Tornado jets!

[ORAC]

Government armed forces minister answering urgent question in the HoC on Ukraine just stated at the dispatch box that British Tornadoes yesterday conducted operations from their base at RAF Akrotiri….

I hate to break the news to him…..

[henra]

Government armed forces minister answering urgent question in the HoC on Ukraine just stated at the dispatch box that British Tornadoes yesterday conducted operations from their base at RAF Akrotiri….
I hate to break the news to him…..
I surely do hope this is not representative of his expertise in defence matters...

[olster]

I have just listened to the U.K. Armed Forces Minister giving an update on British military manoeuvres with regard to the Ukraine invasion. Mr James Heappey then rather astonishingly announced that ‘Tornado jets’ were patrolling out of Cyprus. I find it incredible that a British minister should make such an error bearing in mind that Tornados were scrapped some years ago! I presume that he meant Typhoons. However it does not give me any confidence that our government has any credibility when it comes to military matters being apparently more concerned with lgbt rights etc. Even more surprising that Mr Heappey as a former British army officer should make such a schoolboy error. In fact most schoolboys of my generation would know the detail of every military aircraft in the U.K. inventory.

[chevvron]

Armed Forces Minster has just stated in the commons that 'Tornado jets are being used'.
Er am I missing something?

[Video Mixdown]

I have just listened to the U.K. Armed Forces Minister giving an update on British military manoeuvres with regard to the Ukraine invasion. Mr James Heappey then rather astonishingly announced that ‘Tornado jets’ were patrolling out of Cyprus. I find it incredible that a British minister should make such an error bearing in mind that Tornados were scrapped some years ago! I presume that he meant Typhoons. However it does not give me any confidence that our government has any credibility when it comes to military matters being apparently more concerned with lgbt rights etc. Even more surprising that Mr Heappey as a former British army officer should make such a schoolboy error. In fact most schoolboys of my generation would know the detail of every military aircraft in the U.K. inventory.
What a foolish post. The man is certainly extremely busy during a crisis and you try to create an issue from an inconsequential mistake.

[slip and turn]

Armed Forces Minster has just stated in the commons that 'Tornado jets are being used'.
Er am I missing something?Er there's a war on - careless talk costs lives and all that - which in my book means confirming or debunking anything like this is no help to Ukraine

[olster]

It is not an inconsequential mistake if the armed forces minister cannot even get the correct names of current British fast jets and quotes a redundant type. It demonstrates a mindset towards the military of the United Kingdom.

[Beamr]

At least he wasn't referring to EE Lightnings.

[hec7or]

I heard Malcolm Rifkind on the BBC referring to Sea King Harriers during the Falklands Invasion.

[Video Mixdown]

It is not an inconsequential mistake if the armed forces minister cannot even get the correct names of current British fast jets and quotes a redundant type. It demonstrates a mindset towards the military of the United Kingdom.
It demonstrates nothing of the sort. It was a minor mistake - nothing more. The only people who don't make mistakes are those who do nothing.

[olster]

It is not a minor mistake at all. It should be expected that ministers demonstrate ministerial competence and get the facts right.

[slip and turn]

At least he wasn't referring to EE Lightnings.Yes I think everyone knows those and the Hunters were usually kept back for more specialised operations elsewhere..

[Ancient Observer]

My little model of a Lightning never flew very well.

[olster]

This is absolutely not pointless. A government minister should be on top of his brief; the devil is in the detail. Our front line fast jet squadrons comprise typhoons and F35s. If you are armed forces minister and you either don’t know that or you allow your spad / civil servant write your speech, uncorrected for crucial detail you are not on top of your job. Sure, it may have been an error written in the heat of the moment. However the RAF / RN crews who are front line, highly trained personnel can only feel undermined by this lack of technical understanding. Maybe it’s just me.

[Video Mixdown]

This is absolutely not pointless. A government minister should be on top of his brief; the devil is in the detail. Our front line fast jet squadrons comprise typhoons and F35s. If you are armed forces minister and you either don’t know that or you allow your spad / civil servant write your speech, uncorrected for crucial detail you are not on top of your job. Sure, it may have been an error written in the heat of the moment. However the RAF / RN crews who are front line, highly trained personnel can only feel undermined by this lack of technical understanding. Maybe it’s just me.
Pompous rubbish. The people who matter (not you - obviously) know what was meant.

[olster]

You are very quick with the insults Mixdown. I am a U.K. taxpayer and voter so I am entitled to an opinion which is all that it is. The people that matter here are the citizens of the U.K. and should expect accuracy from elected officials. But rather than let this turn into the usual pprune ego fest I will let others contribute. You probably wouldn’t get the irony of calling others pompous on line.

[Martin the Martian]

Like another minister recently, who confused the Black Sea with the Baltic Sea.

[Mil-26Man]

It is not an inconsequential mistake if the armed forces minister cannot even get the correct names of current British fast jets and quotes a redundant type. It demonstrates a mindset towards the military of the United Kingdom.

It is completely inconsequential. The man misspoke, end of story.

[pr00ne]

Obviously a symptom of COVID . . . . mis-spoke, mis-pronounce, mis -identify and, wait-for-it, miss the target . . and its catching.

Main object of HMG in these circumstances is to keep the collective assemblage of Brexitting-chest wallopers, Glastonberry rubber band wearers, Harry potter and Ariane Grande afficionados, shamrock air hells-bells tourist types, footballing delusionals nice and warm in their comfort bubble with lots of syrupy words that confirm their limited life experience.

Oh boy, are they in for a shock when Mr P and "Friends" pitch-up at Calais !


I think you need help...

[Ninthace]

Like another minister recently, who confused the Black Sea with the Baltic Sea.
Or an ex POTUS that confused Russian and American amphibious forces, also on the Black Sea?

[Vortex Hoop]

This is absolutely not pointless. A government minister should be on top of his brief; the devil is in the detail. Our front line fast jet squadrons comprise typhoons and F35s. If you are armed forces minister and you either don’t know that or you allow your spad / civil servant write your speech, uncorrected for crucial detail you are not on top of your job. Sure, it may have been an error written in the heat of the moment. However the RAF / RN crews who are front line, highly trained personnel can only feel undermined by this lack of technical understanding. Maybe it’s just me.
Fully agree. These highly paid ministers should be able to keep on top of very very very basic details, like the names of our frontline fast jets.

There are only 2 of them left now!!

(I hate the way that some posters here like to shout others down by saying "I'm on the front line and I do/don't think what you said matters". This is an anonymous forum so no claims to authority can be made.)

[Vortex Hoop]

Obviously a symptom of COVID . . . . mis-spoke, mis-pronounce, mis -identify and, wait-for-it, miss the target . . and its catching.

Main object of HMG in these circumstances is to keep the collective assemblage of Brexitting-chest wallopers, Glastonberry rubber band wearers, Harry potter and Ariane Grande afficionados, shamrock air hells-bells tourist types, footballing delusionals nice and warm in their comfort bubble with lots of syrupy words that confirm their limited life experience.

Oh boy, are they in for a shock when Mr P and "Friends" pitch-up at Calais !
Oh dead - another pop at Brexit eh?!

You lost, get over it. Bigger fish to fry now.

(The EU have refused to kick Russia out of Swift payments while the UK/US are trying to. Where's the EU's moral compass now?)

[pr00ne]

I watched the speech live, and did do a double take at the outset at the use of the word Tornado! But that aside it was a very good speech by a guy I have to confess I have not heard of before, and the subsequent exchanges were of equal quality, showing a good unity across the house.

[melmothtw]

(The EU have refused to kick Russia out of Swift payments while the UK/US are trying to. Where's the EU's moral compass now?)

Of course, had we still been in the EU we would could have provided that 'moral compass', but as you say, that ship has sailed.

[Jetstream67]

At least no one has mentioned Spitfires and Lancaster's yet

[Haraka]

Thinking back a few years IIRC the RAF's own on line advertising site had pictures of Tornadoes after the type was OOS.
Some contracted advertising guru using his" Ajiffniff." ?

[Kiltrash]

Regardless of the miss type what are the ' Tornadoes ' actually doing? Flying over Ukraine and oif so what do they do if they spot a Red also over a Ukraine. ..??

[DogTailRed2]

How about Tiger Tanks?
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/768x405/tiger_637f28bc22a77839bd0eecb998c26875bc78e775.jpg

[trim it out]

Poor bloke has probably been briefed to death the last few days, working hard on capacity and he went back to a core memory regarding Tornados (which were in service in the same place doing a similar task probably when he was serving) rather than Typhoons during a speaking part in a stressful situation.

Must be ace being perfect like some of the stone throwers on here. Good job we have a just culture now.

[pr00ne]

Regardless of the miss type what are the ' Tornadoes ' actually doing? Flying over Ukraine and oif so what do they do if they spot a Red also over a Ukraine. ..??

They were mounting CAP over Romania. Part of a NATO wide series of CAP's right across the eastern borders.

[tartare]

So what do you think people serving would have thought when they/if heard that minor error by a `busy' politician?

[pilotmike]

It should be expected that ministers demonstrate ministerial competence and get the facts right.
Pure comedy! Do you think somebody ought to mention this to Boris. I haven't seen any evidence of this pesky requirement troubling him too much!

[Auxtank]

*Ring Ring, Ring Ring . . *

"Hello?"

"Hello, could we speak to Vladimir Putin, please?"

"Ah, yes, of course, that's fine - can I ask what it is in connection with please?"

"Yes, This is the 1970's and we'd like our Outdated Imperialist Dogma back . . ."

"That's fine. I'll see if he's available."

Years later . . .

"Hello, Caller - he is not available. He is in yet another Steroidal fight with his faceski. Too make it look youngski."

"That's okay, we'll wait . . ."

[trim it out]

So what do you think people serving would have thought when they/if heard that minor error by a `busy' politician?
I thought "I know what he meant".

[pilotmike]

Maybe it’s just me.
You keep repeating "Maybe its's just me", apparently either to drum up some support in sympathy, or possibly to soften the blow when you finally get the message that, yes, everybody else is confirming that not only it is just you, but that it is possibly the daftest bit of moaning they've heard for a long time. I'd stop digging.

[Auxtank]

Did you not listen to Stoltenberg's speech tonight?

Five times he repeated that he considered that Putin (Russia) knows the difference between NATO countries and Non-NATO countries.
Anyone trying to stir it up about those red lines is quite frankly a bit of an arse and needs to go away and have a bit of a think about that.

If you think it's going to come to this - you really are quite stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yrv505R-0U

[olster]

I said it once. Not interested in drumming up anything. Not digging / not interested. If you / all think it is ok that a government minister is not on top of his brief then I give up. I am sure the lunatic / psychopath Putin has no doubt about his military assets but there you go.

[Auxtank]

I said it once. Not interested in drumming up anything. Not digging / not interested. If you / all think it is ok that a government minister is not on top of his brief then I give up. I am sure the lunatic / psychopath Putin has no doubt about his military assets but there you go.

It's not really that at all. But full marks for pointing out that a Government Minister was not on message with his task.

People screw up - even them - especially under pressure - well done for catching it - but not a lot to be gained here by dissection. Surely.

[olster]

Thanks Auxtank, you get it. Not trying to cause an internet spat, just expressing my view. Cheers.

[tartare]

That it was just a minor error?

Horse ****e they would have thought it was a minor error or I know what he meant.
Detail matters.
Whatever he actually said has been eclipsed by the slip up.

[trim it out]

Horse ****e they would have thought it was a minor error or I know what he meant.
Detail matters.
Whatever he actually said has been eclipsed by the slip up.
By "they" do you mean the serving people you mentioned in your original post?

[SLXOwft]

As a retired infantry major with two tours in Afghanistan (2005 & 2009) and one in Iraq (2007), as Trim It Out says, Tornados were probably part of his service experience, as another UK taxpayer I am happy to forgive a misplaced name under stress. Not even worth a tempest or hurricane in a teacup IMO.

Some ar53 criticised him for tweeting colleagues not friends. "I saw too many colleagues go home from Iraq & Afghanistan in flag draped coffins but all had their sacrifice respected with full military honours. ..." part of a tweet in reference to the apparent potential use of mobile crematoria by the Russians to 'evaporate their dead'.

[Coltishall. loved it]

one just flew over here......it was german or italian?

[megan]

I hate the way that some posters here like to shout others downOh, dear me, the irony.

[spannermonkey]

To all those who believe that the Minister quoting 'Tornado' instead of 'Typhoon' is a heinous and unforgivable mistake can, l assume stand up in front of the world and state they have never made a similar mistake in something they said during their entire career!

[Bob Viking]

I am currently serving and I am also an RAF FJ pilot. The Minister saying Tornado instead of Typhoon did not upset me in the slightest. I won’t hold it against him.

Just out of interest do you think the Transport Minister can tell the difference between every type of train/boat/vehicle within their department?

BV

[mopardave]

What a foolish post. The man is certainly extremely busy during a crisis and you try to create an issue from an inconsequential mistake.

Oh come on Video Mixdown...........bit harsh that. Yes, granted he has a lot going on now and it was no doubt just a slip of the tongue...........but in this context, he only has two extremely big ticket front line types to remember. Really not sure why everyone is rounding on Olster. I wasn't impressed to be honest but that's as far as it goes.

[olster]

Thanks mopardave. I remain unimpressed that the armed forces government minister does not know the names of his front line fast jets. The court of pprune opinion however holds sway. I don’t want to get into keyboard warrior puerile nonsense, accusations of pomposity etc. Of course we all make mistakes but the devil remains in the detail and this was imho a howler, televised live in parliament. It is unlikely that the lunatic Putin is unaware of his airborne assets. Cheers.

[Bull at a Gate]

Olster, I have two grandsons. I know their names. But sometimes I call one by the name of the other. I repeat, I know their names but sometimes I get it wrong. Fortunately they know the difference between a lack of knowledge and a slip of the tongue. It’s a shame you don’t have the level of understanding that they have. One is 4 and the other 6.

[olster]

Bull,I have a personal philosophy that I never say anything over the internet that I wouldn’t say to their face. Therefore in the spirit of courteous discourse I will continue and bow out in that frame. To insult people from the safety of your keyboard who are merely expressing an opinion that may disagree with yours is just cowardice.

[Mil-26Man]

I remain unimpressed that the armed forces government minister does not know the names of his front line fast jets.

I'd wager my mortgage that the minister does know the names of his frontline jets, and that he simply misspoke in the heat of the moment. I'm more interested as to why you're getting so exercised about it.

[Senior Pilot]

This discussion has descended into a Hamsterwheel, time to put it to bed 🙊