Network Aviation Mass Exodus

[ActiveLooker]

Heard the new tactic is to threatening termination and stand downs for negotiating day off payments. Seems the behaviours don’t change only the people. Contract work still the better choice. Guys looking for other options now. Engineers, Cabin Crew and Pilots about to leave in droves.

[walesregent]

Heard they have a new guy from the competitor and already threatening termination and stand downs for negotiating day off payments. Seems the behaviours don’t change only the people. Contract work still the better choice.


I’m old enough to remember what happened to the last senior manager who threw their weight around enough to attract the attention of HR. Gardening leave anyone?

[Icarus2001]

Heard the new tactic is to threatening termination and stand downs for negotiating day off payments. Very simple solution.

When on a day off do not answer your phone for work calls.

Simples.

[onezeroonethree]

Can they afford to follow through with such threats considering they’re heavily under crewed?

[ActiveLooker]

Can they afford to follow through with such threats considering they’re heavily under crewed?
I’m guessing it’s just another boof head comment to try and intimidate the lads. Certainly drives potential new joiners away when they should be doing the opposite. It was looking like a way back to Oz but not anymore. Some of my ex colleagues who went there are now looking O/S again.

[blubak]

Very simple solution.

When on a day off do not answer your phone for work calls.

Simples.
And even if you do get caught off guard & answer it the simple answer is just had some beers & cant drive never mind fly an aircraft,they dont own you.

[walesregent]

I’m guessing it’s just another boof head comment to try and intimidate the lads. Certainly drives potential new joiners away when they should be doing the opposite. It was looking like a way back to Oz but not anymore. Some of my ex colleagues who went there are now looking O/S again.

The ‘salary’ is not going to afford much of a standard of living by comparison to what they can get elsewhere, and I’d imagine it is a much less daunting proposition for someone used to being an expat to move OS again. I’m surprised many have stuck around for this long.

[ifylofd]

In a world of supply and demand, it would only be an ignorant manager who didn’t understand this concept. And only an ignorant manager would be issuing threats. (Everything, and everyone has a price IMHO)
Perhaps the said manager should be focussed on the underlying issue of perhaps why pilots may seek more remuneration for a DDO shift?

Have heard the EBA is atrocious, and was never properly addressed when the Airbus was added. Maybe a start point?
World / Australia moving to shortages, so pilot groups there should have an advantage. So long as you have individuals saying yes to poor call-out fees, there will always be that problem. The wills and the won’ts.
If everyone was a ‘won’t’ then perhaps some clever leverage could be exercised.

[aussieflyboy]

Equal Pay for equal work. What does a Jetstar or VARA 320 pilot get for working on a day off?

Anything less is not worth the effort.

[aseriesofleftturns]

Equal Pay for equal work. What does a Jetstar or VARA 320 pilot get for working on a day off?

Anything less is not worth the effort.

Does that mean Network guys/girls will be remunerated the same as the Mainline guys/girls in their 321's? Same uniform, same job, same pay? Right?

[PoppaJo]

Is old mate still the CP?

[1234fly]

Old chief has "gone to spend more time with family and friends" just like the last HOTC who got the axe

[aussieflyboy]

Does that mean Network guys/girls will be remunerated the same as the Mainline guys/girls in their 321's? Same uniform, same job, same pay? Right?

Not a realistic comparison is it champ. If the mainline guys start flying 320s (not 321s) between Perth and Newman then why not!?

[aseriesofleftturns]

Not a realistic comparison is it champ. If the mainline guys start flying 320s (not 321s) between Perth and Newman then why not!?

And when Network are flying 320's to Bali, Singapore, Brisbane, Adelaide, Darwin (already do), Cairns etc, champ?

[onezeroonethree]

In a world of supply and demand, it would only be an ignorant manager who didn’t understand this concept. And only an ignorant manager would be issuing threats. (Everything, and everyone has a price IMHO)
Perhaps the said manager should be focussed on the underlying issue of perhaps why pilots may seek more remuneration for a DDO shift?

I've heard stories of NAA pilots resigning and then getting an email from some manager up the chain asking if they can have a chat as to the reasons why they're moving on...

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/592x463/lol_b7c1c66e7e4396da107b1e2ab36e8e3838baac15.jpg

[RealSatoshi]

Not a realistic comparison is it champ. If the mainline guys start flying 320s (not 321s) between Perth and Newman then why not!?
So now the destination, not the aircraft type defines you? You mean the QF 787 guys/girls then also deserve less on a PER MEL sector....are you for real?

[aussieflyboy]

So now the destination, not the aircraft type defines you? You mean the QF 787 guys/girls then also deserve less on a PER MEL sector....are you for real?

Im not suggest anyone should earn less chump. I’m stating that Network pilots should be earning more. Are you struggling with that concept?

[ActiveLooker]

Im not suggest anyone should earn less chump. I’m stating that Network pilots should be earning more. Are you struggling with that concept?
Aussie, you probably need to reword your initial post. It certainly seems you believe Newman flying is worth less than trunk routes.

[WhiteNight]

Heard the new tactic is to threatening termination and stand downs for negotiating day off payments. Seems the behaviours don’t change only the people. Contract work still the better choice. Guys looking for other options now. Engineers, Cabin Crew and Pilots about to leave in droves.

New ... ?

[Slippery_Pete]

Wake up, Network management!

It seems your bin chickens are growing wings.

[aseriesofleftturns]

And when Network are flying 320's to Bali, Singapore, Brisbane, Adelaide, Darwin (already do), Cairns etc, champ?

Or the QF 737's that are sharing routes with NWK 320's to Broome, Hedland, Karatha, Kalgoorlie, Chrissy Creek, Newman, Ginbata etc?

Any chance of a reply, chief? aussieflyboy

[aussieflyboy]

Or the QF 737's that are sharing routes with NWK 320's to Broome, Hedland, Karatha, Kalgoorlie, Chrissy Creek, Newman, Ginbata etc?

Any chance of a reply, chief? aussieflyboy

Im not sure what your after here boss? Do you not think Network 320 Pilots should earn the same as a Mainline 737 pilot?

I think it’s quite reasonable that they should be earning the same salary. I also think a QF A321 pilot should earn slightly more then a Network 320 pilot as it is a larger aircraft. Obviously this means Network Pilots need to understand their actual worth and make an effort to improve the current EA.

[ActiveLooker]

Im not sure what your after here boss? Do you not think Network 320 Pilots should earn the same as a Mainline 737 pilot?

I think it’s quite reasonable that they should be earning the same salary. I also think a QF A321 pilot should earn slightly more then a Network 320 pilot as it is a larger aircraft. Obviously this means Network Pilots need to understand their actual worth and make an effort to improve the current EA.
I think the name change that “holdboy” suggested it quite fitting. Why is it that you QF flogs think pay is all about weight. Major carriers around the globe get fleet pay. Same job, same pay I believe. Do you get a boner when you drive your landcruiser past a mini? Doesn’t matter which Airbus you drive. 319/320/321/330/340 same. Just because an operator chooses the route doesn’t mean the pilots should be paid differently.

[aussieflyboy]

I think the name change that “holdboy” suggested it quite fitting. Why is it that you QF flogs think pay is all about weight. Major carriers around the globe get fleet pay. Same job, same pay I believe. Do you get a boner when you drive your landcruiser past a mini? Doesn’t matter which Airbus you drive. 319/320/321/330/340 same. Just because an operator chooses the route doesn’t mean the pilots should be paid differently.

So you think it’s a reasonable request for an NAA Captain to be demanding the same pay as a QF A330/350 pilot? I’d encourage that as it’s an overall improvement to Aus pilot wages however I think that would be an uphill battle

[dr dre]

Pay isn’t about size, weight, passenger capacity, routes, complexity of the aircraft etc.

It comes down to legality and free market economics.

Does the contract comply with the applicable legislation? And then to supply and demand, will there be enough qualified and willing workers to perform the job under these conditions?

If there aren’t then you have grounds to improve conditions. If there is an oversupply then reductions and cuts will be sought.

Do you think mining companies want to pay six figure salaries for FIFO cleaners? It’s because they need to, not out of the goodness of their hearts.

[aussieflyboy]

Pay isn’t about size, weight, passenger capacity, routes, complexity of the aircraft etc.

It comes down to legality and free market economics.

Does the contract comply with the applicable legislation? And then to supply and demand, will there be enough qualified and willing workers to perform the job under these conditions?

If there aren’t then you have grounds to improve conditions. If there is an oversupply then reductions and cuts will be sought.

Do you think mining companies want to pay six figure salaries for FIFO cleaners? It’s because they need to, not out of the goodness of their hearts.

NAA Pilots must have the best airline job in Australia. With such a low pay they must have a long list of pilots on the hold file. Supply and demand after all…

[RealSatoshi]

Pay isn’t about size, weight, passenger capacity, routes, complexity of the aircraft etc. It comes down to legality and free market economics. If there is an oversupply then reductions and cuts will be sought.
Based on this analogy QF pilots would be up for a rude awakening...1700 SO applications at last count, this while the rest of the group cannot fill their seats. So can we expect QF pay reductions versus pay increases for the rest?

Not so sure about that...

[neville_nobody]

Except there isn’t a true “free market” and QF distort the system with cadets. Experience and qualifications have nothing to do with it when someone with no actual flying experience gets a 6 figure job ahead of people who do.

The other contentious issue in aviation is the ability to generate revenue. This is what really killed the regionals in the US. The pay was so low they couldn’t get anyone but the same time there wasn’t a lot of margin to pay more because the planes really don’t generate enough revenue. Then you get to the point where routes might as well go back to the mainline because they have the ability to fly the route putting yourself out of business.

This is the point where this whole outsourcing model implodes as there is a line out the door for mainline yet the regionals can’t pay enough to crew their flights.

[ActiveLooker]

So you think it’s a reasonable request for an NAA Captain to be demanding the same pay as a QF A330/350 pilot? I’d encourage that as it’s an overall improvement to Aus pilot wages however I think that would be an uphill battle
I do, you obviously don’t. This is where Australian pilots are so misguided. There is much more in aviation than Qantas Flog. Perhaps you need to spread your wings and explore it some time.

[aussieflyboy]

I do, you obviously don’t. This is where Australian pilots are so misguided. There is much more in aviation than Qantas Flog. Perhaps you need to spread your wings and explore it some time.

The petty name calling shows you’re some sort of Caravan King that keeps getting rejected from the Aus Airlines. Relax mate.

If NAA pilots threatened PIA and demanded an A330 wage it would get rejected by Fairwork. If however they compared themselves to a 737 pilot as it’s a similar sized aircraft on similar routes then they would stand a chance. Surely you see that.

[ActiveLooker]

The petty name calling shows you’re some sort of Caravan King that keeps getting rejected from the Aus Airlines. Relax mate.

If NAA pilots threatened PIA and demanded an A330 wage it would get rejected by Fairwork. If however they compared themselves to a 737 pilot as it’s a similar sized aircraft on similar routes then they would stand a chance. Surely you see that.
it’s not about me mate, this is about my friends putting up with Australian operators and pilots like you that think you deserve more. You are certainly wrong about me. Had an extensive Career in Oz before moving overseas. Pilot use to stand together and then they didn’t. I hope you weren’t one of them

[RealSatoshi]

The petty name calling shows you’re some sort...
...and then you continue to insult...
...chump...
Remember when you called someone a "Chump" - a foolish or easily deceived person (from the dictionary that is)

Coat, Hat, Door :ok:

[Transition Layer]

Except there isn’t a true “free market” and QF distort the system with cadets. Experience and qualifications have nothing to do with it when someone with no actual flying experience gets a 6 figure job ahead of people who do.

QF cadets with 250hrs have not flowed directly into Mainline for almost 20 years, so I’m not sure how relevant it is to today’s Ts and Cs.
.
90% of the SOs I fly with these days have extensive jet or turboprop experience, which IMHO justifies the pay of an SO being above a NAA FO. In fact many of them leave the subsidiaries to join Mainline, even if it means handing back a stripe or two.

The latest iteration of the QF Cadet Program will ensure feed into NAA, Qlink, NJS (or whatever the 717/220 operation is called). I’d be very surprised if any go straight into the back seat at Mainline.

[davidclarke]

QF cadets with 250hrs have not flowed directly into Mainline for almost 20 years, so I’m not sure how relevant it is to today’s Ts and Cs.
.
90% of the SOs I fly with these days have extensive jet or turboprop experience, which IMHO justifies the pay of an SO being above a NAA FO. In fact many of them leave the subsidiaries to join Mainline, even if it means handing back a stripe or two.

The latest iteration of the QF Cadet Program will ensure feed into NAA, Qlink, NJS (or whatever the 717/220 operation is called). I’d be very surprised if any go straight into the back seat at Mainline.


You’re kidding right? An SO with extensive jet or turboprop time deserves more than a narrow body FO….that’s the most insane thing I’ve heard all day. We all know that it happens, but that is purely based on legacy conditions.

A narrow body FO has significantly more responsibility, especially flying 4 sector days in challenging conditions than an SO ever will!

I actually wonder sometimes if our mainline colleagues actually do want the subsidiaries conditions raised or do they get some kind of kick out of seeing everyone on lower conditions…..

[ActiveLooker]

You’re kidding right? An SO with extensive jet or turboprop time deserves more than a narrow body FO….that’s the most insane thing I’ve heard all day. We all know that it happens, but that is purely based on legacy conditions.

A narrow body FO has significantly more responsibility, especially flying 4 sector days in challenging conditions than an SO ever will!

I actually wonder sometimes if our mainline colleagues actually do want the subsidiaries conditions raised or do they get some kind of kick out of seeing everyone on lower conditions…..
Agreed!
Transition Layer is delusional! SO time is worth nothing elsewhere in the World. Let’s see who is more valued when the QF Group bury on into the ground. Network A320 F/Os will be taken well before a QF SO.

[Transition Layer]

Calm down people! Think you missed my point, or perhaps I didn’t explain it well.

QF needs to pay Mainline SOs more than subsidiary FOs in order to attract the experienced and proven operators within the group to move to the back seat. I wasn’t talking about the responsibilities of the job as such - I’ve done both, I know which one is harder! Without a little pay rise, why else would you move, given slow progression in Mainline and lower job satisfaction as an SO.

By doing this, Qantas then creates a hole at the bottom and will feed the new Cadets into QLink, NAA, etc. Once they have 5 years jet/turboprop time they too might choose to jump to mainline as SOs. The cycle repeats.

[WillieTheWimp]

Normally you would put cadets in the backseat and let them use a radio here and there. Then after a couple years send them to a subsidiary to get some real experience. Then after 5+ years of regional flying move back to long-haul. It is absurd that a SO can earn more money then a NB jet captain but it is a result of Qantas’s style of outsourcing anything and everything with all the seperate silos.

[ActiveLooker]

Normally you would put cadets in the backseat and let them use a radio here and there. Then after a couple years send them to a subsidiary to get some real experience. Then after 5+ years of regional flying move back to long-haul. It is absurd that a SO can earn more money then a NB jet captain but it is a result of Qantas’s style of outsourcing anything and everything with all the seperate silos.
thru dat!
Thats why Aussie’s from QF have a bad rep with majors overseas. QF talk the talk but their operators are average due to minimal experience and exposure to other ways of thought. Big fish in little bowls!

[Australopithecus]

What is absurd is that narrow body jet captains sometimes get paid so little. Don’t fall into the trap of criticising what others make to somehow justify accepting crap T & Cs. QF S/Os have to languish in that role for longer than would be considered fair, and none of them are low time cadets. All of them have paid dues somewhere else before getting hired.

QF pilots may have a bad rep with pilots from other majors. I cannot imagine caring about that. Especially from some CX ****.

[Wizofoz]

Normally you would put cadets in the backseat and let them use a radio here and there. Then after a couple years send them to a subsidiary to get some real experience. Then after 5+ years of regional flying move back to long-haul. It is absurd that a SO can earn more money then a NB jet captain but it is a result of Qantas’s style of outsourcing anything and everything with all the seperate silos.
Normally?
easyJet, Ryanair,Emirates.... Cadets graduate to the RHS of the main fleet, and do just fine.

[davidclarke]

Calm down people! Think you missed my point, or perhaps I didn’t explain it well.

QF needs to pay Mainline SOs more than subsidiary FOs in order to attract the experienced and proven operators within the group to move to the back seat. I wasn’t talking about the responsibilities of the job as such - I’ve done both, I know which one is harder! Without a little pay rise, why else would you move, given slow progression in Mainline and lower job satisfaction as an SO.

By doing this, Qantas then creates a hole at the bottom and will feed the new Cadets into QLink, NAA, etc. Once they have 5 years jet/turboprop time they too might choose to jump to mainline as SOs. The cycle repeats.

I respectfully disagree. QF needs to pay narrowbody FOs more than SOs as these roles are more safety critical and require significantly more experience than a SO.

The position of SO should be the lowest entry level position, attracting the lowest remuneration, just like it is with JQ 787 and VA 777 prior to Covid. From there you graduate to a regional turboprop or narrow body jet and so on and so on.

How it is currently done in QF where SO seems to be a highly paid role is unique within the aviation industry world wide considering you do virtually nothing………

[Mr_App]

Can they not just do away with the SO? I mean, I don’t know many airlines globally that invest so much in such a rank. Invest more in FOs, makes succession planning much smoother as time rolls
on.

I assume it’s all about cost right?

[WillieTheWimp]

Normally?
easyJet, Ryanair,Emirates.... Cadets graduate to the RHS of the main fleet, and do just fine.
Hahaha...yeah normally. I never said that a cadet could not go straight to the RHS. I think cadets can make just fine FOs with an appropriate amount of training.

Tell me, does Easy Jet, Ryanair or EK have Second Officers? If they did, I can almost guarantee that's where a cadet would cut their teeth!

[deja vu]

Im not suggest anyone should earn less chump. I’m stating that Network pilots should be earning more. Are you struggling with that concept?
Talk about digging the hole deeper, you are in fact suggesting some should earn less for doing the same job, chimp.

[WillieTheWimp]

What is absurd is that narrow body jet captains sometimes get paid so little. Don’t fall into the trap of criticising what others make to somehow justify accepting crap T & Cs. QF S/Os have to languish in that role for longer than would be considered fair, and none of them are low time cadets. All of them have paid dues somewhere else before getting hired.

QF pilots may have a bad rep with pilots from other majors. I cannot imagine caring about that. Especially from some CX ****.
I couldn't agree more. I don't dismiss the SOs who enjoy the Life of Riley. It's merely a humorous observation that is peculiar to Qantas. I put it down to the transition of Qantas from a legacy airline to a low-cost carrier.

[dr dre]

I respectfully disagree. QF needs to pay narrowbody FOs more than SOs as these roles are more safety critical and require significantly more experience than a SO.

That will be inevitable. Once the A350 has a confirmed arrival the new hire SO wage drops significantly. Any jet FO in a subsidiary will be paid more. And then loads more once they get to Captain in one of those subsidiaries. Those who do come to mainline won’t be staying as lifestyle SOs anymore, they’ll be taking the first upgrade available.

[neville_nobody]

I respectfully disagree. QF needs to pay narrowbody FOs more than SOs as these roles are more safety critical and require significantly more experience than a SO.

The position of SO should be the lowest entry level position, attracting the lowest remuneration, just like it is with JQ 787 and VA 777 prior to Covid. From there you graduate to a regional turboprop or narrow body jet and so on and so on.

How it is currently done in QF where SO seems to be a highly paid role is unique within the aviation industry world wide considering you do virtually nothing……

And this is where QF management have dug themselves a large hole. If group was united and pilots had a career path they could move around types and could pay the SO a lower salary as people with experience could move into other roles and be paid what they really should be paid. However the problem they have now is people are leaving poorly paid experienced roles to take a SO position because it's the only way to get some career stability and get paid well.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Agreed!
Transition Layer is delusional! SO time is worth nothing elsewhere in the World. Let’s see who is more valued when the QF Group bury on into the ground. Network A320 F/Os will be taken well before a QF SO.

I doubt it. You forget most of the SOs have come from other airlines with a bunch of experience - they’re not all cadets. They were sitting in your seat prior to joining QF.

[ActiveLooker]

I doubt it. You forget most of the SOs have come from other airlines with a bunch of experience - they’re not all cadets. They were sitting in your seat prior to joining QF.
True for some, but, most operators stipulate current on type within 18-24 months. SO roles aren’t recognised OS the same as at QF.

[cloudsurfng]

True for some, but, most operators stipulate current on type within 18-24 months. SO roles aren’t recognised OS the same as at QF.


how is that relevant? Why would any SO go looking overseas? You realise if QF ‘bury it in’ that’s NAA gone as well yeah!

who deserves what is irrelevant. The only relevant point is ‘you are what you negotiate’. The QF EA has been around for ages. The network ‘agreement’ was some managers wet dream at a time of pilot oversupply. Don’t direct your anger at the QF pilots. If you’re really that pissed you need someone to blame, look at the NAA management.

it may be a hard concept for some of you bitter folk to digest, but you’ll struggle to find a Qf pilot who DOESNT want your terms increased. For a multitude of reasons, one being it’s what you deserve for your work and experience and another being it removed the ability to constantly play one group off against another. We’re all sick of seeing our skills and qualifications dragged d through the mud. Why on earth woukd anyone want to see another pilots pay/terms squashed. Just ludicrous.

[ExtraShot]

how is that relevant? Why would any SO go looking overseas? You realise if QF ‘bury it in’ that’s NAA gone as well yeah!

who deserves what is irrelevant. The only relevant point is ‘you are what you negotiate’. The QF EA has been around for ages. The network ‘agreement’ was some managers wet dream at a time of pilot oversupply. Don’t direct your anger at the QF pilots. If you’re really that pissed you need someone to blame, look at the NAA management.

it may be a hard concept for some of you bitter folk to digest, but you’ll struggle to find a Qf pilot who DOESNT want your terms increased. For a multitude of reasons, one being it’s what you deserve for your work and experience and another being it removed the ability to constantly play one group off against another. We’re all sick of seeing our skills and qualifications dragged d through the mud. Why on earth woukd anyone want to see another pilots pay/terms squashed. Just ludicrous.


:D:D:D:D

[abaderrr]

how is that relevant? Why would any SO go looking overseas?...

perhaps we should be asking the 6 QF SO's that are on the most recent Atlas course?

[cloudsurfng]

perhaps we should be asking the 6 QF SO's that are on the most recent Atlas course?

ok. And what was their previous background? Above posters imply SO’s are all useless sacks that don’t know the first thing about aviation. As TL said…plenty of great pilots with heaps of experience!

[ActiveLooker]

ok. And what was their previous background? Above posters imply SO’s are all useless sacks that don’t know the first thing about aviation. As TL said…plenty of great pilots with heaps of experience!
As Extra Shot gobbled off, QF SOs used to occupy my seat. I’ve had wide body command for 25yrs. Anyone with my experience taking an SO gig at QF is not true to him/her self

[Australopithecus]

Fine. Enjoy your COS18 then and your endless rounds of quarantine. Keep telling yourself that being true to yourself is more important than having a life.

[neville_nobody]

As Extra Shot gobbled off, QF SOs used to occupy my seat. I’ve had wide body command for 25yrs. Anyone with my experience taking an SO gig at QF is not true to him/her self

Or their identity isn't in their job title................................

[cloudsurfng]

Or their identity isn't in their job title................................

bingo. Maybe they’re true to their family instead.

[ActiveLooker]

ok. And what was their previous background? Above posters imply SO’s are all useless sacks that don’t know the first thing about aviation. As TL said…plenty of great pilots with heaps of experience!
Not to mention the new bed turndown service skills QF teach them

[cloudsurfng]

Not to mention the new bed turndown service skills QF teach them


so bitter. Bitter that after a ‘25 year wide body command’ an SO (who may also have been a WB captain) earns more for doing less.

instead of focussing on others, see what you can do about your own situation. You could always chuck an application in if you’re that concerned.

[ActiveLooker]

so bitter. Bitter that after a ‘25 year wide body command’ an SO (who may also have been a WB captain) earns more for doing less.

instead of focussing on others, see what you can do about your own situation. You could always chuck an application in if you’re that concerned.
not bitter mate. I feel for the guys I know at Network. I wouldn’t return to Oz if you paid me double. All I hear about is how bad the boys get treated. The pay structure and SOs is just an example

[Chad Gates]

You are a strange dude, Active.

[morno]

not bitter mate. I feel for the guys I know at Network. I wouldn’t return to Oz if you paid me double. All I hear about is how bad the boys get treated. The pay structure and SOs is just an example

How’s that pay structure over there going?

[onezeroonethree]

The issue isn’t the pay of the SO. It’s the low pay of the subsidiaries that someone else mentioned was a managers wet dream in a pilot over supply.

There has long been a rumour floating around that when NAA announced years ago that they’d get a320s some of their pilots went to management and offered to fly it on min wage or F100 pay just to fly something nicer and get airbus in their log book. Someone correct me if this is true or not. I have been advised their AL is paid at a Fokker rate?

I can tell you every mainline pilot I speak to is gunning for JQ and NAA to get the pay rises they deserve and F-off the group pay freeze bribe. The better they are paid the better off everyone else is, including mainline drivers.

Raise the bottom of the industry. Don’t bring down the top.

Reminds me of a VARA F100 driver who stated in 2019 before the pandemic was even a thing that “sometimes we gotta help management out and take a pay cut. We are already paid very well”……….

[1234fly]

The issue isn’t the pay of the SO. It’s the low pay of the subsidiaries that someone else mentioned was a managers wet dream in a pilot over supply.

There has long been a rumour floating around that when NAA announced years ago that they’d get a320s some of their pilots went to management and offered to fly it on min wage or F100 pay just to fly something nicer and get airbus in their log book. Someone correct me if this is true or not. I have been advised their AL is paid at a Fokker rate?

I can tell you every mainline pilot I speak to is gunning for JQ and NAA to get the pay rises they deserve and F-off the group pay freeze bribe. The better they are paid the better off everyone else is, including mainline drivers.

Raise the bottom of the industry. Don’t bring down the top.

Reminds me of a VARA F100 driver who stated in 2019 before the pandemic was even a thing that “sometimes we gotta help management out and take a pay cut. We are already paid very well”……….

This is well known, some NAA captains encouraged the push through of the current eba to get on the 320 first...and get into check and training

[Jc31]

This is well known, some NAA captains encouraged the push through of the current eba to get on the 320 first...and get into check and training
not true at all the. Current Eba was signed about 2 years before the first bus came. Stop spreading these false rumors that do nothing but divide our pilot group.

[1234fly]

not true at all the. Current Eba was signed about 2 years before the first bus came. Stop spreading these false rumors that do nothing but divide our pilot group.

Very much true. Will encourage people to not let crap like that happen again for this EBA

[Angle of Attack]

Regardless of what everyone thinks Network pilots accepted their crappy pay so it’s their own fault. This fantasy of trying to improve conditions won’t work unless you actually do something and get a decent paid flying job, so just leave and let them deal with it. Simple economics.

[aussieflyboy]

Regardless of what everyone thinks Network pilots accepted their crappy pay so it’s their own fault. This fantasy of trying to improve conditions won’t work unless you actually do something and get a decent paid flying job, so just leave and let them deal with it. Simple economics.

Not quite so simple for a Pilot wanting to stay in Perth and not sit in a plane for 17 hours at a time. NAA is one of the better paying jobs based in Perth (now that Qantas forced NJS pilots out). So an NAA Pilot can’t just leave if they want to remain in Perth and get paid the same.

What they need to be doing is appreciating that QF needs them more than they need QF and encourage their union reps to demand action on negotiating a new EA. If QF is refusing to sit down at the table then time for PIA. Simple.

[TooManyPineapples]

The issue isn’t the pay of the SO. It’s the low pay of the subsidiaries that someone else mentioned was a managers wet dream in a pilot over supply.

There has long been a rumour floating around that when NAA announced years ago that they’d get a320s some of their pilots went to management and offered to fly it on min wage or F100 pay just to fly something nicer and get airbus in their log book. Someone correct me if this is true or not. I have been advised their AL is paid at a Fokker rate?

I can tell you every mainline pilot I speak to is gunning for JQ and NAA to get the pay rises they deserve and F-off the group pay freeze bribe. The better they are paid the better off everyone else is, including mainline drivers.

Raise the bottom of the industry. Don’t bring down the top.

Reminds me of a VARA F100 driver who stated in 2019 before the pandemic was even a thing that “sometimes we gotta help management out and take a pay cut. We are already paid very well”……….

You’re wrong. No idea what idiots spoke about behind closed doors and there are some that probably would have offered to fly it for the same pay, who would even know now? But making up rumours is just way too much fun! Pay when on leave, however, is at the correct rate. Next rumour please…

[TooManyPineapples]

This is well known, some NAA captains encouraged the push through of the current eba to get on the 320 first...and get into check and training

Wow! I never knew this?

So let me get this right. 2 years before the A320’s are introduced a select few come up with a cunning plan to get into check and training. Who also were already in check and training. THEN convinced around 60 pilots to vote yes to a terrible agreement that no one liked. THEN sat there for the next two years secretly bidding their time until PRESTO! They got exactly what they wanted…

Sounds like some geniuses right there!

IF, however, you are talking about a MANAGER back then and not a pilot then I could believe it…

Can I ask, WHO CARES? Most of the pilots who stupidly voted yes are long gone, plenty of new folks for management to brainwash.

Also the CWA was utter trash and the EA was an improvement from that turd of an agreement. Maybe it’s possible that 60 pilots saw this and voted yes as apposed to your ludicrous conspiracy theory.

[Gnadenburg]

Keeping on topic is there really a mass exodus? Didn’t they retract DEC offers a few months ago? If so, mass exodus is being used rather liberally.

[Shot Nancy]

Heard from the Parabadoo refueller that there are only 2 ex F100 checkies on the bus. Difficult to believe that 2 people had so much influence.

[ActiveLooker]

Heard from the Parabadoo refueller that there are only 2 ex F100 checkies on the bus. Difficult to believe that 2 people had so much influence.
That’s a reliable source 🤣

[dusty99]

This is well known, some NAA captains encouraged the push through of the current eba to get on the 320 first...and get into check and training

Heard about this. What a toxic environment. Australian aviation at its finest 👌.

[airdualbleedfault]

Keeping on topic is there really a mass exodus? Didn’t they retract DEC offers a few months ago? If so, mass exodus is being used rather liberally.
I think there are a lot more suckers, sorry pilots, wanting to join than wanting to leave Gnads

[aussieflyboy]

With an EA that expired in 2020 I assume NAA Pilots have weekly EA meetings scheduled with the QF IR team? Regular updates from their unions on how these meetings are progressing?

[TooManyPineapples]

Heard about this. What a toxic environment. Australian aviation at its finest 👌.

Ah yeah heard about it blah blah blah

Never let a good rumour get in the way of bashing other pilots… after all, this is a rumour network right?

[TooManyPineapples]

With an EA that expired in 2020 I assume NAA Pilots have weekly EA meetings scheduled with the QF IR team? Regular updates from their unions on how these meetings are progressing?

Sadly no.

[aussieflyboy]

Sadly no.

How embarrassing.

[TooManyPineapples]

How embarrassing.

Well for the AFAP, AIPA and TWU yes, it is rather embarrassing really. Especially the TWU members since I’m almost certain, and please feel free to screen shot an email example if I’m wrong, most of those misguided pilots have never once been mentioned in their newsletter/communication media… again if I’m wrong please correct me with a screenshot please.

But my word that TWU is a cheap cheap option damn it and way too hard to pass up!

Imagine the savings at retirement in fees…..

[aussieflyboy]

The QF IR Team is waiting for the Alliance takeover to be approved. They will then approach NAA Unions and Reps to begin negotiations regarding a new EA. They’ll then apply the standard playbook of “sign this rubbish deal or we will replace you”.

What we all need to do is encourage and support NAA Pilots to get negotiating BEFORE QF force their hand. Go in hard and fast.

Even if your not an NAA Pilot or you couldn’t care less about what happens in Perth a quick simple email to your union asking them to begin negotiations for a new NAA EBA could make a massive difference to your pay in the future.

The unions will not ignore 300+ emails from pilots all around Australia asking them to get negotiating.

[aussieflyboy]

You have to email a union to ask them to begin negotiations??



Any union I've been a member of has been a wank fest of egos, stopping off there before they head into management.

Doing nothing is obviously not working for NAA. Do you think it’s such a good idea to wait for QF to approach NAA Pilots with a large pineapple?

[Scooter Rassmussin]

There is no doubt at all that AIPA is only supporting QANTAS mainline pilots and all others who think they are being represented are being stooged.
AIPA wil sell out all other group pilots to keep mainline ticking along, eg 3% Payrises, equivalent of 5% in other groups who have mostly got 2% or nothing .
Its time for the group Pilots to get together and form their own representation as at the moment there really isn’t any .

[cloudsurfng]

Let us know how you go.

[Transition Layer]

From this weeks AIPA newsletter (sent to all members, including Mainline):

Network Aviation negotiations commenced this week on Tuesday with AIPA bargaining reps as well as members from AIPA’s Legal/ IR team attending in Perth. It was pleasing to hear the Network COO confirm that their interests were aligned with AIPA’s in terms of ensuring that we could reach an agreement relatively quickly that focussed on pilot retention and career stability/progression for our Network members.

[ActiveLooker]

From this weeks AIPA newsletter (sent to all members, including Mainline):
LMFAO! Rentention!! One operator in china looking for DECs on average coin and I know 8 Network guys sniffing around. Just wait until it gets back to pre COVID demand. Only thing they will retain is an overworked training department, albeit a dis functional one from all reports.

[Transition Layer]

LMFAO! Rentention!! One operator in china looking for DECs on average coin and I know 8 Network guys sniffing around. Just wait until it gets back to pre COVID demand. Only thing they will retain is an overworked training department, albeit a dis functional one from all reports.
Bring it on!

[aussieflyboy]

Good to see some gentle PPRUNE pressure has encouraged the Pilot unions and QF to finally start discussions.

The NAA Pilots will need to provide QF with a list of non-negotiable ‘Strategic Imperatives’ and if these ‘Strategic Imperatives’ are not met then advise QF that the flying that the NAA Pilots currently conduct will need to be operated by another entity.

[RealSatoshi]

Good to see some gentle PPRUNE pressure has encouraged the Pilot unions and QF to finally start discussions.
OH MY WORD!
You are só far ahead of your ski's...if you remotely knew as much as you set out to insinuate, you would've known that negotiations had commenced before you started barking on PPRuNe :rolleyes:

[gordonfvckingramsay]

The NAA Pilots will need to provide QF with a list of non-negotiable ‘Strategic Imperatives’ and if these ‘Strategic Imperatives’ are not met then advise QF that the flying that the NAA Pilots currently conduct will need to be operated by another entity.

Unfortunately for QF, most other entities and/or BU’s available to QF are also bleeding pilots faster than they can replace them. What is quite weird about this bleeding of pilots to other entities is that one of those entities absorbing these pilots is QF itself. Perhaps QF needs to consider just running one airline instead of fvcking over hundreds of perfectly good pilots through outsourcing companies who treat them like latter day slaves.

[WhiteNight]

How’s that pay structure over there going?

Terrible it looks like. Take a look at that agreement vs the award. Looks like network aviation pays award wages, or less than if they are not keeping up, but can more than award hours. Lost count of the network pilots that have applied to over here.

[exfocx]

not bitter mate. I feel for the guys I know at Network. I wouldn’t return to Oz if you paid me double. All I hear about is how bad the boys get treated. The pay structure and SOs is just an example

Geez, that's an odd statement to make for someone up in HK, the guys I know who are still there wouldn't call their treatment good!

[ActiveLooker]

Geez, that's an odd statement to make for someone up in HK, the guys I know who are still there wouldn't call their treatment good!
only live here Ex, work elsewhere.

[stevieboy330]

If people are leaving, where are they going?

[ActiveLooker]

From what I hear most FO's are applying elsewhere, including many who have just joined. Just over 100k these days ain't much to be driving out to work 6 days in a row, often at 4am followed by two off. Half the Captains have already had mainline interviews. It's a shame really it was a great little airline.
really excited for the young fellas who’ve decided to spread their wings. Be so cool to see them with WB Commands when the Captains they are flying with ATM are still F/Os at Kuntas

[Australopithecus]

As if your visceral hatred of Qantas wasn’t already obvious enough you have to again demonstrate your personal affront that you can’t get a DEC gig.

[ActiveLooker]

As if your visceral hatred of Qantas wasn’t already obvious enough you have to again demonstrate your personal affront that you can’t get a DEC gig.
Hey Bud, I have been offered a few DEC gigs but wouldn’t work for the coin or the conditions. Blows my mind how guys like you justify sitting In the RHS for half your career. Is it fear or stupidity??

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

Who cares what ActiveLooker thinks? He’s obviously a liar

[ActiveLooker]

Who cares what ActiveLooker thinks? He’s obviously a liar
Obviously! Look at yourself fella. I’m not a liar, I fact I’m probably the most honest one here. Stop justifying your choice to be a career F/O.

[Fatguyinalittlecoat]

And he’s not very clever it would seem

[AviatoR21]

I honestly haven’t seen this “mass exodus” but more of a “mass hiring”.

[aussieflyboy]

Mass hiring or mass exodus is irrelevant.

The issue for all Australian Pilots is this GA Company’s Pilots are operating on an expired EA and their pay and conditions are rapidly falling below the Award. What’s being done about it?!

[cxflog]

And he’s not very clever it would seem
Hit the nail on the head. Anyone choosing to live in HK after the last 3 years is lacking some critical thinking skills…

[illusion]

A high percentage of WA based pilots have little or no experience outside of the state. Some would need to practice their bed wetting skills before venturing beyond the 129th meridian.

Mass exodus. I call bulldust.

[dr dre]

I honestly haven’t seen this “mass exodus” but more of a “mass hiring”.

Apparently some discontent with a number of pilots on the mainline hold file but NAA management unwilling to release them, or only release them very slowly.

[Gunner747400]

Apparently some discontent with a number of pilots on the mainline hold file but NAA management unwilling to release them, or only release them very slowly.
So the same as every other entity?

[Skippy69]

A high percentage of WA based pilots have little or no experience outside of the state. Some would need to practice their bed wetting skills before venturing beyond the 129th meridian.

Mass exodus. I call bulldust.


Yeah because flying an ILS into Cairns, Sydney or Melbourne is really tough.

Go and get a trade and then tell us how hard being a pilot really is.

​​​

[Icarus2001]

Some would need to practice their bed wetting skills before venturing beyond the 129th meridian.

So what happens when you get East of 129?

Do the laws of physics change? Perhaps SIDS and STARs are much more challenging?

Please educate us.

[43Inches]

So what happens when you get East of 129?

Must be the ocean being on the wrong side of the map.

[BuzzBox]

Must be the ocean being on the wrong side of the map.

Or the sun setting in the wrong place. It's just too confusing. :rolleyes:

[Stationair8]

Perhaps Daylight saving?

Every company I have worked for has had gunna's-going back to PNG, mate wants me to do check and training for his company, CASA want's me as an FOI, or the old I have been offered a gig setting up a new corporate jet operation.

The biggest whingers in any organiasation, tend to have their tongue planted between the bosses arse cheeks.

[ShandywithSugar]

For a start 31° 25' 0.00" S 116° 17' 36.00" E is one place they can't seem to cross on time.

[SIDS N STARS]

Hit the nail on the head. Anyone choosing to live in HK after the last 3 years is lacking some critical thinking skills…

Why? I've been here everyday for the past 3 years. My boss (stupidly) kept paying us a decent salary. If I chose to return to Oz, I would be working more, for less money, paying more tax and going straight to the bottom of some a$$hat seniority list.

Can you please point out the floors in my critical thinking skills so I don't make the same mistake again?

[josephfeatherweight]

Can you please point out the floors in my critical thinking skills so I don't make the same mistake again?
See, even those with flaws can be a pilot!

[morno]

Why? I've been here everyday for the past 3 years. My boss (stupidly) kept paying us a decent salary. If I chose to return to Oz, I would be working more, for less money, paying more tax and going straight to the bottom of some a$$hat seniority list.

Can you please point out the floors in my critical thinking skills so I don't make the same mistake again?

I’m not sure what’s wrong with the floors in your apartment there in Hong Kong, apart from the fact that you’ve probably spent a long time staring at it (and the ceiling) over the last 3 years as you do your mandatory quarantine after every trip.

I know a few guys who have just left HK, some after 20+ years. They didn’t have anything nice to say about the place when they left compared to the place pre about 2018.

For some people who have had an overseas adventure, a cruisy stable job in a seniority based airline sounds like a pretty nice way to see out the last 10-20 years of their career.

[ActiveLooker]

Why? I've been here everyday for the past 3 years. My boss (stupidly) kept paying us a decent salary. If I chose to return to Oz, I would be working more, for less money, paying more tax and going straight to the bottom of some a$$hat seniority list.

Can you please point out the floors in my critical thinking skills so I don't make the same mistake again?
They won’t ever understand that SIDS. Narrow minded people willing to sit in the RHS for 20yrs and think that Oz is the best place in the World will always have an excuse. I’ll continue to take a flat tax rate and better pay than prostitute myself down there.

[Australopithecus]

In general ActiveLurker is right…there were adventures to he had abroad, and once upon a time great pay and COS. CX has fallen a long way from the ‘A’ scale, EK and the others have demonstrated the complete disregard they have for seniority, loyalty, utility. Not so much anymore the swanning around in a linen suit at the Jockey Club on six days off.

As far as high tax goes…it is vexing indeed, but name me one english speaking non-****hole that doesn’t have high tax.

[ActiveLooker]

In general ActiveLurker is right…there were adventures to he had abroad, and once upon a time great pay and COS. CX has fallen a long way from the ‘A’ scale, EK and the others have demonstrated the complete disregard they have for seniority, loyalty, utility. Not so much anymore the swanning around in a linen suit at the Jockey Club on six days off.

As far as high tax goes…it is vexing indeed, but name me one english speaking non-****hole that doesn’t have high tax.
USA depending on the state you choose.

[FKNFKRFKD]

USA depending on the state you choose.
He did say “English speaking non sh!thole”😂😂

[romeocharlie]

They won’t ever understand that SIDS. Narrow minded people willing to sit in the RHS for 20yrs and think that Oz is the best place in the World will always have an excuse. I’ll continue to take a flat tax rate and better pay than prostitute myself down there.

Different horses for courses. I'd rather :mad:**** in my hands and clap than live in the used needle bin of Asia where you've been locked up by tyrants for the last 2 years. I'm quite enjoying prostituting myself in the RHS after spending the better half of a decade in the left seat of a wide-body flying freight to your dumpster fire of a city. Sure, I had some good nights out at Dusk 'till Dawn etc, but those days are gone. I'll happily be taxed up the wazoo if it means I can enjoy my modest 645m2 of paradise (that's south-east QLD for the record :}) most nights of the year with my family. I could give less than the proverbial about which seat I'm sitting in.

[ActiveLooker]

Different horses for courses. I'd rather :mad:**** in my hands and clap than live in the used needle bin of Asia where you've been locked up by tyrants for the last 2 years. I'm quite enjoying prostituting myself in the RHS after spending the better half of a decade in the left seat of a wide-body flying freight to your dumpster fire of a city. Sure, I had some good nights out at Dusk 'till Dawn etc, but those days are gone. I'll happily be taxed up the wazoo if it means I can enjoy my modest 645m2 of paradise (that's south-east QLD for the record :}) most nights of the year with my family. I could give less than the proverbial about which seat I'm sitting in.
geez,you don’t sound happy. Perhaps you should have taken the 1000sqm block to be away from neighbours.

[romeocharlie]

geez,you don’t sound happy. Perhaps you should have taken the 1000sqm block to be away from neighbours.

I actually like my neighbours, so I'm good thanks. Probably best for all concerned I don't visit Hong Kong though.

Enjoy that left hand seat. :ok:

[ActiveLooker]

I actually like my neighbours, so I'm good thanks. Probably best for all concerned I don't visit Hong Kong though.

Enjoy that left hand seat. :ok:
oooooo!! I will tough man.

[AviatoR21]

Active, can you bring something useful to this forum with some facts instead of bagging out Network pilots or just Australian pilots in general. Please Actively Look somewhere else for that. :ok:

[pilotdude09]

Guess there wouldn’t be any bonuses at network given they spent a few cents on a Fokker…..VH-NHP had new seats installed :ooh: very Virgin esque though.

Looked and smelt so new…..hasn’t had years of Pilbara dirt and sweat engrained into the seats

[Likeasomebody]

Is there a training back log atm for new starters?

[Likeasomebody]

Anyone keen to pm me the current situation with Network?

[ActiveLooker]

Anyone keen to pm me the current situation with Network?
They are all too busy doing 5 days a week. Finish day 5 at 2200hrs then start the next week at 0400hrs.

[Jc31]

They are all too busy doing 5 days a week. Finish day 5 at 2200hrs then start the next week at 0400hrs.
nah mate. I’m rostered 3 flights a week and two reserves. Been keeping half my reserves. Every weekend off. Finish Friday at 1830 start Monday at 0645 this weekend. Stop your absolute bulls**t

[Likeasomebody]

nah mate. I’m rostered 3 flights a week and two reserves. Been keeping half my reserves. Every weekend off. Finish Friday at 1830 start Monday at 0645 this weekend. Stop your absolute bulls**t


Holy shtt that actually sounds really decent. Are you LHS or RHS? How's progression looking and Training time frames etc?

[ActiveLooker]

nah mate. I’m rostered 3 flights a week and two reserves. Been keeping half my reserves. Every weekend off. Finish Friday at 1830 start Monday at 0645 this weekend. Stop your absolute bulls**t
yeah right fella. Post your last roster for everyone to see. I’ve seen plenty and you must be a manager if you have all weekends off. I’m calling you out as a liar

[Likeasomebody]

I was told weekends were off in the interview.. Is that not the case?
​​​​

[dusty99]

A high percentage from both fleets get weekends off. Active you need to get off the glass bbq.

[aussieflyboy]

I was told weekends were off in the interview.. Is that not the case?
​​​​

Do you think no one travels to BME, PHE, KTA, GEL, KGI on the weekends? You were not told the truth in the interview.

[Jc31]

Do you think no one travels to BME, PHE, KTA, GEL, KGI on the weekends? You were not told the truth in the interview.
we work weekends but at a much much reduced rate.

[aussieflyboy]

we work weekends but at a much much reduced rate.

You could give up your RDO and get a solid $200 cash in hand - what a deal!

[Jc31]

yeah right fella. Post your last roster for everyone to see. I’ve seen plenty and you must be a manager if you have all weekends off. I’m calling you out as a liar
you’ve got rocks in your head if you think I’m gonna post my roster on here. I’ll break it down for you. On this roster I’ve got 46 flying hours and 104 duty hours. I’ve got two lots of sat/sun rdos and working one sat (course rostered.) I’ve got one weekend with a flight and reserve but I bid for those to have mid week rdos. Network has its problems but in the grand scheme of things I enjoy working there. It can be much better and I believe the pilot group is united enough to achieve that.
also normal Fokker line cap here.
AL not sure what your angle is here but something dosent seem right with you.
my money is that you’re a bot

[Jc31]

You could give up your RDO and get a solid $200 cash in hand - what a deal!I never answer my phone on the weekends

[ActiveLooker]

you’ve got rocks in your head if you think I’m gonna post my roster on here. I’ll break it down for you. On this roster I’ve got 46 flying hours and 104 duty hours. I’ve got two lots of sat/sun rdos and working one sat (course rostered.) I’ve got one weekend with a flight and reserve but I bid for those to have mid week rdos. Network has its problems but in the grand scheme of things I enjoy working there. It can be much better and I believe the pilot group is united enough to achieve that.
also normal Fokker line cap here.
AL not sure what your angle is here but something dosent seem right with you.
my money is that you’re a bot
What’s my scoop? I’ve looked into jobs all over the globe and have mates that work at NAA. They are not happy and certainly don’t work as little as you. 104hr duty vs 46hrs flying. You must be a checker which would justify your weekends off. Stop believing your own BS mate. You are below the award and yet still talk it up. I’m guessing you’ll be in management soon if not already.

[Jc31]

What’s my scoop? I’ve looked into jobs all over the globe and have mates that work at NAA. They are not happy and certainly don’t work as little as you. 104hr duty vs 46hrs flying. You must be a checker which would justify your weekends off. Stop believing your own BS mate. You are below the award and yet still talk it up. I’m guessing you’ll be in management soon if not already.
post your mates rosters then so everyone can see

[Jc31]

What’s my scoop? I’ve looked into jobs all over the globe and have mates that work at NAA. They are not happy and certainly don’t work as little as you. 104hr duty vs 46hrs flying. You must be a checker which would justify your weekends off. Stop believing your own BS mate. You are below the award and yet still talk it up. I’m guessing you’ll be in management soon if not already.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/920x2000/a5d4428d_2aa4_4cdc_be20_1db53fb3ad83_36aabdc097dc9985153db9a 28a4d6c10519f59e8.png
You’ve obviously got a hard on for network. Three threads started and all bagging out network. You’ve got no credibility mate. You’re a unit.

[RealSatoshi]

I was told weekends were off in the interview.. Is that not the case?

I suspect you were told that you could bid for weekends off...that does not imply that weekends are guaranteed off, nor will it ever for most operators out there.

[morno]

ActiveLooker is just trying to justify his bad position by bagging out others. Jealousy is a curse.

[ActiveLooker]

ActiveLooker is just trying to justify his bad position by bagging out others. Jealousy is a curse.
haha, keep thinking that ya clown. I’m very happy and as such will stay O/S for a few more years then come and buy your house that the bank are repossessing cause your measly F/O salary can’t keep up with interest rates. Oh, that’s right, old mate only had 659sqm so I don’t want that. I’m here for my mates and hope they all bail out for better coin.

[FOI]

ActivePillock. You’re not doing our profession, or yourself, any favours so publicly demonstrating your extremely basic low degree of intelligence.

Don’t you think it best to go and dig a hole somewhere, or hold down a bar stool, perhaps giving your keyboard a rest for a while? Will raise the IQ on this forum by a factor of 10 if you did.

[cloudsurfng]

He/she is definitely a boomer.

[Likeasomebody]

Do you think no one travels to BME, PHE, KTA, GEL, KGI on the weekends? You were not told the truth in the interview.

That's fair, I must have got my wires crossed 😈. I figured guys on there swings would be heading home Fridays and the new lot on Mondays haha.

we work weekends but at a much much reduced rate.

That's not so bad then, I'm used to being home every night so that wouldn't be so bad.

I suspect you were told that you could bid for weekends off...that does not imply that weekends are guaranteed off, nor will it ever for most operators out there.

I think you're on the money there RS. I must have heard wrong.

Thanks for the feedback guys and girls.

[PoppaJo]

haha, keep thinking that ya clown. I’m very happy and as such will stay O/S for a few more years then come and buy your house that the bank are repossessing cause your measly F/O salary can’t keep up with interest rates. Oh, that’s right, old mate only had 659sqm so I don’t want that. I’m here for my mates and hope they all bail out for better coin.
Your mates accepted positions in the operation so it’s really a matter for them. NAA offers bottom dollar, that’s no trade secret, your mates would have known that going in. They can bail out whenever they want, not sure what you get from continued sledging the operation on here.

What exactly is a better coin job? Where are these people planning on going? Not much locally that would offer a big jump in pay.

[Jack D. Ripper]

Personally, I think Active sounds like a former NAA employee.

[morno]

Either that, or he’s an arrogant prick who thinks his sh!t doesn’t stink, but deep down most of his colleagues can’t stand him. He’s quite happy to talk himself up in the meantime though.

ActiveLooker, ever thought that maybe these people you hang **** on are actually quite happy doing what they’re doing and have little interest in sitting in a ****hole like you are, earning money and being miserable?

I’ve done both you douche, and I can tell you now, you can hang **** on guys sitting in the right seat for 10 years, but they’ll be happy at the end of their careers and you’ll be facing reality with no job.

[ActiveLooker]

Either that, or he’s an arrogant prick who thinks his sh!t doesn’t stink, but deep down most of his colleagues can’t stand him. He’s quite happy to talk himself up in the meantime though.

ActiveLooker, ever thought that maybe these people you hang **** on are actually quite happy doing what they’re doing and have little interest in sitting in a ****hole like you are, earning money and being miserable?

I’ve done both you douche, and I can tell you now, you can hang **** on guys sitting in the right seat for 10 years, but they’ll be happy at the end of their careers and you’ll be facing reality with no job.
Wow porno, you seem to be the angry one here. I looked into NAA as an option during COVID but it wasn’t for me. I refuse to accept GA conditions and work for nothing after doing that prior to my airline career. I enjoy where I live and have a few investments that ensure I don’t need to work after I decide to retire. I’ll also end my career as a commander not an F/O. The reason I harp on about NAA is because it’s the product of QF management and the new norm for lazy Aussie pilots not willing to fight for better conditions. The entire group have an arrogance that they do it so much better than everyone else. Dream on lads. I will continue to support my mates who are unhappy having moved back to Oz and look forward to seeing them O/S soon. Leave you clowns to it now.

[FOI]

Overseas as far away as possible the best place for you, and society in general… “Commander”…

[Captn Rex Havack]

Absolutely 100% what Morno said!!!

Active Stroker - please stay overseas for our sakes. Have fun counting your money - think I might go for a motorbike ride today, or maybe to the beach, or fishing, or bushwalking, or a game of golf...or maybe I'll just chill out and breathe some fresh air. You just sit and count your money and carry on making your wife miserable.

[josephfeatherweight]

I’ll also end my career as a commander not an F/O.
You sound like a top bloke, Commander. :yuk:

[ActiveLooker]

Absolutely 100% what Morno said!!!

Active Stroker - please stay overseas for our sakes. Have fun counting your money - think I might go for a motorbike ride today, or maybe to the beach, or fishing, or bushwalking, or a game of golf...or maybe I'll just chill out and breathe some fresh air. You just sit and count your money and carry on making your wife miserable.
Great idea! Just gearing up in the Maldives for a 2hr scuba dive before relaxing by the pool. Monday we are heading to our shack in Southern France. Not bad ****holes.

[Captn Rex Havack]

Been there done that plonker. Rather be on my far south coast NSW property on my tractor. You ain't makin me jealous, believe me.

[FOI]

Great idea! Just gearing up in the Maldives for a 2hr scuba dive before relaxing by the pool. Monday we are heading to our shack in Southern France. Not bad ****holes.

a. You’re full of s%it
b. Many on here are either current or ex-expats, you’re not the expert you profess to be
c. Even if you are what you say you are (which I very much doubt), you sound like such a galactic FWIT, I would think your utopian “commander” job and lifestyle you keep banging on about won’t last long. In my experience, off-shore entities weed out morons like you pretty quickly and clinically. No comfy Australian Fair Work Commissions in the real world.

Now I recall you saying you were leaving this thread, so how about it peabrain.

[ActiveLooker]

a. You’re full of s%it
b. Many on here are either current or ex-expats, you’re not the expert you profess to be
c. Even if you are what you say you are (which I very much doubt), you sound like such a galactic FWIT, I would think your utopian “commander” job and lifestyle you keep banging on about won’t last long. In my experience, off-shore entities weed out morons like you pretty quickly and clinically. No comfy Australian Fair Work Commissions in the real world.

Now I recall you saying you were leaving this thread, so how about it peabrain.
poor baby, it’s sad how unhappy you are with life.

[FOI]

About what I expected, you do always meet my expectations I’ll give you that.

[Jc31]

poor baby, it’s sad how unhappy you are with life.
you are a petulant child. How you ever got a pilots licence let alone a command is beyond me. People must call in sick in droves when rostered with you.

[gcpilot]

Hearing that beards will shortly be no longer at NAA? Group policy above FL250! How backwards when the competitor allows them…

[Australopithecus]

Hearing that beards will shortly be no longer at NAA? Group policy above FL250! How backwards when the competitor allows them…

So what? Since when is the competitor the standard of excellence?

Perhaps you can negotiate a razor allowance in your next eba.

[KAPAC]

If the 3 day insta friendly stubble is banned , there will be trouble .

[kitchen bench]

Group policy above FL250

What's the significance of FL250?

[Australopithecus]

Drop down O2 and the DHC-8 ceiling. Don’t know if the Dash-8 has quick-donning masks which apparently don’t seal well against beards. When I started we were advised not to wax our 70’s moustaches lest we have a spontaneous facial combustion in the mask.

[kitchen bench]

Should have said - "What's the significance of aboveFL250?"

As I understand it, crew have to be on oxygen above FL140 (or is it 10,000' - my memory is hazy) in the event of a depressurisation.

If the beard banning policy is "above FL250", why are things different if a crew is wearing oxygen below FL250 down to where it can be ditched?

[Icarus2001]

When I started we were advised not to wax our 70’s moustaches lest we have a spontaneous facial combustion in the mask.

Quote (https://www.pprune.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11314666) Too funny. I hear it every year at EPs, then I point out oxygen is a non flammable gas, tumbleweeds.

[FOI]

I think this thread officially confirms why us pilots will never be taken seriously