Airship order from Air Nostrum

[LTNman]

Spanish airline Air Nostrum reserves 10 Airlander airships from Bedford-based firm https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-618115 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-61811535)

HAV said Airlander 10 will cut flight emissions by up to 90% for journeys across Air Nostrum's regional routes in Spain.


The airships, which stay aloft using helium and electricity, have been commissioned to seat 100 people.


All seems somewhat strange, what sort of speed will they be travelling at?

[DaveReidUK]

All seems somewhat strange, what sort of speed will they be travelling at?

"Airlander 10 has a top speed of 130 kph and can stay airborne for up to five days."

HAV (hybridairvehicles.com) (https://www.hybridairvehicles.com/our-aircraft/faq/)

[SWBKCB]

Spanish airline Air Nostrum reserves 10 Airlander airships from Bedford-based firm https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-618115 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-61811535)



"Reserves" - wonder how much money they have put down? :suspect:

[LTNman]

I can see a long range freight market use for airships but not for a passenger scheduled service operating domestically in Spain. For starters they would need different handling and would be not be able to use a conventional aircraft stand. Then there are wind speed limits and boarding issues. Seems more like an April fool joke yet it is true.

https://i.imgur.com/TQnkijL.jpg

[Less Hair]

Read up on "Cargolifter" and you will know how this might end.

[cavokblues]

"These qualities will make it an attractive option for different types and conditions of operation, including movements in towns without airport facilities and on islands." - https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/06/air-nostrum-will-be-the-first-customer-of-the-airlander-10/

Does sound like they wouldn't be operating them to conventional airports. Top speed of 130kph - that could make some of the flight times in Spain very long........

[TimmyW]

A news report yesterday said they need more than £50 million funding to get production started.

Not sure this will go anywhere.

[Tartiflette Fan]

"These qualities will make it an attractive option for different types and conditions of operation, including movements in towns without airport facilities and on islands." - https://www.aviacionline.com/2022/06/air-nostrum-will-be-the-first-customer-of-the-airlander-10/

Does sound like they wouldn't be operating them to conventional airports. Top speed of 130kph - that could make some of the flight times in Spain very long........

Using unique "airports" would allow much time saving, but at a significant infrastructure cost to the operators

[AirportPlanner1]

This might not be as ridiculous as it sounds if it were utilised for the Balearic operation. You’d be looking at an hour give or take for Palma-Ibiza and Mahon, about 1:30 for Ibiza-Alicante and Valencia, about 1:40 for Palma-Barcelona, 2 hours for Mahon-Barcelona. All much faster than the ferry and adding probably only 20 mins or so the the block times of the intra-island routes. Ibiza-Mahon is longish but this doesn’t seem to be an existing route.

[Uplinker]

We used an Airship Industries 600 to provide an airborne camera for a televised cricket match from Lords many moons ago.

It was a lovely machine, very pleasant to fly in and powered by Porsche flat six car engines that sounded very nice, and with ducted fan pods. It took about 40 mins to get overhead Lords from Cambridgeshire but about 2 hours to get back, against headwinds.

And it required a large ground crew of about 10 people and a mobile anchoring mast vehicle in order to take-off and land. I can't see how airships will give a commercial return.

[DC3 Dave]

A news report yesterday said they need more than £50 million funding to get production started.

Not sure this will go anywhere.

Certainly not DSA! 😆

Sorry, that was a cheap shot but at least it proves I read your posts.

[N707ZS]

Hopefully they have sorted the problems which caused the crash.

[DuncanDoenitz]

Hopefully they have sorted the problems which caused the crash.
And the successful aircraft type that this comment doesn't apply to is ........

[N707ZS]

Suggest you start reading from the top and then simply google the craft in question to see the incident.

[DuncanDoenitz]

I remember both incidents; I think one was in flight, and the other whilst moored/parked/tethered.

My point was that a great many aircraft which have suffered incidents/accidents during development have gone on to quite successful careers after they've "sorted the problems".

Google HP Victor, DH Comet, Bristol Britannia, BAC 1-11, DH110/Sea Vixen, F-14, B-17, B-47, and so on. Many of these suffered early development problems which had significantly greater expenditure of energy and consequent personal impact on the individuals concerned than did the Airlander incidents.

[VickersVicount]

Not sure this will go anywhere.
Im very sure this will go nowhere. Like those Indian start up carriers from Leeds etc

[jolihokistix]

Is one allowed to wish them luck, and hope that the business takes off in proof of concept?

Sometimes the opinions sound stronger than the winds.

[SWBKCB]

Is one allowed to wish them luck, and hope that the business takes off in proof of concept?

Sometimes the opinions sound stronger than the winds.

I agree - think this will be more about competing with intra-island ferry routes than it is about conventional air services and the associated infrastructure

[Asturias56]

"Google HP Victor, DH Comet, Bristol Britannia, BAC 1-11, DH110/Sea Vixen, F-14, B-17, B-47, and so on. Many of these suffered early development problems"

Yes but at the same time there were thousands, tens of thousands, of other aircraft flying OK - the development problems were with one design.

There aren't any other fleets of airships around. The problems seem to be systemic looking back over 120 years - they're a dead end for almost all commercial uses

[LessThanSte]

With 5 days aloft time, i could see a lucrative role as an alternative to (very polluting) cruises. We could see one of these pottering around the Nordic Fjords, for example. Beyond that, there is an increasingly popular slow travel movement - for example people choosing ever more to travel by coach than by train. Going by airship instead of by jet will have a heap of positives that may very well outweigh the negatives (speed).

And if it doesn't a large concrete expanse to land (i.e. a traditional airport) - that's a good thing too. Any reasonably accessible field (I can think of 3 or 4 locations within 3 miles of my desk) is suddenly a potential journey start point.

That's not to say that i think this idea will work or that these airships will ever be delivered. But I'm not sure I agree with some (most?) of the negativity above!

[DaveReidUK]

Any reasonably accessible field (I can think of 3 or 4 locations within 3 miles of my desk) is suddenly a potential journey start point.

Well maybe not that suddenly:

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x512/air_lander_1024x512_a08a5d7f306445b584fdd2ee7ac67f773e65614d .jpg

[DuncanDoenitz]

There aren't any other fleets of airships around. The problems seem to be systemic looking back over 120 years - they're a dead end for almost all commercial uses
I don't think that's true. We need to constantly review what were once seen as dead-ends, in the light of emergent technologies. For example; helicopter-aeroplane hybrids (witness Fairey Rotodyne and V-22), and flying wings (YB-35/YB-49 and B-1). Or indeed, aeroplanes and helicopters generically; they didn't work in the 15th/19th centuries, why did they succeed in the 20th?

I'm not arguing that it will definitely come to fruition, but just because it didn't work then doesn't mean that it can't be viable now.

[Uplinker]

With 5 days aloft time, i could see a lucrative role as an alternative to (very polluting) cruises. We could see one of these pottering around the Nordic Fjords, for example. Beyond that, there is an increasingly popular slow travel movement - for example people choosing ever more to travel by coach than by train. Going by airship instead of by jet will have a heap of positives that may very well outweigh the negatives (speed).

And if it doesn't a large concrete expanse to land (i.e. a traditional airport) - that's a good thing too. Any reasonably accessible field (I can think of 3 or 4 locations within 3 miles of my desk) is suddenly a potential journey start point.

That's not to say that i think this idea will work or that these airships will ever be delivered. But I'm not sure I agree with some (most?) of the negativity above!

Not being negative, just realistic. I have worked in an airship, (smaller than an Airlander and not as aircrew), so I have seen personally what is involved. I would dig out the photos, but not sure where they are.

On a cruise, where are you going to load all the food and toilets and sewage tanks. And bedrooms and kitchen? Or perhaps you mean the pax get off every night?

Landing and taking off needs a large ground crew, engineers and a mast anchor vehicle, GPU and a fuel truck and honey wagon etc who all need to drive to wherever the airship is going to be and be put up in local hotels, incurring taxis etc. Not impossible but not quite as easy or as cheap as landing in any field.

[N707ZS]

You cannot just tie it to the fence and go for a beer.