Flybe-V2

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Because the Flybe schedules requires 6 aircraft but due to delays in maintenance bringing aircraft back into service they're currently having to work the 4 aircraft they have harder. The other option would be to cancel flights and delays opening of routes which would then have the usual idiots on here moaning and customers ranting and raving meaning any reputation they've tried to build goes out the window. I personally admire what they've done so far in such a short space of time is very impressive, not to mention ambitious!
Grow up and stop calling people "idiots". It's uncalled for and frankly if you can't win on a reasoned debate, name calling isn't a good look for a grown up, which I assume you are?
Let's be clear, they've sold a program on the basis of needing six airframes and they only have four. So that's a gamble that's gone wrong, as with the current meltdown in staff attendance and supply chain, it's a struggle to run the day to day never mind grow market share. It's not a problem unique to flybe though, as TUI, BA and easyJet have realised way too late they can't staff their own planned (and sold) flying programs. It feels to me that there was a delusion up to boardroom level that the operational challenges could be met when those closer to the coalface saw the trainwreck coming some time ago. I don't imagine there's much call for leasing Q400s anymore, I suspect some of the ex flybe models will be stored to years and possibly scrapped IMHO.

[bean]

Grow up and stop calling people "idiots". It's uncalled for and frankly if you can't win on a reasoned debate, name calling isn't a good look for a grown up, which I assume you are?
Let's be clear, they've sold a program on the basis of needing six airframes and they only have four. So that's a gamble that's gone wrong, as with the current meltdown in staff attendance and supply chain, it's a struggle to run the day to day never mind grow market share. It's not a problem unique to flybe though, as TUI, BA and easyJet have realised way too late they can't staff their own planned (and sold) flying programs. It feels to me that there was a delusion up to boardroom level that the operational challenges could be met when those closer to the coalface saw the trainwreck coming some time ago. I don't imagine there's much call for leasing Q400s anymore, I suspect some of the ex flybe models will be stored to years and possibly scrapped IMHO.
My word you have a vivid imagination haven't you.
We know you have an agenda against Flybe 2 from your perpetual wrongful allegations of financial wrongdoing when the company was set up. Who specifically called You an idiot by the way?

[davidjohnson6]

Skipness has a point on the airframes - Flybe right now really could do with either having a 5th airframe as a spare and/or additional crew on call. If I look up the 4 aircraft Flybe is currently using on FR24 over the last 7 days, I see a lot of red. If all was fine, I would be seeing a lot of green on FR24. If Ryanair can run a stable operation in June 2022 out of the UK, with low cancellation rates and minimal delays, then so can any other airline.

You can't blame the weather in June.... there's a serious disconnect between what Flybe sold and what they are capable of delivering in terms of operations. You can blame AMS, but if that's the case then dedicate an airframe to AMS routes, so that delays there don't infect the rest of Flybe's operation. If it means suspending the weakest routes (e.g. LHR-LBA) so as to stabilise the rest of the network, then so be it - at least Wizz have decided to take this type of action.

[BA318]

Grow up and stop calling people "idiots". It's uncalled for and frankly if you can't win on a reasoned debate, name calling isn't a good look for a grown up, which I assume you are?
Let's be clear, they've sold a program on the basis of needing six airframes and they only have four. So that's a gamble that's gone wrong, as with the current meltdown in staff attendance and supply chain, it's a struggle to run the day to day never mind grow market share. It's not a problem unique to flybe though, as TUI, BA and easyJet have realised way too late they can't staff their own planned (and sold) flying programs. It feels to me that there was a delusion up to boardroom level that the operational challenges could be met when those closer to the coalface saw the trainwreck coming some time ago. I don't imagine there's much call for leasing Q400s anymore, I suspect some of the ex flybe models will be stored to years and possibly scrapped IMHO.

I agree. On the name calling front there are only two users on this thread who repeatedly start calling names and yet they moan most about the thread not being proper.

Flybe sold a programme needing 6 planes and only has 4. Regardless of why, that’s their problem. EU261 compensation will say that’s avoidable and I agree. BA has leased in planes to try and stop the delays but Flybe hasn’t. That’s their choice but let’s stop this myth that Flybe has no responsibility for the situation it finds itself in.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

My word you have a vivid imagination haven't you.
We know you have an agenda against Flybe 2 from your perpetual wrongful allegations of financial wrongdoing when the company was set up. Who specifically called You an idiot by the way?
I have no agenda against anyone. No one called me an idiot, it was someone else being abused.
To be clear, I said flybe2 was somewhat un-ethical in my opinion, but I also stated it was all clearly legal and above board. I did not suggest financial wrongdoing, my point was clearly that what they had done was perfectly legal but objectionable.
Reading comprehension is under-rated, if you can't do people the simple courtesy of reading and understanding what others say, then I fail to see what value you add to this debate.
I also said that since flybe had (re-)launched, the proof of the pudding was yet to come. Objectively, some problems have arisen and need addressing, it will be interesting to see how they do this.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

he gets offended by me using the words "usual idiots" which is in no way calling anyone an idiot
#accidentalpartridge

If Heathrow isn't a slot sitter, then how are the loads on LBA-LHR doing?

[Albert Hall]

I've tried to be balanced here, but you really know a debate on PPrune has hit the gutter when someone is quoting a Simpleflying article as a definitive source. Surely you know better, and I think you do! Both the article and what airsouthwest has quoted above are talking rubbish. The Heathrow slots are owned by BA but held by Flybe in perpetuity under the terms of the IAG/bmi remedy commitments given to the EU, unless Flybe now voluntarily give them back to BA or default on their usage.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

And you wonder why you get called an idiot!
If that source and repeated playground nonsense is all you've ever got then on you go. The level of debate on here really had collapsed.

Far be it from anyone to ask why they're flying fresh air and nothing else in from Leeds using Heathrow slots or going head to head with BA and KLM to AMS. Or how they make money on a LHR pricing structure against *BOTH* BA and Aer Lingus to Belfast using a smaller, slower aircraft on a much less competitve schedule.
Perhaps we should be grateful MAD is just that bit too far for a Q400? These are all fair questions that we should debate beyond at level higher than playground antics.

[brian_dromey]

If that source and repeated playground nonsense is all you've ever got then on you go. The level of debate on here really had collapsed.

Far be it from anyone to ask why they're flying fresh air and nothing else in from Leeds using Heathrow slots or going head to head with BA and KLM to AMS. Or how they make money on a LHR pricing structure against *BOTH* BA and Aer Lingus to Belfast using a smaller, slower aircraft on a much less competitve schedule.
Perhaps we should be grateful MAD is just that bit too far for a Q400? These are all fair questions that we should debate beyond at level higher than playground antics.

The choices for LHR routes seems strange. AMS and BHD have plenty of competition from LHR and most of the other London airports too. LBA has been tried before and I can't see the long terms prospects for it unless its got a BA codeshare/franchise and operates into T5. If these are the best options flyBe can think of for the slots, Im not sure why they are bothering. I think remedy slots are limited to EU destinations after 6 seasons (3 years)

[fjencl]

Anymore aircraft in the fleet operating yet ????

[VickersVicount]

Saw two BE D8’s sitting at LHR… seems an expensive parking exercise. They should be aiming to be in and out of there.

[ATNotts]

Anymore aircraft in the fleet operating yet ????

According to Jethros website no, and I can't recall seeing reference to any additional aircraft arriving at BHX.

They are going to get into an enormous mess trying to bring on the next tranche of routes will 4 aircraft. Either start dates are going to have to be delayed, or equipment wet leased in to operate them. One pees off potential customers, the other hits the bottom line, assuming they could lay their hands on additional equipment.

The words "rock" and "hard place" come to mind.

[SWBKCB]

When does the next tranche of new flights kick in? And what's the delay in getting more a/c on line?

[Jamesair1]

According to TTG at the end of May, a leasing agreement has been signed for 5 additional aircraft. When they are delivered surely that will solve the lack of aircraft problems

[VickersVicount]

and if rumoured SOU base, its all sounding very familiar and predictable…

[ATNotts]

When does the next tranche of new flights kick in? And what's the delay in getting more a/c on line?
BHD/EDI starts 23rd July, I had it in my mind that there were other increases in services and new routes this month.

[RW20]

If this happens it would be disastrous for SOU,
The demise of Flybe 1 almost destroyed the airport!
With the economic situation at the moment SOU is struggling to.survive,with PAX numbers very suppressed.
Flybe is not the answer,and BA operation has not been advertised enough to make it a success.
SOU needs its runway extension to continue as a viable operation,but it is not going to be easy with the on going economic situation,and world turmoil.

[brian_dromey]

If this happens it would be disastrous for SOU,
The demise of Flybe 1 almost destroyed the airport!
With the economic situation at the moment SOU is struggling to.survive,with PAX numbers very suppressed.
Flybe is not the answer,and BA operation has not been advertised enough to make it a success.
SOU needs its runway extension to continue as a viable operation,but it is not going to be easy with the on going economic situation,and world turmoil.

I doubt flyBe would be disastrous for SOU, at least they will get some passengers through the door. I doubt a serious attempts at an SOU base/focus city by easyJet or Ryanair would be scuppered by a few Q400s on Domestic routes. Who knows how long flyBe will survive and what their business model will evolve into. Mid-life Q400s will need to be replaced at some point and they are not made anymore. If they stay with turboprops it will have to be the ATR, maybe they will graduate to the A220 or secondhand 737NG/A32X.

[RW20]

Certainly Ryanair will never come to SOU!
Easy jet possible limited operation ,due stand space,
However I can't see FYbe 2 making any indentations on the domestic routes,and A220/737, purchase
Is in the realms of fantasy!!

[allan1987]

BHD/EDI starts 23rd July, I had it in my mind that there were other increases in services and new routes this month.


BHD/EDI starts on 23 June,

There is talk flybe may have to lease 1 or 2 ATR 72-600,
not sure where is this coming from though as there is delay in parts for the Q400

[ATNotts]

BHD/EDI starts on 23 June,


Sorry, I am an idiot; I checked the Flybe website before posting, and still managed to type July instead of June!

[willy wombat]

Little bit of schadenfreude if the promoters of how much better the dash 8 is than the ATR have to be bailed out by a couple of 72s.

[brian_dromey]

Certainly Ryanair will never come to SOU!
Easy jet possible limited operation ,due stand space,
However I can't see FYbe 2 making any indentations on the domestic routes,and A220/737, purchase
Is in the realms of fantasy!!

My post was trying to understand why you thing flyBe offering flights from SOU would be a disaster for the airport and its future? My point was that easyJet/Wizz/Ryanair or IAG would not be too bothered one way or the other about flyBe. The kind of routes flyBe are likely to offer are of little interest to any of them - other than BHD and DUB for EI who seem unfazed by flyBe at other airports.

My point about the future fleet is that the Q400 is out of production and Bombardier have sold off the remains. Assuming flyBe survive for long enough, they will have to re-fleet at some stage. Far from being a fantasy, if maintenance and support aren’t forthcoming (which it appears it may not be) flyBes fleet will become a pressing question.

I understand the owners just wanted to pick everything up from before - but flyBe did operate the ATR as well. Teh leases on these Q400s must be peanuts….

[davidjohnson6]

There is talk flybe may have to lease 1 or 2 ATR 72-600, not sure where is this coming from though as there is delay in parts for the Q400
Wet lease or dry lease ? If a wet lease, who are the likely airlines with spare ATRs ?

[TartinTon]

If this happens it would be disastrous for SOU,
The demise of Flybe 1 almost destroyed the airport!
With the economic situation at the moment SOU is struggling to.survive,with PAX numbers very suppressed.
Flybe is not the answer,and BA operation has not been advertised enough to make it a success.
SOU needs its runway extension to continue as a viable operation,but it is not going to be easy with the on going economic situation,and world turmoil.

Probably one of the more stupid posts I have seen on here for a while and there's been a few!
How can an airline starting operations from a restricted airfield that is crying out for operators with the right type of aircraft be "not the answer" when it would probably be a housing estate by now were it not for Flybe mk1?

Flybe1 was the ONLY airline prepared to make a significant investment in the airport previously and is probably the best hope for the airport today.

Let's face it, the airport hasn't exactly covered itself in glory in getting the significant operational restrictions sorted out in the intervening years, has it?

As a local you should be welcoming them in with open arms instead of pinning your hopes on a ridiculous dream of painting the airfield orange because that will never happen.

As for BA (Cityflyer..not mainline)..the only reason they are there is because LCY is closed Sat pm through Sun am. No other reason.

[ATNotts]

Marathon Airlines E170 is presently winging its way towards BHD as BEE170P to operate BE142 to GLA. It will be interesting to see whether this is just for a couple of rotations, or a longer term arrangement. Have they bitten the bullet and brought capacity in short term to cover maintenance of the current fleet?

[bean]

Marathon Airlines E170 is presently winging its way towards BHD as BEE170P to operate BE142 to GLA. It will be interesting to see whether this is just for a couple of rotations, or a longer term arrangement. Have they bitten the bullet and brought capacity in short term to cover maintenance of the current fleet?
It's not maintenance, it's damage caused by a heavy landing

[ATNotts]

It's not maintenance, it's damage caused by a heavy landing

Whoops! So probably will require longer term sub-chartering, and not a little extra expense. I suppose they should be thankful they could lay their hands on cover at all given the state of the European industry at the moment.

[Wycombe]

It's not maintenance, it's damage caused by a heavy landing
Reported elsewhere that G-ECOR is the aircraft involved. Hasn't flown since last Friday 10/6

[Mooncrest]

Reported elsewhere that G-ECOR is the aircraft involved. Hasn't flown since last Friday 10/6
It was last seen on Monday afternoon performing engine runs outside the LBA hangars.

[Sotonsean]

TartinTon..Quote="Probably one of the more stupid posts I have seen on here for a while"

Well I don't recommend you reading the SOU thread as there are many similar posts!. They are beyond ridiculous at times and always the same rhetoric. As SOU is my local airport I find the thread quite depressing with the same individual 's' rehashing the same garbage.

Probably one of the more stupid posts I have seen on here for a while and there's been a few!
How can an airline starting operations from a restricted airfield that is crying out for operators with the right type of aircraft be "not the answer" when it would probably be a housing estate by now were it not for Flybe mk1?

Flybe1 was the ONLY airline prepared to make a significant investment in the airport previously and is probably the best hope for the airport today.

Let's face it, the airport hasn't exactly covered itself in glory in getting the significant operational restrictions sorted out in the intervening years, has it?

As a local you should be welcoming them in with open arms instead of pinning your hopes on a ridiculous dream of painting the airfield orange because that will never happen.

As for BA (Cityflyer..not mainline)..the only reason they are there is because LCY is closed Sat pm through Sun am. No other reason.

[SWBKCB]

TartinTon..Quote="Probably one of the more stupid posts I have seen on here for a while"

Well I don't recommend you reading the SOU thread as there are many similar posts!. They are beyond ridiculous at times and always the same rhetoric. As SOU is my local airport I find the thread quite depressing with the same individual 's' rehashing the same garbage.

Pressing the 'like' button....

[SWBKCB]

Reported elsewhere that G-ECOR is the aircraft involved. Hasn't flown since last Friday 10/6

Operating LBA-LHR this morning

[bean]

TartinTon..Quote="Probably one of the more stupid posts I have seen on here for a while"

Well I don't recommend you reading the SOU thread as there are many similar posts!. They are beyond ridiculous at times and always the same rhetoric. As SOU is my local airport I find the thread quite depressing with the same individual 's' rehashing the same garbage.
Stupid posts on this forum? I DON'T BELIEVE IT
Not

[Stormonttrooper]

BE142 seems to be Marathon Airlines E175 today

[EGTE]

G-ECOR has flown to Exeter for some TLC this lunch time.

[MATaxi]

TartinTon..Quote="Probably one of the more stupid posts I have seen on here for a while"

Well I don't recommend you reading the SOU thread as there are many similar posts!. They are beyond ridiculous at times and always the same rhetoric. As SOU is my local airport I find the thread quite depressing with the same individual 's' rehashing the same garbage.

Ridiculous posts abound which is a shame. However , Southampton really doesn't need a three way battle between Eastern , Loganair and FlyBe2 over all the same old same old destinations. This is only good for the consumer in the short term until one or two pull away from the fight leaving the one remaining who then whacks the price back up to eye-watering and an airport that hopes that they don't repeat the example of FlyBe1.There are only so many people that want the same old seats to the same destinations.

A small variety of carriers serving a variety of destinations is what the demographic requires here IMO. The Orange team and the Purple team have "gently" been enquiring but neither are talking about being "full-on" and obvs, not until the changes are made.

[SKOJB]

Ridiculous posts abound which is a shame. However , Southampton really doesn't need a three way battle between Eastern , Loganair and FlyBe2 over all the same old same old destinations. This is only good for the consumer in the short term until one or two pull away from the fight leaving the one remaining who then whacks the price back up to eye-watering and an airport that hopes that they don't repeat the example of FlyBe1.There are only so many people that want the same old seats to the same destinations.

A small variety of carriers serving a variety of destinations is what the demographic requires here IMO. The Orange team and the Purple team have "gently" been enquiring but neither are talking about being "full-on" and obvs, not until the changes are made.

Highly likely the purple team will expand certain routes from SOU fairly soon and the orange team will be first in of the LLC if and when the changes are made, to what extent however is anyone’s guess!

[Albert Hall]

The airport does not need (and nor should it want) a position where one airline accounts for 90%+ of its business. It now has several airlines covering the portfolio and although there are gaps remaining like Paris (and gaps in a lot of other UK airports) then it’s got KLM, BA CityFlyer, Loganair, Eastern, Aurigny and Blue Islands all doing the job that a single airline in Flybe used to.

With the exception of the weekend French flights, all Flybe 2 is proposing to do is replicate routes already flown by others, starting with Belfast against Eastern. The airport may need many things but this isn’t one of them.

On the leisure side, isn’t there another rather obvious option which would suit the market well?

[Wycombe]

Looking at fares over the next few days one suspects that the current rail disruption must be a blessing for Flybe on the LHR-LBA route

As it seems that they may have another Dash AOG (JECX has not flown for a few days), they are operating some flights on this route with a hired-in Marathon Airlines (Greece) E175 and it seems to be keeping fairly well to schedule from my (FR24) observations.

Apparently this aircraft will also provide cover for awaited further Dash's that appear to be delayed into service. The next route start (BHD-EDI) is tomorrow, and is operating once daily initially - you can still get a seat for tomorrows first outbound on this route from BHD for the princely sum of £226.99!

Edit: some BHX-BHD flights next week showing as being operated by Swiftair (Spain) - guessing this will be an ATR?
Edit 2! - Swiftair AT72 positioning MAD-BHX as I type

[BA318]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/advice/avoid-sundays-fly-11am-secrets-booking-perfect-flight-ticket/
An interesting article.

After KLM, Flybe has cancelled the largest percentage of UK flights between May 7 and June 6th 2022. This is flights cancelled within 7 days of departures.

[ATNotts]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/advice/avoid-sundays-fly-11am-secrets-booking-perfect-flight-ticket/
An interesting article.

After KLM, Flybe has cancelled the largest percentage of UK flights between May 7 and June 6th 2022. This is flights cancelled within 7 days of departures.

They may well have done, but as I am sure you are well aware percentages are funny things. If they have 10 rotations a day at AMS, cancel 2, then hey presto! they have cancelled 20% of their flights, equivalent of cancelling, for example AMS/EMA/AMS.

That said they appear to be having a bit of a torrid time with their fleet recently, sub chartering E170 and AT7 equipment to cover. Hopefully this will prove temporary as it can't be helping their bottom line.

[dantheflyboy]

I really wanted FlybeV2 to be a success and who knows it might yet become one but Patience must be evaporating fast with the travelling public. Currently I feel flybe V1 was much better than V2 and look how that ended! I have experienced two cancelled flights which I am still waiting on compensation. I have a booking in August to LHR with them but it is really important I get there in a timely manner and I have lost faith that they can deliver that to the point I have paid for new flights with another operator putting me out of pocket by hundreds of hard earned pounds.
It may take some time for that confidence in flybe to be restored if ever. I am fully aware of the problems that all airlines are facing this summer and of flybeV2 fleet issues but I hope they are reading this and see that customers are being put off flying with them no matter how good value the fare. I do not wish for the hard working staff they have to go through the airline failing. I just wish the management would be more proactive and build some robustness into the schedule while they still have enough customers willing to fly with them. At least flying from Belfast we have the option to fly with a choice of airlines on many routes for that I am grateful. To the hard working crews out there stay strong and know that we appreciate your service. Have a good day everyone!

[Wycombe]

I really wanted FlybeV2 to be a success and who knows it might yet become one but Patience must be evaporating fast with the travelling public. Currently I feel flybe V1 was much better than V2 and look how that ended! I have experienced two cancelled flights which I am still waiting on compensation. I have a booking in August to LHR with them but it is really important I get there in a timely manner and I have lost faith that they can deliver that to the point I have paid for new flights with another operator putting me out of pocket by hundreds of hard earned pounds.
It may take some time for that confidence in flybe to be restored if ever. I am fully aware of the problems that all airlines are facing this summer and of flybeV2 fleet issues but I hope they are reading this and see that customers are being put off flying with them no matter how good value the fare. I do not wish for the hard working staff they have to go through the airline failing. I just wish the management would be more proactive and build some robustness into the schedule while they still have enough customers willing to fly with them. At least flying from Belfast we have the option to fly with a choice of airlines on many routes for that I am grateful. To the hard working crews out there stay strong and know that we appreciate your service. Have a good day everyone!
6 aircraft operating today - hired in E175 and ATR72, plus the 4 Q400's they currently have.
From what I've read elsewhere, they should've had at least 2 (maybe 3) more Q400's on hand by now, but these have been held-up in maintenenace (some talk of spares being the issue), which is obviosuly outside of the airlines' direct control.
I'd imagine that suitable aircraft to source to pick-up the shortfall don't grow on trees either, so management may well have been working hard to "build some robustness into the schedule" but none of these things are easy. Understand your frustration though and had similar circumstances last week involving EZY and parts of my travelling group buying alternative flights due to concern over cancellations (which in the end didn't occur!)

[Sharklet_321]

What's going on with Flybe?

Just tried to book an EMA to BHD flight but the fares are all ridiculously expensive as though they are about to pull the route. I checked a few others and it all seems the same?

Not good

[ATNotts]

What's going on with Flybe?

Just tried to book an EMA to BHD flight but the fares are all ridiculously expensive as though they are about to pull the route. I checked a few others and it all seems the same?

Not good
Given that delivery of the next Dash 8s are behind schedule perhaps they are putting back the start date on the route; or perhaps forward bookings are very strong?

[bean]

Given that delivery of the next Dash 8s are behind schedule perhaps they are putting back the start date on the route; or perhaps forward bookings are very strong?
High fares equal high loads

[SWBKCB]

What's going on with Flybe?

Just tried to book an EMA to BHD flight but the fares are all ridiculously expensive as though they are about to pull the route. I checked a few others and it all seems the same?

Not good

Depends on what you mean by ridiculously expensive - just checked w/c 11 July and ranges between £73.99 and £147.99 0ne way - not dirt cheap but not what I'd call ridiculously expensive.

[BA318]

High fares equal high loads

Not always. Airlines often put prices up to an undesirable level if they don’t want to sell tickets - e.g will shortly be pulling the route or might have issues. Most recently BA went to only selling full fare tickets last month when they had there last meltdown. However it can also be because they are loading/changing other fares - sometimes before a sale or special offer.

Just like full flights don’t always equals profits or high yield.

There has been speculation online. https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1540060389697880064?s=20&t=OpNOyw-8DSwL2A2V4G14nA

[cavokblues]

Something is amiss - for example 28/7 a flight BE476 Manchester to Belfast is £182 yet when you go to book and choose a seat only 3 people are currently on it.

Might be a bug in the system rather than flights being cancelled?

[N123JB]

Depends on what you mean by ridiculously expensive - just checked w/c 11 July and ranges between £73.99 and £147.99 0ne way - not dirt cheap but not what I'd call ridiculously expensive.

That's far from what they were initially charging. Either they're in need of some extra cash or trying to deter people from booking - most likely so they can axe the route. Blue Islands did the same before they axed their EXT/SOU base routes.

[Sharklet_321]

If you try and book EMA-BHD out 8th September and back a week later it’s all £168.99 one way - in my opinion ridiculously expensive!

[N123JB]

Thought I'd have a look to see if anything else has changed however their booking system is unavailable... more changes coming?

[SWBKCB]

Working OK for me

[Albert Hall]

I’ve got to ask. Bean, given what was said before your post and what has been said since, do you really believe what you posted ?

[BA318]

There also seems to be a lot of reports of missing luggage for Flybe passengers. Anyone know what’s going on there?

[Buster the Bear]

There also seems to be a lot of reports of missing luggage for Flybe passengers. Anyone know what’s going on there?

Handling agents or airport are responsible.

[BA318]

Handling agents or airport are responsible.

Ultimately the airline is responsible. They select their handling agents and it isn’t always the case. Some carriers such as BA made active choices to leave bags behind when they had delays. Plus it is the airline’s reputation on the line.

[bean]

I’ve got to ask. Bean, given what was said before your post and what has been said since, do you really believe what you posted ?
Yes. This thread is degenerating at its usual rapid pace. Pathetic

[GayFriendly]

Something definitely not right - just been checking flights from BHX on random dates in Aug and Sept to EDI, GLA, ABZ and BHD, all fares set at £168 or higher one way.....they're seemingly trying to deter people from booking. I'm guessing a major schedule change / restructuring is on the cards?

[Albert Hall]

Bean, whether you think the thread is pathetic or not, you believe that high fares = high loads and the fares on all of these routes yet to be launched are so high because flights are filling up so fast. I’m not sure what planet you’re on, but I don’t think it’s the same one as the rest of us. You may see that as a good thing if all of the other posters are pathetic dribblers as you seem to suggest, but I’ll just leave it there !

[bean]

Bean, whether you think the thread is pathetic or not, you believe that high fares = high loads and the fares on all of these routes yet to be launched are so high because flights are filling up so fast. I’m not sure what planet you’re on, but I don’t think it’s the same one as the rest of us. You may see that as a good thing if all of the other posters are pathetic dribblers as you seem to suggest, but I’ll just leave it there !
Thank you for your highly complimentary comments. Of course you are right and i shall treat you in future with the respect you deserve, particularly in regards to your prefaces to your comments begiinnin "m hearing" which never come to fruition. Great get out cause on your part. But, i'll just leave it there

[Albert Hall]

The only post I can see in recent history which started “I’ve heard” was about Flybe leasing in an Embraer and an ATR - and that’s exactly what is happening, so I need no “get-out” from what I said, thanks.

This is all deflecting attention from the basic point here. Fares on the new Flybe routes have gone up to very high levels. It looks very much like some major change is afoot. I’d prefer to get back to that point instead of deliberately being headed off down blind alleys to shut down debate.

[LGS6753]

Back to topic....
It may be the case that the reason domestic fares are so high is a combination of higher costs and rail disruption driving demand.

[davidjohnson6]

Back to topic....
It may be the case that the reason domestic fares are so high is a combination of higher costs and rail disruption driving demand.

It would be strange for large numbers of people to panic buy air tickets for all dates in August on the possibility of rail strikes whose dates have not yet been announced. If this were the case, routes like Leeds-Heathrow would also see high fares (which they are not !)

[SWBKCB]

It would be strange for large numbers of people to panic buy air tickets for all dates in August on the possibility of rail strikes whose dates have not yet been announced. If this were the case, routes like Leeds-Heathrow would also see high fares (which they are not !)

I agree - from the one's I've looked at, up to the end of July there is the normal variable pattern of fares (e.g. Friday/Sunday high, Tues/Weds low) and then all fares are set at a single high level irrespective of the date

[JSCL]

Looks like Heathrow - Leeds is getting some reductions/changes in the summer. Just had some 'itinerary change' emails and only 1 daily showing.

[CaptainActor]

Interesting points. I just had a look at BHX-BHD for Friday at £227. Yes, I know its a prime time. Although it only had 18 seats pre-booked so I thought that price is a bit steep. All a bit back of a fag packet i know. Maybe just trying to bring more revenue in. I can only imagine the operating costs versus maybe low pax figures and then compensatory claims for cx flights etc.

[bean]

Looks like Heathrow - Leeds is getting some reductions/changes in the summer. Just had some 'itinerary change' emails and only 1 daily showing.
well done. Sincerely,
Well thought out sensible comment

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

well done. Sincerely,
Well thought out sensible comment
Is that sarcasm? Once daily is no use to anyone, so that's one LHR route about to be binned before the end of one season.

[davidjohnson6]

Leeds-Heathrow is a bit of a special case of a route... and I would suggest a 1x daily is actually useful. It cannot possibly compete against the train from central Leeds to central London but, if it operates *reliably* (and yes, I have seen all the delay/cancel data), it can be useful for those flying between Yorkshire and north America as a self-connect

[biddedout]

Maybe this explains it. Up to 30% of slots at individual can be handed back temporarily without penalty.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-helps-prevent-last-minute-summer-flight-cancellations-with-amnesty-on-airport-slots-rule

[BA318]

Maybe this explains it. Up to 30% of slots at individual can be handed back temporarily without penalty.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-helps-prevent-last-minute-summer-flight-cancellations-with-amnesty-on-airport-slots-rule

now we just need an explanation for the bizarre pricing on 5-6 other routes…

very few people are going to be self connecting on Flybe at LHR especially in the current environment.

[toledoashley]

Leeds-Heathrow is a bit of a special case of a route... and I would suggest a 1x daily is actually useful. It cannot possibly compete against the train from central Leeds to central London but, if it operates *reliably* (and yes, I have seen all the delay/cancel data), it can be useful for those flying between Yorkshire and north America as a self-connect

Given what is likely to be a summer of discontent on the railways, you would have thought a reliable LBA-LHR would do well in the circumstances.

[Asturias56]

yeah but strikes are likely to affect LHR as well

[ATNotts]

now we just need an explanation for the bizarre pricing on 5-6 other routes…

very few people are going to be self connecting on Flybe at LHR especially in the current environment.

Leaving aside, just for a moment, the chip that you among others have on their shoulders relating to Flybe it seems to me there is a fairly simple, if unpalatable reason for route cancellations, if indeed that is what is going on, which does appear likely.

Flybe are trying to operate a route network with too few airframes, which has already resulted in sub chartering to enable them to operate an acceptable level of service on the routes they are running now. Looking at Jethros Fleet List (https://jethroseu.co.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/flybe_ltd.html) which I appreciate is not "official, but normally pretty accurate, Flybe ought to be taking delivery of three additional Dash 8s, none of which appear to be arriving any time soon at BHX. All the routes that "SeanM" has highlighted are yet to start, so it looks very much as though they have information internally as to the likely timescales for the eventual delivery of these three, and subsequent units and decided that, financially and from a customer service standpoint, delaying the start of these routes is infinitely preferable to throwing money into chartering yet more aircraft in, which is surely not budgeted for.

If this scenario was correct then its hardly a good omen, but better than killing the business with either extra costs, or tarnishing (some might say further tarnishing) the airline's reputation.

I am sure all will become clear in the new few days, possibly weeks.

[BA318]

Leaving aside, just for a moment, the chip that you among others have on their shoulders relating to Flybe it seems to me there is a fairly simple, if unpalatable reason for route cancellations, if indeed that is what is going on, which does appear likely.

Flybe are trying to operate a route network with too few airframes, which has already resulted in sub chartering to enable them to operate an acceptable level of service on the routes they are running now. Looking at Jethros Fleet List (https://jethroseu.co.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/flybe_ltd.html) which I appreciate is not "official, but normally pretty accurate, Flybe ought to be taking delivery of three additional Dash 8s, none of which appear to be arriving any time soon at BHX. All the routes that "SeanM" has highlighted are yet to start, so it looks very much as though they have information internally as to the likely timescales for the eventual delivery of these three, and subsequent units and decided that, financially and from a customer service standpoint, delaying the start of these routes is infinitely preferable to throwing money into chartering yet more aircraft in, which is surely not budgeted for.

If this scenario was correct then its hardly a good omen, but better than killing the business with either extra costs, or tarnishing (some might say further tarnishing) the airline's reputation.

I am sure all will become clear in the new few days, possibly weeks.

I have no chip on my shoulder regarding Flybe. It’s a valid topic for debate if an airline suddenly raises its base fare from £30 to £160.

There seems to be an idea that we can only discuss Flybe if it is praise for the carrier. There is also a group who feel the need to accuse anyone not full of praise for Flybe of either having a chip on their shoulder, some kind of competing interest or worse. It’s perfectly valid to disagree with their plans or how they do things and this is a valid forum for discussing that. It’d be a lot more civil if people just made their points rather than trying to construe a background or ulterior motive for each person’s view.

Don’t like a point? Ignore it or make your argument back without the need to play the man.

Flybe are in a tricky spot. Chartering more in costs money. Cancelling costs reputation however just raising the fare isn’t going to solve that issue. Either these flights are going to be cancelled and they should get on with it or they plan to operate (perhaps with charters if needed) but then are likely to be poorly loaded - especially when competing carriers are offering similarly timed flights for £30-50.

[ATNotts]

Don’t like a point? Ignore it or make your argument back without the need to play the man.

I wasn't playing the man, just there is, in some postings more than a small amount of schadenfreude when discussing the situation at Flybe, which I reckon with one or two exceptions posters have no inside info on, it pure conjecture - as indeed is my take above.

I don't believe that pointing out that whatever the cause this quote If this scenario was correct then its hardly a good omen from my post above is hardly a ringing endorsement of what appears to be happening within the business presently.

Your final paragraph is spot on the money; it will be very interesting to see, if we were ever to find out, how they are standing up on key routes, particularly BHX/BHD in terms of passenger number and yield. Culling routes that aren't performing needs to be ruthless, as they are with are with the like of Ryanair and EasyJet as well as the very much maligned Wizz.

[biddedout]

The effort and cost that went into trying to hang onto the remedy slots over the last two years suggests that they have no intention of giving up on them. This temporary alleviation gives them a bit of breathing space and it will be interesting to see where they re-appear in the winter schedule. I can imagine that the current east westish network is as much about managing crewing and engineering logistics as they get started. Immediate profit on all routes would be great, but probably isn't the immediate priority. Presumably the LBA night-stopping airframe is swapped with the BHD most mornings to minimise engineering costs as they build up BHD as an engineering hub. All clever cost management stuff but a bit nerve-wracking from an operational point of view with limited airframes. Ironically, these issues can provide short term opportunities such as using the leased in fixed price jet night-stopping in LBA to avoid paying additional hotac costs for BHX crew and engineering support. I can't imagine the ATR being used into LHR.

[SWBKCB]

Ironically, these issues can provide short term opportunities such as using the leased in fixed price jet night-stopping in LBA to avoid paying additional hotac costs

It's been night-stopping in Belfast?

[Wycombe]

I can't imagine the ATR being used into LHR.

It has been at least twice over the last few days

[jamestkirk]

Unfortunately we won’t know until a trading statement is released or we look at the company accounts. Which will be circa late 2023.

[JobsaGoodun]

Unfortunately we won’t know until a trading statement is released or we look at the company accounts. Which will be circa late 2023.

As a private company, I think the likelihood of getting any trading or financial information is highly unlikely. The current owners have a history of saying very little publicly.

[davidjohnson6]

The accounts up to 31-Mar-2022 (ie just before flights launched in a serious way) are due at Companies House by 31-Dec-2022, and will likely appear on the web by early January. This will show the costs incurred in starting the airline and other interesting info. If you want to see *reliable* operating financial data, then expect to wait another 18 months
If you have access, RDC Apex should give good estimates
Otherwise, CAA data is all there is in the public domain

[CaptainActor]

Yes, agree with you and JTK. The 18 months will be an interesting read on companies house.

[Wycombe]

now we just need an explanation for the bizarre pricing on 5-6 other routes?

Elsewhere on social media, a contact from within BEE is reporting "we are making a lot of schedule adjustments this Summer. Fares will be back down soon"

Meanwhile, Emerald have announced BHD to CWL and SOU (a route BEE also intend to introduce in late July) starting in a couple of weeks

[cavokblues]

All removed from sale, apparently, according to SeanM on Twitter

Belfast City - East Midlands
Belfast City - Edinburgh (2 of 3 daily)
Belfast City - Glasgow (1 of 3 daily)

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1541696803032256512

[bean]

Non proffesional speculation network

[ATNotts]

Non proffesional speculation network

But generally quite accurate for all that.

[SWBKCB]

All removed from sale, apparently, according to SeanM on Twitter

Belfast City - East Midlands
Belfast City - Edinburgh (2 of 3 daily)
Belfast City - Glasgow (1 of 3 daily)

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1541696803032256512

To be fair to Sean M, he says the flights have been removed from Google fights - not that they have been removed from sale altogether. Still available on the Flybe website, albeit at a high price.

[N123JB]

Non proffesional speculation network
"Rumour - be circulated as an unverified account"

Nothing speculative about saying Flybe has dramatically raised fares on certain flights and removed them from sale on outside channels. Nor is it speculative to point out there are several examples of airlines dramatically raising fares to deter people from booking for a variety of reasons. If you want to reach a conclusion based on that then that's on you. Make of it what you will.

[Wycombe]

One of the awaited/overdue Dash's scheduled for delivery was noted test-flying out of MST yesterday, so hopefully making its way into service soon?

As for the posts above, it does all seem to fit with the Flybe source who confirmed that schedule adjustments were underway and that the high fares on some routes were part of this process.

[bean]

One of the awaited/overdue Dash's scheduled for delivery was noted test-flying out of MST yesterday, so hopefully making its way into service soon?

As for the posts above, it does all seem to fit with the Flybe source who confirmed that schedule adjustments were underway and that the high fares on some routes were part of this process.
Wycombe. You and i are singing from the same hymn sheet and same sources. Let's not identyfy them to the same negative whingers who want to see an airline die before it has properly gestated other wise the sources we have will be simarlarly tainted by toxicity

[cavokblues]

CAA Airport stats are out

Hard to really read anything into them as only two routes without competition

East Midlands - Amsterdam -2483 pax to and from.
Leeds - Heathrow - 990 pax to and from .

Not sure on seat capacity, is it a daily fight between East Midlands and Amsterdam and 12 flights a week each way between Leeds and Heathrow?

[Wycombe]

Looks like the leased-in Swift Air ATR had a turn-back shortly after departing BHD for LBA this morning.

[davidjohnson6]

When is the schedule change / pricing policy update expected to be completed ? Not just some routes but all routes either showing real prices or zero availability

Potential pax need a clear picture of what will and won't operate in order to have confidence to book. Every day the website shows silly prices is a day of zero revenue and customers losing faith in flybe as a competent airline

[ATNotts]

CAA Airport stats are out

Hard to really read anything into them as only two routes without competition

East Midlands - Amsterdam -2483 pax to and from.
Leeds - Heathrow - 990 pax to and from .

Not sure on seat capacity, is it a daily fight between East Midlands and Amsterdam and 12 flights a week each way between Leeds and Heathrow?

EMA / AMS started at the end of April, so assuming there were no cancellations in May, then 62 sectors would give an average load of 40, so a little more than 50% load factor, not so bad I suppose since the route had only been operating for 2 days before the start of the month. The LBA / LHR figure looks diabolical!

[Wycombe]

Looks like the leased-in Swift Air ATR had a turn-back shortly after departing BHD for LBA this morning.
Its flying again today (albeit delayed out of BHD) so whatever the issue was can't have been too major.

The Marathon E175 looks to consistently operate to schedule :-)

[BA318]

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1544631114714779651?s=20&t=1NSR7dL1SKH8JwmsSz4eyw

so all that unprofessional speculation was pretty accurate…

[cavokblues]

https://twitter.com/SeanM1997/status/1544631114714779651?s=20&t=1NSR7dL1SKH8JwmsSz4eyw

so all that unprofessional speculation was pretty accurate…

Yet the Leeds - Heathrow route remains. I would say there are bigger markets in those cut routes than flying, on average, 10 pax, down to London from Yorkshire twice a day.

[BA318]

Yet the Leeds - Heathrow route remains. I would say there are bigger markets in those cut routes than flying, on average, 10 pax, down to London from Yorkshire twice a day.

LBA-LHR has been cut to daily.

[BA318]

We'll operate the routes below during Summer 2022, but at a reduced frequency:


Belfast City to Birmingham, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Manchester and Southampton

Birmingham to Edinburgh and Glasgow


We will no longer operate the route below during Summer 2022:


Belfast City to Aberdeen, Inverness and Newcastle

Birmingham to Aberdeen




A message from Dave Pflieger, CEO.Due to late aircraft deliveries, we must reduce our planned flight schedule from 28 July to 29 October 2022,

This is not a decision we’ve have taken lightly, and as you would expect we are in daily conversations with all involved to see if anything might change that would allow us to resume our original plans at an earlier date. It is essential that we take action now to ensure you have enough time to change your travel plans, be reaccommodated on a different flight or, if that is not desired, obtain a full refund.



The statement can be found here: https://www.flybe.com/en/support/summer2022

[davidjohnson6]

What happens to the aircraft being leased in, eg the E175 from Marathon Air ? Termination of lease ?

[ATNotts]

Flybe are trying to operate a route network with too few airframes, which has already resulted in sub chartering to enable them to operate an acceptable level of service on the routes they are running now. Looking at Jethros Fleet List (https://jethroseu.co.uk/fleets/fleet_listings/flybe_ltd.html) which I appreciate is not "official, but normally pretty accurate, Flybe ought to be taking delivery of three additional Dash 8s, none of which appear to be arriving any time soon at BHX. All the routes that "SeanM" has highlighted are yet to start, so it looks very much as though they have information internally as to the likely timescales for the eventual delivery of these three, and subsequent units and decided that, financially and from a customer service standpoint, delaying the start of these routes is infinitely preferable to throwing money into chartering yet more aircraft in, which is surely not budgeted for.

If this scenario was correct then its hardly a good omen, but better than killing the business with either extra costs, or tarnishing (some might say further tarnishing) the airline's reputation.

I am sure all will become clear in the new few days, possibly weeks.
I wrote this 10 days ago.

After a torrent of posts since it appears to sum up exactly the position, and is a sound, if difficult and embarrassing business decision to have been made.

One assumes they have commitments from the lessors that by the end of July they will have enough equipment to be able to operate the slimmed down programme without the current subchartered equipment.

[Wycombe]

1 more airframe should be operational soon, when it's back from Malta.

There are also 2 more apparently that are close to service entry, but these will be needed to fly the increases that haven't been cut as a result of todays announcement. For example, BHD to EMA and MAN which start tomorrow. I understand the current lease-in's will be ended as these deliveries take place (or can be extended if they don't)

[BusterHot]

Very unfortunate that Flybe have had to make these decisions, however it's a testament to good management at v2 that they're making big changes now rather than tickle around the edges.

I’m sorry, but I beg to differ. When I was offered the chance to do some training for them in Jan 2021 to help the crews get back to currency, talking to some people working for the Administrators the prospective management hadn’t got a clue what was going on. Fast forward a year and we see the quite frankly amazing route structure and you’ve got to wonder what kind of long term plan these people have other than to make a quick buck and head for the hills.

All those ex Flybe D8’s, of which I flew every last one of them, have been sitting around for 2 years now and if the “Management” are so damn good, why haven’t they been delivered in order to meet the schedule.? I personally believe it’s sheer incompetence, but no doubt Bean or Air Southwest will be along anytime soon to tell me I haven’t got a clue what I’m talking about and I don’t have the “big picture”.

[ATNotts]

BusterHot,

Appreciate your points, however there are shortages of parts for vehicles and many sectors currently and it is very possible that the problems causing delays in delivery of the expected airframes stem from such an issue.

As for the route structure, aside from the LHR routes they are, so far pretty logical.

[SWBKCB]

Appreciate your points, however there are shortages of parts for vehicles and many sectors currently and it is very possible that the problems causing delays in delivery of the expected airframes stem from such an issue.

Which has been widely reported for months...

[TartinTon]

Very unfortunate that Flybe have had to make these decisions, however it's a testament to good management at v2 that they're making big changes now rather than tickle around the edges.

All those ex Flybe D8’s, of which I flew every last one of them, have been sitting around for 2 years now and if the “Management” are so damn good, why haven’t they been delivered in order to meet the schedule.? I personally believe it’s sheer incompetence, but no doubt Bean or Air Southwest will be along anytime soon to tell me I haven’t got a clue what I’m talking about and I don’t have the “big picture”.

Probably because of what you just said. They've been sitting around for 2 years in not exactly hot and dry locations (Saarbrucken/Weeze) and the lessors haven't been taking remedial care of them hence the ridiculous amount of time required to get the hulls back into airworthy shape.

[SWBKCB]

Probably because of what you just said. They've been sitting around for 2 years in not exactly hot and dry locations (Saarbrucken/Weeze) and the lessors haven't been taking remedial care of them hence the ridiculous amount of time required to get the hulls back into airworthy shape.

I think the problem is more around how the issue has been dealt with - why wasn't it spotted earlier and steps taken? Weren't we told that the frames being returned to service had been picked to be the best of the bunch?

[SealinkBF]

The statement can be found here: https://www.flybe.com/en/support/summer2022

So BHD-SOU will have BE, EI and T3 operating?! Although of course BHD LHR has three airlines, albeit two with same parent. BA, BE and EI.

[BA318]

As I've said before Flybe has a contract with the lessor to deliver the aircraft, it's the lessors responsibility to get the aircraft delivered on time and make sure those aircraft stayed in a serviceable condition for the last two years. From experience most lessors will do the bare minimum to them to keep them legal without paying out big money to keep them ready to fly away in days. Flybe signed the original contract last year so they've given the lessor & maintenance plenty of time to get these aircraft ready. Unfortunately, it hasn't worked out as anticipated which is very disappointing! I have to actually wonder myself why they didn't purchase a few Q400s to have a bit more control of availability rather than solely relying on leasing.

But let’s not pretend this is completely out of Flybe’s hands. Surely they knew earlier on - they raised the fares last month yet still kept the flights open. Ultimately they made the deal with the lessors and they should have made safeguards for such an instance.

[BA318]

Ryanair are going to provide some competition. Launching BFS to STN, EDI, MAN and EMA.

[SWBKCB]

All things BE will be getting the lessors to ramp up.

Just about sums up the approach. Remind us again how long the launch of the airline was delayed?

[BA318]

But I'm sure you know better about the inner workings of Flybe.

of course not but it’s not out of the question to have back up plans. BA rightly gets stick for over selling seats it can’t provide and it’s gone to great lengths to lease in others from Iberia and Finnair.

Flybe tried to go up against others and didn’t have the equipment or a plan. Now passengers who trusted Flybe will have to make alternative arrangements likely at a higher cost as it’s now closer to their travel dates.

All the cheerleaders told us everything was sorted, Flybe had the pick of planes and chose the best.

Emerald doesn’t seem to have had similar issues sourcing a regional jet fleet so evidently it was possible, or at least possible to sell seats based on what was realistic.

If the lessor specifically promised planes by a certain date any decent contract should have some kind of compensation clause so you’d hope they at least get something out of this.

[biddedout]

Probably because of what you just said. They've been sitting around for 2 years in not exactly hot and dry locations (Saarbrucken/Weeze) and the lessors haven't been taking remedial care of them hence the ridiculous amount of time required to get the hulls back into airworthy shape.

There are some lovely 175's basking in the sunshine near Lisbon. I bet they will start up on the first turn of the key.

I'll get my coat.

[davidjohnson6]

When Flybe v1 went bust in early 2020... why were the aircraft stored in northern Europe, rather than somewhere like Teruel ? Or, if Covid prevented that from happening initially... why were the aircraft not moved in maybe June or July 2020 ? Was it simply leasing companies panicking about a severe outflow of cash and worried that they would go bankrupt ?

[TartinTon]

When Flybe v1 went bust in early 2020... why were the aircraft stored in northern Europe, rather than somewhere like Teruel ? Or, if Covid prevented that from happening initially... why were the aircraft not moved in maybe June or July 2020 ? Was it simply leasing companies panicking about a severe outflow of cash and worried that they would go bankrupt ?

Better ask the lessors? I would assume that the airports chosen were the cheapest and then covid hit and they laid off the majority of their workforces.

[davidjohnson6]

I don't know a huge amount about the mechanics of leasing aircraft.... but when one plans to enter into a contract for a few months, is it normal to do a (brief) test flight - i.e. up in the air and fly a bit around the airfield - and get an engineer to do a brief inspection of the aircraft prior to signing with wet ink ? If the aircraft is in a poor state, I'd be rather dubious about relying on it verbal promises of "don't worry, we'll patch it up"
When buying a house, I'd want to do a survey at my own cost before putting in an offer, and then (post exchange, pre completion) I'd want to have another brief look around the property to make sure there's been no disasters (i.e. roof has not collapsed). Footballers get a thorough medical before any transfer document gets signed

If some sort of inspection pre-signing is normal, why were the technical issues with the planned-to-be-leased aircraft not spotted in advance ?
Apologies if this sounds terribly naive, and I'm not trying to have a go at Flybe, but I'm just genuinely puzzled as to why Flybe hasn't got the aircraft it expected from lessors, in the condition it expected

[BA318]

Another anti Flybe post by you BA318, it's kind of getting boring & predictable now. Have you even ever worked in the airline industry???

Yep I have and I now work with corporate contracts where we’d never agree a deal that left us in the lurch if the other side didn’t provide what they said they would.

I missed the memo that I have to be supportive of Flybe. As I’ve said before we’re each entitled to our views and this is a forum to discuss it. I’m sure Bean will be along shortly to back you up though.

[BA318]

I don't know a huge amount about the mechanics of leasing aircraft.... but when one plans to enter into a contract for a few months, is it normal to do a (brief) test flight - i.e. up in the air and fly a bit around the airfield - and get an engineer to do a brief inspection of the aircraft prior to signing with wet ink ? If the aircraft is in a poor state, I'd be rather dubious about relying on it verbal promises of "don't worry, we'll patch it up"
When buying a house, I'd want to do a survey at my own cost before putting in an offer, and then (post exchange, pre completion) I'd want to have another brief look around the property to make sure there's been no disasters (i.e. roof has not collapsed). Footballers get a thorough medical before any transfer document gets signed

If some sort of inspection pre-signing is normal, why were the technical issues with the planned-to-be-leased aircraft not spotted in advance ?
Apologies if this sounds terribly naive, and I'm not trying to have a go at Flybe, but I'm just genuinely puzzled as to why Flybe hasn't got the aircraft it expected from lessors, in the condition it expected

Exactly the point I’ve raised. It shouldn’t be a shock that the planes are not ready.

Emerald have managed to get their fleet in order and announce new routes when they know they can operate them.

[Albert Hall]

It is a fair point - according to Jethros fleet lists, Emerald look to have taken 11 ATR72s and Loganair have taken 5 ATRs this year, many of which have come through the same Exeter MRO that Flybe's Q400s have been into. Most of those Emerald and Loganair aircraft have been in storage for a couple of years too and NAC is one of the leasing companies involved all round. The problem is either very specific to the Q400 or specific to Flybe.

The new schedule has them thinly spread across a lot of markets. easyJet, Emerald, Loganair and the likes must be laughing.

[brian_dromey]

In their defence Bombardier has transferred ownership of the Q400 to a new entity, so that wont have helped. Eastern have recalled a wet-lease E-190 from TAP to cover their unavailable fleet. FlyBe are (by all accounts) a new airline so delays are quite common and their fleet ramp-up was ambitious. That is before difficulties recruiting and getting security checks for crew are taken into account.

I think a few things have happened all at once, rather than one single disaster as flyBe are trying to spin.

[SWBKCB]

In their defence Bombardier has transferred ownership of the Q400 to a new entity, so that wont have helped.

Again, not a secret...

[Wycombe]

The problem is either very specific to the Q400 or specific to Flybe.

Previous posts on a Flybe FB group suggested that spares availability was causing the delays but I've seen no more than that

[Wycombe]

By my reckoning (and using FR24 data per aircraft) Flybe operated 44 sectors with their current 6 aircraft yesterday (4 Q400's and the leased-in ATR72 and E175)
That is impressive utilisation, but also means there is little room for things to go wrong.

Worth also pointing out that there were only a couple of those 44 sectors with a delay of around 1hr or less (nothing worse than that), and the vast majority operated to schedule (or in the case of the E175 sectors, some a bit early)

One can only hope that this continues and that some decent no's are being carried.

Having said that, and referring to some of the posts above, one hopes that the decision to go with an aircraft that is out of production, and where the OEM is no longer directly involved are not proving to be a big risk to the success of this venture.

[SealinkBF]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/617x781/screenshot_2022_07_08_093811_3053a5c5bcde5b462bcaa9586b8de81 e1ecbc448.jpg

[Wycombe]

Very unfortunate that Flybe have had to make these decisions, however it's a testament to good management at v2 that they're making big changes now rather than tickle around the edges.

It's through no real fault of Flybe, more on the head of the lessors and their inability to deliver additional Q400 airframes. Flybe uniquely affected by this, and the regional operation reliant on the Q400 and its unavailability.

1 more airframe should be operational soon, when it's back from Malta.
That aircraft (FLBA) returned from MLA a few days ago and is in service today.

[BA318]

On time performance seems a lot better the past week. If they can keep it up it will help to be a real differentiation between them and their rivals.

[BA318]

https://twitter.com/LondonAirTravel/status/1547259578395623427?s=20&t=XoeWfkRavS41f5g4bIEcPA

A shame just as flights were operating consistently on schedule. I hope LHR plan to compensate carriers accordingly.

Does anyone know if they will continue to operate just with the passengers already sold tickets or these are effectively cancelled?

[Asturias56]

"I hope LHR plan to compensate carriers accordingly."

ho ho ho

[TartinTon]

Flights are still planned to operate although LHR is also to impose mandatory cancellations targetted by terminal and time slots which they will apparently inform the airlines of today

[Buster the Bear]

Source of airframes....

https://www.laranews.net/airbaltics-q400-fleet-to-return-to-lessor-nordic-aviation-capital/

[Buster the Bear]

G-JECL droned overhead Alton yesterday at 1325 heading for Exeter.

[Wycombe]

G-JECL droned overhead Alton yesterday at 1325 heading for Exeter.
This is one of the next airframes earmarked for a "return" to service along with FLBB.
2 aircraft are also apparently soon to be registered, previously in service with LOT
More routes starting later this week, namely BHX to GLA and EDI
Frequency increases also now in effect on some other routes, notably BHD to GLA (up to 3 daily) and LBA (up to 4)
The airline also made its return to SOU over the weekend, with flights to and from BHD and onwards to AVN and TLN

[ATNotts]

The airline also made its return to SOU over the weekend, with flights to and from BHD and onwards to AVN and TLN

Be careful, in referring to the airline making "its return" you are borderline suggesting that Mk.2 is not a new business, but a reincarnation of the old one!!:ok: Using the term "brand" - one that I detest - is probably more accurate.

[Wycombe]

Be careful, in referring to the airline making "its return" you are borderline suggesting that Mk.2 is not a new business, but a reincarnation of the old one!!:ok: Using the term "brand" - one that I detest - is probably more accurate.
Fully aware of the situation :O but bearing in mind that so far all of the Dashes that have entered service with BEE Mk2 are from BEE Mk1 (a situation that looks like it's going to change soon) and that they have the same ICAO code and callsign, those who are less up to speed on the details could be forgiven for thinking otherwise :ok:

[Wycombe]

News leaking out on social media that a SOU base is to be confirmed (not sure on timing, but suspect for W22)

[southamptonavgeek]

News leaking out on social media that a SOU base is to be confirmed (not sure on timing, but suspect for W22)

Was that not posted by "SeanM" on Twitter a few months ago?

[Wycombe]

Was that not posted by "SeanM" on Twitter a few months ago?
He posted on 12th June...."UNCONFIRMED: Are Flybe looking at launching a Southampton base? Looking at slots - they seem interested in adding Edinburgh, Glasgow, Jersey, Manchester and Newcastle in Winter 2022 (in addition to keeping Belfast City), and who knows what else. Of course, this is very early days"

So looks like that was speculation based on slot applications?

[Rivet Joint]

He posted on 12th June...."UNCONFIRMED: Are Flybe looking at launching a Southampton base? Looking at slots - they seem interested in adding Edinburgh, Glasgow, Jersey, Manchester and Newcastle in Winter 2022 (in addition to keeping Belfast City), and who knows what else. Of course, this is very early days"

So looks like that was speculation based on slot applications?

Bit conflicted by this. T3 absolutely need to be pushed out of the airport with the way they just cancel flights when they want and I guess LM do charge a lot using there little 145s but wouldn’t want SOU becoming completely dominated by BE again. Not healthy for an airport to be so reliant on one airline.

[Albert Hall]

I can’t think SOU management will let that concentration happen again, now having a pretty balanced airline customer group including KLM, BA CityFlyer, Aer Lingus by Emerald, Loganair, Aurigny and Blue Islands. They just need a bit more leisure capacity, Air France in some shape and then Aer Lingus Regional on DUB as well as BHD.

Eastern do seem to have sealed their own fate at SOU with things like suspending Manchester for two months (during rail strikes and Heathrow disruption too) suggesting that they’re less than serious.

Chucking Flybe into the middle of this mix and them competing with almost everyone else - KLM, Loganair, Emerald, Blue Islands and so - will just cause no end of mess and potentially some long term damage. We‘be all seen routes go from one carrier to two and then to none.

[SWBKCB]

I can’t think SOU management will let that concentration happen again,

And how would SOU management stop it happening?

[BA318]

Appears BHD-MAN has been removed from sale from mid Aug.

[CabinCrewe]

Appears BHD-MAN has been removed from sale from mid Aug.
Good old Twitter! Well that didn’t last long. Whats next for the chop

[TCAS FAN]

And how would SOU management stop it happening?

Agree, looking at the near empty apron a week ago if someone comes along and indicates that they are going to base 2, 3 or more aircraft they are going to welcome them with open arms, together with the start up incentive deals.

[Albert Hall]

Any airport is able to use commercial terms - discounts from the published fees - to influence airline route behaviour to a greater or lesser extent. I’d heard a few airports were taking a cautious approach to Flybe. I’m sure if they roll up at SOU wanting to fly to Paris, La Rochelle and maybe even Dublin and Manchester then a deal would be on the table. Amsterdam, Jersey, Belfast, Edinburgh, Glasgow ? Not so sure.

[stewyb]

SOU don’t care which airline operates what route, if the deal is right for them they will welcome whomever with open arms, fact!

[davidjohnson6]

SOU as a profit-seeking company should care very much about ensuring no single airline customer is too dominant in their business, unless SOU receives very good terms from that customer (eg airline pays full published price for SOU's services with fees paid for several months up front in a deposit account). SOU learned the hard way in the last 2 years why this is important

[SWBKCB]

SOU as a profit-seeking company should care very much about ensuring no single airline customer is too dominant in their business, unless SOU receives very good terms from that customer (eg airline pays full published price for SOU's services with fees paid for several months up front in a deposit account). SOU learned the hard way in the last 2 years why this is important

But how do they control that without falling foul of anti-competition rules?

[wanna]

Its also not just as simple as saying we want to fly from A - B airport. The airports may offer some deals, the company may be happy to pay full rates on fees.. but is there a market for it? Over the last few years we've seen a lot of companies saying they will do this, that and the other on the regional market and it doesn't always come through.

Business travel has changed the whole market has changed, routes that historically were very good maybe not so much now, where as other routes can charge a premium and they will still have good loads. CI's and BHD out of SOU are good examples of this. You cant drive easily to either, and both have good load factors and the CIs dont have cheap fares by any means.

[Rivet Joint]

SOU don’t care which airline operates what route, if the deal is right for them they will welcome whomever with open arms, fact!

Simply not true. Do you think the runway extension which has been many years in the making was for BEs benefit? They clearly want to attract one of the big low cost airlines which would be completely game changing for the airport and the local area. Having a BE base makes it a harder sell for SOU.

Of course SOU are not going to turn away business and can’t do much even if they wanted to but the routes hinted at above are all routes already served by other airlines and would clearly indicate BEs intentions to come into SOU and push all other competition out and have a monopoly again. There are still a fair routes left unserved like CDG, MAN etc. Whilst the incumbent carriers aren’t the best, outside KLM, this is not healthy for any airport. I’d like to think BE, EZY and KLM could all operate at SOU together. BE for regional routes, EZY to Europe and KLM to offer the world connections. I suspect they would all want to fly to AMS though so not going to happen.

[stewyb]

Simply not true. Do you think the runway extension which has been many years in the making was for BEs benefit? They clearly want to attract one of the big low cost airlines which would be completely game changing for the airport and the local area. Having a BE base makes it a harder sell for SOU.

Of course SOU are not going to turn away business and can’t do much even if they wanted to but the routes hinted at above are all routes already served by other airlines and would clearly indicate BEs intentions to come into SOU and push all other competition out and have a monopoly again. There are still a fair routes left unserved like CDG, MAN etc. Whilst the incumbent carriers aren’t the best, outside KLM, this is not healthy for any airport. I’d like to think BE, EZY and KLM could all operate at SOU together. BE for regional routes, EZY to Europe and KLM to offer the world connections. I suspect they would all want to fly to AMS though so not going to happen.

I repeat, SOU doesn’t care who operates what routes as long as its financially viable and commercially successful, this I know. I agree that another BE monopoly would not be ideal although footfall through the terminal is ultimately king. Also remember BE or any other regional are not in competition with the likes of EZY and there is very much room for both!

[TartinTon]

Simply not true. Do you think the runway extension which has been many years in the making was for BEs benefit? They clearly want to attract one of the big low cost airlines which would be completely game changing for the airport and the local area. Having a BE base makes it a harder sell for SOU.

Of course SOU are not going to turn away business and can’t do much even if they wanted to but the routes hinted at above are all routes already served by other airlines and would clearly indicate BEs intentions to come into SOU and push all other competition out and have a monopoly again. There are still a fair routes left unserved like CDG, MAN etc. Whilst the incumbent carriers aren’t the best, outside KLM, this is not healthy for any airport. I’d like to think BE, EZY and KLM could all operate at SOU together. BE for regional routes, EZY to Europe and KLM to offer the world connections. I suspect they would all want to fly to AMS though so not going to happen.

BE and KL co-existed quite happily before. As did BE/AF. A mutually beneficial relationship with BE feeding the hubs and KL/AF underpinning the BE operation. Makes sense to me and suits all parties.

[Albert Hall]

BE and KL absolutely did not coexist at SOU. It was a mess for both and KL withdrew before returning only after BE Mk1 had departed this life.

And I didn’t think the Aer Lingus or BA brands were too shabby ?

None of the core routes at SOU are strong enough to take two carriers in competition. All are good single carrier routes and poor two-airline routes - they’re just not thick enough to warrant two airlines. The airport has never sustained it and nor will it either.

The ongoing fantasy of easyJet at SOU is clearly too much for some to resist. The runway extension will help current carriers who are payload restricted even on an ATR72 some days, let alone an E145. It will also help with some more leisure flying and there are two options - neither easyJet - that I can think of which would work well to deliver it.

[stewyb]

BE and KL absolutely did not coexist at SOU. It was a mess for both and KL withdrew before returning only after BE Mk1 had departed this life.

And I didn’t think the Aer Lingus or BA brands were too shabby ?

None of the core routes at SOU are strong enough to take two carriers in competition. All are good single carrier routes and poor two-airline routes - they’re just not thick enough to warrant two airlines. The airport has never sustained it and nor will it either.

The ongoing fantasy of easyJet at SOU is clearly too much for some to resist. The runway extension will help current carriers who are payload restricted even on an ATR72 some days, let alone an E145. It will also help with some more leisure flying and there are two options - neither easyJet - that I can think of which would work well to deliver it.

for your information EZY are very interested in SOU for the future!👍

[RW20]

The runway extension ( when it happens) will help with payloads,but the on going persistence with Easy seting up a base is pie in the sky!
The airport would need a 7000 ft runway and larger/ increased stands,something that it can't offer,unlike down the road at Bournemouth.
Let's hope that investment leads to a much needed northern taxiway to stop all the backtracking,and further development of bis jet facilities .
SOU can survive and prosper with the runway extension and airside investment,but it cant rival Bournemouth for the sun routes.

[stewyb]

The runway extension ( when it happens) will help with payloads,but the on going persistence with Easy seting up a base is pie in the sky!
The airport would need a 7000 ft runway and larger/ increased stands,something that it can't offer,unlike down the road at Bournemouth.
Let's hope that investment leads to a much needed northern taxiway to stop all the backtracking,and further development of bis jet facilities .
SOU can survive and prosper with the runway extension and airside investment,but it cant rival Bournemouth for the sun routes.

Doesn’t need to be an EZY base to add a select number of routes!

[RW20]

Difficult to see what select routes can be added,considering Bournemouth has the sun routes tied up,certainty Paris for example coudnt fill a 320,but may be a flybe 400?
Realistically given the runway extension Easy or other operators could offer some seasonally Summer weekly operations,but it's going to be limited, look at Southend as a example, runway extension,stands( more the SOU) and airside improvements,now virtually without daytime operations!

[TCAS FAN]

SOU can survive and prosper with the runway extension and airside investment,but it cant rival Bournemouth for the sun routes.

Please define “sun route”

While I am being pedantic, in the interests of technical correctness should you not be “RWY20”, or maybe “RWY26”?

[TartinTon]

BE and KL absolutely did not coexist at SOU. It was a mess for both and KL withdrew before returning only after BE Mk1 had departed this life.

And I didn’t think the Aer Lingus or BA brands were too shabby ?

None of the core routes at SOU are strong enough to take two carriers in competition. All are good single carrier routes and poor two-airline routes - they’re just not thick enough to warrant two airlines. The airport has never sustained it and nor will it either.

The ongoing fantasy of easyJet at SOU is clearly too much for some to resist. The runway extension will help current carriers who are payload restricted even on an ATR72 some days, let alone an E145. It will also help with some more leisure flying and there are two options - neither easyJet - that I can think of which would work well to deliver it.

Sorry to correct you but BE and KL did co-exist in the sense that they codeshared on the routes happily until BE started to over-expand (in KLs eyes) on MAN/BHX AMS routes at which point they threw their toys out of the pram and pulled the codeshare.

Previous to that they had a mutually beneficial co-operation.

[Wycombe]

Emerald are increasing BHD-SOU to 2 daily on some days starting from around the August Bank Holiday weekend.

With 2 daily Eastern (most days) and daily BEE this means there will now be more capacity on this route than there ever was pre-pandemic (it was usually up to 3 daily BEE Mk1)

Can't see this being sustainable.

[wanna]

Emerald do seem to be putting a lot of effort into establishing themselves, arguably a little more than Flybe. Emerald have the benefit of the backing of the Aer Lingus brand and booking systems, a recognised brand in Ireland as well as the U.K. Between them and Loganair they do seem to be tying up the regional market.

For anyone confused about the Runway at SOU, even Flybe Mk1 had restrictions from time to time on the Dash especially when operating some of the longer flights, a tech stop on a hot day wasn't unheard of. Combine this with LM, SI, T3 and GR all operating aircraft that are restricted its obvious that the extension is more to benefit the regional market and to ensure those aircraft can depart full rather than to create an attractive airport for someone like Easy.

If Flybe do have the resources and will to set up a base at SOU hopefully it will be much more successful than T3, however if it was a case of putting eggs in baskets I think they should focus more on LM and Emerald.

[Rivet Joint]

Emerald do seem to be putting a lot of effort into establishing themselves, arguably a little more than Flybe. Emerald have the benefit of the backing of the Aer Lingus brand and booking systems, a recognised brand in Ireland as well as the U.K. Between them and Loganair they do seem to be tying up the regional market.

For anyone confused about the Runway at SOU, even Flybe Mk1 had restrictions from time to time on the Dash especially when operating some of the longer flights, a tech stop on a hot day wasn't unheard of. Combine this with LM, SI, T3 and GR all operating aircraft that are restricted its obvious that the extension is more to benefit the regional market and to ensure those aircraft can depart full rather than to create an attractive airport for someone like Easy.

If Flybe do have the resources and will to set up a base at SOU hopefully it will be much more successful than T3, however if it was a case of putting eggs in baskets I think they should focus more on LM and Emerald.

I don’t think anyone is confused. Restrictions for existing aircraft is common knowledge. LM themselves have said it affects their 145s.

I would be very surprised if any of you think SOU is investing many millions of pounds just to help the existing carriers operate a bit better. No company makes a large investment for such a small gain. Remember airports get money from landing fees, footfall etc. they want to open up a new revenue stream and take the next step in development which means bigger aircraft and more passengers. I agree it’s odd that they aren’t also creating the bigger stands etc but that’s likely phase 2.

To anyone who thinks EZY wouldn’t be a success at SOU you must be forgetting a large chunk of LGWs customers come from this area and Hampshire is one of the wealthiest counties in the country. If EZY could offer the same fairs at SOU as they do at LGW then why wouldn’t people use SOU? Your next question no doubt will be what’s in it for EZY? Why split a base? Competition. Lots at LGW and none at SOU.

Getting back to BE I hope they do open more routes at SOU but focus on MAN, CDG, French second home market and maybe the Scottish routes.

[willy wombat]

While SOU would definitely be attractive for some (not necessarily a large chunk) of EZY’s LGW customers, EZY will obviously continue to firstly maximise their LGW slot base. If/when they get to the point that no more significant expansion is possible at LGW then SOU could get interesting. In the meantime they could try the odd W pattern to test the water.

[RW20]

Willy wombat, your points make sense and are more realistic.unfortunately some contributors on here can get carried away

[Albert Hall]

Back to Flybe also. The routes from NCL, ABZ, INV to BHD were all new, so it’s apparent why they might need new aircraft deliveries to fly them. They were already flying MAN but are stopping - is this related to aircraft deliveries also?

[stewyb]

Willy wombat, your points make sense and are more realistic.unfortunately some contributors on here can get carried away

not me fella, said all along EZY will most likely come in with some away base routes initially!

[TartinTon]

Back to Flybe also. The routes from NCL, ABZ, INV to BHD were all new, so it’s apparent why they might need new aircraft deliveries to fly them. They were already flying MAN but are stopping - is this related to aircraft deliveries also?

Yep. There was supposed to be an aircraft arriving 25Jul which clearly hasn't and it looks like they've decided that it's more important to have a standby from 15Aug than fly 7 lines with 7 airframes which they will be doing until then.

Seems like a sensible decision.

[jethro15]

There was supposed to be an aircraft arriving 25Jul
Put back 1-2 weeks

[Wycombe]

If Flybe do have the resources and will to set up a base at SOU hopefully it will be much more successful than T3, however if it was a case of putting eggs in baskets I think they should focus more on LM and Emerald.

Logan's MD has stated that they won't open bases outside their core of Scotland and the North and as an island of Ireland-based operation I can't see Emerald doing that either. A mix of those together with a small Flybe base, picking up what Eastern are failing at (flights canx again today) and some of the solid routes operated by their previous incarnation are probably the best (least risk) option for both the airline and the airport.

[SKOJB]

Would image SOU base opening end October to coincide with Winter timetable with CDG, DUB and MAN added!

[davidjohnson6]

Logan's MD has stated that they won't open bases outside their core of Scotland and the North
The statement of "not interested in bases outside Scotland and northern England" was made in spring 2020, over 2 years ago, when the UK was in its first lockdown.
MOL of Ryanair said they would never fly to FRA, but they did.

I'm not saying Loganair will or won't do X or Y, but one should remember that the passage of time and structural changes in the market allows CEOs a convenient reason to change their minds on many things if so desired

[toledoashley]

Been browsing the trustpilot reviews of Flybe, seems to be a lot of bot/fake reviews and grievances with the previous Flybe! I get things aren't perfect with the new company by a long shot but for example people saying the LHR - Belfast flights have been delayed on a certain date, I've then gone to check Flight Radar for those flights..... no delays showing or if they do show it's less than 10 minutes. Surely Trustpilot should be regulating this a bit more?

Not that I would accuse anyone of doing this - but could it be derived from competitors?

[BA318]

Been browsing the trustpilot reviews of Flybe, seems to be a lot of bot/fake reviews and grievances with the previous Flybe! I get things aren't perfect with the new company by a long shot but for example people saying the LHR - Belfast flights have been delayed on a certain date, I've then gone to check Flight Radar for those flights..... no delays showing or if they do show it's less than 10 minutes. Surely Trustpilot should be regulating this a bit more?

Are you just going by the date the review was left or do they explicitly mention the date in their complaint? If it’s the review date I suspect many are not done at the time and rather a day or two later.

Trustpilot doesn’t care enough to regulate such things. Looking at it, it seems lost/not carried baggage is a far bigger concern something I also noticed from comments on Twitter.

[Beanjet]

Does anyone know when the winter 2022 flights will go on sale please?

[Flightrider]

Unless they are making a complete horlicks of their CAA statistics submission (which I guess is a possibility) then May's CAA figures do not make for happy reading.

Flybe Q400 fleet has 10,024 passengers uplifted across 654 stage flights so an average of 15.3 passengers per flight. Looking at the data another way, they had 18,694,000 seat km available and the report states 3,677,000 used which gives you the same answer - 19.6% load factor.

[TartinTon]

Does anyone know when the winter 2022 flights will go on sale please?

I've heard that it's due to be this week

[BA318]

Unless they are making a complete horlicks of their CAA statistics submission (which I guess is a possibility) then May's CAA figures do not make for happy reading.

Flybe Q400 fleet has 10,024 passengers uplifted across 654 stage flights so an average of 15.3 passengers per flight. Looking at the data another way, they had 18,694,000 seat km available and the report states 3,677,000 used which gives you the same answer - 19.6% load factor.

I wonder if Emerald and others are also suffering or it’s just Flybe.

[CabinCrewe]

I wonder if Emerald and others are also suffering or it’s just Flybe.
Suspect its the latter. Previous passengers who flew BE have no idea theyre ‘back’ with zero advertising, and hotch potch of third party operators… not really a great look.

[Flightrider]

Using the CAA May figures and calculating load factor by RPK / ASK (which is technically the way it should be done, as opposed to seat-factor - so the figures are stage-length adjusted), you get:

Aurigny 64.9%
BA CityFlyer 72.9%
Blue Islands 66.2%
British Airways 78.9% (short-haul Airbus fleet only)
Eastern Airways 57.3%
easyJet UK 82.4%
Flybe 19.7%
Loganair 63.4%
Ryanair UK 77.6% (8 UK aircraft reported)

So you broadly have three groups - easyJet, BA and Ryanair at relatively high load factors (although below the sold seat factors they announce), then the UK regional operators all in a fairly narrow band between 57% and 66%, and then Flybe at 19%. I'm wondering if the figures are correct - they are so bad that it's hard to imagine. But the CAA only report the data that airlines submit to them, so if there is an error then the strong likelihood is it's from Flybe's own data.

[The96er]

Suspect its the latter. Previous passengers who flew BE have no idea theyre ‘back’ with zero advertising, and hotch potch of third party operators… not really a great look.

Using the short time they operated the MAN-BHD as an example, the Flybe loadfactors were very low in comparison the Emerald. As quoted, the use of 3rd party operators for most of the flights was not a good look and a much reduced frequency compared to Emerald didn’t help either. All that is before you get to the complicated hand baggage policies and you can see why EI have seemingly won the BHD battle - ex MAN at least.

[BHD2BFS]

Have Emerald released their figures to the CAA to give a comparison? I don't seem then on the list

[TartinTon]

I've been reliably told that Flybe's loads are averaging in the mid to high 50s% with a couple of routes well into the 80%s...I suspect it's the usual garbage from the CAAs website. Their figures have been highly suspect for a number of years now when they used to be so good. Lots of missing data.

[BHX5DME]

I've been reliably told that Flybe's loads are averaging in the mid to high 50s% with a couple of routes well into the 80%s...I suspect it's the usual garbage from the CAAs website. Their fugures have been highly suspect for a number of years now when the used to be so good. lots of missing data.
BHX-AMS is certainly performing very well

[Flightrider]

The CAA operator figures are based on data supplied by the UK AOC holder, so if the data is garbage, it can't be anything other than the garbage that has been supplied by Flybe to the CAA. It's a different data collection methodology to the monthly pax figures by route which are supplied by airports and are erratic, particularly when multi-leg flights are involved.

Emerald is operating on an Irish AOC and so doesn't supply data to the UK CAA. That will change if/when it gets its UK AOC, just as for Ryanair.

[SWBKCB]

Emerald is operating on an Irish AOC and so doesn't supply data to the UK CAA. That will change if/when it gets its UK AOC, just as for Ryanair.

If you look at the entry for Domestic scheduled flights there are details for Aer Lingus UK - is this for the EI BHD-LHR flights?

[Flightrider]

It quotes data for an A321-200 Neo and an A330 so unless those aircraft types were deployed on BHD-LHR (which I'd doubt!!) then the data will relate to the aircraft being operated on the UK AOC.

Going back to the key point, if the Flybe data isn't what's actually happening, they need to get their s**t together in terms of the data they're giving to the CAA. I can't imagine for one moment that the CAA is making this up.

[jmdavies86]

The CAA operator figures are based on data supplied by the UK AOC holder, so if the data is garbage, it can't be anything other than the garbage that has been supplied by Flybe to the CAA.

Granted mistakes can/do occasionally happen, but isn't it a legal requirement for an operator to provide accurate & full information to the regulator; can the CAA issue any kind of fine/penalties if it's deemed that the data they've provided is inaccurate/mis-leading in anyway?

If you look at the entry for Domestic scheduled flights there are details for Aer Lingus UK - is this for the EI BHD-LHR flights?

It quotes data for an A321-200 Neo and an A330 so unless those aircraft types were deployed on BHD-LHR (which I'd doubt!!) then the data will relate to the aircraft being operated on the UK AOC.

For reference, Aer Lingus UK is based at MAN; the A321 and A330 that are on the AOC fly to BGI, JFK & MCO.

[SWBKCB]

For reference, Aer Lingus UK is based at MAN; the A321 and A330 that are on the AOC fly to BGI, JFK & MCO.

But looking at this link shows details for Domestic Scheduled Services May 2022?

https://www.caa.co.uk/Documents/Download/9081/108b2f9e-74be-47cc-8689-b2789d22ca43/3193

[northsands]

[QUOTE=SWBKCB;11278758]But looking at this link shows details for Domestic Scheduled Services May 2022?

I queried this with CAA a few weeks back, see their e-mail response to me below:
CAA answers in red

Please can you clarify for me the recent data included in your UK Airline Data tables under the Aer Lingus (UK) Ltd name

Table 4 Scheduled Service activity data is shown for both Other International and UK Domestic operations. Correct in recent months, at start of operations only international

Table 8.2 Aircraft Type & Utilisation Individual Airlines shows data which appears to correspond only to the International component. Yes this is correct as the domestic service uses ‘wet leased’ in aircraft

Does therefore the Domestic activity data recorded primarily relate to either (a) Aer Lingus BHD - LHR schedules by A320 series, or (b) Aer Lingus Regional operations out of BHD, operated by Emerald Airways ATR72, or (c) a combination of the two? Or something else??

Yes these relate to domestic LHR – BHD and vv operations, they are currently Aer Lingus UK scheduled services but operated on a ‘wet lease’ basis at the moment by Aer Lingus (EI) A320 aircraft.

[biddedout]

An interesting response from the CAA Northsands.

I have been pondering these figures too and wondering if Flybe management have been questioning why the CAA and DFT appear to be bending over backwards to make life easy for Aer Lingus, BA and IAG to virtually monopolise the BHD LHR route. It looks like over 60% of the passengers carried by the supposedly UK company - Aer Lingus UK are being done on a wet lease basis allowing Aer Lingus the convenient flexibility of not needing to put another Airbus on the UK register. One airframe has been running for years on this UK domestic route without interruption so they have had plenty time to sort this. There isn't even a need to get the crews a UK licence so long as they are allowed to do it as a wet lease. Flybe hopefully are demanding that if EI want to do this route, they should get a G-reg or bugger off, particularly considering the legal battles and appeals that Flybe had to go through with the CAA etc. to just to prise those remedy slots out of BA's mitts.

Similar for Emerald. Everyone else has been shafted and has had to quickly adapt to comply the new regime , so why are Emerald being given an easy ride. They have had a couple of years to get a UK AOC running but still no sign. Yet more UK domestic flights not directly regulated by the CAA and not on the G register. If the CAA continue to allow this excessive wet-easing, then they will soon run out of airlines to regulate.

Ryanair must be a bit miffed too after setting up R(UK) to cover UK domestics when it looks like they could have just wet leased.

[BHD2BFS]

With the loads factors of 19% according to the CAA, expensive wet leases and a large amount of cancellations and delays I would not think flybe's biggest concern is who has a UK licence.

[Downwind_Left]

An interesting response from the CAA Northsands.

I have been pondering these figures too and wondering if Flybe management have been questioning why the CAA and DFT appear to be bending over backwards to make life easy for Aer Lingus, BA and IAG to virtually monopolise the BHD LHR route. It looks like over 60% of the passengers carried by the supposedly UK company - Aer Lingus UK are being done on a wet lease basis allowing Aer Lingus the convenient flexibility of not needing to put another Airbus on the UK register. One airframe has been running for years on this UK domestic route without interruption so they have had plenty time to sort this. There isn't even a need to get the crews a UK licence so long as they are allowed to do it as a wet lease. Flybe hopefully are demanding that if EI want to do this route, they should get a G-reg or bugger off, particularly considering the legal battles and appeals that Flybe had to go through with the CAA etc. to just to prise those remedy slots out of BA's mitts.

Similar for Emerald. Everyone else has been shafted and has had to quickly adapt to comply the new regime , so why are Emerald being given an easy ride. They have had a couple of years to get a UK AOC running but still no sign. Yet more UK domestic flights not directly regulated by the CAA and not on the G register. If the CAA continue to allow this excessive wet-easing, then they will soon run out of airlines to regulate.

Ryanair must be a bit miffed too after setting up R(UK) to cover UK domestics when it looks like they could have just wet leased.

I believe the whole Aer Lingus BHD network is set up as British Airways flights operated by Aer Lingus in terms of licensing. So the proportion of wet leasing on that basis is tiny as a proportion of the UK carriers network. And lets face it, BA (and Cityflyer) have operated many of these flights themselves since the demise of Flybe. and Stobart Air.

[Alteagod]

I think Stobart had actually got the G reg on the fleet with stickers over it with the EI reg before they went under. I thought that Emerald operating under the BACF AOC. Could be wrong

[BHX5DME]

With the loads factors of 19% according to the CAA, expensive wet leases and a large amount of cancellations and delays I would not think flybe's biggest concern is who has a UK licence.

These figures are wrong, I understand BHX flights alone had more pax in total in May than the CAA total figures.

[davidjohnson6]

These figures are wrong, I understand BHX flights alone had more pax in total in May than the CAA total figures.
Why are the figures wrong ? Is Flybe sending the wrong numbers to the CAA or is the CAA mangling the data before it gets to their website ?

[BHX5DME]

Winter now loading on Flybe site

[The96er]

Winter now loading on Flybe site

Slots filed for a daily SOU-MAN. Nothing official though.

[Albert Hall]

They're holding 3 x daily SOU-MAN but from 2 March 2023 after cutting back the start date ahead of this week's deadline for unwanted Winter slots.

This winter schedule seems very weird. Why would you stop BHX-EDI and BHX-GLA at the end of the summer and restart on 24 November after a three-week gap? That doesn't look like a part-way-through-loading issue.

[CabinCrewe]

may be a gap in leasing or delivery?

[mart901]

Where are these timetables showing? Can't find them on the website, and do we have a launch date for them to go on sale ?

[TartinTon]

Where are these timetables showing? Can't find them on the website, and do we have a launch date for them to go on sale ?

I'm hearing Monday morning

[BHX5DME]

BHX-EDI and BHX-GLA both go 4 daily from 13.02.23

[nguba]

Does anybody know what this filing (see Registration of Charge created on 15th August) is about? Is it tax planning or Cyrus just protecting its interests?

Flybe Companies House Filing History (https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12875147/filing-history)

[BA318]

Hang on a fig pudding minute. The data is only collected from the airlines first month of ops in which case pax numbers are bound to be lower than an airline that's been going for years. On top of that you've got delayed Q400 deliveries and one Q400 taken out of service due to a heavy landing. I for one am getting pissed off with people who look at early data, rumours etc and then scream out "LOOK NEW FLYBE IS A FAILURE!!!" For god sakes give the guys a bloody chance! I would say you need to at least wait until September figures come out when the airline should finally be a lot more stable before making any kind of judgement. Let's not forget 12 months ago we had the same idiots making out new Flybe would never get off the ground and it was all a slot grab, look how utter garbage that has turned out to be.

Nobody has reacted in that way. Literally any questioning of things and you jump accusing others of wishing Flybe to fail or suggesting they already are. I don’t think many people want Flybe to fail but you can still question and ponder without it meaning you’re wishing failure upon them.

Considering we had users telling us the reason flights were not on sale was because they were fully sold out, and they were then dropped and now we’ve had people telling us Flybe has great loads and figures then revealed they didn’t, it seems the misinformation has come from those who try and put a positive spin on things. And of course as always we’ve had those who say it can’t possibly be Flybe and the CAA must have messed up, just like their leasing companies and every other group blamed for any problems.

It was mentioned before that Flybe said they could operate empty for two years and still survive so who knows maybe 19% is better than expected for month 1. Either way with the delays and cancellations it’s likely they didn’t make much money in month 1.

I await the “stop talking Flybe down” posts from Air Southwest and Bean shortly…

[BA318]

Interesting in the companies house filing is the list of domain names Flybe has registered (I assume to stop squatters for future opportunities and to stop bad ones) they include flybebreaks.com, flybefranchises.com and the more entertaining IhateFlybe.com, flybesucks.com and flybestinks.com

[SWBKCB]

Hang on a fig pudding minute. The data is only collected from the airlines first month of ops in which case pax numbers are bound to be lower than an airline that's been going for years. On top of that you've got delayed Q400 deliveries and one Q400 taken out of service due to a heavy landing. I for one am getting pissed off with people who look at early data, rumours etc and then scream out "LOOK NEW FLYBE IS A FAILURE!!!" For god sakes give the guys a bloody chance! I would say you need to at least wait until September figures come out when the airline should finally be a lot more stable before making any kind of judgement. Let's not forget 12 months ago we had the same idiots making out new Flybe would never get off the ground and it was all a slot grab, look how utter garbage that has turned out to be.

We also had people saying they would be hitting the ground running as they would have the pick of the aircraft from desperate leasing companies, best crew from the big available pool, etc...

June's figires are now largely available if anybody wants to crunch the numbers

[ATNotts]

Interesting in the companies house filing is the list of domain names Flybe has registered (I assume to stop squatters for future opportunities and to stop bad ones) they include flybebreaks.com, flybefranchises.com and the more entertaining IhateFlybe.com, flybesucks.com and flybestinks.com
Sound business sense I would say. Don't give trolls an easy ride.

[TartinTon]

Load factors for the first 4 months were 65.2% / 56.3% / 58.5% / 54.9%...CAA data to be updated with the proper numbers in the near future, I understand.

They are quite impressive when you consider that capacity growth was 403% Apr - May / 24% May- Jun and 50% Jun - Jul

[TartinTon]

It was mentioned before that Flybe said they could operate empty for two years and still survive so who knows maybe 19% is better than expected for month 1. Either way with the delays and cancellations it’s likely they didn’t make much money in month 1.



Name me ANY airline that makes money in month 1? I would assume that their expectation is to lose a large chunk of money in year one, a small amount in year 2 and break even small profit in year 3 as they ramp up operations.

That would be reasonable.

[BHX5DME]

Load factors for the first 4 months were 65.2% / 56.3% / 58.5% / 54.9%...CAA data to be updated with the proper numbers in the near future, I understand.

They are quite impressive when you consider that capacity growth was 403% Apr - May / 24% May- Jun and 50% Jun - Jul

Flybe
June = 24,158 pax with a LF of 53.4%, May was 100% wrong.
.
Aer Lingus UK - 60.5%
Eastern - 60.6%

So I would say a really good start by FlyBe

[willy wombat]

Let’s be honest. We don’t know the yield. Given Eastern’s pricing I would be willing to bet that their yield was a lot higher than Flybe’s.

[Albert Hall]

Right from the first posting the CAA reported numbers were so bad that there must be doubt if they were true. The numbers above look more in the ballpark of what you’d expect with some routes doing well and others like LBA-LHR dragging down the average. Interesting that we get the proper numbers here first though!

The Companies House document is interesting more for what it doesn’t say than what it does.

No shareholder is allowed under the CAA airline financing rules to take security over assets or intellectual property for their initial investment into an airline. The shareholder ranks behind all other creditors. This has now changed with the charges over Flybe assets and IP (which was the case with Cyrus investment into Flybe 1 also). If a charge has been registered then it means that additional money has gone in.

[CabinCrewe]

since when did 50% loads become great? I would have thought that was dire.

[Chesty Morgan]

30 passengers paying how much?

Back in the day when fuel was cheaper a figure of 35 passengers was mooted by Flybe for break even.

I suspect your figure of 30 is way wide of the mark these days.

[BA318]

30 passengers paying how much?

Back in the day when fuel was cheaper a figure of 35 passengers was mooted by Flybe for break even.

I suspect your figure of 30 is way wide of the mark these days.

Indeed. If they could break even at 30 pax on a Q400 Flybe1 would still be here.

Ryanair say their break even load factor is 55%. And they are masters at ancillary revenue, using dense 737s.

If they are making money carrying less than half a plane load of people at the fares they charge while paying for fuel, landing fees, crew costs, admin charges etc and all the other costs then well done. And if the load figures quoted are correct that means they should be on their way to making a healthy profit. Fantastic.

If this is true it’s wonderful and should allow plenty more routes to flourish.

[JobsaGoodun]

Unless they are making a complete horlicks of their CAA statistics submission (which I guess is a possibility) then May's CAA figures do not make for happy reading.

Flybe Q400 fleet has 10,024 passengers uplifted across 654 stage flights so an average of 15.3 passengers per flight. Looking at the data another way, they had 18,694,000 seat km available and the report states 3,677,000 used which gives you the same answer - 19.6% load factor.

I wouldn’t be be quite so quick to assume the worst of Flybe unless you’ve evidence to demonstrate that Flybe have provided the data? I’m fairly sure that there is no obligation on any airline to report their passenger numbers to the CAA for publication and that these figures come from reporting airports. I’m also not sure all airports are included in the data collected.

[ATNotts]

Anyone, including the owners could never have expected FlyBe to be turning a profit within two months of start up, especially given the equipment delivery issues they have suffered. Did any airline turn a profit within 8 weeks of kick-off?

[Albert Hall]

Come on Airsouthwest, if you’ve been in the industry for as long as the username suggests, you know that’s rubbish just as the rest of us do. 30 passengers at £39.99 less £13 APD and maybe a tenner a head to the airport is £509.70 nett income from the flight - that’s way below break even even against direct costs before you take fixed costs into the equation.

[JobsaGoodun]

30 passengers paying how much?

Back in the day when fuel was cheaper a figure of 35 passengers was mooted by Flybe for break even.

I suspect your figure of 30 is way wide of the mark these days.

This is an impossible metric to equate without knowing the yields Flybe (or any airline) is achieving. Old Flybe was achieving load factors of over 70% and still losing money hand over fist. I’d expect them to be aiming for at least this to break even, especially when selling low yielding tickets to win market share.

[JobsaGoodun]

Interesting in the companies house filing is the list of domain names Flybe has registered (I assume to stop squatters for future opportunities and to stop bad ones) they include flybebreaks.com, flybefranchises.com and the more entertaining IhateFlybe.com, flybesucks.com and flybestinks.com

Highly likely that this IP was purchased along with the brand, rather than the new airline specifically registering the domains,

[bean]

Indeed. If they could break even at 30 pax on a Q400 Flybe1 would still be here.

Ryanair say their break even load factor is 55%. And they are masters at ancillary revenue, using dense 737s.

If they are making money carrying less than half a plane load of people at the fares they charge while paying for fuel, landing fees, crew costs, admin charges etc and all the other costs then well done. And if the load figures quoted are correct that means they should be on their way to making a healthy profit. Fantastic.

If this is true it’s wonderful and should allow plenty more routes to flourish.
oh for gods sake. The figures were wrong
load factor was more than 50%. SO SORRY TO CARRY SUCH DISSAPOINTING NEWS

[SWBKCB]

I wouldn’t be be quite so quick to assume the worst of Flybe unless you’ve evidence to demonstrate that Flybe have provided the data? I’m fairly sure that there is no obligation on any airline to report their passenger numbers to the CAA for publication and that these figures come from reporting airports. I’m also not sure all airports are included in the data collected.

From the CAA website:Frequently asked questions - What is the souce of UK airline data? UK Airline data are provided by UK Air Operator's Certificate (AOC) holders.

https://www.caa.co.uk/data-and-analysis/uk-aviation-market/airlines/notes-and-faqs/

[SKOJB]

Chill pills need to be taken for a lot of users on this thread!

[BA318]

oh for gods sake. The figures were wrong
load factor was more than 50%. SO SORRY TO CARRY SUCH DISSAPOINTING NEWS

Calm down. As usual you’ve misread the post. I was referring to the comment that they need 30 pax to break even. That’s less than 50% while Ryanair say they need more. I just found that hard to believe. I didn’t even mention the actual load figure in the post.

If you continued to read the post you’ll see I said if it’s true it’s great. It means plenty of routes can be sustained and added.

Chill out a bit. It’s perfectly fine to discuss these things. We don’t have to agree and our discussions are not going to change anything either way.

[Albert Hall]

Airsouthwest, you are so far off the mark that it would be amusing if it wasn’t so sad. From all I’m told, Flybe has no fuel hedging so a “fixed price fuel agreement” is something they will probably have heard of but don’t have when it’s most needed.

I don’t know SWBKCB, BA318, Skipness 1E and others but I do think they have a closer grasp of the harsh realities than anything I’m seeing from you or Bean whose views seem closely aligned.

Time in the industry does not automatically create practical, usable experience. You can meet people with 30 years service who remain clueless and those with far less who are far more astute. Confusing the two is one of the most dangerous things you can do.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

Spot on. The usual pessimistic arseholes are out again. Awaiting responses from BA318 and Skipness One Foxtrot with their bull****. One reason why I don't come on the forum much these days armchair "experts" with no real experience in the industry only sitting behind a computer desk playing flight simulator and think after half hour they're somehow qualified to give an professional opinion that's supposedly more accurate than someone that's been in the industry 10 years LOL.
Ok I am senior data analyst with two decades working in P&L reporting and marketing analytics in SQL, SAS and Python, I am regularly asked to provide insight at C Suite level, I have also more than a few years working with travel industry clients, numbers and predictive models are my daily bread. Now if you can stop swearing like a wee boy in the playground for a minute, why don't you share your creds? When you say you've been in the industry for ten years, going by your utter lack of professionalsm, it's safe to say you're employed cleaning the bogs? There's no way you'd be trusted down the pointy end IMHO. This isn't personal, it's a fair commentary on the impact of flybe coming back from bankruptcy on others who managed to keep going.

[wanna]

Re the figures. If they aren't correct why were they submitted and secondly if they're not correct where are the official figures? All seems a little odd.

Its easy to think certain routes are doing very well and all is good. However Ive counted Pax off one of their leased ATRs, less than 20. Also keep in mind the leased in 170/175 will have a higher number of seats that would also help to lower the % number. Both the ATR and Embraer whilst not Flybe's are operating under the Flybe AOC so will still have their figures reported by Flybe.

[BA318]

Ok I am senior data analyst with two decades working in P&L reporting and marketing analytics in SQL, SAS and Python, I am regularly asked to provide insight at C Suite level, I have also more than a few years working with travel industry clients, numbers and predictive models are my daily bread. Now if you can stop swearing like a wee boy in the playground for a minute, why don't you share your creds? When you say you've been in the industry for ten years, going by your utter lack of professionalsm, it's safe to say you're employed cleaning the bogs? There's no way you'd be trusted down the pointy end IMHO. This isn't personal, it's a fair commentary on the impact of flybe coming back from bankruptcy on others who managed to keep going.

Well said. There’s only two users on here who feel the need to swear or insult. The rest manage to have a civil conversation even if disagreeing and yet claim they are the professionals. As far as I’m aware there’s no need to upload your CV before posting here but most people have some experience - personally I worked with route development at an airport and communications at an airline. However experience isn’t everything. Flybe1 was run by experienced people. It went bust. Technically COW is experienced in the industry but every carrier she’s run has ended up in trouble. So perhaps just be polite and respectful regardless.

[Gurnard]

Good points. Those who resort to scurrilous attacks only prove that they have already lost the argument. By using the language of the gutter they demonstrate an inability to reason cogently. Isn't this is meant to be a forum for professional people?

[Atlantic Explorer]

Spot on. The usual pessimistic arseholes are out again. Awaiting responses from BA318 and Skipness One Foxtrot with their bull****. One reason why I don't come on the forum much these days armchair "experts" with no real experience in the industry only sitting behind a computer desk playing flight simulator and think after half hour they're somehow qualified to give an professional opinion that's supposedly more accurate than someone that's been in the industry 10 years LOL.

Without fail, every time you type a message on here, you end up making yourself look like a right pillock! How old are you? There’s a lot of knowledgeable and experienced posters on here who I guarantee know a hell of a lot more about the industry than you do.

Maybe do us a favour and take a longer break from the forums and leave the rest of us to discuss things professionally.

[Eejit]

There are a couple of contributors on here who I hope I never have to share a flight deck with, and I pity those who do. Your interpersonal and conflict resolution skills are appalling, I would hate to be in a high pressure situation with you. 10 years in the industry? Oh sweet summer child. I've been on the planet over forty years but I still bite the inside of my cheek from time to time; time served does not equate to expertise. Let me guess - two years flying training followed by six years as a know-all FO before Covid hit? Hardly Michael O'Leary.

[Chesty Morgan]

You've never heard of fixed price fuel agreements then..
Well, having been in the industry for the best part of 30 years of course I have.

However, any fuel hedging Flybe1 had disappeared when they did. Bearing in mind the fuel price when Flybe2 started was way higher than when Flybe1 went LBU then the hedged price is undoubtedly higher. Makes a profitable load factor of 38% a pipe dream.

[BA318]

Just a reminder that this forum isn't just for pilots it does allow other people within the industry to come on as well. What you might not be aware of is the users I have highlighted have many a times said stuff which was either incorrect, untrue or otherwise. They refuse to listen to anyone (not just myself but many others). They will then carry out personal and/or mocking attacks on those people to prove superior. I find it laughable that because I've touched a nerve I'm getting all the flack here. For one I wish the moderators would actually be a little stricter and stop a lot of the nonsense that seems to regurgitate on these forums. Whether it's Air Southwest, Flybe far too many people who it's fairly obvious don't have real world industry experience commenting on stuff. Which if you look on my profile posts you will see I never comment about British Airways, TUI, Qantas etc because I've never worked for them and it wouldn't be right for me to say anything.

You are all welcome to keep replying with nasty messages. All I will say it is a reflection more on your own character than on me. All the best :)

You’re literally the only person who has mocked, swore or insulted anyone. The conversation is there for all to see. Indeed it’s a reflection on you.

[TartinTon]

About time that people grew up and put their big boy pants on. Can we get back to the thread topic...that's Flybe-V2 in case anyone has forgotten.

Some new routes in the pipeline apparently...possible announcement tomorrow....

[BA318]

Newquay is now showing in the list of destinations.

[Albert Hall]

Apparently replacing LBA on the Heathrow remedy slots for this winter, with NQY-MAN to appear as well. Quite a few more bits to come as well from what I'm told, although I can't substantiate it so won't post just yet. None of it likely to achieve any other outcome than huge losses.

[TartinTon]

Apparently replacing LBA on the Heathrow remedy slots for this winter, with NQY-MAN to appear as well. Quite a few more bits to come as well from what I'm told, although I can't substantiate it so won't post just yet. None of it likely to achieve any other outcome than huge losses.

Maybe so but assuming they are looking for better options than LBA to retain the slots you would have to think that there's a smaller loss on NQY than there would be on LBA. MANNQY is significantly underserved so I don't see that being a "huge loss".

All depends on the yield at the end of the day...the market is certainly there on NQY which can't be said of LBA......

[BA318]

Maybe so but assuming they are looking for better options than LBA to retain the slots you would have to think that there's a smaller loss on NQY than there would be on LBA. MANNQY is significantly underserved so I don't see that being a "huge loss".

All depends on the yield at the end of the day...the market is certainly there on NQY which can't be said of LBA......

Indeed. I’ve not been the biggest fan of their strategy but from day one I’ve thought NQY is a better option. Does Flybe entering to LHR have any effect on the PSO to LGW? Why subsidise a LGW link if LHR is being served?

[Albert Hall]

NQY-MAN with easyJet and Loganair both on it "underserved"? Interesting notion. easyJet are summer-only and the old Flybe service was supported with their own hub connections at MAN - none of which they have today. Jury out on that one.

And NQY-LHR will be up against an operation at LGW which is both subsidised and free of APD. Maybe during the peak summer, but during the winter may well prove to be a different ballgame.

[BHX5DME]

BHX to ABZ & BHX to SOU now in the destinations drop down ?

[willy wombat]

Goes to show what a farce these remedy slots are. Don’t forget they were intended to enable competition on routes where it was reduced by BA’s purchase of BMA (or BMI if you must). Originally they were used by Virgin (Little Red) who at least used them for their intended purpose. Now they’re just being pimped around by Flybe in what, IMHO, always was and always will be a slot scam.

[ATNotts]

BHX to ABZ & BHX to SOU now in the destinations drop down ?

Unless SOU to BHX is aimed at feeding their BHD, EDI, GLA and ABZ services I really cannot see the sense in that route, and unless punctuality radically improves, then hubbing reliably in BHX from SOU will be a something approaching a lottery.

[BA318]

SeanM1997 on Twitter reporting the following:

SOU-MAN 2 daily
SOU-EDI daily
SOU-GLA daily

All begin on 2nd March 23.

[JobsaGoodun]

Goes to show what a farce these remedy slots are. Don’t forget they were intended to enable competition on routes where it was reduced by BA’s purchase of BMA (or BMI if you must). Originally they were used by Virgin (Little Red) who at least used them for their intended purpose. Now they’re just being pimped around by Flybe in what, IMHO, always was and always will be a slot scam.

You make it sound like Flybe have done something wrong, but flybe v1 used them on the required destinations for the mandatory period of 6 seasons thereby complying with the restrictions in place. As the EU concluded that Flybe v2 was eligible for the slots held by Flybe v1, they’re now unencumbered and therefore free to use as they want (providing its EU).

[willy wombat]

I wouldn’t say Flybe have done something wrong but I do feel they’ve played the system and proved that the whole concept of remedy slots is misguided and generally useless at promoting long term competition.

[Skipness One Foxtrot]

NQY-LHR in it's own right is potentially a smart move IF ONLY IF the charging regime at LHR for a Q400 allows it to make money in it's own right. But then do they add codeshares and dilute the revenue potential?

[CabinCrewe]

Can’t imagine LM happy about BE on their now established EDI/GLA-SOU route, though choice of cramped narrow but fast Emb145 vs Noisy slightly slower D8

[RW20]

SeanM1997 on Twitter reporting the following:

SOU-MAN 2 daily
SOU-EDI daily
SOU-GLA daily

All begin on 2nd March 23.
​​​​​​A realistic upload for SOU,but what about CDG? Obviously there isn't the interest in this destination anymore,amazing considering the frequency of such flights in recent years.