RIA Saudi Airlines?

[reverserunlocked]

‘The most-awaited new airline in the region launched by Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund might be named “RIA”, according to a new report.

Arabian Business quoted well informed sources that “RIA” is being tipped as the name for the new Saudi carrier.

The new multi-billion-dollar international airline will become Saudi Arabia’s second national carrier and will be based in Riyadh. Saudia, the present national carrier, operates from Jeddah.

“The brand-new airline aims to do what Emirates did in a quarter of the timescale. It’s unprecedented in the history of aviation. The airline has yet to appoint a CEO – whoever takes the job will have to deliver the most ambitious targets you can imagine,” the report said.

The Kingdom is targeting 30 million international transit passengers by 2030, compared to under four million currently. The report suggests this will mean the new carrier will eventually need to operate over 150 routes globally, across Europe, North America, South America, Africa and Asia, which necessitates a $30 billion investment.’

Predictions for this?

I would imagine:
-lots of shiny big planes
-disinterested crew (if they’re Saudis, which I think is the idea)
-cheap fares
-awful transfer experience
​​​-nothing like the projected pax numbers

[My Rifle and I]

$175,000 signing bonus apparently!

[shukran]

Lol, should be called “LIV Airlines”. I still can’t imagine how people should choose a Saudi airline for international transfer, makes no sense to me.

[FlyHigher]

Will it be a commuting contract?

[T O G A Boy]

I wonder if anyone has further details with regards to recruitment contacts etc …

[777JockeyIN]

They haven't even ordered the planes...why would they even think about recruitment ?

[FBW390]

They haven't even ordered the planes...why would they even think about recruitment ?

RIA....is set to start in Q4 (newspaper) Really? Yes, which planes? Extra ones parked, just recently stopped from flying?
A380s? For JFK, LHR, CDG, FRA via RUH to BKK, SIN, SYD? JNB?
330s and 777s there should be some recent ones...Not too old I mean...
A340s...Ex LH, TG, Virgin... A340-300 ,500 and 600s

Of course, plenty of different versions, not easy at all, but it's the only solution to start soon...I don't see any slots for new planes soon if you order now...
WIll there be A320s too? Same problem...

If it's done like this, yes, recruitment for Q4 should start soon...

FBW 390

[PPRuNeUser0216]

I would rather live in a trash can than fly in Saudi!!

[Bloated Stomach]

I’m sure the Arabs feel the same for living in the west. The west are broke and have their begging bowls out.

[Test Monkey]

Saudi can fuel these aircraft for peanuts compared to most carriers, I’d say they have a great opportunity to be by far the cheapest way between Europe and Asia, I’m not sure that EK is the target so much as QR, but they do have a long way to go to compete with those brands.
Training Saudis to do those jobs will take a long time, so in the interim I’d imagine expats in those cockpits, and as such any openings benefits all pilots worldwide.

[FBW390]

I’m sure the Arabs feel the same for living in the west. The west are broke and have their begging bowls out.
Not sure at all, because the rich Arabs from Saudi Arabia come on summer holidays in the west, in Paris and the French Riviera, London, Geneva…So they must like it…When will the rich people from the west go on holiday to Jeddah or Ryadh ?

[PPRuNeUser0216]

I’m sure the Arabs feel the same for living in the west. The west are broke and have their begging bowls out.

Right. haha

[Pif Paf]

No booze = no pax!

wont work for that reason alone!
(thrust me the “locals” love a rum and coke served via a tea pot! They’ll choose other carriers so they can get it with no questions asked! No Saudi airline is going to be serving alcohol!)

[T O G A Boy]

No booze = no pax!

wont work for that reason alone!
(thrust me the “locals” love a rum and coke served via a tea pot! They’ll choose other carriers so they can get it with no questions asked! No Saudi airline is going to be serving alcohol!)

The world doesn’t revolve around alcohol. Many individuals have experienced a major financial crisis recently and with the soaring prices globally, many will opt to work wherever providing there is a meal at the table.

[Whitemonk Returns]

The world doesn’t revolve around alcohol. Many individuals have experienced a major financial crisis recently and with the soaring prices globally, many will opt to work wherever providing there is a meal at the table.

Incorrect, no airline is going to survive flying long haul with no alcohol, unless the fares are so so cheap to make up for it. Which given their wealth is not out of the question but the most likely scenario is they will serve alcohol the moment you are clear of Saudi airspace

[Squawk 6042]

Incorrect, no airline is going to survive flying long haul with no alcohol, unless the fares are so so cheap to make up for it. Which given their wealth is not out of the question but the most likely scenario is they will serve alcohol the moment you are clear of Saudi airspace

Are people really that desperate for alcohol they cannot even go a few hours without? If I want a pint I'll go to the pub, not get on a plane! I never drink alcohol when flying so it makes no odds to me.

[Whitemonk Returns]

Are people really that desperate for alcohol they cannot even go a few hours without? If I want a pint I'll go to the pub, not get on a plane! I never drink alcohol when flying so it makes no odds to me.

Short answer. Yes. Nobody from the West is paying thousands of pounds to go on a long haul trip with no alcohol, dead on arrival if they even tried it.

[megan]

At my stage of life going by airline means I'm on holiday, that means I enjoy a glass of red or a beer with the meal. No alcohol, no fly with you, sorry.

[Squawk 6042]

Short answer. Yes. Nobody from the West is paying thousands of pounds to go on a long haul trip with no alcohol, dead on arrival if they even tried it.

Well, nobody + 1 ;)

[777JockeyIN]

They can try their level best, but they can't even come close to QR/EK/EY. With or without alcohol.

[Airmann]

They can try their level best, but they can't even come close to QR/EK/EY. With or without alcohol.

No they will and must reach that level. I'm sure when MBS was a young and he wanted something, like most spoilt rich kids in this region, he threw a tantrum and his parents gave him whatever he wanted. Now he’s a grown ‘adult’ and he wants a airplane toy just like the boys next door. He must have it.

I dont know about the long term viability. But in the short term they'll have to throw a lot cash around to get big fast. Maybe you can get a decade or so of good times out of it. But I'm sure even if it is successful, it will later degenerate into what QR and EK are today.

[Qbix]

So what is so special about QR or EK? I have traveled twice with the QR and couldn't see a difference from any other airline. In fact Turkish in my opinion was way better experience than QR.

[PPRuNeUser0216]

So what is so special about QR or EK? I have traveled twice with the QR and couldn't see a difference from any other airline. In fact Turkish in my opinion was way better experience than QR.


Nothing special with QR or EK, just branding I assume. I always think 380 economy is one of the worst ways to fly.

Turkish are great. Always been impressed with them.

[nimrodjoe]

RIA hahahaha

[Sky Hooker]

RIA is occurring, but those who comment on KSA have no knowledge of it and are biased against the country. MBS envisions Riyadh being transformed into a global hub by 2030. Regarding East-West connectivity, the nation is a sleeping giant. I have lived in this country for over a decade and have witnessed its development and transformation. Among other places, Saudi women drive and work in restaurants, supermarkets, and airports. Given that 70% of the population is under the age of 30, watching economic growth over the next 10 to 15 years will be fascinating. Years were required to establish the Emirates and Qatar brands. Saudi Arabia has never prioritized tourism or increased its air operations. With visas available upon arrival, it is no longer necessary for us to transfer all of our religious passengers to other airlines. Imagine how much revenue 1-2% of passengers annually traveling between the west and the east will generate in 2030 when more than 25% of the world's population will be Muslim. Neom is a PIF project that has already generated considerable interest. With the recent announcement that Aramco, the largest company in the world based on market capitalization, will move its headquarters to Riyadh, all Dubai-based companies must relocate to Riyadh by 2024 in order to be eligible for future contracts. In the Saudi Arabian capital, Riyadh, there is a flourishing financial district of international caliber. Saudia will focus on Jeddah, while RIA will expand in Riyadh. We aim for 300 million passengers per year, and if you run the numbers, double-digit growth is inevitable. With PIF backing, I have no doubt that this massive airline project will succeed. I urge you to travel to KSA, where the transformations will astound you.

[Bloated Stomach]

RIA is occurring, but those who comment on KSA have no knowledge of it and are biased against the country. MBS envisions Riyadh being transformed into a global hub by 2030. Regarding East-West connectivity, the nation is a sleeping giant. I have lived in this country for over a decade and have witnessed its development and transformation. Among other places, Saudi women drive and work in restaurants, supermarkets, and airports. Given that 70% of the population is under the age of 30, watching economic growth over the next 10 to 15 years will be fascinating. Years were required to establish the Emirates and Qatar brands. Saudi Arabia has never prioritized tourism or increased its air operations. With visas available upon arrival, it is no longer necessary for us to transfer all of our religious passengers to other airlines. Imagine how much revenue 1-2% of passengers annually traveling between the west and the east will generate in 2030 when more than 25% of the world's population will be Muslim. Neom is a PIF project that has already generated considerable interest. With the recent announcement that Aramco, the largest company in the world based on market capitalization, will move its headquarters to Riyadh, all Dubai-based companies must relocate to Riyadh by 2024 in order to be eligible for future contracts. In the Saudi Arabian capital, Riyadh, there is a flourishing financial district of international caliber. Saudia will focus on Jeddah, while RIA will expand in Riyadh. We aim for 300 million passengers per year, and if you run the numbers, double-digit growth is inevitable. With PIF backing, I have no doubt that this massive airline project will succeed. I urge you to travel to KSA, where the transformations will astound you.

I’m afraid you’re using logic and an open mind. Most people in the west are quite the opposite, in fact they’re very bigoted. If you read previous comments online and on this forum, the bigot minded westerners are narrow minded towards alcohol free practice in Saudi. What they fail to realise is that Saudi is no longer as strict as it used to be. They are working towards a more liberal way of living to align themselves with western values. RIA will not be an alcohol free airline, and it will be a matter of time until prostitution will be widespread in the Saudi kingdom. Those who follow world politics will know that there is a major world shift of power on the horizon. Oil is beginning to run out in Saudi and the US dollars is protected against the worldwide oil sale. There are actually more dollars outside of US than inside the country. China and India will lead the way towards a new super power stretch and Western alliances will be stuck in slow economies and a wider gap between the rich and the poor. RIA with its treasure chest will tap into a world market including a futuristic city, islands in the Red Sea and layover breaks in a very modern western set up. I will be extremely surprised if Etihad survive the competition in the next 10 years. A merger with Emirates will be inevitable.

[nimrodjoe]

I’m afraid you’re using logic and an open mind. Most people in the west are quite the opposite, in fact they’re very bigoted. If you read previous comments online and on this forum, the bigot minded westerners are narrow minded towards alcohol free practice in Saudi. What they fail to realise is that Saudi is no longer as strict as it used to be. They are working towards a more liberal way of living to align themselves with western values. RIA will not be an alcohol free airline, and it will be a matter of time until prostitution will be widespread in the Saudi kingdom. Those who follow world politics will know that there is a major world shift of power on the horizon. Oil is beginning to run out in Saudi and the US dollars is protected against the worldwide oil sale. There are actually more dollars outside of US than inside the country. China and India will lead the way towards a new super power stretch and Western alliances will be stuck in slow economies and a wider gap between the rich and the poor. RIA with its treasure chest will tap into a world market including a futuristic city, islands in the Red Sea and layover breaks in a very modern western set up. I will be extremely surprised if Etihad survive the competition in the next 10 years. A merger with Emirates will be inevitable.

That goes down as one of the most ridiculous posts I have read on this forum.

liberal was the highlight

[Silver68]

China and India will lead the way toward a new superpower........

er ok..... China maybe. India is supposed to be an IT superpower now.....I've never seen such ****e IT in my life. IT wise, nothing works in ME, and it's all Indian.

Just an observation.

[mutt]

I’m more curious about which terminal they plan to use in Riyadh. The new Jeddah terminal is amazing and has the capacity for massive growth, but Riyadhs International terminal is tiny and not extremely welcoming. As for alcohol, they really dont need it based on the number of people using Saudia as a a connecting airline. Their Europe-Asia flights are packed.

[PPRuNeUser0216]

. They are working towards a more liberal way of living to align themselves with western values. RIA will not be an alcohol free airline, and it will be a matter of time until prostitution will be widespread in the Saudi kingdom. e.

What an absolute disgrace of a human being. A waste of a forum now , you should be removed for talking nonsense

[Icarus]

Apparently they're interested in the EY CEO to run it too.

Story Here (https://www.arabnews.com/node/2158741/business-economy)

[Sky Hooker]

Saudi Arabia has a growing middle class, and I can tell you that the people's ability to buy things is so great that the US just gave Saudi citizens 10-year visas. These days, you can get a visa almost anywhere, and the application takes only a few minutes.
Many European countries may soon permit Saudis to enter with a visa upon arrival.
Why would it be easy to make rules about immigration? The short answer is that these people have more money to spend.
Saudi Arabia is in the process of becoming a green energy superpower and is working on a variety of initiatives. They are taking their time since they want to reduce their reliance on oil. If you study economics and numbers, you'll find that the West's debt-to-GDP ratio is scary. Saudi Arabia's GDP/debt is less than 20%, which is a drop in the bucket compared to the western countries, which would be bankrupt without massive ZIRP and QE since the GFC of 2008. Saudi Arabia has an advantage because its religious traffic can easily reach 100 million people per year, while we don't have the facilities to handle that many people.
Wizz Air has been given permission to expand with 20 additional routes in 2023, and the company is aware of the lucrative market in Saudi Arabia. Over two hundred aircraft are on order for Flynas, and SAUDIA plans to have 250 aircraft in service by 2030.
Don't hold Saudi Arabia up to the same standards as other regional players until its tourism and transit sectors are developed.

Onwards and upwards with exciting times for KSA. Haters will always hate.

[PPRuNeUser0216]

This thread is brilliant, carry on boys... really making me laugh.

[reverserunlocked]

I lived and worked in Saudi. I agree that things have changed a lot but I just don’t see how an airline using local labour (and that’s surely the idea) will in any way be able to compete with the best from the neighbours in the Gulf. The mindset is changing, but the pace is glacial. This part of the world simply does not have a service orientated mindset when it comes to local staff.

As anyone who’s ever had to go to a Saudi shopping mall and be served by a local can attest, customer service in Saudi is - to be polite - patchy. There are rare pleasant interactions but they are rare. The best you can hope for is indifference, at worst outright hostility. I can’t see this changing quickly.

As I said - cheap fares, an overall unpleasant experience and an airline to be endured rather than desired.

[mutt]

I lived and worked in Saudi. I agree that things have changed a lot but I just don’t see how an airline using local labour (and that’s surely the idea) will in any way be able to compete with the best from the neighbours in the Gulf. The mindset is changing, but the pace is glacial. This part of the world simply does not have a service orientated mindset when it comes to local staff.

As anyone who’s ever had to go to a Saudi shopping mall and be served by a local can attest, customer service in Saudi is - to be polite - patchy. There are rare pleasant interactions but they are rare. The best you can hope for is indifference, at worst outright hostility. I can’t see this changing quickly.

As I said - cheap fares, an overall unpleasant experience and an airline to be endured rather than desired. you aren’t talking about the present generation.

[Sky Hooker]

I lived and worked in Saudi. I agree that things have changed a lot but I just don’t see how an airline using local labour (and that’s surely the idea) will in any way be able to compete with the best from the neighbours in the Gulf. The mindset is changing, but the pace is glacial. This part of the world simply does not have a service orientated mindset when it comes to local staff.

As anyone who’s ever had to go to a Saudi shopping mall and be served by a local can attest, customer service in Saudi is - to be polite - patchy. There are rare pleasant interactions but they are rare. The best you can hope for is indifference, at worst outright hostility. I can’t see this changing quickly.

As I said - cheap fares, an overall unpleasant experience and an airline to be endured rather than desired.

Certainly not the case. Females are flooding the service industry, and I can attest that the industry's experience and quality of service are exceptional. After women have never had the opportunity to work or drive, give them time.
In the 1960s and 1970s, it took time for the west's diverse social movements, largely based in the United States, to seek equal rights and opportunities and greater personal freedom for women.
Current members of Saudi Arabia's Generation Z were educated in the West and have a different mentality and skill set than the old guard. MBS recognizes that Saudis have enormous potential and that, with the right assistance and opportunities, society will change and progress toward Vision 2030. Capital is already there and will be used to help the KSA grow and create jobs. Be patient and don't rely on your perception of the past; instead, anticipate what Saudi hospitality will offer you once it is given the chance to flourish and reach its full potential.

[Icarus]

EY CEO joins then ,,,, (https://www.arabianbusiness.com/industries/transport/etihads-tony-douglas-agrees-to-join-new-saudi-airline-ria)

[allaru]

No one should doubt or underestimate MBS’s ambitions and available resources to start this new airline however it remains to be seen if it will be done properly or half arsed using cheap labor. The initial setup and the quality of staff they can attract will largely determine the airlines success or failure.

Establishing this new airline and feeding the rapid expansion that follows will require a huge influx of high quality experienced pilots who are familiar with the region and the culture. Incumbent Gulf airlines with a base of experience and confidence in their own checking and monitoring systems have seen it appropriate to lower their entry experience requirements and recruit from less desirable parts of the world. RIA will not have this luxury and will have to buy that experience. The experienced pilots and engineers working for the Gulf carriers are going to be the obvious target for that recruitment.

If you’re considering involvement with this venture know what your experience is worth and don’t sell yourself short. I would expect that RIA is aiming to be one of the worlds premium carriers so this should be the starting point for your salary expectations. While MBS has made huge strides in recent years working in Saudi remains problematic to say the least so it should be considered a hardship posting for the foreseeable future. An additional premium should therefore apply for abandoning your life, family and friends back home to commit to an expat life in Saudi..

Given the risks associate with a new company and the fact that you may have to live in Saudi I would not consider anything less than USD 30k/ month plus housing and benefits. If commuting contracts are offered you need to consider the tax implications, and how you are going to get to and from work. I would suggest that commuting to North America or Australia would be next to impossible. Europe and perhaps South East Asia may be doable depending upon the patterns. In any case commuting contracts may not even be offered.

Exciting and interesting times ahead but don’t sell yourself short. Feel free to post your salary expectations.

[Giuff]

no one should doubt or underestimate mbs’s ambitions and available resources to start this new airline however it remains to be seen if it will be done properly or half arsed using cheap labor. The initial setup and the quality of staff they can attract will largely determine the airlines success or failure.

Establishing this new airline and feeding the rapid expansion that follows will require a huge influx of high quality experienced pilots who are familiar with the region and the culture. Incumbent gulf airlines with a base of experience and confidence in their own checking and monitoring systems have seen it appropriate to lower their entry experience requirements and recruit from less desirable parts of the world. Ria will not have this luxury and will have to buy that experience. The experienced pilots and engineers working for the gulf carriers are going to be the obvious target for that recruitment.

If you’re considering involvement with this venture know what your experience is worth and don’t sell yourself short. I would expect that ria is aiming to be one of the worlds premium carriers so this should be the starting point for your salary expectations. While mbs has made huge strides in recent years working in saudi remains problematic to say the least so it should be considered a hardship posting for the foreseeable future. An additional premium should therefore apply for abandoning your life, family and friends back home to commit to an expat life in saudi..

Given the risks associate with a new company and the fact that you may have to live in saudi i would not consider anything less than usd 30k/ month plus housing and benefits. If commuting contracts are offered you need to consider the tax implications, and how you are going to get to and from work. I would suggest that commuting to north america or australia would be next to impossible. Europe and perhaps south east asia may be doable depending upon the patterns. In any case commuting contracts may not even be offered.

Exciting and interesting times ahead but don’t sell yourself short. Feel free to post your salary expectations.

😂😂😂😂😂

[Jack D]

China and India will lead the way toward a new superpower........

er ok..... China maybe. India is supposed to be an IT superpower now.....I've never seen such ****e IT in my life. IT wise, nothing works in ME, and it's all Indian.

Just an observation.

Given that approximately 732 million people in India do not have access to a proper lavatory (Europe,s pop 746million ) . I would say Indian IT development should be somewhat secondary in the grand scheme of things and yes, also in my experience, the quality of both software and personnel is patchy at best …
I think China has sufficient loos but woefully inadequate waste water systems . No idea about Saudi but hopefully the “long drop” hole in the floor model is being modified and cleaned up

[lucille]

you aren’t talking about the present generation.

Muttsy, Surely not still tripping the light fantastic in Saudia City? I thought you’d be long retired now.

But I do agree with you, I had 10 excellent years in Jeddah. We had a great time and the Jeddah Saudis were great. I cannot say the same for Riyadh.

For anyone thinking of working in KSA, if it’s Jeddah based go for it, you and your family will really enjoy living there. On the other hand, if it’s Riyadh based, look elsewhere - even Kabul or Mogadishu would be better.

[allaru]

Off topic I know but there is NO comparison between China and India. India is and always will be a s$&thole China may have a screwed up political system but it is way cleaner way more developed and productive.
Have great respect for many of my Indian colleagues who by enlarge are hard working and humble people but it doesn’t change the fact about the country itself.

[Jack D]

Off topic I know but there is NO comparison between China and India. India is and always will be a s$&thole China may have a screwed up political system but it is way cleaner way more developed and productive.
Have great respect for many of my Indian colleagues who by enlarge are hard working and humble people but it doesn’t change the fact about the country itself.

You mean like the at Wuhan live food market ?

[allaru]

“You mean like the at Wuhan live food market ?”
no I mean like the people taking a crap in the grass caught in my landing lights as I taxi in after landing…and yes we leave the landing lights on for our amusement .

[Jack D]

“You mean like the at Wuhan live food market ?”
no I mean like the people taking a crap in the grass caught in my landing lights as I taxi in after landing…and yes we leave the landing lights on for our amusement .

see #40. China is no hygiene poster child by a long shot, but an improvement over India in terms of Al fresco defecation . The landing lights for your amusement reveal an unpleasant side to your sense of humour, its not that funny if you think about it and it is old hat so to speak .

[Anilv]

Most important is having an enlightened leader who will not give way to the entitled Saudi nationals.

Having worked with EK, I found it refreshing that we did not have much interference from the top.. and this goes all the way to Sheikh Al-Maktoum. Compared to the the neighbouring 'goat' airline where a passenger who was late for check-in made a call to HQ and the station manager was ordered to accept the late pax. Said station manager was also reprimanded.

The above also applies to hiring and firing... while we did have our share of nationals in EK, for the most part they did contribute instead of just warming the seats.

UAE nationals never gave any problems... it was usually the Saudis (of course), Syrians, Kuwaitis and Egyptians that gave us a hard time.

Having seen the Saudis at work first hand I think they'll have some way to go before they worry the ME3.

Anilv

[mutt]

Muttsy, Surely not still tripping the light fantastic in Saudia City? I thought you’d be long retired now.

But I do agree with you, I had 10 excellent years in Jeddah. We had a great time and the Jeddah Saudis were great. I cannot say the same for Riyadh.

For anyone thinking of working in KSA, if it’s Jeddah based go for it, you and your family will really enjoy living there. On the other hand, if it’s Riyadh based, look elsewhere - even Kabul or Mogadishu would be better.


Im staying to turn off the lights in SVC.
Riyadh has changed dramatically over the last 5 years, you wouldn’t recognise the place nor the people and it’s definitely better than Kabul or Mogadishu.

As for $30,000 a month salaries, keep dreaming as it’s never gonna happen. They have their initial source of pilots from SVA, especially as they are no longer considered Government employees for their pensions.

[k.swiss]

Top boss and full team along to go with it has been snapped up from across the road/highway. Is this a good sign of things to come?

[hunterboy]

Depends what they pay their pilots from across the road/highway. I would suspect they will start their pitch’s low?

[FBW390]

No one should doubt or underestimate MBS’s ambitions and available resources to start this new airline however it remains to be seen if it will be done properly or half arsed using cheap labor. The initial setup and the quality of staff they can attract will largely determine the airlines success or failure.

Establishing this new airline and feeding the rapid expansion that follows will require a huge influx of high quality experienced pilots who are familiar with the region and the culture. Incumbent Gulf airlines with a base of experience and confidence in their own checking and monitoring systems have seen it appropriate to lower their entry experience requirements and recruit from less desirable parts of the world. RIA will not have this luxury and will have to buy that experience. The experienced pilots and engineers working for the Gulf carriers are going to be the obvious target for that recruitment.

If you’re considering involvement with this venture know what your experience is worth and don’t sell yourself short. I would expect that RIA is aiming to be one of the worlds premium carriers so this should be the starting point for your salary expectations. While MBS has made huge strides in recent years working in Saudi remains problematic to say the least so it should be considered a hardship posting for the foreseeable future. An additional premium should therefore apply for abandoning your life, family and friends back home to commit to an expat life in Saudi..

Given the risks associate with a new company and the fact that you may have to live in Saudi I would not consider anything less than USD 30k/ month plus housing and benefits. If commuting contracts are offered you need to consider the tax implications, and how you are going to get to and from work. I would suggest that commuting to North America or Australia would be next to impossible. Europe and perhaps South East Asia may be doable depending upon the patterns. In any case commuting contracts may not even be offered.

Exciting and interesting times ahead but don’t sell yourself short. Feel free to post your salary expectations.

I mostly agree with you allaru, except USD 30K:month is surely not going to happen, Expect rather 25K + housing and benefits, at best, for a non-commuting contract.
If they offer less? 20K? 16K? So WHY will an experienced Captain leave EK or QR to be based in Saudia, in Riyadh? For a few peanuts more?

If it's commuting, let's say 21 ON/ 9 OFF, with confirmed business to home , plus housing and benefits, something like 20K could make people decide to go to RUH.

As allaru said, to start well and rapidly you need quality experienced pilots (and all other staff), and you need to pay a lot more to base in RUH...If you don't...Remember..."If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys"

[worldcity]

I mostly agree with you allaru, except USD 30K:month is surely not going to happen, Expect rather 25K + housing and benefits, at best, for a non-commuting contract.
If they offer less? 20K? 16K? So WHY will an experienced Captain leave EK or QR to be based in Saudia, in Riyadh? For a few peanuts more?

If it's commuting, let's say 21 ON/ 9 OFF, with confirmed business to home , plus housing and benefits, something like 20K could make people decide to go to RUH.

As allaru said, to start well and rapidly you need quality experienced pilots (and all other staff), and you need to pay a lot more to base in RUH...If you don't...Remember..."If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys"

21on/9off? wtf , off to a great start sport!

[TBL Warrior]

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/industries/transport/pif-holds-talks-with-boeing-and-airbus-over-order-of-80-jets-for-saudi-airline

[T O G A Boy]

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/industries/transport/pif-holds-talks-with-boeing-and-airbus-over-order-of-80-jets-for-saudi-airline

That’s impressive. Still no recruitment news, though !!!!

[aussiefarmer]

If their idea is to operate widebodies (ie. A350s) from day 1, I don't think they can poach skippers from QR/EK unless they offer around 30k USD a month for full time contracts (living in Saudi).
It would be too risky to make the move for less than that.

However, they could offer less money but part time contracts that allow you to commute back to EU for example. That's something that many have asked for in EK and never got.

[WrldWide]

If their idea is to operate widebodies (ie. A350s) from day 1, I don't think they can poach skippers from QR/EK unless they offer around 30k USD a month for full time contracts (living in Saudi).
It would be too risky to make the move for less than that.

However, they could offer less money but part time contracts that allow you to commute back to EU for example. That's something that many have asked for in EK and never got.
Money talks, BS walks..... You nailed it.

[kungfu panda]

They won't be hiring First Officers. That will be all Saudi. They will hire a large number of expat Captains on high salaries but it'll be on short term contracts because they will be persistent with the Saudiisation goal.

[FBW390]

They won't be hiring First Officers. That will be all Saudi. They will hire a large number of expat Captains on high salaries but it'll be on short term contracts because they will be persistent with the Saudiisation goal.
you think many expat experienced Captains will leave their permanent position to come for a short term contract ? In Saudi Arabia?

[FBW390]

If their idea is to operate widebodies (ie. A350s) from day 1, I don't think they can poach skippers from QR/EK unless they offer around 30k USD a month for full time contracts (living in Saudi).
It would be too risky to make the move for less than that.

However, they could offer less money but part time contracts that allow you to commute back to EU for example. That's something that many have asked for in EK and never got.
I agree.

[Bloated Stomach]

Absolutely deluded if anyone thinks they'll be paying 30K a month. They'll be paying on par with the ME3 and there are plenty of skippers around the world who will take it. Ask any A350 skjpper in Cathay. The grass is always greener elsewhere even in the dry Saudi dessert.

[TBL Warrior]

Absolutely deluded if anyone thinks they'll be paying 30K a month. They'll be paying on par with the ME3 and there are plenty of skippers around the world who will take it. Ask any A350 skjpper in Cathay. The grass is always greener elsewhere even in the dry Saudi dessert.

Have you ever been to RUH?

EK is currently full of CX Captains whom took FO positions as opposed to going to QR DEC - most say because they didn’t want to live in Doha. The same will apply to living in RUH.

I am sure Douglas and his crew won’t be going just to get a tan either.

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/industries/transport/more-top-etihad-executives-set-to-quit-for-new-saudi-airline-ria

[Bloated Stomach]

Have you ever been to RUH?

EK is currently full of CX Captains whom took FO positions as opposed to going to QR DEC - most say because they didn’t want to live in Doha. The same will apply to living in RUH.

I am sure Douglas and his crew won’t be going just to get a tan either.

https://www.arabianbusiness.com/industries/transport/more-top-etihad-executives-set-to-quit-for-new-saudi-airline-ria

I Have been all over Saudi and know the people better than most. Time will tell and I wouldn't keep my hopes high for anything more than the underpaid market rate.

[FBW390]

Absolutely deluded if anyone thinks they'll be paying 30K a month. They'll be paying on par with the ME3 and there are plenty of skippers around the world who will take it. Ask any A350 skjpper in Cathay. The grass is always greener elsewhere even in the dry Saudi dessert.
Of course they will not pay 30 K. But if they pay like ME3 why would anybody go to Riyadh instead of DXB or DOH ? Why?
I rather think RIA will need to pay in between, like 22 to 25K. And 16 to 20K if it’ s commuting…

[kungfu panda]

you think many expat experienced Captains will leave their permanent position to come for a short term contract ? In Saudi Arabia?
I'm very familiar with what is going on in Saudi Arabia right now. What they will do is offer the minimum which they need to in order to get the Captains they need.
There is always political pressure to Saudiise, therefore the contracts will only be as long as needed to get the personnel. They'll start with 2 years.
I would bet the basic salary will be 40,000 sar with productivity pay on top. Maybe taking it to 70,000 sar if you work hard. No education and a small housing allowance.

[Giuff]

I'm very familiar with what is going on in Saudi Arabia right now. What they will do is offer the minimum which they need to in order to get the Captains they need.
There is always political pressure to Saudiise, therefore the contracts will only be as long as needed to get the personnel. They'll start with 2 years.
I would bet the basic salary will be 40,000 sar with productivity pay on top. Maybe taking it to 70,000 sar if you work hard. No education and a small housing allowance.

AH!
Good luck then...

[kungfu panda]

Let me just add that 20/10 will probably be an option for commuters.

[Zombywoof]

why would anybody go to Riyadh instead of DXB or DOH ? Why?For the entertainment? The Square is always fun.

[manchi83]

I'm very familiar with what is going on in Saudi Arabia right now. What they will do is offer the minimum which they need to in order to get the Captains they need.
There is always political pressure to Saudiise, therefore the contracts will only be as long as needed to get the personnel. They'll start with 2 years.
I would bet the basic salary will be 40,000 sar with productivity pay on top. Maybe taking it to 70,000 sar if you work hard. No education and a small housing allowance.


If that's the case, I'm not sure it will work for many of us.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

I'm very familiar with what is going on in Saudi Arabia right now. What they will do is offer the minimum which they need to in order to get the Captains they need.
There is always political pressure to Saudiise, therefore the contracts will only be as long as needed to get the personnel. They'll start with 2 years.
I would bet the basic salary will be 40,000 sar with productivity pay on top. Maybe taking it to 70,000 sar if you work hard. No education and a small housing allowance.

sorry to say a bet isn’t enough to hold on.
but the designated CEO of RIA knows the expat scenery of the Middle East very well therefore the price tag will be approached in way being certainly tempting for people like or must commute, will salary wise be competitive and will have one or two little gadgets attached to drive in the people they need. Unless that the project is about to fail before they start.

[kungfu panda]

sorry to say a bet isn’t enough to hold on.
but the designated CEO of RIA knows the expat scenery of the Middle East very well therefore the price tag will be approached in way being certainly tempting for people like or must commute, will salary wise be competitive and will have one or two little gadgets attached to drive in the people they need. Unless that the project is about to fail before they start.

The project will certainly go ahead. The $30 billion is ear marked for it from probably the wealthiest Public investment fund in the World.

I think that what I have said is fairly accurate, it maybe a little more but don't expect that. It will probably be commuting - 20/10

[Kennytheking]

The project will certainly go ahead. The $30 billion is ear marked for it from probably the wealthiest Public investment fund in the World.

I think that what I have said is fairly accurate, it maybe a little more but don't expect that. It will probably be commuting - 20/10

I don't think anyone is disputing what you say....I think the consensus is that you will not find many from EK interested. The number you mention are comparible with what we already make, so why make the move to an untested operator in a less desirable location. I would consider a move for $10k more but not for $1000.

Maybe their target is A320 pilots from Europe LCC's and then they will simply be a feeder to EK & QTR...

[flyTheBigFatLady]

I don't think anyone is disputing what you say....I think the consensus is that you will not find many from EK interested. The number you mention are comparible with what we already make, so why make the move to an untested operator in a less desirable location. I would consider a move for $10k more but not for $1000.

Maybe their target is A320 pilots from Europe LCC's and then they will simply be a feeder to EK & QTR...

from what I hear, they want to be bigger than their competition such as QR and EK
starting with a320 they aiming for a luxury long haul operation. LH operation will focus on 3 types (787,777x and 350)
they are definitely not going to be feeder for someone else.
as rumors say starting line for long haul is within 2 years from now
as I mentioned rumors. According to some post the high budget they like to deliver looks like going big and not only 320 fleet as feeder.

i also hear their is a lot interest of ME3 pilots, as well as some fear from them to loose pilots to it, as some measures have been taken to keep employees who have rejoined or joined recently. If it will be enough - we’ll see.

let’s see what they come up with

[Kennytheking]

from what I hear, they want to be bigger than their competition such as QR and EK

They can have lofty ambitions - they can be EK x2 if they like but they will not attract the talent from EK with the numbers mentioned here.

KSA has some serious image(human rights, etc) challenges to overcome, whilst Dubai has come a long way in the last 30 years. Why would people choose KSA over Dubai when they have questions over how safe their women will be. KSA will have to throw money at this Chinese style, or accept the fact that they will be selecting from EK left overs.

[Bloated Stomach]

I think people on this thread forget that there are pilots outside of the middle East and the cream of your crop don't all work for the middle eastern operators. There are highly competent pilots working in low cost operations throughout the world. They are extremely underpaid as well as undervalued and will no doubt find interest in this Saudi start up. They also won't be asking the numbers that are being thrown around on this thread. Although I feel we are worth every penny, the world has now changed and Airline operators are run by bean counters. The manufacturers are also run by bean counters so cost is something that is at the top of the priority list. With regret, safety or experience isn't and that's the bitter truth to swallow going forward.

[kungfu panda]

I think people on this thread forget that there are pilots outside of the middle East and the cream of your crop don't all work for the middle eastern operators. There are highly competent pilots working in low cost operations throughout the world. They are extremely underpaid as well as undervalued and will no doubt find interest in this Saudi start up. They also won't be asking the numbers that are being thrown around on this thread. Although I feel we are worth every penny, the world has now changed and Airline operators are run by bean counters. The manufacturers are also run by bean counters so cost is something that is at the top of the priority list. With regret, safety or experience isn't and that's the bitter truth to swallow going forward.

Well, yes and no. What They're going to need is experienced Widebody, longhaul Captains who will fly with relatively inexperienced Saudi First Officers. They're not going to be looking for Capt. Joe Bloggs from Ryanair.
If what I suggest will be the initial offer does not attract sufficient of the right candidates then obviously they'll up that offer. They will believe commuting to be very attractive though.

[perantau]

The SV expats that were moved from JED to RUH had 20/10 for a while.. Didn't that & other benefits later change unfavourably for them?

Would Ria be any different?

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Well, yes and no. What They're going to need is experienced Widebody, longhaul Captains who will fly with relatively inexperienced Saudi First Officers. They're not going to be looking for Capt. Joe Bloggs from Ryanair.
If what I suggest will be the initial offer does not attract sufficient of the right candidates then obviously they'll up that offer. They will believe commuting to be very attractive though.

as for the experience once they need only a handful. And only they proof ETOP, LVP, NAT competence for the AOC
for the rest EK,EY, and QR have proofed that a Guy mit maybe 1000 command on A320 can be good enough to jump on a wide body a direct entry captain (EK has done that on the 330/340)
experience is only a convienient at the time it suits them but mostly overrated for these companies (e.g. taking a320 and crj FOs directly onto the 380 instead of numerous 330/340 FO form within the company as EK did it in 2014, or putting a10000hr 340 capo in the right seat of a 380 because only 1000 hour came from EK)

bottom line experience is only important when it suits them and not what we believe would be practicable or they should have

as mentioned above if they come up with medium terms, attractive enough for people from eu LCC. They will take them no matter what experience they have.

those building the training and fleet management, yes they will be very experienced in their roles and will also be paid accordingly.

for the part with the Saudia FO - ask the question why they start a new airline, rather than ramping up saudia airlines.
because the working conditions for locals don’t allow to make a business ala EK or QR, which means this new airline will be based on mostly or entirely expats as the rules of employment are completely different to those for an saudia national.

[kungfu panda]

as for the experience once they need only a handful. And only they proof ETOP, LVP, NAT competence for the AOC
for the rest EK,EY, and QR have proofed that a Guy mit maybe 1000 command on A320 can be good enough to jump on a wide body a direct entry captain (EK has done that on the 330/340)
experience is only a convienient at the time it suits them but mostly overrated for these companies (e.g. taking a320 and crj FOs directly onto the 380 instead of numerous 330/340 FO form within the company as EK did it in 2014, or putting a10000hr 340 capo in the right seat of a 380 because only 1000 hour came from EK)

bottom line experience is only important when it suits them and not what we believe would be practicable or they should have

as mentioned above if they come up with medium terms, attractive enough for people from eu LCC. They will take them no matter what experience they have.

those building the training and fleet management, yes they will be very experienced in their roles and will also be paid accordingly.

for the part with the Saudia FO - ask the question why they start a new airline, rather than ramping up saudia airlines.
because the working conditions for locals don’t allow to make a business ala EK or QR, which means this new airline will be based on mostly or entirely expats as the rules of employment are completely different to those for an saudia national.

I understand all of your argument but I don't think that what you're saying will apply in Saudi for expats. They will take Saudi A320 Captains and upgrade them to A350's but to do that for foreign Pilots would be totally counter to the extremely important Saudiisation policy.

As an expat, you'll need experience that justifies over-riding saudisation. A short haul Captain will not meet that criteria. All of the foreign A320 Captains who remain in Saudia, have been there for as long as 16 years, maybe longer, they have never had any promotion.

As for First Officers, I think I heard a ridiculous figure just prior to Covid that the Saudi's had something like 5000 students in the United States doing the 4 year degree in Aviation related subjects, followed by Commercial licence, with the intention of returning as First Officer to Saudi. To my knowledge, they will not need to hire foreign F/O's. If they did, there certainly would never be an upgrade.

This is all IMHO based on years of Saudi experience.

[Sky Hooker]

Negative people have no knowledge of KSA.

I've lived here since 2011, and I've been familiar with the kingdom since 2004, and the changes I'm observing are nothing short of astounding.
The biggest economy in the Middle East and KSA helped Dubai grow, and I've always known they could diversify their economy when they needed to, which is what is happening now.

MBS is fully aware of the fact that society as a whole is transforming and Generation Z is educated in the West. 70% of the country's youngsters support him.

We aim to bring 300 million passengers by 2030, and if we assume a conservative growth rate of 50%, that is a tremendous increase. With airports and infrastructure being upgraded, it is only a matter of time before you see what is happening on the ground as a result of the six Freedom flights.
They have Umrah and HAJ in their back pockets, and with transit passengers, they will create a new market.

Emirates and Qatar are success stories, but ask yourself if the double-digit growth of the last two decades will continue.

The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is at the start of the S-curve, and its growth will be enormous as it gains market share and expands globally.

​​​​​​Regarding the COS, all we can do is wait and see. With this projected expansion in front of you, the experience will always be necessary.
No numbers have been run yet, but I am sure that it will be the best in its field and very competitive.
Don't forget that the majority of men hired from outside the KSA will need to convert their licenses to GACA, a process that can take up to four to six months.

[Giuff]

Well, yes and no. What They're going to need is experienced Widebody, longhaul Captains who will fly with relatively inexperienced Saudi First Officers. They're not going to be looking for Capt. Joe Bloggs from Ryanair.
If what I suggest will be the initial offer does not attract sufficient of the right candidates then obviously they'll up that offer. They will believe commuting to be very attractive though.

I think you should remember that many drivers kicked out of DXB during covid, are now flying for european LCCs. Not only joe blogss here mate.

[kungfu panda]

I think you should remember that many drivers kicked out of DXB during covid, are now flying for european LCCs. Not only joe blogss here mate.
I imagine LCC, Widebody, longhaul experienced Capt. Bloggs will be very welcome.

It'll all come down to Widebody, longhaul and Captain.

No disrespect meant.

And by the way, I agree with Sky Hooker.

[mutt]

You are forgetting about Saudi nationals joining from SAUDIA. If they pay enough they will get all their crew from them.

[kungfu panda]

You are forgetting about Saudi nationals joining from SAUDIA. If they pay enough they will get all their crew from them.

Mutt, I respect your longevity on this forum as an Oracle on Saudi Aviation. But that statement is not correct. They will get some of the Captains from Saudia, no doubt. But the vast majority of Saudia Captains live in Jeddah and want to stay there. They are mostly government employees with the best pensions in the World. To leave Saudia and move to a non government contract with Ria in Riyadh would be very unattractive.

I would say that they will take A320 Captains from FlyNAS and Flyadeal (Saudi Nationals) to fly the A350.

But they will still need the correctly qualified foreign Captains. In quite large numbers.

[mutt]

kungfu panda Your statement is correct as of today, but effective 1st qtr 2023, they will no longer be Government employees with the best pensions in the world and with the removal of credit time for salaries, they are no longer the best paid. There is a pension cut off of 25 years of service, some will be allowed to continue, some will have it transferred to a public pension fund that has a maximum monthly payment limit a lot lower than the SV pension for high earners. Lots of Saudi’s took wide body command and were forced to move to Riyadh. So nothing to keep them working for them anymore. No massive salary, no massive pension and no home base. Hello RIA.

In fact, Saudia is the one that I foresee having to recruit foreign captains. They have achieved 100% localisation for First Officers and only have about 80 foreign Captains left, but that will change.

[allaru]

Can't see Saudia releasing pilots to go to RIA, if they do who's going to replace them.

Cadets will happen later but not for the first few years at least and then only in measured amounts.

A320/737 Captains to A350/77X Captain, wishful thinking from aspiring narrow body pilots. From left seat 320/737 to right seat 350/77X maybe. Sounds fine and dandy until until they have their first flight across the poles to ORD in the middle of winter or to PEK for the first time. It was tried before in another nearby airline and they got away with it, just, thanks in no part to the existing demographic of more experienced FOs as well as a well established training and procedural systems in place. Even so the experiment was not repeated.

RIA will not have such a luxury, A350/77X pilots will consist of well seasoned wide body types, not boys from some low cost carrier strapping around their backyard in a bug smasher.

[Airmann]

Some on this thread alluded to the fact that EU short haul captains moved to ME 3 on wide bodies and were successful. In fact it was the opposite. It was an unmitigated failure that has caused a lot of headache for the airlines. Some stopped the proccess and required narrowbody captains to go to the right seat for a while.

Whatever the outcome there will be a huge increase in the number of jobs available in Saudi in the comming decade and someone will have to fill them.

[mutt]

Can't see Saudia releasing pilots to go to RIA,

How do you think that they are going to stop them?

[Time Traveller]

Got an agenda there, allaru and Airmann?

Majors such as British airways have upgraded hundreds direct to long haul command, with no prior WB experience, over the course of decades. It's not rocket science for a well briefed, capable and experienced SH Captain. A few egos have inflated along with the fuselage diameter here ("bug smasher, back yard"?)
(TT; ex WB P1, before you ask)

[kungfu panda]

Exactly. I've flown 8 hours block time across the Atlantic in my bug smasher and I'm pretty sure it dosent get more complicated with the increase in seat rows, in fact I regularly complain its easier on the body and mind to fly transatlantic than to fly from the UK to TFS or AYT and back in the same day

This is totally off topic. The point has nothing to do with bug smashers or puddle jumpers or the competence of those Pilots. The situation is, like it or not, the Saudi's will not upgrade foreign Pilots into positions. They'll upgrade their own Pilots. A foreign Pilot wishing to work for a Saudi Airline needs to already have achieved the position which he is applying for. The exception is that A330 Pilots will be able to apply for A350 positions.
And it's Captains only, simply because the Saudi's will comfortably have enough of their own F/O's.

[TORDEA]

I’m afraid you’re using logic and an open mind. Most people in the west are quite the opposite, in fact they’re very bigoted. If you read previous comments online and on this forum, the bigot minded westerners are narrow minded towards alcohol free practice in Saudi. What they fail to realise is that Saudi is no longer as strict as it used to be. They are working towards a more liberal way of living to align themselves with western values. RIA will not be an alcohol free airline, and it will be a matter of time until prostitution will be widespread in the Saudi kingdom. Those who follow world politics will know that there is a major world shift of power on the horizon. Oil is beginning to run out in Saudi and the US dollars is protected against the worldwide oil sale. There are actually more dollars outside of US than inside the country. China and India will lead the way towards a new super power stretch and Western alliances will be stuck in slow economies and a wider gap between the rich and the poor. RIA with its treasure chest will tap into a world market including a futuristic city, islands in the Red Sea and layover breaks in a very modern western set up. I will be extremely surprised if Etihad survive the competition in the next 10 years. A merger with Emirates will be inevitable.
India the next super power? Are you on drugs or what? You probably Indian because only an Indian will be that delusional and make these preposterous predictions!!!

[Sky Hooker]

These individuals are discussing an airline that has not even been formally announced. People are making uninformed guesses about who will move, what type of aircraft they will use, etc.
Pilots with a chip on their shoulder consider WB flight to be equivalent to rocket science. I'm glad and hopeful that I won't ever have to share a flight deck with super pilots like Allaru who are very good at what they do.
Saudis are well capable of transitioning to RIA, but only time will tell how everything pans out.
As an aviator, a degree of modesty and humility would be quite desirable.
With the aforesaid mentality, please do not visit Saudi Arabia, yet your egos will still submit a CV and join RIA.


My 2cents

[Sky Hooker]

With the PIF's major unveiling of the new King Salman Airport today, http://saudigazette.com.sa/article/627415.
Haters will continue to hate.
Bring it on, I say.
exciting future for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

[MondayGrouch]

Does any of that team have any start-up experience? It's a different world trying to get something off the ground vs joining an existing behemoth...

[kungfu panda]

Does any of that team have any start-up experience? It's a different world trying to get something off the ground vs joining an existing behemoth...

I'd suggest looking at the background of Tony Douglas. He's going to have $30B to spend. Is he capable of building a team that will get an Airline off the ground. Money certainly will be no object.

[virga 208]

Where i am, people are being upgraded after 6 months in the company something unheard of. There is no such a thing as forecasting or analyzing anymore the world has changed and history is being written but great forum discussions is always welcome.
Have a good one guys :ok:

[Tight Seat]

Bump

All gone quiet. Does anyone have any fresh information?

[lospilotos]

"Tony Douglas departs as CEO of new Saudi airline RIA after just 2 months"
https://www.arabianbusiness.com/industries/transport/exclusive-tony-douglas-departs-as-ceo-of-new-saudi-airline-ria-after-just-2-months

[mutt]

kungfu panda in 2022, 20 wide body local captains and 16 first officers resigned, that golden pension isn’t enough to keep the younger generation. However they did delay changing the pension from government to private for another 2 years.

[airflirt]

Given that approximately 732 million people in India do not have access to a proper lavatory (Europe,s pop 746million ) . I would say Indian IT development should be somewhat secondary in the grand scheme of things and yes, also in my experience, the quality of both software and personnel is patchy at best …
I think China has sufficient loos but woefully inadequate waste water systems . No idea about Saudi but hopefully the “long drop” hole in the floor model is being modified and cleaned up

This is outright racist and a big lie. China is already a superpower & India has established itself as an IT powerhouse. And you are using your smartphone and Internet courtesy Indian software developers. As for loos, please travel once to India and see the transformation, or else you will retain the same snake charmer image of the country that Western propagandist bandy about. 220 million Covid doses were administored in India mostly made within the country. Saudi Arabia is witnessing a transformation of a scale unknown in recent history. I know because I am a frequent visitor. So give them time and good things will emerge.

[what-to-do]

This is outright racist and a big lie. China is already a superpower & India has established itself as an IT powerhouse. And you are using your smartphone and Internet courtesy Indian software developers. As for loos, please travel once to India and see the transformation, or else you will retain the same snake charmer image of the country that Western propagandist bandy about. 220 million Covid doses were administored in India mostly made within the country. Saudi Arabia is witnessing a transformation of a scale unknown in recent history. I know because I am a frequent visitor. So give them time and good things will emerge.


“India has established itself as an IT powerhouse”…… That’s brilliant.

I’ve spent 10 years in the ME and all they have is Indian IT ‘specialists’ and it’s been the worst IT experience of my life. All the good IT guys to the US, the rest go to the ME.

[Mango]

Any updates on why Tony Douglas departed RIA after 2 months?

[TBL Warrior]

“India has established itself as an IT powerhouse”…… That’s brilliant.

I’ve spent 10 years in the ME and all they have is Indian IT ‘specialists’ and it’s been the worst IT experience of my life. All the good IT guys to the US, the rest go to the ME.

the same could be said about pilots

[c560xl]

Any update on RIA.
what’s happening after TD left.
Heard all the plan has gone out of the window
Now they are concentrating SV
Any input

[kungfu panda]

Any update on RIA.
what’s happening after TD left.
Heard all the plan has gone out of the window
Now they are concentrating SV
Any input
I don't think that any of that is true. I think that the original time line has gone out of the window. There are rumours out there, for example they'll buy flynas and turn that into RIA but unlikely, I think.
RIA will start but they clearly need to get the right management into place first.

[c560xl]

I don't think that any of that is true. I think that the original time line has gone out of the window. There are rumours out there, for example they'll buy flynas and turn that into RIA but unlikely, I think.
RIA will start but they clearly need to get the right management into place first.
I don’t think NAS will ever be sold to RIA
But anything is possible who knows

[antonov09]

Allaru - Airmann

You two do seem to like talking a load of old muck. Of the 50 plus guys I know that went DEC widebody to EK and QR since 2012- every single one of them was a 737 Bug Smasher Captain. Granted the majority were Bug Smasher TREs and LTCS. Make no mistake - the transition with every one of them was seamless. All are still out there (ME). Most are trainers and one of them is the current TM 777 with EK having being made DSM a year after joining. Not bad for a bug smasher.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. All of that terribly complex polar stuff must be gone to your heads.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Allaru - Airmann

You two do seem to like talking a load of old muck. Of the 50 plus guys I know that went DEC widebody to EK and QR since 2012- every single one of them was a 737 Bug Smasher Captain. Granted the majority were Bug Smasher TREs and LTCS. Make no mistake - the transition with every one of them was seamless. All are still out there (ME). Most are trainers and one of them is the current TM 777 with EK having being made DSM a year after joining. Not bad for a bug smasher.
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. All of that terribly complex polar stuff must be gone to your heads.

i don’t know where people got that ego from to say what TT P1 is able to do or not but it’s BS
i came from TT and it was be far harder work than any other NB,WB in SH or LH ULH i ever flew.
TT is usual less automation and less protection etc. I many cases TT pilots are completely undervalued by some jet ego.
i have seen a few jet egos fail flying a TT when they realized that manual flight means manual and went overwhelmed when there was no FD to help or flaps speeds have to be memorized because they are not shown on a display. Sometimes I think some jet man have to protect their kingdom

[Tight Seat]

Well that made absolutely no sense.

[rudestuff]

I think maybe he's talking about Turboprop pilots...?

[flyTheBigFatLady]

Well that made absolutely no sense.
TT turboprop
NB narrow body
WB wide body
SH short haul
ULH/LH ultra/Long haul

[TBL Warrior]

https://gulfnews.com/business/aviation/saudi-arabia-launches-new-airline-riyadh-air-1.1678620617316

[Dirtydozen320]

[QUOTE=TBL Warrior[/QUOTE]

Didn’t Tony resign?

[jackbequick]

So recruitment begins. No commuting and the adverts look like a cut and past from 🙄🙄🙄.

www.riyadhair.com

Good luck to all that apply 👍

[SWBKCB]

Doesn't look like it - the link at post #97 now comes up page not found


Mr. Tony Douglas has been appointed Chief Executive Officer of #RiyadhAir (https://twitter.com/hashtag/RiyadhAir?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm %5E1634874969271197697%7Ctwgr%5E9c3b544aa5483ed0451952a8b531 58d686e4b7a7%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fgulfnews.com%2Fbusiness%2Faviation%2Fs audi-arabia-launches-new-airline-riyadh-air-1.1678620617316&src=hashtag_click). He has more than 40 years of experience in the aviation, transportation and logistics industries.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrA-Hl0XwAEm6nI?format=jpg&name=small (https://twitter.com/PIF_en/status/1634874969271197697/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E16348 74969271197697%7Ctwgr%5E9c3b544aa5483ed0451952a8b53158d686e4 b7a7%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fgulfnews.com%2Fbusiness%2Faviation%2Fs audi-arabia-launches-new-airline-riyadh-air-1.1678620617316)
11:12 AM · Mar 12, 2023 (https://twitter.com/PIF_en/status/1634874969271197697?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembe d%7Ctwterm%5E1634874969271197697%7Ctwgr%5E9c3b544aa5483ed045 1952a8b53158d686e4b7a7%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fgulfnews.com%2Fbusiness%2Faviation%2Fs audi-arabia-launches-new-airline-riyadh-air-1.1678620617316)

[Stallone]

FO - https://riyadhair.tal.net/vx/lang-en-GB/mobile-0/appcentre-1/brand-4/xf-cab35644ac4b/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/3/opp/37-First-Officer/en-GB

CN - https://riyadhair.tal.net/vx/lang-en-GB/mobile-0/appcentre-1/brand-4/user-14374/xf-1e42d08854c2/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/3/opp/36-Captain/en-GB

[beauport potato man]

Where can you find contract t’s & c’s??

are we to expect similar to other gulf carriers but swapping DXB lifestyle for RUH?

[indian_pilot]

Any idea about the package and lifestyle options in RIA?

[Raph737]

FO - https://riyadhair.tal.net/vx/lang-en-GB/mobile-0/appcentre-1/brand-4/xf-cab35644ac4b/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/3/opp/37-First-Officer/en-GB

CN - https://riyadhair.tal.net/vx/lang-en-GB/mobile-0/appcentre-1/brand-4/user-14374/xf-1e42d08854c2/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/3/opp/36-Captain/en-GB

LOL Good luck to them. This may appeal to some South American or African pilots due to salaries being higher than their hime countries, but they will struggle to fill this. Mainly because experienced pilots seek stability and work life balance and open ended contracts with weekly roster updates isn’t it. I wonder what will the compensation be, if it beats Qatar substantially or not. That CEO is a bad virus, that’s the first mistake the Saudi’s did as he did terrible mistakes at Etihad, pilots there hated him and many left due to that management style.

[Giuff]

FO - https://riyadhair.tal.net/vx/lang-en-GB/mobile-0/appcentre-1/brand-4/xf-cab35644ac4b/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/3/opp/37-First-Officer/en-GB

CN - https://riyadhair.tal.net/vx/lang-en-GB/mobile-0/appcentre-1/brand-4/user-14374/xf-1e42d08854c2/candidate/so/pm/1/pl/3/opp/36-Captain/en-GB

they will never find people.
I give them 3 months and things will change dramatically (20/10 roster and also narrow body experience counted). Without a commuting roster they will never find anybody.

[Raph737]

they will never find people.
I give them 3 months and things will change dramatically (20/10 roster and also narrow body experience counted). Without a commuting roster they will never find anybody.

It’s also the undertone of how it’s written, it’s somewhat “dry” and “aggressive”. There’s no selling of any positive aspects, no mention of benefits or even salary. There’s nothing in this that makes anyone with experience go “oh I would love that”. Anyone with experience in recruitment, like myself, will read between the lines and go “stay far away.”

It shows that whoever dealing with this isn’t a people’s person and it is highly likely that those who join first will be treated poorly.

[Mute hyena]

They are just testing the waters , there is not enough information for a decision to move there . The fleet apparently is going to be 787/350 and none of these airplanes are available in big numbers for the next 2-3 years. Ek took 2 years to get back on 80% of their network with airplanes and crews already available. If you see through the shisha smoke nothing is happening anytime soon.

[Giuff]

It’s also the undertone of how it’s written, it’s somewhat “dry” and “aggressive”. There’s no selling of any positive aspects, no mention of benefits or even salary. There’s nothing in this that makes anyone with experience go “oh I would love that”. Anyone with experience in recruitment, like myself, will read between the lines and go “stay far away.”

It shows that whoever dealing with this isn’t a people’s person and it is highly likely that those who join first will be treated poorly.

I agree.
This way they go nowhere.

[SOPS]

Can someone please tell them that it’s one aircraft or many aircraft. ( not aircrafts). 900 hours a target, 8 days off a month… sounds very enticing .. not. And how much are they paying? They are kidding themselves with this ad.

[Giuff]

Can someone please tell them that it’s one aircraft or many aircraft. ( not aircrafts). 900 hours a target, 8 days off a month… sounds very enticing .. not. And how much are they paying? They are kidding themselves with this ad.

that was a test. I am sure. They'll get zero applications. Then they will start the real game.
20/10 with a competitive package.
No one from the US for sure. Maybe some from the ME3 and Europe. But they gotta move fast.

[Hitchiker]

:D sure!
8 days off a month ,minimum uh,to be spent in RUH
i can still remember those rumors “they will pay 25,000 usd” “no 30,000 usd”
:O for a non commuting contract they will need to pay 40,000 usd!
Do you still trust these people?Whatever is written on the contract is as valuable as a piece of toilet paper down there… how much is your freedom worth?
Enjoy!

[Capn Rex Havoc]

20/10 - No bloody way
My Current gig is 18/13 and should be 14/14.

[what-to-do]

I think many people in the ME were ready to jump ship with RIA….. unfortunately, this job advert has fallen flat and left a few of us scratching our heads. Clearly, this would be just be Qatar or Emirates 2.0 and living in Riyadh on my days off…. No thanks.

[TBL Warrior]

20/10 - No bloody way
My Current gig is 18/13 and should be 14/14.

I was thinking the same, even 20/10 would be unattainable living in RUH for that amount of time. Furthermore, the Saudi’s operate under a version of FAA regulations, whereby you only need 24 hours free of duty in any 7 day period. The result could be consecutive duties with only a period eg. 2am-2am free of duty to legalise the roster. Thus making the 20 days on an extremely productive period. It would have to be equal time to even consider now I.e 2/2, 4/4 etc

Money wise, an EK CA turns >60K AED month, so to give up DXB for RUH it is going to have to be triple digits IMHO.

Extremely disappointing to say the least.

[Giuff]

I was thinking the same, even 20/10 would be unattainable living in RUH for that amount of time. Furthermore, the Saudi’s operate under a version of FAA regulations, whereby you only need 24 hours free of duty in any 7 day period. The result could be consecutive duties with only a period eg. 2am-2am free of duty to legalise the roster. Thus making the 20 days on an extremely productive period. It would have to be equal time to even consider now I.e 2/2, 4/4 etc

Money wise, an EK CA turns >60K AED month, so to give up DXB for RUH it is going to have to be triple digits IMHO.

Extremely disappointing to say the least.

Totally agree.
They really started in the worst possible way.
Lets see what they put on the table.

[kungfu panda]

First Officer applicants need to go in with their eyes wide open.
The last I heard, which was 2019, the Saudi government had 6,000 Saudi Pilot cadets in the United States training. They do a 4 year degree in aviation and then an ATP before returning to F/O positions. These guys will feed into all Saudi Airlines and particularly Saudia and Riyadh Air. Saudi's will absolutely have priority over all upgrades.

Consider that despite promises of upgrades made at Saudia, no expat FO has been upgraded since maybe the 1990's.

When the COVID pandemic hit, the only compulsory terminations were the expat FO's.
You may get lucky. But no complaints that you weren't warned if you become a career FO at Riyadh Air.

[Raph737]

You guys are seriously keen to join? The COO has been comfirm, Peter Belew….ex Ryanair. Social dumping Arab style with that CEO and COO, great con men. Grabbing some popcorn and watching from afar this fall apart before it even starts as they treat pilots like scum(ad they do at Ryanair and Etihad) and fail to run an operation.

[Hitchiker]

[QUOTE]Consider that despite promises of upgrades made at Saudia, no expat FO has been upgraded since maybe the 1990's.
Spot on!And i bet that there will be also a training bond to sign no matter if you are type rated or not,try to leave earlier and
they will keep you stuck there since your working visa belongs to your employer and it can be frozen no matter if it is multi entry/exit.
I was thinking the same, even 20/10 would be unattainable living in RUH for that amount of time.​​​​​​​
Unless you desperately need a job,then no objections and good luck .
I have worked there for 6 years ,fairly enjoyed it and that is my 2 cents:
1)if you are expecting to find an environment like Oman,UAE or Qatar forget about it.Hold your breath,head down,fly,eat,sleep pay your bills and repeat:)​​​​​​​
2)Your employer can terminate your contract for any reason as soon as they will stop liking you or you do something wrong according to them,your contract at that point will be worth nothing,try to complain and get stuck there.
3)Jeddah is way better than RUH,drinking is expensive
5)Their respect toward you will last until they will need you.
Lets see what they put on the table​​​​​​​
it has to be clear that these people will not throw money out of the window to pay a pilot way above the ME3,if you believe so you are wrong by all means,didn't covid teach you anything?

[TBL Warrior]

:D sure!
8 days off a month ,minimum uh,to be spent in RUH
i can still remember those rumors “they will pay 25,000 usd” “no 30,000 usd”
:O for a non commuting contract they will need to pay 40,000 usd!
Do you still trust these people?Whatever is written on the contract is as valuable as a piece of toilet paper down there… how much is your freedom worth?
Enjoy!

Without a substantial remuneration package, they simply will not attract Boeing & Airbus experienced crew to give up their DXB, DOH or HKG lifestyle for that of RUH.


Living full time in Riyadh offers no comparison to that of DXB, AUH or DOH even. So yes, it’s going to have to be a significant remuneration package.

When CA’s were leaving ME carriers for China it was to get more time off and more money. Riyadh offers neither (at present).

[Mute hyena]

The latest rumour around is a 60k usd signing bonus ,and the salaries being 50% higher than what the ME3 offer .

[Emma Royds]

The initial response is right on the mark as to what I was expecting. Why offer a better lifestyle than we can get away with appears to be the business mindset. No doubt things will change unless they can get enough volunteers to sign up to a full time RUH contract.

[flyTheBigFatLady]

The latest rumour around is a 60k usd signing bonus ,and the salaries being 50% higher than what the ME3 offer .
unfortunately rumors

nothing written in the job offer and no details on the website.

[kungfu panda]

The latest rumour around is a 60k usd signing bonus ,and the salaries being 50% higher than what the ME3 offer .

It sounds on the mark to me. With Emirates advertising about 43k SAR, I would expect Riyadh Air to be around 65k-70k. A sign on bonus for type rated guys, not unlikely in order to legally entail a bond in Saudi Arabia.

[kipper the dog]

It sounds on the mark to me. With Emirates advertising about 43k SAR, I would expect Riyadh Air to be around 65k-70k. A sign on bonus for type rated guys, not unlikely in order to legally entail a bond in Saudi Arabia.


55,000 SAR basic apparently. Housing allowance is 25,000SAR a month or company provided accommodation. 250 SAR per hour flight pay.

[rudestuff]

55,000 SAR basic apparently. Housing allowance is 25,000SAR a month or company provided accommodation. 250 SAR per hour flight pay.
Is that published somewhere?

[kungfu panda]

55,000 SAR basic apparently. Housing allowance is 25,000SAR a month or company provided accommodation. 250 SAR per hour flight pay.

If that's true, that'll be the best deal in Saudi Arabia, including Saudi Royal.

Typical compound accommodation in Riyadh costs 9000 sar per month. That's good accommodation.

[SWBKCB]

Not sure if this has been coveredMarch 14 (Reuters) - Two Saudi Arabian airlines announced plans on Tuesday to order a combined 78 Boeing 787 Dreamliners, a big win for Boeing (BA.N) (https://www.reuters.com/companies/BA.N) that marks the fifth largest commercial order by value in its history. State-owned Saudi Arabian Airlines (Saudia) and new national airline Riyadh Air will each buy 39 widebody 787s from the U.S.-based planemaker. The deal contains options for 10 additional Dreamliners for Saudia and 33 for Riyadh Air.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeing-nabs-order-78-787-dreamliners-two-saudi-airlines-2023-03-14/

[kungfu panda]

Not sure if this has been covered
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeing-nabs-order-78-787-dreamliners-two-saudi-airlines-2023-03-14/

Yes. There are a lot of Planes coming to the middle east in the next 5 years. Looks like the industry will increase in size by at least 50%.

[SOPS]

Can someone please explain to me, ( I must be a bit thick). Why start a whole new airline, why not just upgrade Saudia?

[rudestuff]

Am I the only one who thinks the name itself will put people off?

[kungfu panda]

Can someone please explain to me, ( I must be a bit thick). Why start a whole new airline, why not just upgrade Saudia?

The answer is that they tried to start a Riyadh base with Saudia. It didn't work. The company has been based in Jeddah for 75 years and the vast majority of Pilots maintenance etc have there lives in Jeddah. Those staff could not be persuaded to move to Riyadh. Probably 90% of staff. The expats were forced to Riyadh but they represent only a small percentage of employees and getting smaller all of the time.
Riyadh is a city of 6 million relatively wealthy people who want to travel. A large longhaul Airline based in Riyadh is long overdue.

[FlightDetent]

Am I the only one who thinks the name itself will put people off?Maybe ....; well established in some places
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/235x261/box_9270b2e0672f84224bfedf00a80e389ff4d5c2d4.png

impossible to unsee eversince this thread's been open.

[virga 208]

that was a test. I am sure. They'll get zero applications. Then they will start the real game.
20/10 with a competitive package.
No one from the US for sure. Maybe some from the ME3 and Europe. But they gotta move fast.

Don't forget to count in Canadians coz their pay SUCKS.

[SOPS]

The answer is that they tried to start a Riyadh base with Saudia. It didn't work. The company has been based in Jeddah for 75 years and the vast majority of Pilots maintenance etc have there lives in Jeddah. Those staff could not be persuaded to move to Riyadh. Probably 90% of staff. The expats were forced to Riyadh but they represent only a small percentage of employees and getting smaller all of the time.
Riyadh is a city of 6 million relatively wealthy people who want to travel. A large longhaul Airline based in Riyadh is long overdue.

Thank you. 😃😃😃

[burnable gomi]

55,000 SAR basic apparently. Housing allowance is 25,000SAR a month or company provided accommodation. 250 SAR per hour flight pay.

If that's true that's about USD26K for 70 hours. Reasonable pay if it were commutable, not for living in Saudi. Would really need to be a 50/50 roster for me to seriously consider.

[kungfu panda]

If that's true that's about USD26K for 70 hours. Reasonable pay if it were commutable, not for living in Saudi. Would really need to be a 50/50 roster for me to seriously consider.

50/50 Roster. Don't make me laugh.
They've got Bellew, ex Ryanair, as COO.

[midnight cruiser]

I hear you. 5/4 roster then (weeks rather than days preferably). And paid an obscene amount of money, and I think it could work. :)

[mutt]

Localisation limits for first officers came into effect 2 days ago, 60% must be saudi and will increase until it reaches 100%.

As for the package, housing is generally ex basic salary so 300k is rather excessive and not required by the market.

[JG1]

To make it worthwhile for experienced wide body crew to leave their current jobs (even in the ME), this airline is going to have to pay a minimum of 15-20% more than Qatar or Emirates, and/or have a commuting contract. Why would one go through all the expense of packing up, selling, breaking leases, and above all, taking a chance on a startup if it wasn't significantly better?

They've already blotted their copybook with ham-fisted adverts, all about what they require from you and nothing about what they offer, all secrets and rumours, confirming they'll be a copy paste of the other two.
Yesterday I spoke to a Saudia engineer, he said first flight won't be for at least a year, anyways.

[TBL Warrior]

To make it worthwhile for experienced wide body crew to leave their current jobs (even in the ME), this airline is going to have to pay a minimum of 15-20% more than Qatar or Emirates, and/or have a commuting contract. Why would one go through all the expense of packing up, selling, breaking leases, and above all, taking a chance on a startup if it wasn't significantly better?

They've already blotted their copybook with ham-fisted adverts, all about what they require from you and nothing about what they offer, all secrets and rumours, confirming they'll be a copy paste of the other two.
Yesterday I spoke to a Saudia engineer, he said first flight won't be for at least a year, anyways.

Herein lies the case in point; it is not only the Pilots they need to attract but selling RUH to their spouse / dependants is going to be next to impossible, especially to those lifestyles available in DXB, AUH, or even DOH.

This is evident with the mass exodus of CX CA’s taking FO positions with EK over that of DEC with QR. Most chose lifestyle.

Now imagine trying to sell the same guys (this is their target audience IMHO A330/A350 typed and experienced crew) 8 days off in the hub of RUH. Impossible.

With no commuting contracts on offer, or not disclosing any information related to remuneration (other than the mere speculation that’s circulating) it does leave one to wonder how they intend to “compete”…

[SOPS]

I keep saying this..I’m getting boring, there is more to life than $$$ and flying aeroplanes. I’m so glad I’m out of it. Why anyone would go to Saudi Arabia for any money is beyond me.

There is a life beyond being a pilot. Try it, it’s fun.

[burnable gomi]

To make it worthwhile for experienced wide body crew to leave their current jobs (even in the ME), this airline is going to have to pay a minimum of 15-20% more than Qatar or Emirates, and/or have a commuting contract. Why would one go through all the expense of packing up, selling, breaking leases, and above all, taking a chance on a startup if it wasn't significantly better?

They've already blotted their copybook with ham-fisted adverts, all about what they require from you and nothing about what they offer, all secrets and rumours, confirming they'll be a copy paste of the other two.
Yesterday I spoke to a Saudia engineer, he said first flight won't be for at least a year, anyways.

You would seriously move to RUH for just 15-20% more? They'd need to pay me 20% more than I currently get and offer a commuting contract to make it even remotely attractive. I doubt there is a number high enough to convince my family to move to RUH.

[MataMoros]

I keep saying this..I’m getting boring, there is more to life than $$$ and flying aeroplanes. I’m so glad I’m out of it. Why anyone would go to Saudi Arabia for any money is beyond me.

There is a life beyond being a pilot. Try it, it’s fun.

Ditto here.
I cannot see many people taking this new RIA bait unless they are desperate for whatever reason, as there are plenty of options out there.

Anyone who has the ME experience knows what to expect.

[mutt]

I keep saying this..I’m getting boring, there is more to life than $$$ and flying aeroplanes. I’m so glad I’m out of it. Why anyone would go to Saudi Arabia for any money is beyond me.

Have you ever lived in Saudi? They have had some amazing changes over the last 7 years.

[kungfu panda]

Have you ever lived in Saudi? They have had some amazing changes over the last 7 years.

Mutt. I know that you've lived in Saudi forever. But it's not a great life for families despite the changes. Education is very expensive, even after any subsidy.

[Hitchiker]

I keep saying this..I’m getting boring, there is more to life than $$$ and flying aeroplanes. I’m so glad I’m out of it. Why anyone would go to Saudi Arabia for any money is beyond me.
golden years in ME is over since long time,nowadays food,education and so on is very expensive and RUH is very expensive too.I used to pay around 70-80 usd for meat ,vegetables,bread,fruit and some jam
at carrefour ryiadh,nothing fancy.
The amount of savings for a family in the sandpit would be pretty much the same as in Europe if not lower,choosing to move or not would be pretty obvious then
but if you are young,single or married with no kids or just one then ME3 would be still good,ryiadh would be still pretty challenging but that's my 2 cents.
Surely they have changed over the years and is great but not as much as they are trying to advertise.Just read the newspapers...
safe flights

[Klimax]

Have you ever lived in Saudi? They have had some amazing changes over the last 7 years.

I spend on and off around 4 weeks a row in KSA, and that´s in Jeddah (not bloody Riyadh), and as much as there are some very positive changes to lifestyle with the increasing higher standards of restaurants and accommodation choices, it remains an opaque totalitarian regime without any human face or touch to it. It will not take long for most average humans (including pilots ;-) ) to feel like a slave, just like the other "immigrants" that the country enslaves. Most normal minds will loong home or at least away from this sandy ****hole within the first 12 months of duty. Money, and if rotational contract, will only last for "that" long. I´ve been coming and going (minus 2+ covid years) here for half a decade, so perhaps not even that long, but I can truly say this is not an enjoyable place to be - and I am NOT even considering if I had to move my family to this place - there is NO way in hell I would EVER consider that! It´s really hard to find something positive to say about being in the KSA (other than the fact that of course there´s many nice Saudi nationals and people as well) and you need to realize that you´re basically selling you soul to the devil and your time spend within the Kingdom is simply a "write off" - a time in your life that you´ve lost (and will never get back!). The other positive I can say is that, in my view, any experience in life is just that - an experience - and having experienced "living" in the KSA and seen what it´s like is of course something you can bring back with you and share with your friends and family.
But to stay here (in The KSA) permanently or on something like 2:1 (20/10) rotation - I´d rather fly for Ryanair or Wizzair (and I truly wouldn´t want to touch that!) - it´s THAT bad, and I beg anyone with the slightest consideration of coming here to take a fresh realistic view on what this place really is! It is NOT the UAE - it is NOT Dubai or even Doha - by a far stretch not!
Consider yourself warned.

[Klimax]

golden years in ME is over since long time,nowadays food,education and so on is very expensive and RUH is very expensive too.I used to pay around 70-80 usd for meat ,vegetables,bread,fruit and some jam
at carrefour ryiadh,nothing fancy.
The amount of savings for a family in the sandpit would be pretty much the same as in Europe if not lower,choosing to move or not would be pretty obvious then
but if you are young,single or married with no kids or just one then ME3 would be still good,ryiadh would be still pretty challenging but that's my 2 cents.
Surely they have changed over the years and is great but not as much as they are trying to advertise.Just read the newspapers...
safe flights

You´ve been here - you´ve spoken - and your words are those of experience and wisdom. Let´s hope anybody dreaming up a dream - listens to you. You´re right!

[Klimax]

Have you ever lived in Saudi? They have had some amazing changes over the last 7 years.

I´m here right now (in KSA). For most "foreigners" (slaves if you like!) that would like to consider themselves "expats", the changes that you´re referring to (and I´ve noticed them as well) are still lightyears away from what by western standards are considered anything normal. If you times 0 by 100 - you still only get 0. But, yes, things are getting "better" here - that is true (but that´s about it!).

[Klimax]

Localisation limits for first officers came into effect 2 days ago, 60% must be saudi and will increase until it reaches 100%.

As for the package, housing is generally ex basic salary so 300k is rather excessive and not required by the market.

Yes, the date is coming up in a few days, and immigration will soon turn even more interesting - in contradiction to the upcoming flying. I´m getting to old and comfortable, and I still like flying, to have to adjust myself on the flight deck and be accommodating. Time to leave.

[mutt]

Mutt. I know that you've lived in Saudi forever. But it's not a great life for families despite the changes. Education is very expensive, even after any subsidy.

And don’t forget the new residence fee for family, I don’t know if RIA will be considered government or not, if not, then it’s something like 9,600 SAR per kid per year.

[Nick 1]

Having been there for six years , in my opinion they will find very difficult to attract pilots if the contract remain something like 20:10 with no possibility to commute , as someone already said don’ t think you are going to Dubai or even Doha , spending an entire year on Riyadh waiting for the holiday off days, could be a very hard way of living in this region .
They should think to implement some commuting or reverse roster , but you know what ? They will not , is the long living ,take it or leave it .

[sluggums]

Just got rejected. Clearly 10,000+ Airbus hours and a TRE doesn’t count for much. 😂

[kungfu panda]

Just got rejected. Clearly 10,000+ Airbus hours and a TRE doesn’t count for much. 😂

Sorry to ask but is your Airbus time inclusive of widebody, longhaul?
If not maybe you should apply at a slightly later date.

[Klimax]

Just got rejected. Clearly 10,000+ Airbus hours and a TRE doesn’t count for much. 😂

Believe me - they probably just did you a favor and possibly saved you, your life!

[FlightDetent]

Just got rejected. Clearly 10,000+ Airbus hours and a TRE doesn’t count for much. 😂Did they find it a red flag for someone that qualified to apply?

[Mango]

NEOM airlines is also starting at the end of 2024 according to news articles.

[burnable gomi]

Just got rejected. Clearly 10,000+ Airbus hours and a TRE doesn’t count for much. 😂

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-saudi-arabian-carrier-riyadh-air-to-launch-with-all-boeing-fleet-of-up-to-72-787-9-dreamliners-301771521.html

Sounds like they're going all 787 initially so probably want the Boeing guys first.

[freshwings2013]

Does any one know what the Assesement process is ?

Tests / stages of the assessment

[kungfu panda]

Does any one know what the Assesement process is ?

Tests / stages of the assessment

I don't think that anyone has been through it yet but it's being done by a consultancy, I believe, so maybe research that company for how they do it.

[candidate49]

Got rejected, too.

ME flag carrier A330 wide body first officer with 3000 hours (2000 on widebody).

I guess they will go all Boeing for the time being.

Still weird because they sound and look so confident for a startup.

[Leander320]

A friend with B777 rating 5000 + hours FO currently flying in a legacy got rejected too .

Don’t know what their plan is…

[newscaster]

Ten judges sentenced for being to lenient with activists, that should help.

[Hitchiker]

Have you ever lived in Saudi? They have had some amazing changes over the last 7 years.…​​​​​​​Ten judges sentenced for being to lenient with activists.
Indeed!
Come on everybody!let’s pack and go immediately.
I can see already thousands of people coming from everywhere in the world queuing at the immigration waiting to start living the dream 7 years from now.Expat families,crowded beaches people wearing shorts while enjoying beers in the sun,women kitesurfing and wearing bikinis…pork
and liquor stores ,clubs ,brunches by the beach,ladies nights ,Schools celebrating the international day and so on,you will regret not to have applied before.

[kungfu panda]

Ten judges sentenced for being to lenient with activists, that should help.

I take an entirely different view. The middle East is a very volatile region and Saudi Arabia under the Monarchy has pretty well remained stable and maintained a relatively peaceful status quo despite Iran trying to surround them on 3 sides. They keep a pragmatic, peaceful relationship with Israel. Domestically, the vast majority of Saudi's are very happy with the system and live comfortably as part of a well educated middle class. Rapid, positive changes have been made with regard to Women's rights, so much so that young Saudi men complain that they can no longer get jobs easily as 75% of new jobs go to women.

Rocking the boat from the outside is a bad idea. It would take so little to push ISIS into power and we'd have large numbers of people executed.

In my opinion, Saudi Arabia has a very reasonable system given the region. It could certainly be a heck of a lot worse.

[Dingleberry Handpump]

I take an entirely different view. The middle East is a very volatile region and Saudi Arabia under the Monarchy has pretty well remained stable and maintained a relatively peaceful status quo despite Iran trying to surround them on 3 sides. They keep a pragmatic, peaceful relationship with Israel. Domestically, the vast majority of Saudi's are very happy with the system and live comfortably as part of a well educated middle class. Rapid, positive changes have been made with regard to Women's rights, so much so that young Saudi men complain that they can no longer get jobs easily as 75% of new jobs go to women.

Rocking the boat from the outside is a bad idea. It would take so little to push ISIS into power and we'd have large numbers of people executed.

In my opinion, Saudi Arabia has a very reasonable system given the region. It could certainly be a heck of a lot worse.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but we’re talking about folks packing up their lives to live there as an expat.

It’s a tall ask, and it seems like there’s a few components of the package missing to be attractive to most.

[SOPS]

Having worked for EK for 8;years… ( the last 6 I regret)…. I would never consider going to Saudi Arabia. Perhaps for $ 100000 a month and then a month off, and based in New York.

[virga 208]

I´m here right now (in KSA). For most "foreigners" (slaves if you like!) that would like to consider themselves "expats", the changes that you´re referring to (and I´ve noticed them as well) are still lightyears away from what by western standards are considered anything normal. If you times 0 by 100 - you still only get 0. But, yes, things are getting "better" here - that is true (but that´s about it!).

Did you have a look at the Canadian WAWCON's recently??? if not then have a look and you'll see a 3D motion picture of pilots being ENSLAVED in your WESTERN standards thing. Fellow pilots making 41000 $ CAD per year that translates into
2400 $ per months flying B737, CRJ and DHC-8 in and out of snow storms half the year, any junior Mc Donalds employee or delivering with Uber Eats makes way more.
You guys are just some over spoiled kids making the living of your lifetime and spitting in the soup.
Now you know what you can do with your western standards of yours.

[Krugt]

Anyone here heard any rumors or basicly anything about when they will start hiring pilots ?

[CF10]

Just got rejected. Clearly 10,000+ Airbus hours and a TRE doesn’t count for much. 😂

sluggums , candidate49 and Leander320,
Is it because less than 150 hours in the last 12months?
I know a friend who fulfilled all the requirements except the 12months currency and was rejected too.

[WhatShortage]

Did you have a look at the Canadian WAWCON's recently??? if not then have a look and you'll see a 3D motion picture of pilots being ENSLAVED in your WESTERN standards thing. Fellow pilots making 41000 $ CAD per year that translates into
2400 $ per months flying B737, CRJ and DHC-8 in and out of snow storms half the year, any junior Mc Donalds employee or delivering with Uber Eats makes way more.
You guys are just some over spoiled kids making the living of your lifetime and spitting in the soup.
Now you know what you can do with your western standards of yours.
Yep, and in Cuba dentists get like 40 dollars a month and In USA they are rich, also, in África a lot of people lives with less than 1$ a day. nice off topic laughter mate, next: how much are they willing to pay and commuting opportunities.

[candidate49]

sluggums , candidate49 and Leander320,
Is it because less than 150 hours in the last 12months?
I know a friend who fulfilled all the requirements except the 12months currency and was rejected too.

Nope, I am actively flying. 740 hours in the last 12 months.

Maybe they just posted the job ad to see how many guys are out in the job market desperate enough to apply…

Then maybe they will post the real job ad and start hiring…

[Krugt]

Maybe it's better to check your application status again I just received an email saying that inadvertent rejections were made

[casablanca]

Received an email today saying that there had been a technical issue that caused rejection of application but it was resolved and application reinstated.

[CF10]

Received an email today saying that there had been a technical issue that caused rejection of application but it was resolved and application reinstated.

I guess after all, those that were declined are now back in the game 😁👍

[778Skywalker]

Yes I got the same email today. I am curious as to what they have to offer. For me it seems a commute package is inevitable for western pilots, we shall see.....

[kungfu panda]

Yes I got the same email today. I am curious as to what they have to offer. For me it seems a commute package is inevitable for western pilots, we shall see.....

I think that in the end you'll be right. It'll be a 20/10 though. I'd be very surprised if a better deal than that was offered. That was the old Saudia deal.

Saudia managed to get an abundant supply of Pilots before they stopped recruiting expats in 2016.

[778Skywalker]

20/10 is quite fair considering Korean offers 19/11 and quite far away from Europe, But it should be confirmed Business so You arrive rested. I wonder about pay though but I would imagine in the region of 15000 USD/month is realistic.

[Krugt]

In the email they sent it is written that there will be briefing sessions which will be held in the upcoming weeks. So we will probably know some details after

[778Skywalker]

Reading latest news it says ops will start early 2025..... So they might start selections in a year or more from now, my two cents worth.

[TBL Warrior]

Reading latest news it says ops will start early 2025..... So they might start selections in a year or more from now, my two cents worth.

The Saudi GACA ATPL conversion is a 6 month process.

From there add induction, Visa and other company specific joining formalities, which is another 3 months (plus GACA ATPL) = 9 months.

I would then add another 3 months for an inshala factor, and call it a round 12 months.

Depending on the 25’ start date, work backwards by the above amount for induction plus interview and hold pool time.

Thus, it could be sooner than you think.

[rudestuff]

The Saudi GACA ATPL conversion is a 6 month process.
What is the process? EASA style exams again?

[mutt]

The Saudi GACA ATPL conversion is a 6 month process.

From there add induction, Visa and other company specific joining formalities, which is another 3 months (plus GACA ATPL) = 9 months.

I would then add another 3 months for an inshala factor, and call it a round 12 months.

Depending on the 25’ start date, work backwards by the above amount for induction plus interview and hold pool time.

Thus, it could be sooner than you think.

Or, they will just fill the initial requirements with saudia pilots.

[kungfu panda]

Or, they will just fill the initial requirements with saudia pilots.

I don't think that'll happen Mutt. To be honest. Saudia are pretty short themselves. They have 70+ Airbuses being delivered and now 38+ 787's. And a training center which is not fit for purpose.

25 new routes announced last week.

The only thing that I expect Saudia will do is help with some initial line training/IOE, whatever you want to call it.

[candidate49]

I dont think they make pilots to take DGCA exams, not necessarily. I believe they will just change the regulations to allow anyone to convert the ATPL licenses.

[kungfu panda]

I dont think they make pilots to take DGCA exams, not necessarily. I believe they will just change the regulations to allow anyone to convert the ATPL licenses.

It's GACA and you're right. You no longer need to write the GACA ATP exam if you already have an ICAO ATP.

[k.swiss]

The Saudi GACA ATPL conversion is a 6 month process.

From there add induction, Visa and other company specific joining formalities, which is another 3 months (plus GACA ATPL) = 9 months.

I would then add another 3 months for an inshala factor, and call it a round 12 months.

Depending on the 25’ start date, work backwards by the above amount for induction plus interview and hold pool time.

Thus, it could be sooner than you think.

Where did you get this from? Takes 3 months max, airline training safety, survival included. This was in Flynas.

[kungfu panda]

Where did you get this from? Takes 3 months max, airline training safety, survival included. This was in Flynas.

He bases it on initial Saudia training. 9 months was an average. 5 months was the absolute fastest.

And Saudia had their own training center and aircraft. Riyadh Air will be looking to facilitate other Airlines equipment. 1 year doesn't sound unreasonable to me.

[candidate49]

What do you think about FO upgrades in the near future ?

Do they upgrade expat FOs at Saudi companies ?

[kungfu panda]

What do you think about FO upgrades in the near future ?

Do they upgrade expat FOs at Saudi companies ?

I wouldn't go if I was an F/O. Saudi's will have priority for all promotions, upgrade, training or management. Saudia have only ever upgraded an extremely small number of expat F/O's.

[Proline21]

I take an entirely different view. The middle East is a very volatile region and Saudi Arabia under the Monarchy has pretty well remained stable and maintained a relatively peaceful status quo despite Iran trying to surround them on 3 sides. They keep a pragmatic, peaceful relationship with Israel. Domestically, the vast majority of Saudi's are very happy with the system and live comfortably as part of a well educated middle class. Rapid, positive changes have been made with regard to Women's rights, so much so that young Saudi men complain that they can no longer get jobs easily as 75% of new jobs go to women.

Rocking the boat from the outside is a bad idea. It would take so little to push ISIS into power and we'd have large numbers of people executed.

In my opinion, Saudi Arabia has a very reasonable system given the region. It could certainly be a heck of a lot worse.

As long as they cut off heads and bodyparts, cane people and stone people in public (beheadings can be seen in downtown Riyadh on fridays - something to do to enhance the work/live balance on your 8 days off...) I don't see anything "reasonable" in the system. Don't get confused by shiny new buildings, mega projects and festivals - Saudi Arabia is a very deeply conservative society and I would not consider it a place that many expact pilots with given experience should move to - unless they are really desperate to find a new job.

[mutt]

I don't think that'll happen Mutt. To be honest. Saudia are pretty short themselves. They have 70+ Airbuses being delivered and now 38+ 787's. And a training center which is not fit for purpose.

25 new routes announced last week.

The only thing that I expect Saudia will do is help with some initial line training/IOE, whatever you want to call it.

I don’t expect saudia to help, but lots of disgruntled guys ready to take 1/2 pension and a second salary.

[kungfu panda]

I don’t expect saudia to help, but lots of disgruntled guys ready to take 1/2 pension and a second salary.

True..

[newscaster]

I take an entirely different view. The middle East is a very volatile region and Saudi Arabia under the Monarchy has pretty well remained stable and maintained a relatively peaceful status quo despite Iran trying to surround them on 3 sides. They keep a pragmatic, peaceful relationship with Israel. Domestically, the vast majority of Saudi's are very happy with the system and live comfortably as part of a well educated middle class. Rapid, positive changes have been made with regard to Women's rights, so much so that young Saudi men complain that they can no longer get jobs easily as 75% of new jobs go to women.

Rocking the boat from the outside is a bad idea. It would take so little to push ISIS into power and we'd have large numbers of people executed.

In my opinion, Saudi Arabia has a very reasonable system given the region. It could certainly be a heck of a lot worse.

Ok so as long its good in some ways tings like these can be ignored.

[kungfu panda]

Ok so as long its good in some ways tings like these can be ignored.

Wow. I think that there is a lot of naivity in these discussions. The middle East is not a human rights heaven. Maybe go to New Zealand if you want that.

2015- Israel killed 500 Children with fighter jets
2003-2009 British and US forces killed 268,000+
ISIS Syria- killed 5000 civilians
Iran- 100,000+ locked up or executed for wanting human rights

In Saudi Arabia the executed have been supporters of the Iran regime or drug smugglers. And compared to elsewhere the numbers are small.

Saudi Arabia has been surrounded by an enemy on 3 sides. Now there's a deal with Iran, ok.

[virga 208]

Wow. I think that there is a lot of naivity in these discussions. The middle East is not a human rights heaven. Maybe go to New Zealand if you want that.

2015- Israel killed 500 Children with fighter jets
2003-2009 British and US forces killed 268,000+
ISIS Syria- killed 5000 civilians
Iran- 100,000+ locked up or executed for wanting human rights

In Saudi Arabia the executed have been supporters of the Iran regime or drug smugglers. And compared to elsewhere the numbers are small.

Saudi Arabia has been surrounded by an enemy on 3 sides. Now there's a deal with Iran, ok.
I'm quoting ABC news ``The number one cause of death in CHILDREN in the US is gun violence``

[newscaster]

RIA name could be used as "Ria" for a future LCC should they have any plan for such.

[devil595499]

Is ria airlines completely not buying any airbus now?

[Ledi43]

Seems to be 787 only initially. Many details will be made public by mid July

[casablanca]

Is ria airlines completely not buying any airbus now?
currently recruiting for 787 and airbus… so likely plan on ordering 350

[White Sausage]

Any ideas by now about t&c’s?

[virga 208]

Until July 10th, everything will be pure speculation.

[Ledi43]

I recommend applying so that you can take part of the presentation in July

[Klimax]

As long as they cut off heads and bodyparts, cane people and stone people in public (beheadings can be seen in downtown Riyadh on fridays - something to do to enhance the work/live balance on your 8 days off...) I don't see anything "reasonable" in the system. Don't get confused by shiny new buildings, mega projects and festivals - Saudi Arabia is a very deeply conservative society and I would not consider it a place that many expact pilots with given experience should move to - unless they are really desperate to find a new job.

Yeah.. It´s pretty f@cking far from Paradise isn´t it.. It´s hard to actually phantom the reality of it all, if you´re dreaming it all up, to be that utopia job. FFS look at those adverts out there on the job adverts - it screams at you " you are OUR slaves ".

[virga 208]

Yeah.. It´s pretty f@cking far from Paradise isn´t it.. It´s hard to actually phantom the reality of it all, if you´re dreaming it all up, to be that utopia job. FFS look at those adverts out there on the job adverts - it screams at you " you are OUR slaves ".

The more people thinking like you guys the better...keep watching the media...you're doing great :D

[Kennytheking]

The more people thinking like you guys the better...keep watching the media...you're doing great :D

That is a a strange way to sell a product.:cool:

Like it or not, that is a common perception. KSA and it's supporters can complain as much as they like about the negative stereotypes, but this airline is not going to make a go of it with only "informed" customers....

[TBL Warrior]

In other news;

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/boeing-looks-sell-least-150-737-max-jets-riyadh-air-bloomberg-news-2023-05-28/

[Klimax]

The more people thinking like you guys the better...keep watching the media...you're doing great :D
Keep watching the media. Don´t have to - I go there frequently dude. So, yeah, it´s inconvenient when somebody actually knows what it´s like - and it doesn´t feed your mold. Never the less. Enjoy it!

[virga 208]

Keep watching the media. Don´t have to - I go there frequently dude. So, yeah, it´s inconvenient when somebody actually knows what it´s like - and it doesn´t feed your mold. Never the less. Enjoy it!

One thing for sure, no one is forcing you to be there...one day you will stop spitting in the soup :)

[newscaster]

How come no pics of the livery here, Purple painted aircraft how is that going to fare in the regions hot climate and harsh harsh sun

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FxyMnzXWwAYS8cB?format=jpg&name=large

[virga 208]

If the number 1 ride is ready it could mean that things will go faster than expected...a presentation tour maybe ??

[virga 208]

June 12th over OERK (RUH)...The Tour begins :D

[gearupflapsupshutup]

when are they anouncing the T&C's?

[HeadUpTheTailpipe]

Any news on the July 10th information session?

It's all gone a bit quiet...

[HeadUpTheTailpipe]

Seems like cards are being held close to people's chests then!

[Alalf001]

Today I received a mail with a YouTube link to replace the live on next 11 of July.
The COO said just few information about company and they need 700 B787/777 pilots .
any more info from my fellow colleagues

cheers

[Jimmy Neutron]

Yep, same here.

[SOPS]

They need 700 hundred 78/77 pilots? Where do they think they are coming from?

[Red_giant]

When would they announce their requirements for narrow body crew? I applied under future opportunities as I only have narrow body time.

[Alalf001]

They need 700 hundred 78/77 pilots? Where do they think they are coming from?

i really do not have clue .
it is just what the COO said .
I am curious too , that’s why I text here

[Carbo]

They need 700 hundred 78/77 pilots? Where do they think they are coming from?
He will easily get them with only one magic word: « commuting »

[CACTUS 25]

He will easily get them with only one magic word: « commuting »

That would surely be a magical word.

[flap1]

He will easily get them with only one magic word: « commuting »
com,
Haha 😄 🤣 😂

[virga 208]

He will easily get them with only one magic word: « commuting »
1.5 minutes video is a bit surprising, it feels like there's been a last minute change, his tie was not even centered.
What could happen to leave them off guard like that :confused: did someone throw the towel?? did they not agree on the perks ??
Commuting in my opinion is unlikely as they received 10K applications.

To be continued...

[Qbix]

1.5 minutes video is a bit surprising, it feels like there's been a last minute change, his tie was not even centered.
What could happen to leave them off guard like that :confused: did someone throw the towel?? did they not agree on the perks ??
Commuting in my opinion is unlikely as they received 10K applications.

To be continued...

Airlines like to throw those numbers thinking they have leverage. In fact they have not much and they should be well aware of that.
Out of those 10k applications I can bet 95% are just dreamers.
Can give you my statistics from 5 different assessment groups for QR. Each 20-25 guys showing up and one guy in every second group was 787/777TRed captain...
More might apply as there is plenty in the ME alone but only to find out the T&Cs.
RIA would need to offer at least 25k-30k usd for a local contract to even think about getting anyone already settled in the desert with their family by the sea line.
Commuting contract would attract as many as they need.

[Alalf001]

Airlines like to throw those numbers thinking they have leverage. In fact they have not much and they should be well aware of that.
Out of those 10k applications I can bet 95% are just dreamers.
Can give you my statistics from 5 different assessment groups for QR. Each 20-25 guys showing up and one guy in every second group was 787/777TRed captain...
More might apply as there is plenty in the ME alone but only to find out the T&Cs.
RIA would need to offer at least 25k-30k usd for a local contract to even think about getting anyone already settled in the desert with their family by the sea line.
Commuting contract would attract as many as they need.

I agree with you but I suppose “ commuting “ is not an option for them.
my 2 cents

[Airmann]

There's a reason why commuting has never been a part of the package in most of the airlines in the middle east. It keeps more money in the country as the families spend the dough internally.

[mark_one]

SOPS Well, they can fill all the seats with ex-EK drivers, all B777 guys made redundant in the first 2 rounds out of 4,, total 700+ guys never returned for duty not a single recalled! problem solved.:bored:

[allaru]

SOPS Well, they can fill all the seats with ex-EK drivers, all B777 guys made redundant in the first 2 rounds out of 4,, total 700+ guys never returned for duty not a single recalled! problem solved.:bored:Re redundant guys I doubt there are 700 and even if there were the new DFO is ex EK so he will be fully aware of every ex EK applicants history.

If they hope to attract EK pilots they will need to offer 30k US minimum plus benefits plus commuting. They will get away with less if they want to target Ethiopian or Kenyan (nearby 787 operators) and they may get a few desperados from QR and CX. They will get very few 777/787 pilots from the west for any amount of money.

Most likely they will reluctantly offer a Riyadh base with a commutable roster ie 10-14 block days off each rotation. And yes they will want to establish an expat community and vibe and have money spent in Saudi in an attempt to emulate Dubai’s successful strategy.

Re 10000 applicants blah blah blah typical HR bluster and BS.

Re recent Willy Walsh interview (rise Sir Willy move over Sir Tim) China is running at 50perc of pre covid levels. If they kick off then that’s a huge number of pilots for China and the surrounding regions placing huge pressure on RIA. People always underestimate the size of the Chinese market and the size of their ambitions and they will eventually work through their economic issues.

General pilot shortages are still apparent all over and the airlines as usual are hoping for the next disaster (ie recession) before they admit defeat and return salaries and conditions to where they should be at (the US is already there).

Re the presentation, yes rushed and the presentation date on the email didn’t even match the day of the week. The presentation was half assed and cut short not mentioning pay and conditions as well as other things as per the email. My guess is a bun fight is going on between the lowballers and quality camps within RIA.

Re 700 pilots …rubbish …72 x 787s and 150 x 737s is closer to 4000 pilots.

Re experience requirements advertised on the website they are WAY WAY too low. An established airline could get away with 5000hour captains and 1500hour FOs but a newly establish carrier without a proper training infrastructure, SOPs, route experience, NO WAY. They need high time guys to start off and for that they will need to pay big money.

They may well try to do it on the cheap and if they do it will end up a dogs breakfast and they will never compete with the likes of EK and bumble along like EY did.

[kungfu panda]

Re redundant guys I doubt there are 700 and even if there were the new DFO is ex EK so he will be fully aware of every ex EK applicants history.

If they hope to attract EK pilots they will need to offer 30k US minimum plus benefits plus commuting. They will get away with less if they want to target Ethiopian or Kenyan (nearby 787 operators) and they may get a few desperados from QR and CX. They will get very few 777/787 pilots from the west for any amount of money.

Most likely they will reluctantly offer a Riyadh base with a commutable roster ie 10-14 block days off each rotation. And yes they will want to establish an expat community and vibe and have money spent in Saudi in an attempt to emulate Dubai’s successful strategy.

Re 10000 applicants blah blah blah typical HR bluster and BS.

Re recent Willy Walsh interview (rise Sir Willy move over Sir Tim) China is running at 50perc of pre covid levels. If they kick off then that’s a huge number of pilots for China and the surrounding regions placing huge pressure on RIA. People always underestimate the size of the Chinese market and the size of their ambitions and they will eventually work through their economic issues.

General pilot shortages are still apparent all over and the airlines as usual are hoping for the next disaster (ie recession) before they admit defeat and return salaries and conditions to where they should be at (the US is already there).

Re the presentation, yes rushed and the presentation date on the email didn’t even match the day of the week. The presentation was half assed and cut short not mentioning pay and conditions as well as other things as per the email. My guess is a bun fight is going on between the lowballers and quality camps within RIA.

Re 700 pilots …rubbish …72 x 787s and 150 x 737s is closer to 4000 pilots.

Re experience requirements advertised on the website they are WAY WAY too low. An established airline could get away with 5000hour captains and 1500hour FOs but a newly establish carrier without a proper training infrastructure, SOPs, route experience, NO WAY. They need high time guys to start off and for that they will need to pay big money.

They may well try to do it on the cheap and if they do it will end up a dogs breakfast and they will never compete with the likes of EK and bumble along like EY did.

I don't think that this will be anything of what you think.
A critical part of vision 2030 is Saudiisation. We all know that their targets will not be met by then but there will be a revolution inside Saudi Arabia if they're not really trying to achieve it. The Saudi's have high numbers of Pilots going through 4 year aviation degree's and Pilot training in the US. The last I heard was 2019 when they had 6000, that will clearly have grown considerably by now. Saudi Arabia is a very young and well educated country. RIA is for Saudi's over the medium term.

I know that a large percentage of applications for RIA have come from domestic Pilots, any Saudi Pilot living on the East Side of the country wants this job.

I don't believe that there will be commuting or upgrades for expat F/O's. Now I may be wrong but I know this country well from the inside.

[TBL Warrior]

I don't think that this will be anything of what you think.
A critical part of vision 2030 is Saudiisation. We all know that their targets will not be met by then but there will be a revolution inside Saudi Arabia if they're not really trying to achieve it. The Saudi's have high numbers of Pilots going through 4 year aviation degree's and Pilot training in the US. The last I heard was 2019 when they had 6000, that will clearly have grown considerably by now. Saudi Arabia is a very young and well educated country. RIA is for Saudi's over the medium term.

I know that a large percentage of applications for RIA have come from domestic Pilots, any Saudi Pilot living on the East Side of the country wants this job.

I don't believe that there will be commuting or upgrades for expat F/O's. Now I may be wrong but I know this country well from the inside.

I second this and would add that even with a considerable amount of experience gaining a work permit in Saudi, especially as a pilot, requires an expat to also meet educational requirements. If Saudia’s localisation policy is anything to go by, it required expat’s to hold a 4 year degree (preferably post graduate level).

[FlightDetent]

There's a reason why commuting has never been a part of the package in most of the airlines in the middle east. It keeps more money in the country as the families spend the dough internally.Does this raise the question to what purpose has the airline been built in the first place? To attract local spenders of money that had been locally printed? Doesn't add up.


Re recent Willy Walsh interview (rise Sir Willy move over Sir Tim) China is running at 50perc of pre covid levels. If they kick off then that’s a huge number of pilots for China and the surrounding regions placing huge pressure on RIA. To no surprise, when was the last time a big head airline exec was honest with his numbers not just numerically accurate.

China is on 50% international flights of 2019. Yet then, only of half of those those are PRC carriers due reciprocity representing around 700 daily flights missing and to be crewed. For a demand that is not here yet as so many ties disintegrated, by pilots who existed before COVID.

Since domestic traffic peaked at 14000 daily fligths recently, any voids to be filled are hardly of global workforce significance. Also easily filled by experienced RU jocks who can't really go anywhere else apart from... oh wait.

[allaru]

In case you missed it RIAs requirements have changed for the better. More realistic hours ie 6000 total 2000 command, 777 now included, and most importantly "Various rostering options are being considered".

[Horia]

Has anyone been contacted or had the status of their application change from “Received”?

[HeadUpTheTailpipe]

No one that I know who's applied has...

[778Skywalker]

Good afternoon all,

I did get a request this morning from Riyadh Air to fill out another more detailed questionnaire regarding Licensing, Experience and Employment history. I was also congratulated for having passed the first stage of their rigorous selection process.

I guess the screening has now picked up speed, any one else heard anything?

[Bravo Papa]

Anyone else just receive this:

"Thank you once again for your interest in joining the Riyadh Air family. We are thrilled to inform you, that you have successfully passed the initial stage of our rigorous selection process.

The next stage requires your participation in a questionnaire that focuses on your flying experience. Your thoughtful responses will enable us to gain a deeper understanding of your unique journey as a pilot."

Click the link and it takes me to update my password, no questions anywhere in sight!!