The blurred line - premium vs LCC
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The blurred line - premium vs LCC
I've done quite a bit of travel recently, all on 737s/A320s and on the 4 main players - VA, QF, Rex and JQ. Like the thread, Will Australia ever have a good airline again, I'm wondering
at the blurred conceptions of air travel today.
There is almost NO distinction between these 4, I deliberately say almost.
1. VA
Check in on a machine
Go to bag drop
Get on 737 with just enough leg room for a 6 foot one man. Clean and tidy
In flight service is buy stuff or free coffee or water - no snacks
Got off and bag arrives in reasonable time
I get what I pay for - reasonably happy. I'm not sure where VA sees itself in the market now.
2. JQ.
Checked in at counter, bag taken
Get on A321 with just enough leg room for a 6 foot one man. Clean and tidy
In flight service was buy stuff. Not sure about other flights, but on this one, was not offered coffee or water or snack
Got off - waited too long for bag, bags arrived in dribs and drabs
I got what I paid for - reasonably happy. JQ does not pretend to be anything but what it is
3. Rex
Checked in at counter , bag taken
Got on 737. Just enough leg room for 6 foot man. Clean and tidy
In flight service - buy stuff. Free coffee and water and snack
Get off - usually short wait for bags
Fare wise - good value for what I get. Personally I think what they offer matches their (minimal) marketing
4. QF
Checked in at machine
Got on 737. Just enough leg room for 6 foot man. Clean and tidy
In flight service - buy stuff. Free coffee and water and snack. Last flight was 1130 to 1340, So a lunch time flight
Got off - nearly 30 minute wait for bag
So the point of all this - and I'm open for criticism here - QF I think still see themselves as a premium full service airline.
Reality suggests there is NOTHING that differentiates QF form the rest. Premium - not at all. Full service? Well maybe
that's open to one's definition of full service. But my 1130 to 1340, lunch time, flight would have been an ideal flight for some of that
"full service."
My point is actually not about the service, as long as you don't cancel my flight (again) and get me there near on time, I'm happy.
My point is about QF - it is not what they would like us all to believe. They are just another LCC that provides sweet FA.
And interestingly, I did a return Melb to Canberra recently. Up with VA, back with Rex. Rex gave the normal service. VA gave us a PA to
say that "due to the very short time length of this sector, there will be no inflight service." Sure.
at the blurred conceptions of air travel today.
There is almost NO distinction between these 4, I deliberately say almost.
1. VA
Check in on a machine
Go to bag drop
Get on 737 with just enough leg room for a 6 foot one man. Clean and tidy
In flight service is buy stuff or free coffee or water - no snacks
Got off and bag arrives in reasonable time
I get what I pay for - reasonably happy. I'm not sure where VA sees itself in the market now.
2. JQ.
Checked in at counter, bag taken
Get on A321 with just enough leg room for a 6 foot one man. Clean and tidy
In flight service was buy stuff. Not sure about other flights, but on this one, was not offered coffee or water or snack
Got off - waited too long for bag, bags arrived in dribs and drabs
I got what I paid for - reasonably happy. JQ does not pretend to be anything but what it is
3. Rex
Checked in at counter , bag taken
Got on 737. Just enough leg room for 6 foot man. Clean and tidy
In flight service - buy stuff. Free coffee and water and snack
Get off - usually short wait for bags
Fare wise - good value for what I get. Personally I think what they offer matches their (minimal) marketing
4. QF
Checked in at machine
Got on 737. Just enough leg room for 6 foot man. Clean and tidy
In flight service - buy stuff. Free coffee and water and snack. Last flight was 1130 to 1340, So a lunch time flight
Got off - nearly 30 minute wait for bag
So the point of all this - and I'm open for criticism here - QF I think still see themselves as a premium full service airline.
Reality suggests there is NOTHING that differentiates QF form the rest. Premium - not at all. Full service? Well maybe
that's open to one's definition of full service. But my 1130 to 1340, lunch time, flight would have been an ideal flight for some of that
"full service."
My point is actually not about the service, as long as you don't cancel my flight (again) and get me there near on time, I'm happy.
My point is about QF - it is not what they would like us all to believe. They are just another LCC that provides sweet FA.
And interestingly, I did a return Melb to Canberra recently. Up with VA, back with Rex. Rex gave the normal service. VA gave us a PA to
say that "due to the very short time length of this sector, there will be no inflight service." Sure.
Bring back Domestic First Class! Wasn’t that a treat? Lobster and Leeuwin Estate all the way to Perth from the East Coast. I suspect many of those who used this service in the 90’s have private jets these days.
Now a Byron Bay cookie differentiates full service and low cost.
Now a Byron Bay cookie differentiates full service and low cost.
I have got to the point that if I have to pax home I would rather do it with Jetstar where at least I may know the crew than with QF. The very occasional business class seat is no longer an incentive. If you are paying for the ticket then just go for the cheapest. Even disruptions don't seem to be handled differently between the airlines.
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There is a lot more to what differentiates the airlines than just inflight experience, check-in and baggage waiting times. You need to consider; FF program, alliance partners, lounges, network, frequency (good for flight changes or disruptions), price, how they treat you when everything foes pear shaped etc. These all have a level of material value to consumers in different ways and proportions.
Having travelled across the country regularly for work for the last 12 years, almost evenly split between QF & VA (pre-Bain), IMHO Virgin has a significantly better experience from a passenger's point of view. Cleaner lounges, cleaner aircraft, happier cabin crew, a nicer Business product, their own security lane going direct into the lounge, the only thing I didn't like was their lounges did not serve spirits (and really, if that's as bad as it gets, it's a pretty sad day!)
QF seems to be stuck in a 1980's time warp where they think "We are the best, we're #1" and they have no incentive to change, so they won't. They know they've got the Government contracts, they know if a corporation needs to fly their executives they'll choose them, so why bother doing anything different? But from a passengers view the Qantas Club is dated, you will get chastised if you dare to try to speak to a customer service agent upon checkin instead of using one of their machines, (because you know, you might have a query about your connection??) and a lot, but by no means all, of the cabin crew seem to be just 'going through the motions'. I fully understand their first job is safety, but when you are the de-facto face of the airline you need to act like it.
To me it now seems the only difference between a full service and LCC in Oz now is whether you have to pay for a hot meal on board - and let's face it, calling it a "meal" is a stretch. I don't think I've had anything except the cheese, crackers and a bottle of water on board - by choice mind you - in the last 5 years! Everything else is much the same for economy travellers - even QF now charge you to sit in the exit row whereas that was previously free.
QF seems to be stuck in a 1980's time warp where they think "We are the best, we're #1" and they have no incentive to change, so they won't. They know they've got the Government contracts, they know if a corporation needs to fly their executives they'll choose them, so why bother doing anything different? But from a passengers view the Qantas Club is dated, you will get chastised if you dare to try to speak to a customer service agent upon checkin instead of using one of their machines, (because you know, you might have a query about your connection??) and a lot, but by no means all, of the cabin crew seem to be just 'going through the motions'. I fully understand their first job is safety, but when you are the de-facto face of the airline you need to act like it.
To me it now seems the only difference between a full service and LCC in Oz now is whether you have to pay for a hot meal on board - and let's face it, calling it a "meal" is a stretch. I don't think I've had anything except the cheese, crackers and a bottle of water on board - by choice mind you - in the last 5 years! Everything else is much the same for economy travellers - even QF now charge you to sit in the exit row whereas that was previously free.
I don’t work for Virgin and I use them frequently over using my own mob. I value Economy X, especially being over 6ft. Being a platinum member I get free X, lounge access, a whole heap of bonus points, and generally the service to Platinum members is top notch. If things go wrong, generally they have a big network to route me via somewhere else to get me to the destination. I was impressed with how they handled some flights which got cancelled, I was not impressed how I was handled via my own employer.
US domestic is much the same now with free drinks and nuts, however purchase food. I wouldn’t even feed my dog half the slop that is put up as ‘hot meals’ these days down back.
US domestic is much the same now with free drinks and nuts, however purchase food. I wouldn’t even feed my dog half the slop that is put up as ‘hot meals’ these days down back.
Virgin has had a better ‘feel’ as a customer vs the competitor for many years now.
I have got to the point that if I have to pax home I would rather do it with Jetstar where at least I may know the crew than with QF. The very occasional business class seat is no longer an incentive. If you are paying for the ticket then just go for the cheapest. Even disruptions don't seem to be handled differently between the airlines.
You are correct in your observation, about the only difference I can think of is the 'full service' carriers tend to have better schedules, and the appetite to get you on your way again if you're flight is cancelled or connection missed.
Other than that you might as well go with the cheapest option as a cookie and wifi is not worth the cost.
I also question the difference between business and economy these days beyond the larger seat.
I mean, is a toasted sandwich and glass of wine worth the extra cost?
Other than that you might as well go with the cheapest option as a cookie and wifi is not worth the cost.
I also question the difference between business and economy these days beyond the larger seat.
I mean, is a toasted sandwich and glass of wine worth the extra cost?
Try short haul business in Europe. I flew BA business recently ex LHR to the continent. A319 Row 2. Economy seats / pitch, and a pulldown out of the middle seat upright cushion as a kind of table. Hot breakfast though was the differentiator, if you could call it that.
“Facade-ism” is a term I use for airlines nowadays.
Talk local - send work overseas
Talk service - provide a (generally) crappy service
Talk safety - gut engineering, training, morale, experience etc…
Talk inclusiveness - sh!t on your workers while eating cake
Its a facade designed to make the travelling public think they are flying a local, full service, safe and woke airline when there are really flying the opposite.
Talk local - send work overseas
Talk service - provide a (generally) crappy service
Talk safety - gut engineering, training, morale, experience etc…
Talk inclusiveness - sh!t on your workers while eating cake
Its a facade designed to make the travelling public think they are flying a local, full service, safe and woke airline when there are really flying the opposite.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Compressor Stall, agreed. European business class is really a joke.
Disagree. Flew Qantas over Easter and was quite impressed. Friendly check-in, girls handing out water/Easter eggs/masks in the terminal, free on board wifi, food and wine.
Virgin was late, only snacks for sale, crew ambivalent.
Small sample size but since I used to work for VA I was actually impressed with QF. I don’t think Virgin know what it wants to be either.
Virgin was late, only snacks for sale, crew ambivalent.
Small sample size but since I used to work for VA I was actually impressed with QF. I don’t think Virgin know what it wants to be either.
Your flight was clearly not one of the sh!tloads of flights QF cancelled over Easter. “Virgin was late” - are you really suggesting all the QF flights were on time??? Delusional! But it sounds like a chokky egg would have made it all better for you. You’re easily bought.
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I don’t work for Virgin and I use them frequently over using my own mob. I value Economy X, especially being over 6ft. Being a platinum member I get free X, lounge access, a whole heap of bonus points, and generally the service to Platinum members is top notch. If things go wrong, generally they have a big network to route me via somewhere else to get me to the destination. I was impressed with how they handled some flights which got cancelled, I was not impressed how I was handled via my own employer.
from 9news
Australian airlines will bring back old rules on domestic flights from May 1, canning the current luxury of free flight credits and date changes introduced during the pandemic.The extra protections were introduced by Qantas, Jetstar and Virgin as a result of the huge number of people missing flights due to COVID-19's unpredictible (sic) spread during the last two years. From Sunday, airlines will re-implement the old rules, meaning free credits and day changes on all flights will be gone.
Ben Mead, a travel agent and managing director of Holidays of Australia & The World, said it was time for "buyers beware", but said he was thankful for the pandemic considerations."Credit to the airlines, they've met market conditions and having that flexibility has been incredibly important for the recovery of tourism and getting people back on planes," he said.
Ben Mead, a travel agent and managing director of Holidays of Australia & The World, said it was time for "buyers beware", but said he was thankful for the pandemic considerations."Credit to the airlines, they've met market conditions and having that flexibility has been incredibly important for the recovery of tourism and getting people back on planes," he said.