More bitcoin idiocy

[Cornish Jack]

Yet another fraud theft described on the Beeb newspage. The relevance here is that the 'victim' was an ex-RAF Sqn Ldr. The 'bait', apparently, was yet another 'get-rich-quick' scheme based on the 'Emperors clothes' nonsense - bitcoin. The usual 'double your money overnight' sort of rubbish, with follow up ensnarement when the obviously nonsensical claims, turned out to be nonsensical. In theory this chap must have had a modicum of intelligence, yet he fell for the original spiel and continued when commonsense had to say he was being 'conned' !
These reports - and there are more and more of them daily, are becoming common currency (forgive the pun) for consumer programmes and the like. The (to me) most notable omission from the 'post-mortems' is the motivation on the victim's part ... greed. Why do people who, in almost all cases, have sufficient wealth, possessions, housing etc., feel the need to indulge in an enterprise. which by its very nature - quick, excessive profits - has to be chancy. ? When is enough not enough ?
Please reassure me that the following mantras don't need to be spelled out again .....
"If it seems to good to be true, IT IS !"
"There is NO such thing as a free lunch !"

[trim it out]

served 22 years in the RAF and retired as a squadron leader, so felt he knew what he was doing.
Arrogance is what did it.

Link to story (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60801606)

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Arrogance is to say it'll never happen to you.

Yes, there are a number of common themes to all such cases when looking at news stories written after the fact with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Generally in the real world it doesn't start with "We'll double your money for you, overnight" but with something a lot more plausible that is maybe slightly better than your average return.

Never forget that a) Fraudsters make a living by being convincing and b) they've got a lot more experience at conning people out of money than you have of avoiding cons.
​
Also while y'all are being quick to judge, remember than fraudsters are every bit as much a criminal as your burglars, yet we put no pressure on politicians to deal with fraud, precisely because of the arrogance displayed above - everyone believes they're too smart to be conned, until they are (in the same way that everyone thinks they're an above average driver, or if you've ever left anything valuable on display in your car, you deserved to be robbed). The linked article says it all - 39% of crime with 2% of police resource.

[Sue Vêtements]

Arrogance is what did it.

That's perhaps a little harsh. Don't forget the people who do this are professionals who have honed a "craft" and unless you immediately say no[1], it's probably as difficult to escape from them as it is to escape from a drug addiction

Professional v Amateur - who do you think will win?



[1] and yes I agree with "If it's too good to be true . . ."

[Sue Vêtements]

and one more thing: these criminals generally rely on people being so embarrassed that they keep quiet about it, thereby making their job easier

Hats off to this man for having the courage to come forward and admit to what has happened to him, to what he's done

[trim it out]

Arrogance is to say it'll never happen to you.
Or, according to Collins;
showing an exaggerated opinion of one's own importance, merit, ability

"I'm 77 years old. I'm a mature man, I've fought in two wars, I've had a commission with the RAF for 22 years. I've flown around the world, I have experienced death, and yet I have committed this gross error. It's very, very difficult to explain."
The old man is in denial. Maybe he was the PRI fund manager back in the day and that's where he gets his financial acumen from :E

On reflection perhaps I have been slightly obtuse. I'm sure the man feels gutted to have lost his money to fraud while I was concentrating more on the involvement in the crypto world, which has all the warnings possible about the risks. Still not sure why he's banging on about his previous service though.

[MPN11]

He's an old mate and colleague, so I'll just say "How tragic".

[neebother]

Funny how some see Bitcoin as a fluke. A get rich quick scheme. All investments are about the trust the majority have in it. With newer forms of money this tends to be a rocky start, with lots of people (parasites) abusing the early adopters and taking their money. This doesn't mean Bitcoin (Crypto in general) is a bad thing. The same individual could have lost his/here money on buying tulip bulbs....
The main thing about the monetary system is trust and believe. Why do you accept a tenner whilst the paper is only worth maybe 10 cents. That's because you believe in the myth the paper is worth the amount that is written on it. As long as you and the majority believes that, its worth a tenner.
The same goes for Crypto (and Bitcoin). As long as there is trust that it has a worth, it's fine. And that's all there is to it. No more, no less. Trust gone, money gone. And that goes for every token of money. No matter if its Pounds, Euros, Dollars, Rubles, or Bitcoin.

[The B Word]

Tragic news but it looks like his family are rallying, which is great news. At least he has a Service pension that many do not have when caught out like this. As a GD(Ground) mate and the head of a RAFA Branch near the south coast, then you would have expected him to be a wee bit more savvy - I guess it shows it can happen to anyone caught off their guard.

[Clop_Clop]

Funny how some see Bitcoin as a fluke. A get rich quick scheme. All investments are about the trust the majority have in it. With newer forms of money this tends to be a rocky start, with lots of people (parasites) abusing the early adopters and taking their money. This doesn't mean Bitcoin (Crypto in general) is a bad thing. The same individual could have lost his/here money on buying tulip bulbs....
The main thing about the monetary system is trust and believe. Why do you accept a tenner whilst the paper is only worth maybe 10 cents. That's because you believe in the myth the paper is worth the amount that is written on it. As long as you and the majority believes that, its worth a tenner.
The same goes for Crypto (and Bitcoin). As long as there is trust that it has a worth, it's fine. And that's all there is to it. No more, no less. Trust gone, money gone. And that goes for every token of money. No matter if its Pounds, Euros, Dollars, Rubles, or Bitcoin.

Reason why you accept a tenner is because you can pay with it and no one questions that very idea unlike crypto currencies… Its never about the value of the paper but it has a real need like paying taxes or morthage with it unlike cryptos…

[Tartiflette Fan]

Arrogance is to say it'll never happen to you.

Yes, there are a number of common themes to all such cases when looking at news stories written after the fact with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Generally in the real world it doesn't start with "We'll double your money for you, overnight" but with something a lot more plausible that is maybe slightly better than your average return..

Have to disagree with you there. The "mini-bond" companies like London Capital Finance were offering much higher rates : LCF was offering 8% when 20 year municipal bonds were only offering 2%.. The difference is so striking that it really ought to hit anyone. The other thing was that these companies told outright lies about being regulated, which a two minute search would have shown was untrue, this then hopefully triggering alarm bells.

[Sue Vêtements]

This doesn't mean Bitcoin (Crypto in general) is a bad thing

No, but the fact that it's basically set up to hep criminals be criminals does

as does the amount of electricity used in mining operations (about the same as all of Finland apparently)

[MPN11]

I remember the happy days of chasing interest rates around 8% with a LOT of loose cash. I escaped intact from Northern Rock and Kaupthing with my money intact, just in time … in fact I have just received my final £128 from the IoM Depositors Compensation Scheme after Kaupthing crashed. But unprotected deposits? No way!

Sorry, Graeme, I can understand why … but it was a Bridge Too Far.

[PS … I had the famous Indian-based “Microsoft Windows” scam call again today, after a year of peace! I greeted him cheerfully, before inviting him to die.]

[Procrastinus]

A desperately sad story.
My sympathies to him and all his family.
Don't ever forget - it can happen to you!

[Herod]

It can happen to anyone. A couple of years ago, a friend was tricked into allowing an outsider to take control of his computer, and as he said "I could only watch as my bank account was drained". I was astounded, as this man is very computer literate and real-world-savvy. "Yes, but he was very persuasive". Luckily, the bank in this case did refund the money,

[OzzyOzBorn]

No, but the fact that it's basically set up to hep criminals be criminals does

This is actually a common myth, peddled largely by those who passed on the Bitcoin opportunity, and who now resent the genuine life-changing gains enjoyed by those who didn't dismiss the idea out of hand. Every Bitcoin transaction leaves an immutable record on the blockchain - an online ledger which can be viewed by anyone. Only the very recent Taproot upgrade has increased the level of privacy. If you're involved in criminal activity, you'd better hope that the authorities don't get their hands on your wallet address, because if they link you to it, then they will instantly have full details of every transaction that wallet has ever interacted with down to eight decimal places (Satoshis). Bitcoin is a terrible vehicle for conducting money laundering etc.

The real medium of choice for serious criminals is cash. High denomination Dollar bills, Euro notes, Pound notes. Notoriously difficult to track and trace. Easy to use. The crowd who lobby for Bitcoin to be banned to "stop criminals" need to be banning banknotes instead if they want to cause real problems to those engaged in serious crime.

[Right20deg]

An acquaintance on the board at Lloyds - London told us many years ago that..."everything is worth nothing".
Some time later I understood what he meant. Perhaps he is correct. In the material sense.
Some family members have installed phone call screening services on their land lines. Works really well.
But it costs. Phone banking seem to be assisting us with a few 'master caution' steps to tread through before you hit the send button.
That has to help. I now ask my wing girl to cross check the important stuff that could hurt us as we age.
I feel very sad for the person who lost in this thread. Growing old is not for the faint hearted.

[Darkmouse]

This is actually a common myth, peddled largely by those who passed on the Bitcoin opportunity, and who now resent the genuine life-changing gains enjoyed by those who didn't dismiss the idea out of hand.

I was always sceptical, but decided to gamble on crypto currencies a few years ago. It was literally that, a gamble, and I accepted that there was a chance I could lose everything that I put in. I didn't, I almost quadrupled a not insignificant sum, decided it was too good to be true, and turned my crypto back into good old £ that I can actually do something with.

I did literally hundreds of hours of research both before and during my crypto adventure, and came out more confused than I went in. Perhaps I am just getting old. I can see no real utility for 'blockchains', 'ledgers' etc that can't already be done better by custom built software, that doesn't have a dodgy investment scheme attached to it.

Crypto currencies are the very definition of a pyramid scheme, but I suppose whilst there are still people who are willing to put their money into them, their value may rise 👍. Just don't get caught holding the bag when the big holders decide it's time to get off the ride and take your money with them.

Clearly this is purely my opinion, and I may well be entirely wrong and wish one day that I was a true believer and continued to invest all my spare cash in crypto rather than the very diverse portfolio that I do have. Somehow I doubt it!

[mopardave]

I remember the happy days of chasing interest rates around 8% with a LOT of loose cash. I escaped intact from Northern Rock and Kaupthing with my money intact, just in time … in fact I have just received my final £128 from the IoM Depositors Compensation Scheme after Kaupthing crashed. But unprotected deposits? No way!

Sorry, Graeme, I can understand why … but it was a Bridge Too Far.

[PS … I had the famous Indian-based “Microsoft Windows” scam call again today, after a year of peace! I greeted him cheerfully, before inviting him to die.]
I had a call about my "windows system"......I think it was "Colin" from Bangalore or some such. Anyhow, when I told him his timing was perfect, he was overjoyed........until I asked him whether he specialised in wood or UPVC windows. Imagine my disappointment when he told me to Foxtrot Oscar! He wasn't happy......scum! My father in law did fall for it........what a mess!! I feel sorry for this chap and take the view "there but for the grace of God........" My own father's details were found on a target list for a "Boiler Room" scam operation.........these people are vermin and it doesn't matter how switched on I think I am, I won't gloat over this poor man's momentary lapse of judgement.

[charliegolf]

Just don't get caught holding the bag when the big holders decide it's time to get off the ride and take your money with them.

I have absolutely no idea if this can actually happen. If it's remotely possible, then that's all I need to know about crypto.

CG

[Kiltrash]

Fortunately I have, so far, not been attracted to get rich quick or Bit coin offers.
whereas I do not have £800k in readies my house and savings probably amount to £900k
Fortunately I am happy my investments are low yeald and with reputable companies
I used to invest in stocks and shares but ONLY ones recommended by people I know or Martin Lewis.
So overall I do not feel I'm a risk taker and am happy with my lot....
Moral is expect the worse, it will probably happen..

[albatross]

I

[PS … I had the famous Indian-based “Microsoft Windows” scam call again today, after a year of peace! I greeted him cheerfully, before inviting him to die.]

My record for keeping the “Windows Problem” folks on the phone is over 35 minutes using my confused, concerned, senile old guy voice and persona.
I put him on speaker phone and made coffee and read a book as I told him I was turning on my computer, getting online, then experiencing problems connecting to their site so he could take control of my computer in order to fix my problem. He kept on telling me what to do as I did nothing but told him I was really trying to follow his instructions, he got angrier and a more belligerent. I finally told him “ Wait you said Windows? Windows? I use an Apple and don’t have Windows. You must have the wrong number.”
He lost it! I managed to place a curse on him, his family and friends as a parting gift before he hung up.
I figured every second I kept him on the line was preventing him from scamming someone else.

To another scammer I explained that my wife desperately needed to use the phone (I’m not married) and gave him my “Home Office Number” to call back immediately. It was the phone number of the RCMP fraud squad. I have no idea if he called them but like to think he did.

[Tartiflette Fan]

I have absolutely no idea if this can actually happen. If it's remotely possible, then that's all I need to know about crypto.

CG

Of course it's possible CG, just as it is with shares. Shares in airlines and aerospace-related industries have been on a roller-coaster these last two years. I 've read that some believe the Winkelhoff twins ( who got the multi-hundred million $ payout from Zuckerberg after he took the idea for Fcebook ) invested those $ 000,000,000 very early in Bitcoin and could be big enough to manipulate trading.

[trim it out]

Of course it's possible CG, just as it is with shares. Shares in airlines and aerospace-related industries have been on a roller-coaster these last two years. I 've read that some believe the Winkelhoff twins ( who got the multi-hundred million $ payout from Zuckerberg after he took the idea for Fcebook ) invested those $ 000,000,000 very early in Bitcoin and could be big enough to manipulate trading.
The markets have been influenced by "normal" people with access to the internet. See Reddit/Dogecoin/GameStop etc. You can read as many pages of the FT et al as you like but sometimes it just takes a kid with a funny meme to turn the system upside down inside out. And it's for those reasons, I'm out as they say on the telebox.

[Tartiflette Fan]

See Reddit/Dogecoin/GameStop etc

If you took any deep interest in gameStop, what happened after the buying storm/arbitrageurs bailing out ?

[trim it out]

If you took any deep interest in gameStop, what happened after the buying storm/arbitrageurs bailing out ?
No idea, scrolled past the story after a couple of days of it making the headlines.

[MPN11]

I finally told him “ Wait you said Windows? Windows? I use an Apple and don’t have Windows. You must have the wrong number.”Ha … I did the same time-wasting ploy a year or so ago, but I lost interest after 10 minutes.

But I did have another occasion where he lost his place on the call-sheet, and called me again about 2 minutes after the previous “Sod off”. All I needed to say was “Oh, hello, you again …” before the line went dead.

However, we are deviating from Graeme’s sad tale.

[Krystal n chips]

However, we are deviating from Graeme’s sad tale.

If, as reported, you are aged 77, you have a house valued at £800k and savings of £100k + then this doesn't exactly constitute poverty line living..

So why the need to obtain more money....can be summed up in one word.

[MPN11]

If, as reported, you are aged 77, you have a house valued at £800k and savings of £100k + then this doesn't exactly constitute poverty line living..

So why the need to obtain more money....can be summed up in one word.
... The cost of long-term care, which is more than one word but also of some concern to this 77-yo.

Let's play the ball, not the man, eh?

[Herod]

Don't be so hard on the chap. I think he's living alone, and perhaps no-one to bounce ideas off. I'm 75, and live alone. Lots of neighbours and friends at the places I volunteer for. However, more than two days passing without speaking to anyone (happens) and I start talking to myself. I'm alone, not lonely; however loneliness can be a mental problem.

[MPN11]

Well said, Herod.

[Krystal n chips]

... The cost of long-term care, which is more than one word but also of some concern to this 77-yo.

Let's play the ball, not the man, eh?

It may have escaped your notice, but, long term care is something that can potentially affect everybody and certainly the millions who cannot afford it.

Your lament about "playing the ball " would appear to be based on the fact you knew him personally, fair enough, except that the ball in question was related entirely to the apparent need to get more personal finances when millions would agree he was already more than financially secure.

[Tartiflette Fan]

I see no reason for the bank to pay out this person. They were carrying out numerous instructions from their customer, all of which were duly qualified ; far too many of these frauds are repaid when the total responsibility lies on the account holder.

[Clop_Clop]

Could be worth checking into the banks responsibilities as well, if they see a large transfers to a new account which is out of the ordinary perhaps they should give a call and ask some questions, maybe the bank doesn't have to... Has to be fraud so at least should be a police case and they could start digging, fraudsters belong in jail with a long sentence.

[Darkmouse]

For those who enjoy baiting phone scammers (I certainly do!), there is a chap on YouTube who takes it to another level. He gives them access to a 'virtual machine' (basically an entire separate computer system running within his computer system), and then gains access to their computer, deleting whatever he wants - the ensuing anguish is very cathartic!
​​​​​​
Anyway, bottom line for investing, crypto or traditional- use established, reputable platforms or brokers, not some random guy that contacts you and promises you rapid, ridiculous returns, realise that your capital is potentially at risk and for god's sake don't invest in meme stocks like GameStop when they're at their peak after they've been artificially pumped stratosphericly higher than the company is worth!

Oh, and just a word of warning after a few recent experiences - if anyone ever rings you and asks you to confirm personal details like DOB, account password etc, before you can continue, remind them that they rang you and could be f*cking anyone, and put the phone down. Nothing is ever that urgent.

[Krystal n chips]

" and put the phone down"

There's an even better response on a mobile.

If you don't recognise the number, don't answer . Those that are genuine will leave a voicemail message so you can simply call them back.

Being a bit thick, this seems to work very well for me. Along with checking and blocking the number if no message is left.

[Tartiflette Fan]

C... Has to be fraud so at least should be a police case and they could start digging, fraudsters belong in jail with a long sentence.

Entirely agree, but don't recall ever reading of a successful investigation: now and again there are arrests of the so-called "lover-boys" but not these out-and-out fraudsters.

I'm not sure if it has been happening in the UK, but for some years there have been fairly unsophisticated telephone scams perpetrated in Germany, where a crook phones up someone and pretends to be their grandson/daughter ( victims are selected by those with old-fashioned names in phone-book, therefore likely to be elderly ). They then spin a story about being in a car accident and need to pay a fine to stay out of jail and it seems this often works. There was one particular gang that pulled this stunt and consisted of second or third-generation German/Turks who were based in Turkey - may have been arrested.

[Sue Vêtements]

For those who enjoy baiting phone scammers (I certainly do!)

I used to do that, until I realised that I had no idea who they were ... but they knew exactly who I was

[Tartiflette Fan]

For those who enjoy baiting phone scammers (I certainly do!), there is a chap on YouTube who takes it to another level. He gives them access to a 'virtual machine' (basically an entire separate computer system running within his computer system), and then gains access to their computer, deleting whatever he wants - the ensuing anguish is very cathartic!
​​​​​.

Which one is that ? I have seen ones which access the scammers systems and delete data, but never anybody running a virtual system themselves: in truth it sounds easy if you are well-versed in the technology.

[RAF_Techie101]

Which one is that ? I have seen ones which access the scammers systems and delete data, but never anybody running a virtual system themselves: in truth it sounds easy if you are well-versed in the technology.

Jim Browning (https://www.youtube.com/c/JimBrowning/videos) is a good one for the technical side of it, hacking into the scammer's CCTV and watching the person he's on the phone to, accessing their spreadsheets, listening to phone calls and then calling the people who've been scammed before they send over any money.

For sheer entertainment, Kitboga (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm22FAXZMw1BaWeFszZxUKw) keeps them going for days, using voice changing software to hold conversations with himself and multiple scammers for days at a time - I'm sure the record I've seen was a total of 36 hours spread over several days, leading them on for hours at a time till they eventually guessed who he was and gave up. If you have the time, it's hilarious to watch. He also has entire fake websites and banks setup where it looks like he has millions in savings just to get them more interested and unwilling to give up...

[Tartiflette Fan]

Ji (https://www.youtube.com/c/JimBrowning/videos). He also has entire fake websites and banks setup where it looks like he has millions in savings just to get them more interested and unwilling to give up...

I've watched both of those, but not for a few months. I don't recall the fake websites from Kitboga - will need to have another view.

[NutLoose]

The other one is they say they will pay XYZ into your account, say £50,000, you check your account and the £50,000 actually appears in your account, but mistakenly they have paid in £80,000, they then say whoops, our error can you sent the £30.000 back which you do as you can see it was £80,000 that was paid in, several days later when the transfer clears the bank finds the payment was bogus and removes the £80.000 from your account as it did not exist, but by then they have got your £30,000 and disappeared.


I feel for the guy but also think the bank should have picked up on such large amounts going out and stopped it.

[Tartiflette Fan]

I feel for the guy but also think the bank should have picked up on such large amounts going out and stopped it.

They may have tried ande been assured everything was normal - we don't know from the story. This fellow seems to have been so distraught that if he believed the "next payment" would be the one that saved him, then he would probably have done anything to make sure it went through;

[BEagle]

After the financial crash a few years ago, I decided that wasn't a risk I'd take EVER again! So now the remains of my savings are in a bank account which pays a paltry 0.05%, plus a few NS&I Premium Bonds.

One step up from a shoebox under the bed, I guess, but if income is greater than fixed costs and savings are secure, with due allowance for inflation, what else matters?

I'll never be a Rockerfeller, but should hopefully remain financially secure!

[Sue Vêtements]

That's pretty much me too

I go to a lot of retirement seminars now (free food!!!) and they offer something that goes up if the stock market goes up, just not as much and stays at zero if the stock market goes down. They are very disparaging about savings accounts and CDs

Unfortunately I 'm too polite to tell them that my savings accounts will go up in either event, AND it's backed by the government, whereas there's are insurance products ... anyone remember AIG?

[MightyGem]

There was a story circulating recently about Jeremy Clarkson was making a fortune investing in bitcoin. It was a scam, but some would have believed it.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/beatthescammers/article-7508643/Beware-Bitcoin-Revolution-scam-fake-Clarkson-endorsement.html

[roll_over]

The governments are printing money out of thin air and devaluing the currencies. Where do you think all the money for covid came from? Printing! Why is the cost of living going up so much, printing! Money printing and devaluation of currency is an indirect form of taxation that is being used to pay for covid.

[flash8]

Mate was farming bitcoin back in 2014 in a basement of a chinese travel agent, now retired worth ten million or so in hard assets after selling out a year ago or so. Since then bitcoin has doubled in value and he is a tortured soul. Some folk are never satisfied.

[NutLoose]

Mate was farming bitcoin back in 2014 in a basement of a chinese travel agent, now retired worth ten million or so in hard assets after selling out a year ago or so. Since then bitcoin has doubled in value and he is a tortured soul. Some folk are never satisfied.


When is enough, enough? ask these folks...

https://www.techspot.com/news/91430-bitcoin-mining-company-buys-pennsylvania-power-plant-meet.html

What just happened? Crypto mining companies are continuing to find innovative solutions to power problems despite concerns regarding Bitcoin mining's immense power requirements and ecological impacts. A holding company in Pennsylvania recently purchased the financially challenged Scrubgrass power plant. The plant currently produces enough power for 1,800 Bitcoin miners, with output increases planned to support more than 20,000 miners by 2022.

Mining the top cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin or Ethereum requires vast amounts of power. A single Bitcoin transaction, including the resources needed to mine the coin and to verify the transaction, can total upwards of 1,700 kilowatt hours (kWh). This ever-increasing power demand has forced large crypto mining outfits to leverage any available means to produce their power at the lowest possible cost (https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/power-guzzling-crypto-miners-racing-to-find-cheaper-energy-sources-65948976). In some cases, this leads to mining operations literally taking power production into their own hands.

Stronghold Digital Mining in Kennerdell, Pennsylvania, has joined the ranks of those mining operations that have sought to solve their power delivery challenges themselves. Unlike those companies that leverage regional hydroelectric power (https://www.techspot.com/news/90373-124-year-old-hydroelectric-plant-using-power-mine.html) or others leveraging energy credits and payments from their respective states, Stronghold recently purchased the Scrubgrass power plant in Venango County, Pennsylvania. According to Stronghold (https://strongholddigitalmining.com/), who advertises their organization as an "environmentally beneficial and vertically integrated Bitcoin miner," the plant will burn Pennsylvania's waste coal to power on-site mining hardware located in shipping containers next to the plant. Waste coal is the residual material left over following coal mining operations; it can be particularly harmful to the environment by leaching metals such as aluminum, iron, and manganese into the soil and surrounding water sources.

[Clop_Clop]

The governments are printing money out of thin air and devaluing the currencies. Where do you think all the money for covid came from? Printing! Why is the cost of living going up so much, printing! Money printing and devaluation of currency is an indirect form of taxation that is being used to pay for covid.

they probably did it for a reason, seems non intervention was a no-go policy for many countries to deal with it...

[Tartiflette Fan]

they probably did it for a reason, ...

Hmmmm - deep thinking there, Batman !

[Geriaviator]

If anyone mentions 'Isle of Man' and 'bank' in the same sentence, run a mile. An early post mentioned Kaupthing in this connection, I remember the Isle of Man Savings and Investment Bank which went phut in 1982, and Kingsnorth Finance (IoM) Ltd which hit my father (RAF 1936-1962) for £10,000 in 1987. I had pleaded with my father to get out of it but he said he needed its higher interest rate to augment his barely adequate income. From memory Kingsnorth offered about 30% higher interest than average savings rates. Now that I have outlived my dear old Dad I can understand that change doesn't come easily, and the trust his hard-working generation had so misplaced in finance 'professionals' has been replaced by a rude reply to any overture.

[Clop_Clop]

Hmmmm - deep thinking there, Batman !


Hilarious. But this one, They may have tried ande been assured everything was normal from earlier, is not exactly Von Neumann class as well is it :)