Passenger lands Cessna Caravan in West Palm Beach after pilot incapacitation

[lelebebbel]

Happened today 12:30pm local time according to this report/video:

https://www.airlineratings.com/news/passenger-no-idea-lands-plane-pilot-falls-ill/?fbclid=IwAR2S-JIQUCugF3hPR0QDECraFK-4PJb_m2iNvzOdqXJsm_e5DPhhuF0xnLk

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1580x605/screenshot_114_5a75c2f989e2e7ce5ee027fae587affffe3a31fc.png

[Avman]

Hmm, the passenger must have had some piloting experience only just not on a Caravan. Many ATCOs have PPLs but I think few, if any, have experience on the Caravan either. I think there's more to this story.

[Less Hair]

He flew like some nice DME arc first, turned north and then did some left 270 plus a soft landing and taxi off the active. Well done but maybe it was more like a passenger pilot not used to Caravans? Or maybe "the nun" and that old vietnam war pilot that never wanted to fly again did it?

[andrasz]

I think there's more to this story.

Agreed. That descent and approach track looks suspiciously well executed for someone who has "no idea" how to fly the plane. I do have some idea, but I'm sure I would have spent quite some time while being vectored about to familiarize myself with cockpit layout and controls before making an attempt at an approach. The first part of the track after the incident seems to be a fairly precisely flown DME arc, and that touchdown appeared far better than most first solos.

[fox niner]

Anyway, good job!
And i hope the real pilot recovers well.

[DaveReidUK]

From the Tower log it sounds like the passenger has some piloting experience.

[nivsy]

Whatever the situation the guy done really well. Why does no one believe though that he had no flying experience? Feel bitter because it's not really that hard to do? 🤭😁😆

[Less Hair]

“I’ve got a serious situation here,” the passenger said to traffic control from the cockpit. “My pilot’s gone incoherent. I have no idea how to fly the airplane…”When asked where the plane was, the passenger responded, “I have no idea. I can see the coast of Florida in front of me and I have no idea.”

Connect the dots. They just don't add up.

[double_barrel]

Is the ATC audio available anywhere ?

[TowerDog]

Whatever the situation the guy done really well. Why does no one believe though that he had no flying experience? Feel bitter because it's not really that hard to do? 🤭😁😆

Not hard if you know how.
For a pax with no flying experience and no ground training it can be hard.
If indeed this person had no aviation background or training, he or she did great.:ok:

[Beaker_]

I just read the same story here: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/passenger-with-no-flying-experience-lands-plane-at-florida-airport-after-pilot-becomes-incapacitated/ar-AAX9IVC?li=AAJsPCA

I'm especially intrigued at this particular sentence: The plane, which was carrying two people in addition to the pilot, was flying at an altitude of 91,00ft near southern Florida :ooh:

[BRUpax]

nivsy, I'm SLF. I have handled aircraft such as a PA-28 and a Cessna 150. I have made many cockpit flights and landings on airliners. I have of course "qualified" (tongue-in-cheek) on MFS. As such I might (with lots of luck) just about manage to land, sorry, bounce a light aircraft on a sufficiently long and wide runway (as FLL). A Caravan is, I imagine, already a tad more complicated. The almost flawless execution of this continued flight, turns, descent, approach and landing makes it difficult for me to believe that the PF had no idea about flying an airplane. It is more likely that he was not familiar with the type but not that he had never been at the controls of an aeroplane (airplane) before.

[DaveReidUK]

I'm especially intrigued at this particular sentence:
The plane, which was carrying two people in addition to the pilot, was flying at an altitude of 91,00ft near southern Florida

These pesky commas have a mind of their own ...

[Fostex]

Flying is all energy management - most students mess this bit up and will fly an approach with too much airspeed. They overshoot or try and force the aircraft down onto the runway when it still has sufficient airspeed to remain airborne.

This is why I am suspicious of this video. For someone with apparently no experience, this looks like a stable approach flown at the correct speeds. If it was a C152 maybe, but a Caravan, different story,

[Less Hair]

Let's put it this way: Somebody took control and saved the day and hopefully the pilot.

[Beaker_]

These pesky commas have a mind of their own ...

I read that as 91,000ft :)

[SimVisualsEngineer]

I'm also SLF with aviator friends. Way back in college I flunked a student medical because as a so called Flight Surgeon found an anomaly in how my eyes tracked with each other. Perhaps he misunderstood that I did NOT want to be a commercial or military pilot. I never had the money to hire s specialist to dispute his findings and I have a "I'm sure you'll understand" letter from an FAA medical type in Oklahoma City. I'm actually in the computer as an "Airman" with no licenses.

I have friends that have PPLs. I love the 172, I have mixed feelings about the Cherokee, and have a lot of time in the right seat of a Tomahawk that probably should be adjusted by some sort of giant airframe warping tool.

I had a first ride at 15 with a CFI as a birthday present. I had read every book in the local library system on flight. My CFI for the day also arranged a tour of the local Tracon and I ended up with an hour and a half of mentoring on primary and secondary radar by an FAA senior engineer.

I had the sectional two weeks before the flight. Scouting had taught me maps are very useful and I had the local area pretty much memorized by the time of the first ride.

I was very short at the time and had a choice of setting on phone books and seeing out or reaching the pedals. On a windless sunny I had no problems staying on glideslope because it was easier to see the steam gages then to see out. CfI took the controls back at around 250 feet and finished landing. I remember the PAPI being damn cool and useful.

Next flight was many years later on the day I sat the national teachers exam. The University flight school was selling rides that day and I booked a slot. I told them I may be late because the exam was three ten hour days; The student pilots held a sunset slot for me,. They bumped a VIP to the rear bench.. Their excuse was something about teacher appreciation day, and that anybody who would volunteer for a year in a school to get his license was nuts to begin with.

Left hand visual approach to 100 feet or so. With barely a word from the CFI. From ten miles out.

Having an Amatuer Radio License means Aviation Comms protocols are easy. RC planes lead to a pretty good understanding of flight dynamics.

Since then I've made friends with an engineer with a Tomahawk. Every time we go cross country his SLF get a drill starting with: "I just had a heart attack, what are you going to do"?"

Every PPl I've ever had a ride with has given a little brief and demo to whomever was in the other seat.. it is just common sense.

. I now work in a stressful, high tech environment. On a yearly 100$ hamburg run with my friend, I set there with a sectional on my lap, a stopwatch, a notebook with pre-planned alternates and frequencies, He's flying on a GPS with a two line display, and I'm following on the VORs.

I spent sseveral years as a field service engineer riding in the back, and you can see by my username that once helped design a very nice AATD level sim in a trailer with really good visuals.

I have no delusions of some fantasy landing in an airliner, Hollywood style. The idea of having to program an FMS and Autoland with zero training seems like a great way to die. I have the utmost respect for ATPs who can hand fly "Big Iron"

Having built a sim, do I even remotely belive X-Plane or MSFs is going to teach you everything you need to know to land VFR on clear day.. Um, no


Could some one with serious land or marine navigation skills get to the airport with radar help.. Probably if not certainly. A surveyor, or civil engineer, could easily get to a field.

If the unthinkable happens, and assuming I could get my friends body off the yoke, could I get the bird lined up yes.
Can I get it down and walk away? One in one hundred.. if its IFR, well...at least I have.a will made out. Provided I'm riding in a docile Cessna. It will be a good try at best in anything else.

For the obvious legal reasons no one has ever let me try to land.

Do I believe a mature technology oriented person with experience in other vehicles could do this, yeah, maybe, but the crash would be interesting if you did not have some outside help.

Just the perspective of an SLF with skills in other related areas.

Steve

[Quartz-1]

I think this is the audio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MDwzNtDMlA

[20driver]

Looking at the Garmin website I do not see the 208 listed as approved for this.
It does look the plane flew an approach.
If it was Garmin autoland at work - that is a marketing coup.

[albatross]

Well done to both ATC and the passenger.

Don’t know if we need to thank Mission Control for handling the re-entry from 91,000.

Only downside is now everyone will know how easy it is! Our reputations as steely eyed aviators may suffer. (JOKE)

[EDLB]

His RT was too professional not to have any piloting experience. So there is more to the storry. Only wonder why ATC asked for a frequency change. The last thing you want is a passenger fiddling with the frequency setting and loosing the connection.

[MLHeliwrench]

His RT was too professional not to have any piloting experience. So there is more to the storry. Only wonder why ATC asked for a frequency change. The last thing you want is a passenger fiddling with the frequency setting and loosing the connection.

30 seconds in you can tell he is at least comfortable with the basics - tells the controller confidently his decent rate and current altitude. could of simply had a bunch of time playing sims or maybe "flew" a bit with friends over the years as co pilot on their light singles.

[gums]

Salute!

Lots more on this story, and if my hired pilot had a probem I would have figured out the radio button and said the same thing, but that I had flown other planes before. Big difference between an innocent SLF and someone who had flown before. Especially the radio R/T.

I always wondered if I could handle a B737 or Bus 320 if asked. Never flew a heavy, but aero is aero, and if I could work the radios I could make a good approach versus just giving up and becoming a smoking hole.

More to this story, IMHO.

Gums sends...

[172driver]

Great outcome, everybody walked away and they can reuse the airplane!

However, I agree with others here - the 'pax' sounds way too comfortable on the radio and also uses phraseology like 'maintaining niner (!) onehundred'. Could of course just be an aviation enthusiast and flight simmer or perhaps someone who has flown with friends a lot. That said, the way the approach was flown - either that guy had some experience or he's the most amazing natural - or both!

Does anyone know what happened to the pilot? Can't find any info.

[lelebebbel]

He was sitting up front next to the pilot. Statistically the odds are that this wasn't the first time. And that means there's a good chance he's controlled that plane before as well, and listened to countless radio calls. Whether he's licensed or not will soon come out, but passengers with significant stick time can't be that unusual in light singles like that. For what it's worth I'm a helicopter pilot, I travel a lot around Canada with an engineer in the other seat. I know for a fact that some of those engineers (who are not pilots) would not have much trouble landing the machine if the dual controls happen to be in and the conditions are not too tricky

[tartare]

That's a pilot!
He uses correct terminology - maintaining ninety one hundred.
He knows what squawk means and is able to switch codes to 7700.
He uses appropriate coms brevity.
And he's calm... considering what's happened.

[SpamCanDriver]

His RT was too professional not to have any piloting experience. So there is more to the storry. Only wonder why ATC asked for a frequency change. The last thing you want is a passenger fiddling with the frequency setting and loosing the connection.

Could of been approaching the edge of the frequencies range?

[flyinkiwi]

That's a pilot!
He uses correct terminology - maintaining ninety one hundred.
He knows what squawk means and is able to switch codes to 7700.
He uses appropriate coms brevity.

Not too many pilots saying 10-4 on the radio where I live. ATC would tell you off for not using properly phraseology (unless you are in an actual emergency then anything goes).

I suspect he's a trained first responder. When I think about these rare but not unique events, the common thread seems to be that the passenger knew enough about how to use the radio that they could communicate with ATC, they then learn the rest of what they need to know as they go.

[double_barrel]

I was initially very skeptical about this. But I believe that he’s not a pilot: he says 10-4 at several points, he never reads back an instruction and he called a squawk code a frequency. But I didn’t hear any instructions for the approach and landing, I look forward to hearing the full story.

[pattern_is_full]

We'll find out (maybe) but I don't have any particular doubts about the situation as described.

Among other things we don't hear the really tricky bits (final energy management, pattern, getting lined up) since those were apparently coached via cellphone.

A lot of folks with no aviation experience do have both comms experience, and situational experience to cope with emergent situations calmly: surface-based military, paramedics, law enforcement, firefighters...and probably some others I left out (apologies!)

And there are a lot of "Walter Mittys" out there who may have acquired a significant amount of "ground-school" knowledge, from magazines, books, cockpit youtubes, and yes - simming. Not operational knowledge or experience, but every little bit helps.

[B2N2]

As far as I know this was a privately owned aircraft and my best guess this was the owner or at the very least a very frequent front seat passenger.
In any case he did a great job considering the circumstances.
Any word on the pilot and if he survived?

[DaveReidUK]

As far as I know this was a privately owned aircraft and my best guess this was the owner or at the very least a very frequent front seat passenger.

Registered to a pair of Connecticut companies.

[B2N2]

Registered to a pair of Connecticut companies.

Which is the common way to own a “business-asset” in the US.
Probably not their only plane, expect a jet also.
Doesn’t change my expectations that it’s the owner and a very experienced passenger who’s been paying attention or even taken the wheel on occasion.

[Peristatos]

https://nypost.com/2022/05/11/air-traffic-controller-coaches-passenger-on-landing-plane/

[zzuf]

Salute!

Lots more on this story, and if my hired pilot had a probem I would have figured out the radio button and said the same thing, but that I had flown other planes before. Big difference between an innocent SLF and someone who had flown before. Especially the radio R/T.

I always wondered if I could handle a B737 or Bus 320 if asked. Never flew a heavy, but aero is aero, and if I could work the radios I could make a good approach versus just giving up and becoming a smoking hole.

More to this story, IMHO.

Gums sends...
Gums, with your background you would sort it out even without outside help. Don't need any FMC stuff in a radar environment. The A320/B737 would just be another type for you. They were designed for old buggers, like us, to safely operate.

[john_tullamarine]

Concur with zzuf. Turn all the JBs off and fly it like a C150 - worked for me.

I know naught about this event's detail. However, for what little it may be worth, years ago I was working on an aircraft support project. Two LAMEs were my operator-support-go-on-lots-of-world-trips guys. Both were active FS junkies (as well as being top troops). As far as I knew, neither had ever touched a pole.

I took them along one night on a 734 sim session and, while the studs were having a break, gave them each a run (motion off). Each managed a takeoff, circuit and landing to a respectable standard, considering. Not decorative and pretty but certainly workable. Raw data, manual throttle.

For what it may be worth.

[212man]

With his name in the public domain, some cursory searching shows him here: Lakeland Window Treatments - Carpet, Blinds, Drapes (sunshineinterior.com) (http://sunshineinterior.com/about-sunshine-interiors/)

Darren...

[zzuf]

Concur with zzuf. Turn all the JBs off and fly it like a C150 - worked for me.

I know naught about this event's detail. However, for what little it may be worth, years ago I was working on an aircraft support project. Two LAMEs were my operator-support-go-on-lots-of-world-trips guys. Both were active FS junkies (as well as being top troops). As far as I knew, neither had ever touched a pole.

I took them along one night on a 734 sim session and, while the studs were having a break, gave them each a run (motion off). Each managed a takeoff, circuit and landing to a respectable standard, considering. Not decorative and pretty but certainly workable. Raw data, manual throttle.

For what it may be worth.
Hi JT along the same lines, years ago flying an ETPS Viscount out of Boscombe down to Hurn, with a RAF flight engineer in the RHS ( he was there because I knew nothing about the aircraft systems etc). Anyway, he flew a couple of really good ILS's IMC breaking out at about 400ft - good landings, no prompting required. I suspect he may have done similar before😁

[Mogwi]

I was always made to feel inferior by the way the 747-400 could land itself. All you need to do is select reverse and then apply the brakes. I suspect that most modern pax aircraft are similar. Just remember to disengage George before you try to take the high-speed turn-off!

Mog

[tdracer]

Salute!

Lots more on this story, and if my hired pilot had a probem I would have figured out the radio button and said the same thing, but that I had flown other planes before. Big difference between an innocent SLF and someone who had flown before. Especially the radio R/T.

I always wondered if I could handle a B737 or Bus 320 if asked. Never flew a heavy, but aero is aero, and if I could work the radios I could make a good approach versus just giving up and becoming a smoking hole.

More to this story, IMHO.

Gums sends...
Never had any pilot training, but - as would be expected - after 40 years in the industry, I have a very good understanding of how aircraft fly.
About 20 years ago, I was in one of Boeing's 777 simulators with a training pilot where he was checking on some concerns I'd raised. After we finished up the planned testing, we still had a fair amount of simulator time left. The training pilot asked me if I wanted to have some fun.
He set the sim up for a manual landing at the old Hong Kong airport (which I understand was one of the trickiest major airports in the world for landing). Then he said go for it (purely visual approach). Now, I have a Master's degree in Aerospace Engineering, (at the time) 20+ years practical experience with countless hours on the flight deck during flight testing, and I didn't have to use the radio. I also had a trainer sitting next to me coaching me. But I pretty much nailed the landing. Bottom line is that - provided everything is working - it wasn't that hard (although I was nervous enough that I was sweating pretty good).

It's when the weather goes south and/or things go wrong that pilots earn their money.

[Discorde]

If I'm taking a passenger with me in a light aircraft and they're sitting in the copilot's seat I brief them on the operation of the radio transmit switch: the rationale is that if I become incapacitated my passenger can summon assistance. But to avoid alarm I say: 'If my transmit button goes u/s you can do the radio comms for me'.

How Do We Fly the Plane? (https://www.steemrok.com/howdo2020anon.pdf)

[gums]

Salute!

Thanks, zz and Fathom and JT.

I just wish more folks would have a bit more background on their profile so we could judge who is a Walter Mitty or armchair test pilot.

Gums sends...

[Auxtank]

Dodgy story.

How the hell would a non-pilot know how to stick 7700 in the box of a G1000 - which I think this particular 208 was equipped with?

Bound to come out that he was FAA PPL - just not rated on the Caravan.

[Machdiamond]

He never managed to ident, let alone squawk 7700.

Official FAA statement with more details:
https://medium.com/faa/miracle-in-the-air-air-traffic-controllers-guide-passenger-to-land-plane-safely-27362004f07c

- Two passengers on board
- One of them picked up the controls as the pilot lost consciousness and the airplane entered a dive in a sharp turn. (6000 ft/min according to Flightaware).
- FAA confirms the passenger had zero flight training
- No word yet on the pilot condition

[Obba]

Instructor friend...?

Instructor on the Left - 'New' Pilot on the right...
Passenger With No Flying Experience Lands Plane After Medical Emergency - YouTube

[Auxtank]

He never managed to ident, let alone squawk 7700.

Official FAA statement with more details:
https://medium.com/faa/miracle-in-the-air-air-traffic-controllers-guide-passenger-to-land-plane-safely-27362004f07c

- Two passengers on board
- One of them picked up the controls as the pilot lost consciousness and the airplane entered a dive in a sharp turn. (6000 ft/min according to Flightaware).
- FAA confirms the passenger had zero flight training
- No word yet on the pilot condition


That makes more sense. In that case Good Effort and well done.

Do we know how the incapacitated Pilot is yet?

[pattern_is_full]

FOX news website says the hospital reports the original pilot is "stabilized."

Over here we have strict HIPAA privacy laws - hospitals will not release anything more specific without patient or family consent.

And the FAA won't either, unless/until they identify something actually significant to aviation safety or operations (like a fumes event, O2 failure (not likely at that altitude) or similar). Simply passing out for personal medical reasons won't qualify.

CNN has a sped-up video of the actual touchdown here - not much to see, possibly a slightly flat attitude and minor bounce, but still an "A+" effort for a non-pilot: https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/florida-passenger-lands-plane/index.html

[B2N2]

My question was intended as did he survive or pass away.
Sudden incapacitation has a tendency to not end well.

[double_barrel]

It has to be said the the Caravan is a very 'steady' aircraft to fly. In terms of pure handling, probably easier to control than a C172; although of course a vastly more complex aircraft to fully manage. But still, an extraordinary achievement by the passenger and the ATCO who talked him down over the phone.

[CVividasku]

Salute!
..

I always wondered if I could handle a B737 or Bus 320 if asked. Never flew a heavy, but aero is aero, and if I could work the radios I could make a good approach versus just giving up and becoming a smoking hole.

I think flying a medium jet is much more difficult, even if it's still an airplane.
You have automation to take into account, tail strike clearance, landing performance can be of concern as well.

I would not know the best advice to give to a non pilot alone at the controls, except if there was a CAT iii autoland available.

[Jhieminga]

Interesting comparison: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-61422555

[DuncanDoenitz]

I think flying a medium jet is much more difficult, even if it's still an airplane.
You have automation to take into account, tail strike clearance, landing performance can be of concern as well.

I would not know the best advice to give to a non pilot alone at the controls, except if there was a CAT iii autoland available.
OTOH; there's a better probability of having someone else in the cabin with a close-to appropriate skillset.

Of course, identifying such a person is going to require an interesting pa from the cabin crew .......

[fergusd]

Genuinely laughing at all the denial.

This chap is just one of those people, albeit rare, who is just much, much better than you, likely at almost everything :-)

While it may be impossible to believe to an arrogant pilot, these people do exist.

[BRUpax]

fergusd, I don't think that it's a question of denial, it was more about how it was presented by the press. All that is being said is that the guy must have had some knowledge to achieve what he did. It may well be that he spent hours on that aircraft in the right hand seat. It may well be that the pilot often let him have a go at basic flying. I have no pilot license but I have over the years handled light aircraft and even a PA-31 Navajo on one occasion. The press initially focused on the passenger as not knowing how to fly. I think that most are saying that he may not have had any formal experience but he must have had some raw basic knowledge to draw from.

[ehwatezedoing]

Genuinely laughing at all the denial.

This chap is just one of those people, albeit rare, who is just much, much better than you, likely at almost everything :-)

While it may be impossible to believe to an arrogant pilot, these people do exist.
If we look a the incidents/accidents causes lately, I think he did a better job at managing this emergency then some licensed pilots would have :p

[sitigeltfel]

OTOH; there's a better probability of having someone else in the cabin with a close-to appropriate skillset.

Of course, identifying such a person is going to require an interesting pa from the cabin crew .......

"Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain would like to invite any pilots on board, who want to do some hours building, to come to the front of the cabin".

[cbradio]

What happened to the post suggesting gums was a Walter Mitty? - priceless!! 😀

[ve3id]

From the Tower log it sounds like the passenger has some piloting experience.

I very much doubt it if he says "10-4" on the radio!

[212man]

What happened to the post suggesting gums was a Walter Mitty? - priceless!! 😀
A pity it’s gone. There’s always one muppet around…..

[Alpine Flyer]

Great job by both passenger and controller-instructor.

As for the difficulty, I did "sim experience" flights during otherwise unused A320 simulator slots a while ago. Those were sold to the public and while some customers were avid flight simmers who got it as a treat from their loved ones, a good many were absolutely new to aviation (other than flying as a passenger). Most managed a survivable landing within their 20 minutes of flying (3 sharing a 1-hour slot) flying a manual ILS ILS with autothrust. I dare say that if you have the option to fly a coupled ILS chances for a survivable (if not reusable) landing are good, even without autoland. The main issue would be communication and remaining fuel to talk the newbie passenger-pilot through the required setup.

[Wetstart Dryrun]

Looking forward to reading the book, seeing the film.

[Euclideanplane]

Can they maybe talk Harrison Ford into taking a leading role? :E

[Luc Lion]

Unlikely for an emergency landing ; runway 10R is only 3214 feet long.
"CAUTION: Pilots are cautioned not to mistake Twy L for Rwys 10L-28 or 10R-28L"

[Sue Vêtements]

Of course, identifying such a person is going to require an interesting pa from the cabin crew .......

United 232 at Sioux City, though I think in this case Dennis Fitch identified himself, rather than was found through a PA announcement

[vegassun]

I'm pretty sure that a Caravan is still small enough that you could see the cockpit from the back row. Everyone that has any snap at all would know that something "ain't right" up front if the pilot is slumped over/falling out of the seat.

[Chiefttp]

Obba,

Your misinterpreting that photo. The Passinger is not a Student pilot, nor is the other person his instructor. It was meant in jest since the guy on the left was the tower operator who “instructed” the non pilot how to land the Caravan.

[hans brinker]

Obba,

Your misinterpreting that photo. The Passinger is not a Student pilot, nor is the other person his instructor. It was meant in jest since the guy on the left was the tower operator who “instructed” the non pilot how to land the Caravan.

But I do believe he was a flight instructor too

[Bellthorpe]

His RT was too professional not to have any piloting experience.

You think ? 10-4 ?

[john_tullamarine]

he was there because I knew nothing about the aircraft systems etc

I recall you and I doing something along those lines years ago at Essendon. Wx rough as guts, never been in one before, and you flew the bird like it was an early morning calm high pressure system. Best I could ever do with that Type was throw it ungracefully on the runway. I still shake my head occasionally when I think back to that project/flight.

I just wish more folks would have a bit more background on their profile

Gums, good sir, you can rest assured that zzuf is the real deal.

[zzuf]

Ahh JT, now don't spoil the illusion by posting pics of my hauling, a one engine inoperative, DC9 off the edge of the runway at Avalon to avoid the grass - during those crosswind, engine failure tests. But I think that I had one previous flight in the DC9 prior to that, so was miles in front. Learned how quickly things can become very limiting, with engine failures, around Vmcg with strong crosswinds.

[john_tullamarine]

Indeed, the runway width tests were interesting. I can still recall watching the video viewfinder from runway head with the Vmcg cuts (probably still have the tapes in the bottom of one of the archive cabinets) .... Diesel out to the left, out to the right, eventually where you were aiming to put it ... for those who haven't played with videos and 1000 mm lenses, it's fun. Conventional airline jock wisdom was that the Diesel was locked to the centreline. Guess no-one had had any Vmcg failures in training or on the line ?

Actually, I was going back to the Aztruck/Navajo target towing mod program ....

[etrang]

OTOH; there's a better probability of having someone else in the cabin with a close-to appropriate skillset.

Of course, identifying such a person is going to require an interesting pa from the cabin crew .......
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXpFznXb_vI

[oldpax]

Back in the early 90s I flew a lot with "Air Sunshine"in twin engined nine seaters.All but once I sat in the right hand seat for three hours over the Bahamas to Miami.
As ex RAF elect I recognised most of the controls and instruments but never had to do what the Caravan chap had to do!Could I do it?I would have a good chance!Oh before flight sim was available!Dis sit in the captains seat of a shack once while skipper went down the back!!

[25F]

There's two pilots who frequent my local watering hole. One flies high-performance piston singles, and the other twinjets for a LCC. One evening I asked them that if they swapped aircraft, who would crash first? IIRC both immediately said "me".

[hans brinker]

There's two pilots who frequent my local watering hole. One flies high-performance piston singles, and the other twinjets for a LCC. One evening I asked them that if they swapped aircraft, who would crash first? IIRC both immediately said "me".

Unlikely. because humble pilot :)

[exlatccatsa]

Juan Browne from the youtube blancolirio channel has done a couple of interesting videos on the subject. The Last one us the Tracon area controller and part time flying instructor who talked him down. I believe that today, Monday, he is doing a third interview and video with the pilot/passenger who landed the aircraft so hopefully we'll know more after that interview.

[ChrisJ800]

Here is Juan's interview with the ATC/Instructor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rad24e17_D8

[bluepost22]

Watched the interview with the controller.

The passenger/pilot asked "shouldn't we put flaps?" so they put in flaps but the pilot said the plane felt unsteady, didn't seem willing/able to trim it out, so they took out the flaps.

They pulled out the pilot's radio headset when they moved him out of the way, sounds like they damaged the connectors in the process.

The Garmin was black? How did that happen?

bluepost22

[eagleflyer]

Watched the interview with the controller.

The passenger/pilot asked "shouldn't we put flaps?" so they put in flaps but the pilot said the plane felt unsteady, didn't seem willing/able to trim it out, so they took out the flaps.

They pulled out the pilot's radio headset when they moved him out of the way, sounds like they damaged the connectors in the process.

The Garmin was black? How did that happen?

bluepost22
In the GA aircraft I know if you take the right-seat guy´s headset (I understand it remained plugged in) and try to talk pushing the pilot push-to-talk it would not work. So there´s a slight inconsistency in this part of the story.
Anyway, kudos to this guy (and/or the guy in the right seat) and the controller who talked him down. I regularly have problems talking down guys in more simple airplanes while sitting nest to them.

[meleagertoo]

I read elsewhere that the pilot-passenger says he "dragged the pilot out of his seat".
It is almost impossible to remove a pilot from a 737 seat if incapacitated, even with all the considerable space around. Having flown the Caravan extensively and knowing the houdini -like exercise it is to get a fully mobile person from front seats to cabin I thoroughly doubt this part of the story so for me it casts some doubt on the veracity of other details too.
He did well if he pulled off a flapless landing too, those things are quite reluctant to slow down and float forever landing flap up.

[ExRR]

I'm not a pilot. I've had one introductory lesson (no take off or landing, but approach) and spent many hours on Flight Simulator. But additionally I've been handed the controls quite a few times (various small Cessnas and an Islander). My friend who took me up in the Cessnas would involve me in all aspects, from basic checks prior to getting in the plane, changing frequencies, throttle/pitch control, flaps, flight maps/navigation etc. And of course I would pick up the radio terms. I don't think back in those days I would have had any problem maintaining flight, checking instruments and talking to someone on the radio. And whilst I would have been nervous I would hope that I could have got us onto the ground under guidance. With some basic knowledge it's not that hard if condtions are good and the aircraft is operating normally.

[threep]

Having watched this video on YouTube from the Mentor Pilot channel, it looks pretty convincing to me that the passenger with no flight experience did indeed land that Cessna Caravan
https://youtu.be/c-W2cnnLSTM

[magari]

I read elsewhere that the pilot-passenger says he "dragged the pilot out of his seat".
It is almost impossible to remove a pilot from a 737 seat if incapacitated, even with all the considerable space around. Having flown the Caravan extensively and knowing the houdini -like exercise it is to get a fully mobile person from front seats to cabin I thoroughly doubt this part of the story so for me it casts some doubt on the veracity of other details too.
He did well if he pulled off a flapless landing too, those things are quite reluctant to slow down and float forever landing flap up.

The guy is built. Looks like a bull. So the strength is definitely there to move the guy.