants to leave that.

I hate to have to say it as a Welshman, but those places above are just oppressive and corrupt. Ireland is worse yet, couldn’t even get a pint of doom bar last month in Dublin. Serving in 500ml glasses. WTF ? Completely unacceptable as they still charged the same price.

Things can’t get any worse. The cost of living in the west will plunge them back to the 19th century. On a heathrow layover recently I saw people back riding penny-farthings and the hotel now uses dial up internet again .

Escape to Middle East, Asia or Africa and be liberated!!!

[White Sausage]

I fully agree with you! Everyone is ready to point the finger at ME for rights ECC ECC... I'm currently working in the EU I can guarantee its worst

If you get a chance to go to the Middle East, don't think twice.

Yes, go to the ME, they are waiting for people like you. Don’t listen to the people who live or used to live there, what do they know. You know much better 🤦‍♂️
Meanwhile I’m enjoying my 4-6 off days in a row after every trip while being protected by laws and civilization…

[SOPS]

Not commute but go home every two months for a week or 10 days. Stress for going home why?

It will never work …and also remember if you get sick, and I mean long term sick ( let’s say you break your leg and you are to be in plaster for 9 weeks), you can’t go just go home because you need help to get around. You need permission from EK to leave Dubai. EK control your life.

[maskara]

It will never work …and also remember if you get sick, and I mean long term sick ( let’s say you break your leg and you are to be in plaster for 9 weeks), you can’t go just go home because you need help to get around. You need permission from EK to leave Dubai. EK control your life.
Sorry I don't understand when I have anual leave and there is no permission required to go home, why can't I do.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

It will never work …and also remember if you get sick, and I mean long term sick ( let’s say you break your leg and you are to be in plaster for 9 weeks), you can’t go just go home because you need help to get around. You need permission from EK to leave Dubai. EK control your life.

And unfortunately enough, if u have to go to the ER it easily can happen that the persons on the front desk tells u, that need a referral from an ek clinic doctor first, otherwise you have to bring your credit card with you going into ER. - and before saying something it exactly happened that way to myself.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Not commute but go home every two months for a week or 10 days. Stress for going home why?

this worked only until around 2014. until when AAR put a rule out saying no off days attached to leave. Since than it’s worked every now and than, maybe twice or three time between 2014 and 2020.
the years 17/18/19 turned out that usually only two bigger junks of 2-3 weeks long where granted not exact where you wanted them. It could have been granted plus minus a month from where your bid was (even with of season bids). Many only got one VAC granted within 18 month of a max size of 21 days.
A lot of pilots had large amounts of leave days in the bank, because it had never been granted when they where biding for it.
for a fact it’s easier to go home via a layover (Europe 24 hr) every 2 month than getting the leave bid)
sometimes it worked via live leave, where you get the permission just the evening before it start. Still your return is depending inside roaster rules to be acclimatized before the next duty, for LR and ULR min of 12 hours before. This return is monitored by when you pass the e-gate and via the tickets you use. It won’t be brought up immediately, but if something’s is coming to their attention on the subsequent flight it’s one of the first things you will hear as a point of pressure on you -„ you have not been acclimatized“ yet alone this is than a reason for your warning letter. „you are not complying with the procedures“ will be the charge. Worst case punishment on top is, taking away the privilege of ID-Tickets for a period of time and of course the letter.
having one of those letters means, falling a sim can show the exit
if you wish to do that be very careful how it can end.
with EK your life is in Dubai and only leave, if lucky, every half year will give u a trip home- that’s it the rest u are in Dxb.
In- and out every 2/3 month for 10 days does not work anymore since about 2014, thanks to AAR

[SOPS]

Sorry I don't understand when I have anual leave and there is no permission required to go home, why can't I do.

If you are sick.. you need permission from EK to leave Dubai. I don’t know how else to say it.

[McToryMug]

Emirates have a dedicated SISARINPAM team.

This is the Sickness,Ill health, Surveillance And Review Independent Non Prejudice Autonomous Monitoring team who work tirelessly to protect workers rights. Although sickness is sometimes and occasionally looked at, this certainly would never be a deciding factor in sacking you or making you redundant as some have alluded to on this forum.

Emirates offer state of the art accommodation in a cosmopolitan city with tax free benefits. Meydan south is a green and welcoming community where pilots live in harmony and really are one big team. You can expect to fly 80 hours per month and all holiday will be granted upon request, and you can expect some great retail discounts across the city, such as costa coffee discount of 25 percent (certain terms and conditions apply)

Although Meydan South is a small ride out of town, the roads are amongst the best in the world. The traffic is light, and drivers are very courteous which makes driving an absolute pleasure.

Children get a well rounded education which sets them up for the real world. They are fortunate to share classes with children who's parents work in a whole host of careers such as Captain and First Officer as well as Synthetic flight instructor.

Opportunities to return home do exist. Allowance is made for pilots to return home on their own days off but the company does ask that an off base notification is completed so Emirates can identify your position on your off days. This is to make sure you stay safe on your down time.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Sorry I don't understand when I have anual leave and there is no permission required to go home, why can't I do.
why? Simple
if you call sick prior to your leave your LVE duty converts into SCK - LVE is a duty where your presence is not required while SCK is a duty with presence at base means DXB therefore you need permission to leave base. Also EK only covers medical expenses being on duty while of base. If you break your leg in your of time it’s only covered in Dubai not abroad.

you also require a EK doctor to sign in for SCK(only EK doctors are accepted) means you go to the ER, thereafter you either send the documents from the hospital to a EK doctor or if able show up in person and only thereafter your SCK is confirmed by EK. To maintain in SCK you frequently need to have appointments with EK doctors to provide information of you status, even these doctors are not in charge of you getting healthy again. Failing to do so can end instead of SCK falling into leave of absence which is an item to disciplinary action by management - meaning a warning letter or worse.
summary if you are in a coma or unable to leave a hospital - that’s easy. A Brocken leg on crunches makes you go to EK doctor once a week at least - meaning you not leaving Dxb because you would fail to see the EK doctor leading to above problem

LVE and OFF are the only codes where you can move without permission still you need the off base form filled

maybe someone with access to omA can copy the definition of these duty codes for him to understand

[svp]

yet it's not worse than working in EU carriers. good luck surviving for food there

[White Sausage]

yet it's not worse than working in EU carriers. good luck surviving for food there
svp, you’re a moron, plain and simple. You don’t know what you’re talking about. I left EK in the first wave and have a better life in Europe with more money and a much better lifestyle. Of course I’m not flying for a crap outfit like you probably. I’ve seen both sides and unlike you I do know what I’m talking about.

[Mach_Krit]

You do not need permission to leave dubai when you have leave. off base notification theoretically only required for traveling when on OFF days. Basically it’s an expression of interest to operate wherever you are in the world in case they have any crewing issues down route. Haven’t filled one out in years and not heard a thing about it.

[nimrodjoe]

Emirates is excellent .

The salary is very high and always goes up every year.

The weather is always sunny and the women are super hot.

Dubai is a super easy place to live and the training department are probably the best in the industry.

The drive to work is a dream and the drivers are very smooth at braking. The locals are extremely friendly and expats integrate very well with them often learning Arabic.

Australians are a pleasure to fly amongst they are extremely humble.

EK make life really easy , there is no bureaucracy and you seldom have to go to eghq on off days and drive around in circles 20 floors to get a space .

Cabin crew are super dooper and the management are very approachable!

It’s just an excellent place to be.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Emirates is excellent .

The salary is very high and always goes up every year.

The weather is always sunny and the women are super hot.

Dubai is a super easy place to live and the training department are probably the best in the industry.

The drive to work is a dream and the drivers are very smooth at braking. The locals are extremely friendly and expats integrate very well with them often learning Arabic.

Australians are a pleasure to fly amongst they are extremely humble.

EK make life really easy , there is no bureaucracy and you seldom have to go to eghq on off days and drive around in circles 20 floors to get a space .

Cabin crew are super dooper and the management are very approachable!

It’s just an excellent place to be.

i which universe do I have to sign up?

[flyTheBigFatLady]

yet it's not worse than working in EU carriers. good luck surviving for food there

you don’t know what your talking!

i Europe any doctor can give u sick note and a company has to accept it. It’s even against the law to challenge 3 days of self certification as in most countries a doctors note is only required for being sick for more than 3 days
it is also mandatory by law to have an insurance.
EK is not an and does not have an insurance - they are paying your bill- therefore they take the right that your sick days are certified by an EK doctor, as well as they take the right to diceide what’s in your best interest, which medical treatment is the best for you, as all of them have to be certified by medical benefits- otherwise you pay yourself
in Europe a mandatory insurance does cover almost everything what is required to make you healthy, including cancer therapy. Because it is by law required insurance.

so there is a big time difference in eu or me

[777JockeyIN]

Emirates is excellent .

The salary is very high and always goes up every year.

The weather is always sunny and the women are super hot.

Dubai is a super easy place to live and the training department are probably the best in the industry.

The drive to work is a dream and the drivers are very smooth at braking. The locals are extremely friendly and expats integrate very well with them often learning Arabic.

Australians are a pleasure to fly amongst they are extremely humble.

EK make life really easy , there is no bureaucracy and you seldom have to go to eghq on off days and drive around in circles 20 floors to get a space .

Cabin crew are super dooper and the management are very approachable!

It’s just an excellent place to be.

Just the stuff which people want to hear :O

[maskara]

svp, you’re a moron, plain and simple. You don’t know what you’re talking about. I left EK in the first wave and have a better life in Europe with more money and a much better lifestyle. Of course I’m not flying for a crap outfit like you probably. I’ve seen both sides and unlike you I do know what I’m talking about.

Could you please tell us In which lovely company do you work for so I can apply also? lol

[maskara]

you don’t know what your talking!

i Europe any doctor can give u sick note and a company has to accept it. It’s even against the law to challenge 3 days of self certification as in most countries a doctors note is only required for being sick for more than 3 days
it is also mandatory by law to have an insurance.
EK is not an and does not have an insurance - they are paying your bill- therefore they take the right that your sick days are certified by an EK doctor, as well as they take the right to diceide what’s in your best interest, which medical treatment is the best for you, as all of them have to be certified by medical benefits- otherwise you pay yourself
in Europe a mandatory insurance does cover almost everything what is required to make you healthy, including cancer therapy. Because it is by law required insurance.

so there is a big time difference in eu or me
sorry, have you ever heard about self employed pilots in EU? Did you know many of them do not even register for social insurance in order to have some money to survive with such a low salary?

[flyTheBigFatLady]

sorry, have you ever heard about self employed pilots in EU? Did you know many of them do not even register for social insurance in order to have some money to survive with such a low salary?

i know that, but it’s illegal if cought by the tax administrion and administration for social security it comes with seriously hefty fines - do that for ten years and you find yourself in court for tax fraud.

[zambonidriver]

@nimrodjoe

Don't know how good a pilot you are but you definitely have an act for satire 😜

[PPRuNeUser0216]

Emirates is excellent .

The salary is very high and always goes up every year.

The weather is always sunny and the women are super hot.

Dubai is a super easy place to live and the training department are probably the best in the industry.

The drive to work is a dream and the drivers are very smooth at braking. The locals are extremely friendly and expats integrate very well with them often learning Arabic.

Australians are a pleasure to fly amongst they are extremely humble.

EK make life really easy , there is no bureaucracy and you seldom have to go to eghq on off days and drive around in circles 20 floors to get a space .

Cabin crew are super dooper and the management are very approachable!

It’s just an excellent place to be.

That must be a joke. Australians are generally harmless, the majority are the best pilots in the industry, just a reasonable percentage of them that are just very very different to most other aviators, never known what is particularly but it's just the way they operate and conduct themselves that can present some challenges in CRM. The vast majority are probably the best in the world though from my experience. All have a little bee in their Bonet still though.

Rest is fairly accurate.

[MENELAUS]

That must be a joke. Australians are generally harmless, the majority are the best pilots in the industry, just a reasonable percentage of them that are just very very different to most other aviators, never known what is particularly but it's just the way they operate and conduct themselves that can present some challenges in CRM. The vast majority are probably the best in the world though from my experience. All have a little bee in their Bonet still though.

Rest is fairly accurate.

Thanks for lifting the mood. “Probably the best in the world”. Probably cornered the market in anal retention.
I haven’t laughed so much since Auntie Mabel
caught her left tit in the mangle.

[Jack D]

Thanks for lifting the mood. “Probably the best in the world”. Probably cornered the market in anal retention.
I haven’t laughed so much since Auntie Mabel
caught her left tit in the mangle.

Thats funny, shades of Derek and Clive !
probably “the best in the world” also amuses.

I really couldn’t say but I probably know who are not the best in the world or any world for that matter …

[Skyfl410]

Yes, go to the ME, they are waiting for people like you. Don’t listen to the people who live or used to live there, what do they know. You know much better 🤦‍♂️
Meanwhile I’m enjoying my 4-6 off days in a row after every trip while being protected by laws and civilization…


I worked for nine years in the middle east. I'm Currently back in the EU, working for a ''civilized'' airline...Based on my experience, I'm very disappointed in the T&C airlines offered in this '' Civilized'' world. I fly more than I used to in the ME with less than half the salary on a 5/3 roster, four sectors per day without food and only one 1litter of water offered by the airline. Without mentioning all the extra operations on the ground ecc ecc ecc ..
No worries...we are ''protected''... Let's tell our excellent, civilized manager/Unions to increase the salary and provide us with a snack on 10/13 hour duty and a 5/4 roster (which is still a killer) ....but the answer from our great managers was '' Like it or leave it''... this Sounds a bit like ME correct? So who's the slave now?

Let's report fatigue after a 13hours duty ...ahh, no, better not because the managers will want to ask why...
So better call in sick when you feel fatigued? Ahh, no, they don't pay when you are sick. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif
All these things are worst than the middle east and just a small part of this'' Protected and civilized'' world you like so much.

I passed a few interviews with other ''civilized'' airlines, but the story is always the same T&C suck. If you are not part of a major in the EU, you better do some flight hours and leave. Go to the middle EAST or Asia, where a pilot earns a good salary and still has a few practical benefits. It hurts to say, but it's the truth. Come back with full pockets and enjoy Europe as a tourist. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif

I'm glad to know you have 4/6 days off after a trip, and please tell us what reality you live in.

[cosmiccomet]

I worked for nine years in the middle east. I'm Currently back in the EU, working for a ''civilized'' airline...Based on my experience, I'm very disappointed in the T&C airlines offered in this '' Civilized'' world. I fly more than I used to in the ME with less than half the salary on a 5/3 roster, four sectors per day without food and only one 1litter of water offered by the airline. Without mentioning all the extra operations on the ground ecc ecc ecc ..
No worries...we are ''protected''... Let's tell our excellent, civilized manager/Unions to increase the salary and provide us with a snack on 10/13 hour duty and a 5/4 roster (which is still a killer) ....but the answer from our great managers was '' Like it or leave it''... this Sounds a bit like ME correct? So who's the slave now?

Let's report fatigue after a 13hours duty ...ahh, no, better not because the managers will want to ask why...
So better call in sick when you feel fatigued? Ahh, no, they don't pay when you are sick. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif
All these things are worst than the middle east and just a small part of this'' Protected and civilized'' world you like so much.

I passed a few interviews with other ''civilized'' airlines, but the story is always the same T&C suck. If you are not part of a major in the EU, you better do some flight hours and leave. Go to the middle EAST or Asia, where a pilot earns a good salary and still has a few practical benefits. It hurts to say, but it's the truth. Come back with full pockets and enjoy Europe as a tourist. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif

I'm glad to know you have 4/6 days off after a trip, and please tell us what reality you live in.
I can not agree more about the working conditions in Europe for most of the LCC.
My only concern about moving as an FO to ME or SE would be the time to upgrade back to Captain. It is not the same for a 30s years old Captain as a 40s or 50s one.

[White Sausage]

I worked for nine years in the middle east. I'm Currently back in the EU, working for a ''civilized'' airline...Based on my experience, I'm very disappointed in the T&C airlines offered in this '' Civilized'' world. I fly more than I used to in the ME with less than half the salary on a 5/3 roster, four sectors per day without food and only one 1litter of water offered by the airline. Without mentioning all the extra operations on the ground ecc ecc ecc ..
No worries...we are ''protected''... Let's tell our excellent, civilized manager/Unions to increase the salary and provide us with a snack on 10/13 hour duty and a 5/4 roster (which is still a killer) ....but the answer from our great managers was '' Like it or leave it''... this Sounds a bit like ME correct? So who's the slave now?

Let's report fatigue after a 13hours duty ...ahh, no, better not because the managers will want to ask why...
So better call in sick when you feel fatigued? Ahh, no, they don't pay when you are sick. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif
All these things are worst than the middle east and just a small part of this'' Protected and civilized'' world you like so much.

I passed a few interviews with other ''civilized'' airlines, but the story is always the same T&C suck. If you are not part of a major in the EU, you better do some flight hours and leave. Go to the middle EAST or Asia, where a pilot earns a good salary and still has a few practical benefits. It hurts to say, but it's the truth. Come back with full pockets and enjoy Europe as a tourist. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif

I'm glad to know you have 4/6 days off after a trip, and please tell us what reality you live in.

Well, I’m sorry you landed a crap job in a crap airline. I didn’t, I was lucky after more than 17 years in the ME. So my reality is great, I’m enjoying my new job, I have a great management and an awesome company culture. I fly less for the same money as in the ME, if I work more I’m making more than before. Again, sorry if that don’t fit your narrative.

I agree, LCC in Europe sucks, but nobody is forced to work there with a gun to their head. If you accept these ****ty t&c‘s then don’t complain afterwards but look for something better.

There are great jobs out there, you just have to find them…

[nimrodjoe]

Well, I’m sorry you landed a crap job in a crap airline. I didn’t, I was lucky after more than 17 years in the ME. So my reality is great, I’m enjoying my new job, I have a great management and an awesome company culture. I fly less for the same money as in the ME, if I work more I’m making more than before. Again, sorry if that don’t fit your narrative.

I agree, LCC in Europe sucks, but nobody is forced to work there with a gun to their head. If you accept these ****ty t&c‘s then don’t complain afterwards but look for something better.

There are great jobs out there, you just have to find them…

Could not agree any more.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Well, I’m sorry you landed a crap job in a crap airline. I didn’t, I was lucky after more than 17 years in the ME. So my reality is great, I’m enjoying my new job, I have a great management and an awesome company culture. I fly less for the same money as in the ME, if I work more I’m making more than before. Again, sorry if that don’t fit your narrative.

I agree, LCC in Europe sucks, but nobody is forced to work there with a gun to their head. If you accept these ****ty t&c‘s then don’t complain afterwards but look for something better.

There are great jobs out there, you just have to find them…

if nobody signs those TnC they must go better, but pilots are their worst enemies, always have been.
there is always a few who feel happy to sign in, later complain and/or leave the outfit.

and I nobody would sign in on such TnC, and pilots are loosing their regencies airlines would be required to cover those costs later on too. So there is a way to change the system, but it’s needs to be all together rather than complaining. I have my part not to sign up for everything- it was hard but it payed off now. I work less - I decide how much money I want to earn and control the income by controlling my flight hours. Yes it’s not ideal but better than what all the LCC offer - by far
Training became a pleasure, not like with the best of the best, where you look which trainer comes across and you consider to call sick on a particular person in the back.
in EK only the minority was going into a check relaxed without any paranoia. And for some of them it ended badly not to be.
so what is world class in the dessert.
With AAR has the wrong count of sugar in his tea your career can change upside down in an blinck of an eye - because rules change instantly (ask all 330/340 guys) how things ended up with that fleet. Progress is depending on so many things in this company where you have absolute no influence - unlike than in many other carriers in a civilized world where seniority and flight hours have the saying over your career - not LCC of course.

[nickler]

Well, I’m sorry you landed a crap job in a crap airline. I didn’t, I was lucky after more than 17 years in the ME. So my reality is great, I’m enjoying my new job, I have a great management and an awesome company culture. I fly less for the same money as in the ME, if I work more I’m making more than before. Again, sorry if that don’t fit your narrative.

I agree, LCC in Europe sucks, but nobody is forced to work there with a gun to their head. If you accept these ****ty t&c‘s then don’t complain afterwards but look for something better.

There are great jobs out there, you just have to find them…

Great jobs in Europe? Seriously?

90% of the jobs are LCC, other than that you can count on one hand or less the opportunities to get a DEC entry into a Legacy/Major. I am really curious to know How you can make a NET salary comparable to EK in Europe by working less. I spent 20 years in the ME most of those at EK and I relocated in the Old Continent getting into a LCC where I work as much as before for less than half the salary including different training allowances. You must have hit the jackpot.

[White Sausage]

Great jobs in Europe? Seriously?

90% of the jobs are LCC, other than that you can count on one hand or less the opportunities to get a DEC entry into a Legacy/Major. I am really curious to know How you can make a NET salary comparable to EK in Europe by working less. I spent 20 years in the ME most of those at EK and I relocated in the Old Continent getting into a LCC where I work as much as before for less than half the salary including different training allowances. You must have hit the jackpot.

Yes I hit the jackpot, absolutely. I didn’t expect that but it happened. And yes, it’s not a LCC or other bottom feeder but a pretty big widebody airline that treats me and quite a few former EK colleagues (all of us DEC) very very well. Nobody of us would ever go back.
I understand that we were very fortunate. Nevertheless it’s not a mine is bigger than yours competition here (I think we left that behind in the ME) but just an honest opinion that one should be very careful to leave laws and rules behind and join EK. I had a good time there but these good times are way over since 2008 and it’s getting worse and worse there.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Great jobs in Europe? Seriously?

90% of the jobs are LCC, other than that you can count on one hand or less the opportunities to get a DEC entry into a Legacy/Major. I am really curious to know How you can make a NET salary comparable to EK in Europe by working less. I spent 20 years in the ME most of those at EK and I relocated in the Old Continent getting into a LCC where I work as much as before for less than half the salary including different training allowances. You must have hit the jackpot.

of course you cannot make the net sal of EK in Europe it’s an illusion.
nevertheless what is the quality of life you want. For EK and it’s salary you have to give up everything, mostly your friends, family and yes also parts of your freedom. If you are happy to live in the golden cage yes of course it great, but don’t forget after 10 years you start at zero at home and the big question is, is it worth it or is better to have a less paying job not giving up everything. I still believe the burden wich comes with EK, EK is by far not paying enough.
yet alone thinking about how suddenly against all promises the life in Dubai can end without any of your personal wrong doing, you left with absolute nothing.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

That must be a joke. Australians are generally harmless, the majority are the best pilots in the industry, just a reasonable percentage of them that are just very very different to most other aviators, never known what is particularly but it's just the way they operate and conduct themselves that can present some challenges in CRM. The vast majority are probably the best in the world though from my experience. All have a little bee in their Bonet still though.

Rest is fairly accurate.

idiocy doesn’t have a nationality in this company.
never met an Ausi who had been difficult to work or go to the sim with. Most lads with personal problems in training are coming from a far more western place e.g. Europe impairing a big complex of being the best.
ausis i met may a Little strickt on Little things but that hasn’t been bad at all.

[My Rifle and I]

Well, I’m sorry you landed a crap job in a crap airline. I didn’t, I was lucky after more than 17 years in the ME. So my reality is great, I’m enjoying my new job, I have a great management and an awesome company culture. I fly less for the same money as in the ME, if I work more I’m making more than before. Again, sorry if that don’t fit your narrative.

Yes I hit the jackpot, absolutely. I didn’t expect that but it happened. And yes, it’s not a LCC or other bottom feeder but a pretty big widebody airline that treats me and quite a few former EK colleagues (all of us DEC) very very well. Nobody of us would ever go back.

For a minute I though you were posting about the 600's @ EGHH, then I saw the bit about the same money as EK so I knew it couldn't be. But money is not everything, I do understand that.

[nimrodjoe]

There is many alright aussies out there to be honest.

[PPRuNeUser0216]

Isn't there loads of people willing to give up the RHS to go LHS in EK or QR... is that what they are offering to get people to come now? Upgrade on arrival. Nothing would surprise me. Having said that, EK has had lots of great applicants, usually they invite half the subcontinent to the interview along with a few westerners and all the westerners get in.

[maskara]

Isn't there loads of people willing to give up the RHS to go LHS in EK or QR... is that what they are offering to get people to come now? Upgrade on arrival. Nothing would surprise me. Having said that, EK has had lots of great applicants, usually they invite half the subcontinent to the interview along with a few westerners and all the westerners get in.
yea it was a typo. like i wrote on the message, I did the upgrade recently.. i cannot change the title. ive been trying to, after i submited the post but no luck

[vennnz]

The only reason many pilots aren't joining right now is because a lot of them would like to keep commuting home with rosters like 3-1 or like US 17days on 13 off.. it's not for everybody to live in Dubai 365, not because it's bad but because part of your family stays in your home country.

This type of contract would cost 0 extra money out of their pocket but increase pilots joining.. many pilots I've spoken with flying for other airlines making less than in emirates rather stay there because they can commute home, not all is money, for many ike myself, familiy comes first.

I wish the best for all my colleagues out there flying in the ME.

[nimrodjoe]

The only reason many pilots aren't joining right now is because a lot of them would like to keep commuting home with rosters like 3-1 or like US 17days on 13 off.. it's not for everybody to live in Dubai 365, not because it's bad but because part of your family stays in your home country.

This type of contract would cost 0 extra money out of their pocket but increase pilots joining.. many pilots I've spoken with flying for other airlines making less than in emirates rather stay there because they can commute home, not all is money, for many ike myself, familiy comes first.

I wish the best for all my colleagues out there flying in the ME.

Thank you kindly for a somewhat primitive account of the situation.

[vennnz]

Thank you kindly for a somewhat primitive account of the situation.
it can be as complex or as simple as you wish depending on your point of view. I've seen the good and the bad and everyone has a different perception of the issues or benefits of the ME. i am referring to new joiners, like many of colleagues flying in Asia or even Africa for less bucks because the can commute home.

ME needs foreign pilots bur not all pilots want to be away from home for their remaining years of career.

Again, good luck with management and I hope all the worries and nonconformity with current situation improves i. The short term for all flying there.

[SaulGoodman]

I worked for nine years in the middle east. I'm Currently back in the EU, working for a ''civilized'' airline...Based on my experience, I'm very disappointed in the T&C airlines offered in this '' Civilized'' world. I fly more than I used to in the ME with less than half the salary on a 5/3 roster, four sectors per day without food and only one 1litter of water offered by the airline. Without mentioning all the extra operations on the ground ecc ecc ecc ..
No worries...we are ''protected''... Let's tell our excellent, civilized manager/Unions to increase the salary and provide us with a snack on 10/13 hour duty and a 5/4 roster (which is still a killer) ....but the answer from our great managers was '' Like it or leave it''... this Sounds a bit like ME correct? So who's the slave now?

Let's report fatigue after a 13hours duty ...ahh, no, better not because the managers will want to ask why...
So better call in sick when you feel fatigued? Ahh, no, they don't pay when you are sick. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif
All these things are worst than the middle east and just a small part of this'' Protected and civilized'' world you like so much.

I passed a few interviews with other ''civilized'' airlines, but the story is always the same T&C suck. If you are not part of a major in the EU, you better do some flight hours and leave. Go to the middle EAST or Asia, where a pilot earns a good salary and still has a few practical benefits. It hurts to say, but it's the truth. Come back with full pockets and enjoy Europe as a tourist. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/wink2.gif

I'm glad to know you have 4/6 days off after a trip, and please tell us what reality you live in.

You went for DEC in some ****ty airline I assume?
why don’t you apply for RHS at a decent one?

[nimrodjoe]

This is a breakthrough moment for sure. Commuter contracts, nobody has ever thought about this before.

cats out the bag now though, this is really going to take hold.

GAME CHANGER.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

This is a breakthrough moment for sure. Commuter contracts, nobody has ever thought about this before.

cats out the bag now though, this is really going to take hold.

GAME CHANGER.

But remember when they introduced commuting contract for freighter 26/13 and how it turned out. At the end they flew 100% productivity on 80% no housing and school allowance (school allowance only if the kids go to school in Dubai) hotel in Dxb and flights on your own (class a and c)
medical only on duty and in Dubai

many wanted it only a few took it due to the side conditions

[Skyfl410]

You went for DEC in some ****ty airline I assume?
why don’t you apply for RHS at a decent one?

Correct! 2022 already changed 2 airlines... All the same '' amazing shiity T&C''. for the moment, I prefer not to leave the Left seat. Ill just wait for the ME or Asia to open up. Not happy in EU.

[SaulGoodman]

Correct! 2022 already changed 2 airlines... All the same '' amazing shiity T&C''. for the moment, I prefer not to leave the Left seat. Ill just wait for the ME or Asia to open up. Not happy in EU.

Pretty much all EU operators that hire DEC are crappy outfits, with a few exceptions obviously. The ME3 isn’t any better though. You will earn a lot more, but you are going to need it as the cost of living is immense. If you are not too old I suggest looking into FO positions in good EU airlines. I’ve done just that and appreciate a much better QoL.

[Skyfl410]

Pretty much all EU operators that hire DEC are crappy outfits, with a few exceptions obviously. The ME3 isn’t any better though. You will earn a lot more, but you are going to need it as the cost of living is immense. If you are not too old I suggest looking into FO positions in good EU airlines. I’ve done just that and appreciate a much better QoL.

Once Housing and schools are paid by the airline, its money coming in. After it depends on you what life style you choose;)