Airbus a320 flaps retraction/extension at hot weather

[wheremi]

For example. After landing in hot weather conditions we need to retract flaps at pos1. to prevent ‘AIR L(R) WING LEAK’.
Then at gate we shut down engines at retract flaps to 0. After turn around we start engines with flaps 0 in hot weather. So why there will be no ‘AIR L(R) WING LEAK’ message on ECAM.

[Jonty]

Are you sure about that? You’re supposed to leave them at 1 through out the turn around.

FCOM:
on ground, hot weather conditions may cause overheating to be detected around the bleed ducts in the wings, resulting in “AIR L (R) WING LEAK” warnings. Such warnings may be avoided during transit by keeping the slats in Configuration 1 when the OAT is above 30 °C.

[Uplinker]

Unless the FCOM has been changed, as Jonty says, you don't retract the flaps/slats, you leave them out by selecting config 1 as you taxi in, and leave them out during the turnaround on the ramp until setting take-off config after the next push and start.

Bit of a pain, and can't understand why Airbus have not fixed it by now.

[Max Angle]

At a lot places the re-fueller won't come near you with the flaps extended so you just have to take your chances.

[FlightDetent]

Have to read the FCOM really well on this one.

'To avoid' .... are you getting the WING LEAK warning in hot weather? No, of course. The temperature sensing (logic) has been improved and limits redefined years ago. Not sure if only SW or also HW.

Next, the FCOM say 'may' keep the slats out. Not that you have to.

Depends where you are in the world, you will see whole fleets not doing it or absolutely doing it. One team manages without the warning, the other manages to get the refuelling done.

[FlightDetent]

Alternatively, if you can't keep them extended for ground handling:

a) Close everyting up on taxi-in.
b) Refuel.
c) Extend to 1+F.

If you get the warning during the turnaround, remove the bleed source and let it cool down with increased ventilation once the slats are extended.

If you don't get the warning at all, perhaps you can just ignore it because it does not apply to your configuration.

NOTE: avoid urge to fine-tune and go for 1+0 just because it says SLATS. This could turn ugly as the lever and flaps are not in synchronous position

[390cruise]

Surely this is for early serial number aircraft only?

[Uplinker]

To avoid the refuelling "problem", you can retract everything, then shut down, then put just the slats out by powering the electric Blue Hyd pump only. You will get a config warning, as FD says, which (usually.....) goes away after the next engine start and all the hydraulics come back on line. Do it at your own risk !

[FlightDetent]

Don't do it with 1+0.

There is a reason the preliminary cockpit preparation has a safety check that the flap lever matches actual position.

It's not about the warning, but rather about someone making a safety assessment and formal fault tree and seeing the fruit at the branches' end.

It's about not being smarter than the manufacturer. They spell SLATS which may suggest 1+0 and my experience is that you shouldn't.

F/CTL
FLAPS....................................................... .............................CHECK POSITION
Check the upper ECAM display to confirm that the FLAPS position agrees with the handle position.

​​​​​​

[Jonty]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned about not switching the ADIRS off with the flaps extended.

[FlightDetent]

The occurrence rate for that event is very low.
+ needs to be 30 deg or above
+ pilots need to be aware of the slats-out(plus flaps) procedure AND not be told to ignore it where it does not apply
+ the crew need to be leaving the plane AND decide not to retract the flaps OR decide to retract them during cockpit-exit sequence only after ADIRS = OFF (more likely).

Still, the awareness on these forums is quite high. Search hits for "RTLU".

https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/547601-320-after-landing-action-query.html
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/604768-adirs-alignment-flaps-1-a.html
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/609271-adirs-alignment-flaps-1-a.html
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/609147-airbus-flaps-1-after-landing.html
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/606478-airbus-protection-against-rudder-deflection-under-normal-law.html
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/561964-flaps-during-transit-a320-2.html
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/598079-flaps-stand.html

[FlightDetent]

Uplinker et al.:

Unlike for the 32x, is it a common problem for 330/340? I suppose the fuel truck clearance is more easily attained with that airplane :E

[Uplinker]

I cannot remember now - have not flown one for some years :{

But as you say, flap clearance is not an issue on those bigger birds.

[Veruka Salt]

We did it on A330 & 340, but not the 350.

[WhatShortage]

The occurrence rate for that event is very low.
+ needs to be 30 deg or above
+ pilots need to be aware of the slats-out(plus flaps) procedure AND not be told to ignore it where it does not apply
+ the crew need to be leaving the plane AND decide not to retract the flaps OR decide to retract them during cockpit-exit sequence only after ADIRS = OFF (more likely).

Still, the awareness on these forums is quite high. Search hits for "RTLU".

https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/547601-320-after-landing-action-query.html
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/604768-adirs-alignment-flaps-1-a.html
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/609271-adirs-alignment-flaps-1-a.html
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/609147-airbus-flaps-1-after-landing.html
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/606478-airbus-protection-against-rudder-deflection-under-normal-law.html
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/561964-flaps-during-transit-a320-2.html
https://www.pprune.org/tech-log/598079-flaps-stand.html
Occurrence rate very low? Been to spain/turkey several times this summer, you can imagine the heat around there. Also, surprise surprise, NAV 4.4 NAV 3.8 NAV 5.3 guess who did several quick resets during summer? So, not that "very low"

[FlightDetent]

Occurrence rate very low? Been to spain/turkey several times this summer, you can imagine the heat around there. Also, surprise surprise, NAV 4.4 NAV 3.8 NAV 5.3 guess who did several quick resets during summer? So, not that "very low"Did you keep the slats out because otherwise there would be a warning?
Have you been trained what the FCOM says about the IRS resets on turnaround?

You are right to comment on a different exposure compared to my assesment, I observe you don't follow the rules it is based on..:}

[the_stranger]

Did you keep the slats out because otherwise there would be a warning?

You never know what you avoid by following a procedure, but we had the warning a few times when forgotten on African destinations and even when not forgotten (A330)

And those warnings are a pain to get rid of again. I'll make sure to follow the advice, even if the chance of a warning is slim.

[FlightDetent]

Second report for the 330.

Narrowbodies seem to behave differently thanks to some sort of technological development.

The SA FCOM procedure says you use the procedure to avoid the warnings that may appear above 30 OAT. However they don't come these days as much as I remember having them historically (Egypt above 40 deg) and agree it was a pain.

Memorires of the past, Aegean at ATH - all guys flaps out. Iberia at MAD everyone retracted. :confused:

[Black Pudding]

So you don’t bother with the procedure and when you push off stand and start the engine’s, you get the ECAM. You can’t ignore it or assume it’s spurious. Operational disruption if you can’t clear it, be confident it’s not spurious and have to return to stand.

[FlightDetent]

So you don’t bother with the procedure and when you push off stand and start the engine’s, you get the ECAM. You can’t ignore it or assume it’s spurious. Operational disruption if you can’t clear it, be confident it’s not spurious and have to return to stand.In order to prevent that, you don't ignore the procedure but apply it for the planes that would get affected. The text of the procedure allows for both approaches. Cue post #6.

[Black Pudding]

In order to prevent that, you don't ignore the procedure but apply it for the planes that would get affected. The text of the procedure allows for both approaches. Cue post #6.

I'm fully aware, my post was more towards “Why would you not do it” and risk causing operational disruption

[FlightDetent]

✌️ Thanks.

[CaptainMongo]

We get an ACARS message approximately 30 minutes prior to landing indicating temperature and turn time require setting Flaps1 during after landing flows.

[ucankedi]

I’m surprised no one has mentioned about not switching the ADIRS off with the flaps extended.
I'm not sure that's still a thing anymore. I believe they changed something in the software.
In any case, it is not mentioned in our FCOM anymore. Did you check your latest version, and, if so, do you still have it?