View Full Version : Chinese Y20s in Europe
134brat
9th Apr 2022, 07:29
Just had a look at ADSB this morning and it appears that three Chinese air force Y20 transports are headed east having taken off from Beograd. Would anyone like to speculate about the reason(s) for this rather unusual event. Surely nothing to do with events in Ukraine?
Serbia has bought missiles and drones from China, perhaps it was a delivery run.
Not 3, but 6. And yes, it was a delivery of 3 x FK3 rocket systems plus CH95 drones.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1025x777/image_85eb527a61671347e003fc45bc99756bcc53b156.jpeg
134brat
10th Apr 2022, 08:42
Thanks for the info ORAC, nice picture too.
Can't help but feel a like it's a backward step for Europe though. I had been hoping that the cold war was well and truly over.
Radley
10th Apr 2022, 12:27
Never went away.
Courtney Mil
10th Apr 2022, 17:34
Never went away.
it seems there are still some here that had not realised that.
EXDAC
10th Apr 2022, 18:08
Not 3, but 6. And yes, it was a delivery of 3 x FK3 rocket systems plus CH95 drones.
I looked at the picture and saw the three C-17 and kept looking for Chinese aircraft. Then I looked at the Wiki article and noticed the reference to data theft. I had not heard of the Y-20 before.
Lookleft
11th Apr 2022, 00:24
I was thinking the same thing but then I took a closer look at the engines. They look like the IL-76 engines which probably means the the Y-20 doesn't have the dame STOL capability as the C-17. I remember reading a while ago that the Chinese have never been able to effectively recreate Western aero engines because they don't have the required manufacturing technology.
Jhieminga
11th Apr 2022, 09:26
It currently uses the Soloviev D-30K engines that also power the Il-76, an engine type that goes back to 1963.... there are plans to re-engine with the WS-20 turbofan engine that is being developed in China. The WS-20 is a derivative of the WS-10, which has been derived from the core of the CFM56II.
admikar
11th Apr 2022, 11:09
Can't help but feel a like it's a backward step for Europe though.
Why? Serbia is buying what they think it's best for them. Same as any other country.
chopper2004
11th Apr 2022, 18:43
Just had a look at ADSB this morning and it appears that three Chinese air force Y20 transports are headed east having taken off from Beograd. Would anyone like to speculate about the reason(s) for this rather unusual event. Surely nothing to do with events in Ukraine?
Pair were leaving Belgrade around 1600 according to ADsB
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1655x1329/202e9b43_bbd5_4b75_9993_72761d6139dd_0d86e66323232da7499687b 18989e662ef44d7b7.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1681x1328/db62f8d5_78a9_4085_aeaa_940b02f5a6d6_9bb0614525a4668b668de37 21994d41cd7696d83.jpeg
beardy
12th Apr 2022, 08:36
Why? Serbia is buying what they think it's best for them. Same as any other country.
Serbia buying them, really? Do you honestly think that that they will remain in Serbia when their big ally next door has greater need. If think not. This is China helping Russia through the Serbian back door. Russia's debts are building now. There are a lot of countries that rely on the Russian military and weaponry that are going to be sorely embarrassed by any Russian retrenchment or failure, the Chinese are sitting, waiting, ready to exploit places like Serbia, Iran, Syria, Mali, Venezuela etc..
admikar
12th Apr 2022, 17:04
Serbia buying them, really? Do you honestly think that that they will remain in Serbia when their big ally next door has greater need. If think not. This is China helping Russia through the Serbian back door. Russia's debts are building now. There are a lot of countries that rely on the Russian military and weaponry that are going to be sorely embarrassed by any Russian retrenchment or failure, the Chinese are sitting, waiting, ready to exploit places like Serbia, Iran, Syria, Mali, Venezuela etc..
I would really like to hear your explanation of how those systems will get from Serbia to Russia?
Ninthace
12th Apr 2022, 17:43
How big are they?
Air Serbia has continued flying to Russia. Serbia is one of the few European countries not to stop flying to Russia or close its air space to Russian planes as part of sanctions related to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
(From Balkan Insight)
admikar
12th Apr 2022, 18:05
Missiles not so much, all the vehicles are different story. Serbia does not have any capabilities to transport launchers. No civilian plane can transport it and AFAIK no Russian plane can come to Serbia. And you really think Serbia would risk it's future aspirations of joining EU to send a dozen of missiles to Russia?
If we even consider that China wants to sell FK3 to Russia, if you look at the map, it would be a lot easier for them to deliver it to Irkutsk via air/roads then to go this route. Not to mention that everyone knows that Serbia bought it and got it delivered and NATO does have it's office in Belgrade.
So, still waiting on explanation how these systems will get delivered to Russia?
And let's not forget that Serbia is negotiating to buy 12 Rafales from France. If anything, to me it seems Serbia is slowly distancing itself from Russia.
They staged through Russia, they could have just delivered them there.
There would be no point in using a round about route - as soon as they lit up and went active everyone would know where they came from.
Conspiracy theories.
The problem is Serbia itself and a new war over Kosovo.
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/03/17/in-kosovo-fears-that-russia-could-inspire-a-new-serbian-offensive
admikar
13th Apr 2022, 06:46
They staged through Russia, they could have just delivered them there.
There would be no point in using a round about route - as soon as they lit up and went active everyone would know where they came from.
Conspiracy theories.
The problem is Serbia itself and a new war over Kosovo.
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2022/03/17/in-kosovo-fears-that-russia-could-inspire-a-new-serbian-offensive
Well, if we look at how West believes that Ukraine has full right to reintegrate eastern parts of the country, and how remaining Serb population and culture heritage is treated at Kosovo, is it surprise that Serbia wants Kosovo back?
beardy
13th Apr 2022, 07:25
Iran and others supplying weapons to Russia (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/12/russia-using-weapons-smuggled-by-iran-from-iraq-against-ukraine)
Integrating Kosovo into Serbia would be a useful result of supporting Russia.
admikar
13th Apr 2022, 07:51
Iran and others supplying weapons to Russia (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/12/russia-using-weapons-smuggled-by-iran-from-iraq-against-ukraine)
Integrating Kosovo into Serbia would be a useful result of supporting Russia.
Yeah, agree on that, but I don't think Serbia will ever get Kosovo back, short of very unlikely power redistribution and I am still waiting on your explanation of how FK3 systems will be transported to Russia?
beardy
13th Apr 2022, 08:20
Yeah, agree on that, but I don't think Serbia will ever get Kosovo back, short of very unlikely power redistribution and I am still waiting on your explanation of how FK3 systems will be transported to Russia?
Why wait for me? Do you doubt Russian ingenuity and Serbian will? Or that FK3 systems were the only cargo?