PPL Weight limit

[Gordomac]

Not sure where to post this but, in order to settle on-going bar discussion, can someone enlighten please ?

I thought all licencing was just a weight limit thing plus private/commercial. Can I fly a 747 on a PPl ?

My take was that you can fly, on a PPl, as Commander, up to a weight limit. Heavier stuff meant that one needed to go CommercialATP.

Up to now it is just a friendly discussion and, unusual, for me, has not yet turned into an ugly bar brawl/

[rudestuff]

It depends on the regulator, but yes you could technically operate a jet as a private pilot. The type rating test would be flown to airline transport pilot standard anyway. The insurance company might have a few things to say.

[B Fraser]

I thought that the heaviest aircraft that can be flown on a normal PPL is an AN-2. Perhaps that's just single engine piston types ?

[treadigraph]

I seem to recall reading about 20 years ago that the Gnat and the PC12 can both be flown on a UK PPL?

[eckhard]

It was said that Brian Trubshaw flew Concorde on a PPL. Can anybody confirm?

[longer ron]

He certainly ended up with an ATPL but I do not know the original date of issue - some images of his Licences in link below.

https://www.heritageconcorde.com/concorde-test-pilot---brian-trubshaw

[Airbanda]

It was said that Brian Trubshaw flew Concorde on a PPL. Can anybody confirm?

A bit of googling found a thread on here on the subject:

https://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-568210.html

See Mach Jump's post 25-09-2015 @ 17:43 which suggests he may have done test flights with a PPL as his only civilian qualification. However he joined Vickers as a test pilot after a distinguished RAF career including flying the King and time at ETPS.

[BANANASBANANAS]

When I flew B747F on a Singapore licence I flew with an EU F/O who had a FAA PPL in addition to his CAAS ATPL. On a layover at ANC he called in at the local FAA office to check his FAA PPL was still good to hire a light aircraft with in USA. They checked his FAA licence, CAAS licence and EU licence and his log books (he had just joined us from a EU loco) and gave him (for free) a B737 rating on his FAA PPL. Obviously he couldn't fly it for revenue purposes but in theory he could private hire a B737 in USA for recreational flying if he so wished.

[36050100]

As far as I understand it ( which probably isn’t very far at all), the licence privileges are essentially to do with hire & reward. As a PPL, essentially you have to pay for your flying. If you can afford to operate a 747 privately, you can fly it, subject to having a suitable rating attached to the licence. In this case, it would be a 747 Type Rating. You would need to have passed ground exams covering the theory of air-conditioning & pressurisation, avionics, meteorology, flight planning, gas turbines etc etc, in addition to to the Type Rating theoretical knowledge exam. As the 747 Type Rating includes a multi engine Instrument rating, you would need to have sufficient hours to qualify for one of those too, and a Multi Crew Cooperation course pass.

I don’t think there’s any reason why those ratings can’t be attached to a PPL, but by the time you have done all the above, you’re probably not far off getting a CPL anyway.

Let us know how you get on won’t you!

[Gargleblaster]

I think my pretty plain, standard EASA PPL allows me to fly aircraft up to 5700 kg, single engine, piston, land...

[Torquetalk]

Not sure where to post this but, in order to settle on-going bar discussion, can someone enlighten please ?

I thought all licencing was just a weight limit thing plus private/commercial. Can I fly a 747 on a PPl ?

My take was that you can fly, on a PPl, as Commander, up to a weight limit. Heavier stuff meant that one needed to go CommercialATP.

Up to now it is just a friendly discussion and, unusual, for me, has not yet turned into an ugly bar brawl/

Begin with the manufacturer limitations. Can it be flown SP? No? Then all the requirements to be part of a qualified crew on a high mass, complex, MP aircraft have to be met for whichever authority is involved. Even if theoretically possible as a PPL(A), maybe, with add-ons, you'd be doing all the things needed for the ATPL(A) + MP OPS on type anyway. So I think it's a moot point tbh.

[mattpilot]

John Travolta 'merely' has a PPL, but he's got quite a few type ratings attached, including that famous 707

[Torquetalk]

John Travolta 'merely' has a PPL, but he's got quite a few type ratings attached, including that famous 707

As he was flying as part of a crew on a commercial airliner (Continental?), I think he had more tickets than a PPL(A). He may have done multiple add-ons, then finished the job. But he couldn't be flying pax on a revenue flight with a PPL(A).

[Loose rivets]

A few of us put the Viscount on our PPLs back in the 60's. On dead heading and occupying the left seat, we were able to log P1. Various chats in Shell Mex House on the subject, prior to the act.

It wasn't long before we were told we couldn't swap seats, so all rather a waste of time, apart from bar-chat one-upmanship. I checked my PPL in recent years just in case I'd miss-remembered it, but it was much as I recalled.

Somewhere, I've got a PPL, CPL, Senior CPL, ALTP and an ATPL.

[36050100]

I think my pretty plain, standard EASA PPL allows me to fly aircraft up to 5700 kg, single engine, piston, land...

Those limitations are the limitations of the “(SEP) Land” Rating. You can add different Ratings to your PPL to fly aircraft outside those limitations.

[Gordomac]

Cripes, we are getting there. I get the line between private flying and public transport/commercial. I get the bit about working up the PPL through stuff we all did; night rating, twin rating, IMC rting etc etc but I think we still bumped up next to the overall weight limit.

"Loose", viscount on a PPL but you would have had all the foregoing ratings in the first place so it might have just been a Ministry upgrade. It also depends on the aircraft registration. The aircraft might be registered for public transport which results in the requirement for a Public Transport licence.

I flew delivery flights from a USA company to my UK company. but we had to obtain US FAA ATP authorisation for "one-off" delivery flights of US registered transport aircraft. I am rather proud of my US FAA ATP, temporary, but looks good amongst my display of all those awarded to you too, LooseR.

Looks like I still do not have enough ammo to hit the bar brawl but here's the final tease :

I win the next Euromillion !90m. I decide, instead of a camper van, I will buy a 747 from Mr Boeing that I intend to fly around the world and live-in it too. I renew my PPL at a local flying club, get renewed multi engine, (I think I will go for the IR) R/T licence, but, I still fear that the weight limit will have to be negotiated with the registration authority..

Thanks for all the input people.

[BillieBob]

There is no weight limit on an EASA (or UK) PPL. It is theoretically possible to add a type rating for any multi-pilot aeroplane but one would first have to hold or have held a MEIR, pass the ATPL examinations, complete an MCC course and an advanced UPRT course. Since no insurance company would be likely to provide cover for a PPL to actually fly such an aeroplane and, in any case a PPL could not fly one in a commercial operation or for remuneration, it seems an awful lot of work for little or no benefit beyond bragging rights.

[anxiao]

Gordo, for comparison, my experience with the FAA.

Around 1996 I proffered my HKG ATPL and log book to the Torrance FAA office and within twenty minutes they had issued an FAA PPL with only a 747 on it. That was the only aircraft I was current upon. The guy behind the desk commented that if I found someone to rent me one, I was good to go.

It at least allowed me to go down the road to Torrance AP and start to get a Robbo on my licence. Simpler times.

[Maoraigh1]

"and, in any case a PPL could not fly one in a commercial operation or for remuneration, it seems an awful lot of work for little or no benefit beyond bragging."
Is Wingly still going?:)

[Whopity]

Some years ago one of the Concorde test pilots flew the aircraft on a PPL. He subsequently obtained an ATPL

[36050100]

Some years ago one of the Concorde test pilots flew the aircraft on a PPL. He subsequently obtained an ATPL

How did they square that one away? Was he not being paid to fly?

I’m not nitpicking; I guess he had suitable experience and was an ETPS graduate, so eminently capable. Simpler times I guess when common sense didn’t let bureaucracy get in the way.

[Gordomac]

Billie ; Thanks. Definitive answer and I am now readied for the pub brawl this afternoon. I have, in addition, decided not to spend my Friday lotto win on a 74 but will just get others to fly me around.

[Meikleour]

An interesting quirk on licencing: when I was converting onto the A330 at Toulouse one of the instructors showed me his licence which said in the type rating section simply "all Airbus types"!!