Direct entry command.

[RAT Management]

In an answer to the impending shortage of pilots that Hong Kong will face when the wonderful government consider it safe to open up to the rest of the dirty infected world. A plan is in place to offer DEC contracts aimed at ex CX commanders who might be lured back to Hong Kong for another stint. Remuneration is an all inclusive monthly payment, that supposedly covers housing /medical etc.

[PercyP]

For a second there I thought it must have been 1 April. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that it was almost a month ago!

[HKG_Refugee]

The price tag for me to EVER walk in to CX CIty again....it would have to be over a hundred thousand US a month... in my off shore account. Won't HAPPEN.

[Oasis]

They could have just offered unpaid leave in the first place, next think you'll know is that they will offer bases again.

Or commuting contracts, or part time.

All fairly cheap ways to solve their problem, but they will probably just throw money at it instead, since they are a 'hong kong airline'

[cxflog]

The price tag for me to EVER walk in to CX CIty again....it would have to be over a hundred thousand US a month... in my off shore account. Won't HAPPEN.
I think this sentiment will be shared by many. CX has left a sour taste in a lot of their ex-employees mouths.

[Sam Ting Wong]

They could have just offered unpaid leave in the first place, next think you'll know is that they will offer bases again.

Or commuting contracts, or part time.

All fairly cheap ways to solve their problem, but they will probably just throw money at it instead, since they are a 'hong kong airline'

Bases are not cheap anymore and will never come back. Neither will Cathay ever offer part time or (real, workable) commuter contracts.

[Rie]

DEC offers will just push the exodus further from the FO pool. Fellow countrymen are leaving for Doha and back to Blighty for LCC flying. There are several Austronauts going back to Dash 8's, the Americans are going to Atlas others are just leaving Aviation. CX has left a sour taste in everyone's mouth. After over a decade of slavery for many of these gents time has come to depart no matter what.

[Oasis]

Bases are not cheap anymore and will never come back. Neither will Cathay ever offer part time or (real, workable) commuter contracts.

I think the current outflow of talent is less sustainable than bases or part time rostering.

But I'm sure someone has to save face on the 3rd floor.

[Oasis]

DEC offers will just push the exodus further from the FO pool. Fellow countrymen are leaving for Doha and back to Blighty for LCC flying. There are several Austronauts going back to Dash 8's, the Americans are going to Atlas others are just leaving Aviation. CX has left a sour taste in everyone's mouth. After over a decade of slavery for many of these gents time has come to depart no matter what.


Saw information 300 plus CX crew had passed stage one of the interview in Doha, not everyone will be going, but that's a lot.

[Rie]

Saw information 300 plus CX crew had passed stage one of the interview in Doha, not everyone will be going, but that's a lot.

Stage one is only scratching the surface. Just waiting until you see everyone at check in heading for the real interviews, most will pass given how desperate QR have become for bodies. You would have to have lost your marbles to go to Doha any other time but right now it makes sense for many.

I've heard that it's not just CX haemorrhaging right now. UO are also going to have major issues maintaining crew. Russians having to make hard choices given the current situation and supposedly at least half of the crew working for other companies during their unpaid leave.

[pfvspnf]

Need to start pay to fly for all cadet pilot , $160k USD is good price to charge , then Western Capt can also be paid the increase . Very safe very good for business

[Sam Ting Wong]

This is a red herring, no significant number of Cathay pilots will leave and go to Qatar (unfortunately). Terrible place to live and work.

[Piet Lood]

This is a red herring, no significant number of Cathay pilots will leave and go to Qatar (unfortunately). Terrible place to live and work.
How do you know?

[Sam Ting Wong]

Less money for more work under an evil management requiring to live in a hostile culture in a place that is basically inhabitable for 8 months per year and boring for 12 months, all with no chance of commuting.

Let's call it an educated guess ;-)

[pill]

STW is all over it. They are can’ts. And then they fire you. Hardly an industry secrets.

[Piet Lood]

Less money for more work under an evil management requiring to live in a hostile culture in a place that is basically inhabitable for 8 months per year and boring for 12 months, all with no chance of commuting.

Let's call it an educated guess ;-)

*Less money: nope!
*More work: depends on the fleet, but generally you’re right (747 being the exception).
*Evil management: you mean like cx?
*Hostile culture: you mean like China?
*No chance of commuting: you mean like Hong Kong?

A guess? Yes! Educated? Hardly!

[Sam Ting Wong]

Come on Piet, it takes about 2 minutes to look up the salary and average block hours at Qatar. Really?

If you believe living conditions, commuting potential and management are the same, it is your opinion, fair enough. But I am very sure you are in a minority position here. You will see, there will be no significant outflow to Qatar from Cathay. Want to bet?

[Piet Lood]

Come on Piet, it takes about 2 minutes to look up the salary and average block hours at Qatar. Really?

If you believe living conditions, commuting potential and management are the same, it is your opinion, fair enough. But I am very sure you are in a minority position here. You will see, there will be no significant flow to Qatar to Cathay. Want to bet?

My mate is making more money than I was in cx AFTER tax and the disparity will be even greater after your ARAP expires, so you keep up your google info. He also flies the 747 and his roster is an average of 55-60 hours a month, but again: google probably knows better.

Commuting out of HKG has been pretty much impossible in the previous 2 years and will probably be for quite some time, unless you dismiss your 2 weeks of quarantaine and count that as your holiday.
My friend travels home at least once a month.

You always seem to know better, don’t you STW!
I don’t think many will cross over from cx to qr, but I am merely correcting your google info and give you some more informed information.

By the way, I hope you noticed I didn’t correct your statement about Doha being unliveable and boring and hence comparing cx and qr and HKG and DOH is apples and oranges.
Some of your “opinions” however are not based on facts, hence my interjection.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Almost every statement starting with "a friend of mine" is BS. Check the salary scale of captains in Qatar. Its not comparable to Cathay and you know it. There is also no way you can commute home once a month at Qatar.

Of course right now CX is almost unbearable. But most people will make career choices long term, that is my argument here.

Again, the whole point is there will be no significant outflow to Qatar. Unfortunately.

Don't shoot the messenger, it's not my fault there are way worse places than CX. Your anger is projected, as usual.

[Piet Lood]

Almost every statement starting with "a friend of mine" is BS. Check the salary scale of captains in Qatar. Its not comparable to Cathay and you know it.

Again, the whole point is there will be no significant outflow to Qatar. Unfortunately.

Don't shoot the messenger, it's not my fault there are way worse places than CX. You anger is projected, as usual.

Mate, believe what you want. I’ve seen his rosters AND his payslips.
I’ve also visited him in Doha and I concur: it IS most definitely a ****ty place to live in.
The only reason he manages to live there: $$$.

Do you care to comment on my statement about your ability to commute from HKG or would you rather dismiss this with your typical arrogance?
The difference between you and I: I acknowledge when you get one right. You seem to be unable to.
And most definitely you are unable to acknowledge anything you might have gotten wrong.
No wonder you feel so at home and comfy in cx.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Commute to where? Within Asia, to Australia/Oz? Of course much better at Cathay. Again, naturally not at the moment. To Europe hard / borderline insane at Cathay ( in my opinion anyway) but IMPOSSIBLE at Qatar. Forget it, thousands have tried and failed. You can't commute from any gulf airline to anywhere, period ( maybe India?) Not even SA. If you doubt that there is no point to argue, we just have to leave it there.

[Piet Lood]

Commute to where? Within Asia, to Australia/Oz? Of course much better at Cathay. Again, naturally not at the moment. To Europe hard / borderline insane at Cathay ( in my opinion anyway) but IMPOSSIBLE at Qatar. Forget it, thousands have tried and failed. You can't commute from any gulf airline to anywhere, period ( maybe India?) Not even SA. If you doubt that there is no point to argue, we just have to leave it there.

The reason there is no point to argue WITH YOU is that in the face of ALL the evidence to the contrary, you will maintain that YOU are right and everyone else must be wrong.
I told you my friend is commuting and you say “IMPOSSIBLE”.
I told you my friend is making more money than I was in cx (after tax) and you say “IMPOSSIBLE”.
I told you my friend is flying less hours than his counterpart in cx and you say “IMPOSSIBLE”.

“Not at the moment” meaning how long?
Before the pandemic my friend was able to commute much more often (to Europe) than he is now, but you want to compare the best commuting days of cx with the worst commuting days at qr.
That way either of us can win ANY argument.

Bottom line: many of your initial statements and comparisons were not based in fact, ie WRONG.
Some were.

They might have been correct in the past and might be again in the future, but my friend in qr is seeing his family at least once a month (not enough in my book).
My friend in cx hasn’t seen his family in over a year.
But yes: STW WILL maintain that commuting options are much better in cx (just not right now….🤦🏼‍♂️).

Edit: I forgot to mention: my friend (I know, I know) lives in a 4 bedroom villa in a compound with a nice pool and gym, which he pays for with his housing allowance (not sure if your google document mentions that, because apparently not everyone qualifies for that).
He doesn’t have to live that luxurious, he could also downsize and pocket the housing allowance he’s not using. Try that in cx. Oh, I forgot, ARAPA is dead anyway.

[woke2022]

Well we all agree that middle east is replacing rotten apple with rotten bananas.
Whats interesting is the 400 odd Australian CX pilots conducting testing for Qantas. Even if only 50% made it through then it would be surprising if none took it
and the large number of guys going to Atlas and E3 sponsoring regionals in the USA on a weekly basis....

[KABOY]

Regardless, CX is losing pilots at a rapid rate and l’m sure most don’t care about the money anymore.

It’s more about the hostile management, archaic government and the loss of liberties under the watchful eye of the CCP.

So, what is the price of that? I’m fairly sure as a European, QR would be a lot better to see your family occasionally.

[Sam Ting Wong]

There is one pilot of 3000 in Qatar who is able to commute ( by coincidence a good mate of Piet). The rest are either flying a 100 block to India back and forth or sitting in a mall at Starbucks and wondering what went wrong in their lives.

But sure, if you want to escape hostile management, archaic government and loss of liberties, there is no better place than Qatar.

[KABOY]

There is one pilot of 3000 in Qatar who is able to commute ( by coincidence a good mate of Piet). The rest are either flying a 100 block to India back and forth or sitting in a mall at Starbucks and wondering what went wrong in their lives.

Are these your mates STW? You criticise Piet, but then you create a scenario based upon?

People have moved beyond STW, it appears you have a problem with that?

I hear EK have restored all the pre covid contracts to those they terminated, can’t see that happening at CX.

[Oasis]

I hear EK have restored all the pre covid contracts to those they terminated, can’t see that happening at CX.

They will have to, market forces. 800 Cadets will not change that, but they are still comfortable in sticking their head in the sand at the moment. Wait till flights are cancelled due to insufficient crew. Money will start to flap all over the place.

[Cury Lamb]

This entire debate is based on the assumption that CXi is going to survive and thrive - which I very much doubt.

Some possible scenarios are:

CXi goes t.ts up (no more Govt money, sorry);
Gets absorbed by another airline (locals only);
Goes all out LCC (certainly heading that way).


One fact is clear: with a 5 BILLION USD loan to repay at 9% interest in 3 years from now, the company will not get into the black for a very very long time to come.

To me that means no future bonus, no pay rises (ever), but instead more and more erosion of current conditions, history just repeating itself.

Time to log off, clock off, and f… off

[Oasis]

This entire debate is based on the assumption that CXi is going to survive and thrive - which I very much doubt.

Sone possible scenarios are:

CXi goes t.ts up (no more Govt money, sorry);
Gets absorbed by another airline (locals only);
Goes all out LCC (certainly heading that way).


One fact is clear: with a 5 BILLION USD loan to repay at 9% interest in 3 years from now, the company will not get into the black for a very very long time to come.

To me that means no future bonus, no pay rises (ever), but instead more and more erosion of current conditions, history just repeating itself.

Time to log off, clock off, and f… off

Aircrew pay is a fraction of the total operating cost. Can’t run an airline without pilots, yet..
need that hardship money to attract expats, lots of it.
same with other industries in Hong Kong.

ofcourse predicated of if it survives.

[Piet Lood]

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/824x714/7a2111ab_2d07_4ba5_b383_ec26494b24cd_032a30e2acb809e955076dd 35cc31fc8cf92242d.jpeg

[Sam Ting Wong]

Ok, Piet, I bite.

Define commuting.

[Oasis]

How long is a piece of string?

[Sam Ting Wong]

About 3-5 days a month when you work for Qatar. Maybe, if you are lucky. Ridiculous.

[Piet Lood]

Which, again, is more than you can do in cx right now.
Ridiculous indeed.
From Merriam-Webster:



https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/827x972/d2cc3ac2_e597_4f3a_a037_05b00e270f0b_8886adba24d175cbdc6aa87 9519c1c2999ceeeae.jpeg
I reckon you will now start to argue that flying back to your family once a year is also considered “regularly” and that hence commuting options at qr and cx are the same.
Or that my friend isn’t really commuting, since he is not travelling between a suburb and a city.
I feel foolish arguing with you, but I can’t help it.
It’s stronger than myself and I DO get off rubbing your face in your own stupidity and arrogance.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Of course anything is better than the current state at Cathay. I would never argue with that. If you assume the status quo will continue, you are right. How likely is that?

Piet, you are dishonest. You know very well that commuting at Qatar is impossible.

[Piet Lood]

I give up. Bill Murray is right.

[Sam Ting Wong]

Piet, cool down, I come in peace. We are all in the same boat.

QR is ( unfortunately) no better alternative to CX.

https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/646435-can-you-commute-europe-qr.html#post11223164

[Piet Lood]

Ah the famous “username taken” has given you an answer on pprune.
I’m convinced now and stand corrected.
I’ll tell my friend he’s full of ****!

(I’ll also tell my cx friend that he’s full of **** too and that him not seeing his family for a year plus isn’t any worse than qr’s situation).

Do you honestly ever self reflect and read your own drivel?

[Oasis]

Can you ladies please stop swinging your handbags at each other?

[BuzzBox]

Can you ladies please stop swinging your handbags at each other?

Oh, come now. I find it quite entertaining. 🥳🍿

[Oasis]

Sorry, you’re right; proceed..

[ToCatLady]

Honestly, the sooner you two sh*g each other the better for everyone on Fragrant Harbour!

[cxflog]

Honestly, the sooner you two sh*g each other the better for everyone on Fragrant Harbour!
Hear hear! It is good fun to read though

[Koan]

Pandemic made me aware of a few things. I don't really need the dosh and month on month (or three) off is the best possible schedule. I'd commute just about anywhere or return to flying turboprop hub turns permanently like 27 years ago to continue same schedule

[deja vu]

Piet, cool down, I come in peace. We are all in the same boat.

QR is ( unfortunately) no better alternative to CX.

https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/646435-can-you-commute-europe-qr.html#post11223164
If you are not interested in QR why don't you STFU.? Get a hobby FCOL.

[HKG_Refugee]

Does QR operate a normal amount of flights? Y
Does QR operate at a profit? Y
Will QR be here in 12 months? Y

You can't answer Yes to any of those about CX.

QR isn't a bad move. Staying in HK on 'HOPE' is the absurd.

[Papa123]

So POSITIVE fac. When does your life return to “normal”? No longer under the yoke of CX/HK gov senseless rules. You operate like a professional and the company treats you as such - not like a coolie willing to do anything for a bowl of soup. Oh, maybe convinced it’s all well and good.

[Rie]

Does QR operate at a profit? Y


Is Qatar profitable? No... and it never will be. What do you expect from a place that is propped up by the government. They lose massive amounts every year like the rest of the GCC.

Is it a nightmare? Yes... Just ask any of the CX guys that have left and regret it. The place is horrible for all workers, barely a single sensible person has a good word to say about the company

[Fac6]

So POSITIVE fac. When does your life return to “normal”? No longer under the yoke of CX/HK gov senseless rules. You operate like a professional and the company treats you as such - not like a coolie willing to do anything for a bowl of soup. Oh, maybe convinced it’s all well and good.

I left CX back in Dec 2021. Have you?

[HKG_Refugee]

Is Qatar profitable? No... and it never will be. What do you expect from a place that is propped up by the government. They lose massive amounts every year like the rest of the GCC.

Is it a nightmare? Yes... Just ask any of the CX guys that have left and regret it. The place is horrible for all workers, barely a single sensible person has a good word to say about the company

arrrghhh, I am kicking myself for even trying to reason with you Pro-CX/HK types. The parties long over and the smart money (me) left.
Now time to leave here, there are better things to do in life.

[RAT Management]

I left CX back in Dec 2021. Have you?
I don't think you really left if your still on here.... Time to let go.

[Cury Lamb]

CX flights are increasing weekly
CX did generate a profit in the last half of 2021
CX will of course be around in 12 months.

Keep your clothes on Flac, and don’t get too excited!

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hong-kong-economy/article/3177045/tale-two-airports-only-trickle-travellers-hong


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/828x1312/b1b99b9d_93fa_4884_94bb_9a9ae1276577_add7ed214451db9035c4416 0dc43adf3129dbd7f.jpeg

[Fac6]

*Chuckle* I'll try :8:):8

[VforVENDETTA]

In comparing QR AND CX I think some very important facts are being missed.

Do QR or EK etc. make or ever made a real profit?
Who cares? Do they pay you well enough reliably to put your eggs in that basket? Does it make any difference to you as an employee where the money you get comes from, whether from profits or government subsidies? Nope. It doesn't make a jack sh!t difference. In fact IF it's not profit based, it's more stable than otherwise.

Does QR management actively obsess with how they can save money by pulling it out of pilots' pockets maliciously? For example, last year CX management decided to cancel providing pilots with the rental deposit (which is 2 months rent) so if you signed a new rental lease you wouldn't get that assistance and now not having known about this new policy since they intentionally didn't announced it anywhere, you had to pay it yourself having already signed a new lease AND canceled your old one meaning you're forced to give back that previously paid deposit and pay the two months deposit out of pocket. It was decided to quietly implement this WITHOUT any announcement as to catch as many pilots in that predicament as possible to maximize recouping as much of that outstanding cash as possible very obviously to the detrement of cx pilots getting caught off-gaurd by this. I know a person present in a meeting when this strategy was discussed and decided. This is just one example. There are others. Does QR do that? I don't know. Do they?

And consider the management at cx in another aspect. Compare the CEO of QR who has famously said the airline that pays well will never have a shortage of pilots. An amazingly competent and realistic thing to say as a manager. Now compare that to the waste of oxygen cx has for a CEO and always chooses one after the other of the same, more or less. Who would you rather work for? Which has a better expectation of success in this business or any for that matter? Jellyfish, the GMAs one after the other, combination of waste of oxygen and vindictive malicious individuals.

We all know first hand what a toxic cancerous place CX is. We've all had our buckets of sh!t filled and overflowed by cx for many years. Giving another option a chance especially we'd be starting with an empty bucket of sh!t is a better bet than staying where we all know is only getting worse by the day. It doesn't matter how good cx does in any aspect. The employees will never get to share in any of that success. They've made that extremely clear to everyone. They will thank you for your sacrifice and nothing more than the bottom minimum possible.

I've been working for airlines for the past 32+ years. More than a few of them. I've never seen a more toxic and cancerous place of employment and I've never seen a more vicious, vindictive, malicious and on top of it all incompetent management anywhere. Almost all of us came here as mercenaries. It was always a toxic ****hole of a place to work. It's just that it paid well with good benefits so we came and stayed. Now the salary is less than 1/2 of that and benefits are 1/3 of that, there's nothing left to make it worth it to stay. Nothing left other than the cancer and toxicity.

If you have any delusions of cx somehow proving to be anything but a cancer on your career and life whether they somehow manage to survive despite doing all the wrong things, I'm here to tell you you're wrong. You'd be much better off taking a change on something new.

For those having excised this cancer from their life and career, the price to put it back better be an extremely high amount, to consider going back as direct entry captain etc.

What is your price?

Don't answer that.

[Rie]

arrrghhh, I am kicking myself for even trying to reason with you Pro-CX/HK types. The parties long over and the smart money (me) left.
Now time to leave here, there are better things to do in life.
I'm not pro CX-HK at all. The company has paid me for years but I have no more loyalty to them. Clearly you are flawed in all of your arguments about the company. Trying to compare one company in a petro-state against a Chinese Dictatorship majority airline in HK is senseless. Grass isn't always greener

[Cavallier]

Rie "Grass isn't always greener"



It is,

The Cav

[Piet Lood]

But to be fair: there is no (real) grass in the middle east.

[VforVENDETTA]

I've left.

[Flaperon777]

arrrghhh, I am kicking myself for even trying to reason with you Pro-CX/HK types. The parties long over and the smart money (me) left.
Now time to leave here, there are better things to do in life.
I would wholeheartedly agree. No DEC happening here and it’s time to move on with life. The Hong Kong Express has left the station !!

[Bokpiel]

arrrghhh, I am kicking myself for even trying to reason with you Pro-CX/HK types. The parties long over and the smart money (me) left. Now time to leave here, there are better things to do in life.

Pffft. Get off your high horse.

As if you have to be a genius to realize there are better options out there.