The blurred line - premium vs LCC

[rodney rude]

I've done quite a bit of travel recently, all on 737s/A320s and on the 4 main players - VA, QF, Rex and JQ. Like the thread, Will Australia ever have a good airline again, I'm wondering
at the blurred conceptions of air travel today.

There is almost NO distinction between these 4, I deliberately say almost.
1. VA
Check in on a machine
Go to bag drop
Get on 737 with just enough leg room for a 6 foot one man. Clean and tidy
In flight service is buy stuff or free coffee or water - no snacks
Got off and bag arrives in reasonable time
I get what I pay for - reasonably happy. I'm not sure where VA sees itself in the market now.

2. JQ.
Checked in at counter, bag taken
Get on A321 with just enough leg room for a 6 foot one man. Clean and tidy
In flight service was buy stuff. Not sure about other flights, but on this one, was not offered coffee or water or snack
Got off - waited too long for bag, bags arrived in dribs and drabs
I got what I paid for - reasonably happy. JQ does not pretend to be anything but what it is

3. Rex
Checked in at counter , bag taken
Got on 737. Just enough leg room for 6 foot man. Clean and tidy
In flight service - buy stuff. Free coffee and water and snack
Get off - usually short wait for bags
Fare wise - good value for what I get. Personally I think what they offer matches their (minimal) marketing

4. QF
Checked in at machine
Got on 737. Just enough leg room for 6 foot man. Clean and tidy
In flight service - buy stuff. Free coffee and water and snack. Last flight was 1130 to 1340, So a lunch time flight
Got off - nearly 30 minute wait for bag

So the point of all this - and I'm open for criticism here - QF I think still see themselves as a premium full service airline.
Reality suggests there is NOTHING that differentiates QF form the rest. Premium - not at all. Full service? Well maybe
that's open to one's definition of full service. But my 1130 to 1340, lunch time, flight would have been an ideal flight for some of that
"full service."

My point is actually not about the service, as long as you don't cancel my flight (again) and get me there near on time, I'm happy.
My point is about QF - it is not what they would like us all to believe. They are just another LCC that provides sweet FA.

And interestingly, I did a return Melb to Canberra recently. Up with VA, back with Rex. Rex gave the normal service. VA gave us a PA to
say that "due to the very short time length of this sector, there will be no inflight service." Sure.

[Gnadenburg]

Bring back Domestic First Class! Wasn’t that a treat? Lobster and Leeuwin Estate all the way to Perth from the East Coast. I suspect many of those who used this service in the 90’s have private jets these days.

Now a Byron Bay cookie differentiates full service and low cost.

[717tech]

You had to pay for your lunch time meal on QF? In my recent experience, the hot meal was (and always has been) free. However, calling it a meal is a stretch.

[Lookleft]

I have got to the point that if I have to pax home I would rather do it with Jetstar where at least I may know the crew than with QF. The very occasional business class seat is no longer an incentive. If you are paying for the ticket then just go for the cheapest. Even disruptions don't seem to be handled differently between the airlines.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

There is a lot more to what differentiates the airlines than just inflight experience, check-in and baggage waiting times. You need to consider; FF program, alliance partners, lounges, network, frequency (good for flight changes or disruptions), price, how they treat you when everything foes pear shaped etc. These all have a level of material value to consumers in different ways and proportions.

[KRviator]

Having travelled across the country regularly for work for the last 12 years, almost evenly split between QF & VA (pre-Bain), IMHO Virgin has a significantly better experience from a passenger's point of view. Cleaner lounges, cleaner aircraft, happier cabin crew, a nicer Business product, their own security lane going direct into the lounge, the only thing I didn't like was their lounges did not serve spirits (and really, if that's as bad as it gets, it's a pretty sad day!)

QF seems to be stuck in a 1980's time warp where they think "We are the best, we're #1" and they have no incentive to change, so they won't. They know they've got the Government contracts, they know if a corporation needs to fly their executives they'll choose them, so why bother doing anything different? But from a passengers view the Qantas Club is dated, you will get chastised if you dare to try to speak to a customer service agent upon checkin instead of using one of their machines, (because you know, you might have a query about your connection??) and a lot, but by no means all, of the cabin crew seem to be just 'going through the motions'. I fully understand their first job is safety, but when you are the de-facto face of the airline you need to act like it.

To me it now seems the only difference between a full service and LCC in Oz now is whether you have to pay for a hot meal on board - and let's face it, calling it a "meal" is a stretch. I don't think I've had anything except the cheese, crackers and a bottle of water on board - by choice mind you - in the last 5 years! Everything else is much the same for economy travellers - even QF now charge you to sit in the exit row whereas that was previously free.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Bus drivers up front, bus passengers down back. Funny, executives and shareholders do OK though.

[PoppaJo]

I don’t work for Virgin and I use them frequently over using my own mob. I value Economy X, especially being over 6ft. Being a platinum member I get free X, lounge access, a whole heap of bonus points, and generally the service to Platinum members is top notch. If things go wrong, generally they have a big network to route me via somewhere else to get me to the destination. I was impressed with how they handled some flights which got cancelled, I was not impressed how I was handled via my own employer.

US domestic is much the same now with free drinks and nuts, however purchase food. I wouldn’t even feed my dog half the slop that is put up as ‘hot meals’ these days down back.

[brokenagain]

Virgin has had a better ‘feel’ as a customer vs the competitor for many years now.

[cLeArIcE]

I have got to the point that if I have to pax home I would rather do it with Jetstar where at least I may know the crew than with QF. The very occasional business class seat is no longer an incentive. If you are paying for the ticket then just go for the cheapest. Even disruptions don't seem to be handled differently between the airlines.
Whilst I agree with you, the clientele is certainly different. Whilst you can get annoying pax on any flight, it's less likely on QF to have Barry and Betty getting on the JB and Coke whilst their feral offspring run amuck through the cabin. But paxing is the absolute worst part of the job these days.

[Lapon]

You are correct in your observation, about the only difference I can think of is the 'full service' carriers tend to have better schedules, and the appetite to get you on your way again if you're flight is cancelled or connection missed.

Other than that you might as well go with the cheapest option as a cookie and wifi is not worth the cost.

I also question the difference between business and economy these days beyond the larger seat.
I mean, is a toasted sandwich and glass of wine worth the extra cost?

[compressor stall]

Try short haul business in Europe. I flew BA business recently ex LHR to the continent. A319 Row 2. Economy seats / pitch, and a pulldown out of the middle seat upright cushion as a kind of table. Hot breakfast though was the differentiator, if you could call it that.

[unobtanium]

Qantas is an invite only boys club that happens to fly passenger's around.

[gordonfvckingramsay]

“Facade-ism” is a term I use for airlines nowadays.

Talk local - send work overseas
Talk service - provide a (generally) crappy service
Talk safety - gut engineering, training, morale, experience etc…
Talk inclusiveness - sh!t on your workers while eating cake

Its a facade designed to make the travelling public think they are flying a local, full service, safe and woke airline when there are really flying the opposite.

[redsnail]

Compressor Stall, agreed. European business class is really a joke.

[DUXNUTZ]

Disagree. Flew Qantas over Easter and was quite impressed. Friendly check-in, girls handing out water/Easter eggs/masks in the terminal, free on board wifi, food and wine.

Virgin was late, only snacks for sale, crew ambivalent.

Small sample size but since I used to work for VA I was actually impressed with QF. I don’t think Virgin know what it wants to be either.

[Trevor the lover]

Your flight was clearly not one of the sh!tloads of flights QF cancelled over Easter. “Virgin was late” - are you really suggesting all the QF flights were on time??? Delusional! But it sounds like a chokky egg would have made it all better for you. You’re easily bought.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

I don’t work for Virgin and I use them frequently over using my own mob. I value Economy X, especially being over 6ft. Being a platinum member I get free X, lounge access, a whole heap of bonus points, and generally the service to Platinum members is top notch. If things go wrong, generally they have a big network to route me via somewhere else to get me to the destination. I was impressed with how they handled some flights which got cancelled, I was not impressed how I was handled via my own employer.

You can't beat VA row 3... Most legroom I've ever seen...

[I wish]

Now a Byron Bay cookie differentiates full service and low cost.

Make it a Nimbin cookie and we wouldn't care.

[sunnySA]

Australian airlines will bring back old rules on domestic flights from May 1, canning the current luxury of free flight credits and date changes introduced during the pandemic.The extra protections were introduced by Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin as a result of the huge number of people missing flights due to COVID-19's unpredictible (sic) spread during the last two years. From Sunday, airlines will re-implement the old rules, meaning free credits and day changes on all flights will be gone.

Ben Mead, a travel agent and managing director of Holidays of Australia & The World, said it was time for "buyers beware", but said he was thankful for the pandemic considerations."Credit to the airlines, they've met market conditions and having that flexibility has been incredibly important for the recovery of tourism and getting people back on planes," he said.

Really, there should be continued flexibility without paying a HUGE surcharge.

[KRviator]

Simples.

Don't do any tests and you don't have Covid. If you don't have Covid, you don't have to isolate. If you don't have to isolate, you can still travel. Just ask El Presidente'!

[DUXNUTZ]

Your flight was clearly not one of the sh!tloads of flights QF cancelled over Easter. “Virgin was late” - are you really suggesting all the QF flights were on time??? Delusional! But it sounds like a chokky egg would have made it all better for you. You’re easily bought.

ok. Douchebag I said small sample size.

[Ollie Onion]

I actually prefer Airlines that run Airbus as the economy seats feel more roomy than the 737. Qantas 737 has 17.2in width and 30in pitch, where as Jetstar has 17.9in width and 29.2in pitch, the fact that the premium carrier has a narrower seat backs up you claim there is no difference. I find the 737 economy seats extremely uncomfortable which is of course just an opinion, have always found Virgin and Air NZ service very good but only marginally better than Qantas and Jetstar. Check in experiences very similar…… overall I would just buy the cheapest ticket as none of the local airlines have any massive point of difference.

[ScepticalOptomist]

I prefer to work for the premium one. :ok:

[PoppaJo]

737 is a very shoulder to shoulder like experience, the rule is you are generally more comfortable with your neighbours in a 737 vs a A320. Especially toward the rear. I always feel like I am squeezing myself to fit in any way I move around whether entering, seated, bathroom. Flight Deck isn't much better, A320 you can even mod Airbus for 2 Jumpseats, 737 feels like it can barely cope with the one.

[C441]

Domestic - not much difference depending upon the route; and that's more a clientele issue. Between east coast capitals there's almost nothing in it.
International - Premium please, especially in the front quarter of the jet.

[Stationair8]

Qantas- domestic can be a lottery from checking in to what you fly on.
Dash8 always comfortable out to Lord Howe,
Dash8-400 overgrown Metro, never seem to get a departure time that matches your scheduled one,
B717 great aeroplane to fly in, but crews are paid a pittance,
B737 getting tired, squeezy down the back.

Jetstar- the greyhound bus, okay for point to point travel.

Known clientele, just travel wearing your best flannelette shirt and front teeth in.

Virgin- good product, flown 8 sectors with them over the last few weeks.
Pretty squeezy down the back.

Before the prune experts jump in, I have flown an average 8-10 sectors domestically over the last 35 years.
That includes Australian Airlines, Ansett, Impulse, East-West, Airnorth, Jetstar, Qantas domestic and the foreigners during 1989.

[rodney rude]

Gday Station
When you say Virgin, good product. What is good? When you offer not even a snack, just free water and coffee, all you can offer that is good is OTP.
To me they are no better, no worse than the rest. They are all the same, just Virgin and JQ don't give you a bickie.

I waited 30 minutes for my bag on Virgin flight yesterday. What gave me the ****s was not the actual wait, but WHY the wait - because of the outsourcing
of everything to third parties offering **** pay and conditions so always chronically understaffed - it's the deterioration of the airlines that ****s me.

But its not isolated to airlines - tried to talk to the ATO today, no matter what "press 1, 2 or 3" I pressed, everything just tried to take me to their website. No-one will
talk to you

Crap service is now the Aussie norm.

[Stationair8]

Rodney, Virgin was just the usual free tea, coffee or water, but could purchase food and grog.
I had carryon baggage, no delay on arrival-but have had the 30 minute wait for baggage last time I flew.

[KRviator]

Gday Station
When you say Virgin, good product. What is good? When you offer not even a snack, just free water and coffee, all you can offer that is good is OTP.
To me they are no better, no worse than the rest. They are all the same, just Virgin and JQ don't give you a bickie.The single best thing about Virgin for me as a Platinum FF was the free Economy X seat selection, closely followed by the dedicated screening lane into their lounge at Sydney. That being said, I haven't flown Virgin since Bain took over so cannot comment if either of those remain, and my Platinum with them runs out in a few weeks and I've no intention of renewing it now work flies me QF both ways.

Qantas don't have anything comparable to Economy X on their domestic services, so the best a Platinum flier can achieve is the front row of Economy, or hope for a Business upgrade if they've oversold cattle class.

[rodney rude]

Station, yeah I have to say, of all the flying Ive done lately, Virgins on time performance is pretty good. And I guess
that is important because with not much else on offer, at least getting me there without delay is good. Just want to reiterate,
the thread started as not who is the best, more that QF tries to flog itself off as premium when their inflight experience is LCC.

[nivsy]

Interesting here in WA. Just flown two sectors with Qantas Link on A320. Usual use machine and get and tag own bag (,somehow I still object to having to do everything) , then onboard the in flight service (mid morning) was a cookie and tea or coffee. The return around noon was also cookie and soft drinks or tea or coffee. Not even a beer! Route was about two hours flying between Perth and Learmonth return. No priority boarding at Perth for One World elites just generally like a LCC, well except the cost which was just shy of a staggering 800 dollars (return).