Dassault Falcon 900LX replace 32 Sqn BAE 146

[chopper2004]

Here ya go

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/new-jets-to-enhance-uks-international-presence/?fbclid=IwAR0S6aTXpLY_zcS7BCoM3zZ0NCMA3lQpOAbE5fjydRHW0AqlHw eXUs4xOlg


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1408/49f6dd39_ff61_428d_b9ba_4d00db50d8f9_a6bd812fead7b921e23c1d4 cd7e909cdaf0f0133.jpeg

[melmothtw]

Already a thread running on this.

[bobward]

Four engines reduced to 3! A 25% reduction in emissions!:8

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Not a bad little gig. Get a Falcon 900 type rating courtesy of the RAF.

[Davef68]

Four engines reduced to 3! A 25% reduction in emissions!:8
Ssssh, no-one mention it's one more than the BAE125s.... :-)

[Less Hair]

G-AMILA and G-ATE?

[NutLoose]

Oddly enough, I might be wrong, but I seem to remember something about the Falcon 2000 wing being the same as the 900 but they had blanked of part of the tankage to stop people buying the twin instead of the trijet.. after all why buy three when you can fly on two and have the same range.

https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/passion/aircraft/civil-dassault-aircraft/falcon-2000/

https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/passion/aircraft/civil-dassault-aircraft/falcon-900/

I used to work on a 900, nice aircraft.

How about G-OVEN and G-OUKG?

.

[MPN11]

G-OURS and G-EXEU

[Less Hair]

Right. Whenever you need to shop for an aircraft carrier or VVIP jet you go to...?

[Cat Techie]

Not a bad little gig. Get a Falcon 900 type rating courtesy of the RAF.

Then you leave the RAF and find out that your CAA AML rating with it is worthless with most corporate operators will want an EASA member state licence so you can sign non G aircraft. That is the truth with most job adverts for UK corporate operators now. You swap your licence?

[NutLoose]

You could have held both at one point
https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Aircraft/Airworthiness/Engineer-licences/Part-66/Apply-for-reactivation-of-a-UK-issued-Part-66-Aircraft-Maintenance-Licence/

But i think they were referring to Pilots licences

[Trim Stab]

Oddly enough, I might be wrong, but I seem to remember something about the Falcon 2000 wing being the same as the 900 but they had blanked of part of the tankage to stop people buying the twin instead of the trijet.. after all why buy three when you can fly on two and have the same range.

https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/passion/aircraft/civil-dassault-aircraft/falcon-2000/

https://www.dassault-aviation.com/en/passion/aircraft/civil-dassault-aircraft/falcon-900/

I used to work on a 900, nice aircraft.

How about G-OVEN and G-OUKG?

.

Take off and landing performance substantially different though. I once saw the GLAM land Sarkozy on wet runway 35 at Cannes in a 900. The threshold is displaced to about a third of the way down the runway on 35, and they landed it right on the piano keys - looked like no chance of stopping. But it stopped with hundreds of metres to spare. The t/o was equally impressive.

[Cat Techie]

You could have held both at one point
https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-industry/Aircraft/Airworthiness/Engineer-licences/Part-66/Apply-for-reactivation-of-a-UK-issued-Part-66-Aircraft-Maintenance-Licence/

But i think they were referring to Pilots licences
They were. AML's you could not. You could have swapped them. I was an idiot not to. Then again COVID got in the way.

[2 TWU]

G-LIAR and G-PRAT ?

[NutLoose]

They were. AML's you could not. You could have swapped them. I was an idiot not to. Then again COVID got in the way.

Yes you could have applied to get an EU licence then later the CAA fearing having no one left offered a dual licence if you had changed to an EU one. Not sure if it’s still possible, but I doubt it. Still odd that we now have a CAA Part 66 and CAA Section L licences.

[Arthur1815]

If you hold an EASA ATPL and previously held a UK ATPL, there is a process for re-issuing a new UK licence with minimal pain. The easy route needs to be followed this year. It was not an afterthought by the CAA, but planned during the BREXIT negotiations. The hope was that EASA would reciprocate with common sense applied by both sides.

[NutLoose]

We were taking engineer licences Arthur.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

Then you leave the RAF and find out that your CAA AML rating with it is worthless with most corporate operators will want an EASA member state licence so you can sign non G aircraft. That is the truth with most job adverts for UK corporate operators now. You swap your licence?

You’re right. It was more aimed at the pilots rather than the maintainers though.

[Marchettiman]

Great paint scheme....will it say "Made in France" by the door?

[Cat Techie]

If you hold an EASA ATPL and previously held a UK ATPL, there is a process for re-issuing a new UK licence with minimal pain. The easy route needs to be followed this year. It was not an afterthought by the CAA, but planned during the BREXIT negotiations. The hope was that EASA would reciprocate with common sense applied by both sides.

Yes, you are correct. But we are not part of EASA anymore so what EASA think of our licences is their business and not ours. We will diverge from EASA in regs very shortly so there is no commonality. Some may say for the better. I suspect otherwise. UK engineers that have already swapped licences can get CAA ones now. I know with my one current rating that is live, I am now barred from most corporate operators of the same type.in this country. And it was up to people working for G companies on G aircraft to be forced to change their NRA licence when one was still using them. I wish I had done so. As for PART 66 and Section L debate, I would stick with the PART 66 as it ended up. It is interesting to chat to guys that did section L in 1990s and myself that ended up doing the late EASA Part 66 to first type. Proof I had to obtain and prove was a lot more that the basic oral.

[The Flying Stool]

Interestingly, Lizz Truss travelled to Moscow on a diplomatic mission on one of the 146s surprisingly rather than the A321s. Interestingly, it seemed to include a refuelling stop in Warsaw. A Falcon 900 could do that in one.

[NutLoose]

Cat, you can hold a part 66 and a Section L for free, or it was at my last renewal, on my last one as long as I had certified on my part 66 that was enough, prior to that I listed my Spitfire X1X engine / airframe experience for it.

As for the section L / Part 66 debate, the section L was hard, stupid things like sitting all the exam modules and then failing one resulting in all the module exams requiring to be retaken, even if previously passed and also a time limit on sitting them all.

​​​​​​…

[Cat Techie]

Cat, you can hold a part 66 and a Section L for free, or it was at my last renewal, on my last one as long as I had certified on my part 66 that was enough, prior to that I listed my Spitfire X1X engine / airframe experience for it.

As for the section L / Part 66 debate, the section L was hard, stupid things like sitting all the exam modules and then failing one resulting in all the module exams requiring to be retaken, even if previously passed and also a time limit on sitting them all.

​​​​​​…
I will take you up on the BCAR L. Be interesting to see. Having to retake subjects you passed is non sensical to be honest. Was a time limit on EASA until recently extended. However with Part 66 surprisingly as first type you have to do the jobs and supposed to be examined in knowledge by the B1 certifying as an oral as you do them. Back on topic mind. More Union Flags pouring down a drain plug. This lot got another huge bung from HMG to keep a sponsor going? Titan seen to have got a great deal (I almost worked for, they would have been hit hard bar their military and cargo contracts and do have mates working there) but it is public money! I forgot, no corruption at all with HMG.

[chevvron]

Interestingly, Lizz Truss travelled to Moscow on a diplomatic mission on one of the 146s
How, they've both been consigned to museums? Was this yesterday?
Boris going to Poland today presumably on a '321 and Prince Willam in Dubai in '336 today.

[Davef68]

I think only one has gone to a Museum (Duxford) The other CC2 is still in service at the moment. Not sure of the C3s,

Liz TRuss on twitter

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-secretary-flies-to-moscow-to-urge-de-escalation-of-russian-aggression-against-ukraine

[Deep and fast]

Was it an urban myth that a Dassault Falcon got delivered with snooping equipment on board?

[Duchess_Driver]

Probably snooping versions of the Falcon exist across the world, but probably the most “famous” Falcon was

https://theaviationgeekclub.com/the-uss-stark-incident-that-time-a-modified-iraqi-falcon-50-business-jet-almost-sank-a-us-navy-frigate/amp/

[JeanKhul]

Probably snooping versions of the Falcon exist across the world, but probably the most “famous” Falcon was ...


Yeap, great day it was. For years they believed it had been a Mirage F1EQ - and they were wondering why it was flying at such a low speed, as seen on the radars....

[Addlepate]

Here ya go

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/new-jets-to-enhance-uks-international-presence/?fbclid=IwAR0S6aTXpLY_zcS7BCoM3zZ0NCMA3lQpOAbE5fjydRHW0AqlHw eXUs4xOlg


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1408/49f6dd39_ff61_428d_b9ba_4d00db50d8f9_a6bd812fead7b921e23c1d4 cd7e909cdaf0f0133.jpeg

I assume the shading is artistic licence, rather than impressive use of ground effect or a previously unpublicised hover capability ...

[Cat Techie]

Seen 3 jobs advertised for engineers at Northolt for Falcon 900. Must be British licences as well. Only Falcon 900 job I could apply for seeing the rest of the UK corporate world is outside the limits for my great UK CAA AML.

[Cat Techie]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x571/img_20220216_193158_d9fea0e79df83e05f019bf38462288caac3d7bfb .jpg
value for money and a waste of money. Boris looking for another hi viz jacket.

[chopper2004]

https://raf.mod.uk/news/articles/royal-air-forces-newest-aircraft-fleet-reaches-full-service-capability/?fs=e&s=cl


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1242/01a3a8d6_fc09_4f08_91c0_92911626ddd6_66d787b13bff9b0779f9a95 8c28abd1ac9a3a7cd.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/181bf383_8298_4246_b88c_931753b52188_62cbd32b3aaf6872ec8a93c 8a3ab5b9217ce5689.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1342/b061584a_98e1_47b9_88f1_3859fcd1416d_42bc2671604ff9cd4296b49 70823b1b08f3bada7.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1299/dd4ebc0d_4055_4f76_befa_1673f8b12f15_a827b42891a0e5ca9ee6939 d844dd0565f4dc730.jpeg

[NutLoose]

Really went to town on that paint scheme, it looks like a handback white tail..

Establishing the new Command Support Air Transport service with Envoy IV

I wonder why they never went with Royal Air Force Air Support Command? we used to have one..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Air_Support_Command

[Davef68]

Really went to town on that paint scheme, it looks like a handback white tail..


Nice and anonymous

[pr00ne]

Really went to town on that paint scheme, it looks like a handback white tail..



I wonder why they never went with Royal Air Force Air Support Command? we used to have one..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Air_Support_Command

Maybe because Air Support Command was disbanded in 1972, 50, that’s FIFTY, years ago!

[Langball]

If you look at the nose of both aircraft (one the top, just aft of the radome) the one of the left seems to be fitted with the 'Enhanced Flight Vision System' but not the one of the right. Have they both different avionics?

[MPN11]

If you look at the nose of both aircraft (one the top, just aft of the radome) the one of the left seems to be fitted with the 'Enhanced Flight Vision System' but not the one of the right. Have they both different avionics?
Or a bit of a building in the background?

[NutLoose]

Maybe because Air Support Command was disbanded in 1972, 50, that’s FIFTY, years ago!

Well, as they have formed a new “Command” they could have just as well resurrected an older one.

I did wonder if they were delivered as white tails to get modified with a secure fit and IR jammers etc before adding the final scheme?

[lonsdale2]

If you look at the nose of both aircraft (one the top, just aft of the radome) the one of the left seems to be fitted with the 'Enhanced Flight Vision System' but not the one of the right. Have they both different avionics?
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x425/envoy07_2b45437980b92b9c0a99d35410209c69565d31da.jpg
This is the first one, looks like EFVS fitted.

[NutLoose]

I think only one has gone to a Museum (Duxford) The other CC2 is still in service at the moment. Not sure of the C3s,

Liz TRuss on twitter (https://twitter.com/trussliz/status/1491430374916132865?s=20&t=xCOsPP2uGGIkmu7db2vyvw)

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-secretary-flies-to-moscow-to-urge-de-escalation-of-russian-aggression-against-ukraine

Dave, I believe one went to Duxford and one to Saints, they were then spares recovered for the company that bought the others in NZ, I believe they were the ones that donated them to the museums, NOT the MOD. It bloody annoys me that when you read all bumpf from the RAF and MOD appear to take some credit for them going to the museums without actually stating who donated them.

Australian airline Pionair has acquired the four aircraft and is set to place the two former TNT Airways BAe 146 C3s into service down under. However, it has opted to donate the two smaller, 146 CC.2 Statesman examples to museums following sympathetic spares recovery. The Sydney/Bankstown-based carrier has acquired the VIP-configured jets for their low-hour Honeywell ALF 502 powerplants and auxiliary power units. It has built eight engines from time-expired components which will then be fitted to the preserved airliners to replace the existing units.

https://www.key.aero/article/raf-retires-bae-146-iwm-duxford

Off the MOD website

“I’m really pleased that this aircraft with such a famous history has been given a home in Wales. The Royal Air Force was proud to remember the valour and service of Group Captain Rees, the first Commanding Officer of 32 Squadron, when this BAe146 was named after him. I hope many people in Wales and beyond will come to see it at the South Wales Aviation Museum.”



We're very thankful to the RAF for the generous gift of this historic British jet. To have an aircraft which performed such a high-profile role is a real boost for the museum and the fact that it has a Welsh connection to a VC winner makes it even more special. It joins a Tornado GR4 which the RAF gifted to the museum last year

so someone’s telling porkies.

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/royal-jet-lies-in-for-retirement-at-south-wales-museum/

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/112202-uks-royal-air-force-ends-bae-146-operations (https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles/royal-jet-lies-in-for-retirement-at-south-wales-museum/)

[chevvron]

https://raf.mod.uk/news/articles/royal-air-forces-newest-aircraft-fleet-reaches-full-service-capability/?fs=e&s=cl


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1242/01a3a8d6_fc09_4f08_91c0_92911626ddd6_66d787b13bff9b0779f9a95 8c28abd1ac9a3a7cd.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/181bf383_8298_4246_b88c_931753b52188_62cbd32b3aaf6872ec8a93c 8a3ab5b9217ce5689.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1342/b061584a_98e1_47b9_88f1_3859fcd1416d_42bc2671604ff9cd4296b49 70823b1b08f3bada7.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1299/dd4ebc0d_4055_4f76_befa_1673f8b12f15_a827b42891a0e5ca9ee6939 d844dd0565f4dc730.jpeg
I presume both of these will be used to visit Balmoral tomorrow (6th)

[Richard Taylor]

I thought ABZ might be too foggy, but ZAHS has arrived with the outgoing PM.

[Ohrly]

Great paint scheme....will it say "Made in France" by the door?

No, but they have got the French flag running up to the centre engine.

[Richard Taylor]

Boris got in, Liz's plane might have to go into the hold as the fog at ABZ has closed in somewhat!!

[chevvron]

Boris got in, Liz's plane might have to go into the hold as the fog at ABZ has closed in somewhat!!
Quick somebody nip down and re-open Leuchars
(Pretty boring colour scheme)

[chevvron]

It'll play havoc with the lawns
Lawns looked OK on sunday when the 'Tour of Britain' went past.

[biddedout]

I wonder if someone at HQ will have the gumption to divert her Flight to Lossie if ABZ doesn't work out?

[GeeRam]

Quick somebody nip down and re-open Leuchars
(Pretty boring colour scheme)

Leuchars isn't closed.

This biz-jet came in from Canada to Leuchars this morning at the same time Boris One was on approach to ABZ.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1480x859/leuchars_363c197a6b47548a8da1e714f29ac57d897162d5.jpg

[PlasticCabDriver]

Boris got in, Liz's plane might have to go into the hold as the fog at ABZ has closed in somewhat!!

Didn’t seem to enter the hold but they went round in circles for half an hour or so. There were about half a dozen helicopters holding too, plus at least 4 diverted to Inverness.

[Flugzeug A]

Again , forgive me if I’m missing something here , but : Is there a rule / protocol that prevented them travelling together in a single aircraft?
2 people departing from the same place , with the same destination , both returning to the same POD.
Harm to the environment , waste of taxpayers’ money et al!
Can anyone explain why 2 aircraft were needed?

[RAFEngO74to09]

I action today taking Liz Truss & boris Johnson to Balmoral

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDT__WdqZdM

[chevvron]

Again , forgive me if I’m missing something here , but : Is there a rule / protocol that prevented them travelling together in a single aircraft?
2 people departing from the same place , with the same destination , both returning to the same POD.
Harm to the environment , waste of taxpayers’ money et al!
Can anyone explain why 2 aircraft were needed?
You mean so that just one incident would take both of them out?
POTUS and his VP never travel in the same aircraft.

[melmothtw]

You mean so that just one incident would take both of them out?
POTUS and his VP never travel in the same aircraft.

Slightly different situation here. The President and VP not flying together is to safeguard the line of succession. Johnson was (at the time of the flight) no longer to be PM, so him crashing on the same plane as Truss would have no impact on the UK's succession of power. Should they have both gone down together on the same plane (quit sniggering at the back!), the Conservative Party would have just had to elect another leader.

[DaveReidUK]

One assumes that Truss and Coffey (Deputy PM) will never travel on the same plane for that reason. Not to mention possible payload limitations.

[melmothtw]

One assumes that Truss and Coffey (Deputy PM) will never travel on the same plane for that reason. Not to mention possible payload limitations.

Not necessarily. The office of Deputy PM in the UK does not hold the same constitutional significance as Vice President does in the US. If the PM is killed, the role does not legally transfer to the Deputy PM.

[2Planks]

Where was the new shiny Falcon today for His Majesty's trip back to London?

[vascodegama]

It looked it was at Aberdeen to me.

[Timelord]

The King flew South on some random business jet. Poor show I thought.

[vascodegama]

The reg of the Falcon which arrived at Aberdeen looks to match one of the 2 x32 Sqn ac. I assumed that the King would get first choice of the flight back.

[Timelord]

It wasn’t either of those aircraft. Clip of him boarding available on BBC live coverage.

[Brain Potter]

The reg of the Falcon which arrived at Aberdeen looks to match one of the 2 x32 Sqn ac. I assumed that the King would get first choice of the flight back.

Maybe he did…

[DaveReidUK]

It wasn’t either of those aircraft. Clip of him boarding available on BBC live coverage.

And the footage of him arriving at Northolt showed quite a number of people disembarking from the Embraer, likely too many for one of the Falcons.

[Asturias56]

Yes - they just kept coming - but I guess it was his Household team, Camilla's, and most of the Queen's ex-household. One or two looked quite familiar from the past

[Asturias56]

"Is there a rule / protocol that prevented them travelling together in a single aircraft?"

Common sense - he'd probably have throttled someone the first time the steward referred to Ms truss as "Prime Minister"

[chevvron]

The King flew South on some random business jet. Poor show I thought.
It looked like and Emb 145 or maybe 155

[DaveReidUK]

It looked like an Emb 145 or maybe 155

Embraer ERJ-135BJ (aka Legacy 600) of London Executive Aviation (aka Luxaviation UK).

[sycamore]

Maybe the Falcon crew didn`t have a VVIP Category yet.......

[NutLoose]

I would imagine the two jets would be busy with other jobs involved with her passing.

It does however show a lack of capability the RAF now has, two new small jets then the next available size up is the Voyager transport wise, which would have been more fitting to bring her home in than a C-17 “freighter”, but I bet they haven’t got the kit for a Coffin that we had for the Tens.

[Richard Taylor]

There was an RAF C17 in/out at ABZ very early Fri. However Her Majesty is still lying in State in the Balmoral ballroom so not sure why it was here, but had to be related. She is due to be taken to Edinburgh tmrw (11/9).

[NutLoose]

Probably a rehearsal.

[wub]

There was an RAF C17 in/out at ABZ very early Fri. However Her Majesty is still lying in State in the Balmoral ballroom so not sure why it was here, but had to be related. She is due to be taken to Edinburgh tmrw (11/9).

By road

[WB627]

By road

To Edinburgh then after lying in state, to London by Royal Train.

[DaveReidUK]

By road

Yes, I can't think of anything more inappropriate than carrying a dead monarch in the back of a C-17.

I'd hazard a guess that it was positioning the hearse, presumably on behalf of Levertons, to ABZ.

[RAF_Techie101]

To Edinburgh then after lying in state, to London by Royal Train.

This is listed under Operation Unicorn, but multiple news outlets state she could also be flown down, so could be either at this stage.

[pebble_hopeful]

Yes, I can't think of anything more inappropriate than carrying a dead monarch in the back of a C-17.

I'd hazard a guess that it was positioning the hearse, presumably on behalf of Levertons, to ABZ.

Why is a C-17 inappropriate?

It is how service personnel have repatriated.

[sycamore]

By Royal Train...headed by `Tornado` and an A4`Elizabethan Line` steamer plus a mandatory Deltic...for the people across the Country....

[SWBKCB]

The following day, Princess Anne will accompany her mother's body as it is flown back to London. The Queen's coffin will be taken from Edinburgh Airport to Buckingham Palace via RAF Northolt.

BBC- Queen to lie in state for four full days before state funeral (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62863486)

[DaveReidUK]

The consensus in the media now appears to be that the train journey won't happen.

[WB627]

To Edinburgh then after lying in state, to London by Royal Train.


Sorry, duff gen. Plans have changed apparently, due to time constraints created by lying in state at various locations. She will be flown down to Northolt.

Personally, I do not think that it would be inappropriate for this to be in a C130, A400, or a C17 if that can get into Northolt. It is after all what has transported many service men and women home, who have given their lives for Queen and Country.

[NutLoose]

Yes and no, yes because flying them home from a warzone required such aircraft, flying the Monarch back like a piece of freight from Edinburgh just seems wrong.

As I said a Voyager preferably the VIP one with a fit in the baggage hold would have seemed more appropriate, as we used to do with the VC10, and delivered her to Brize or Heathrow

However one guesses they do not have a fit for the A330 which strikes me as piss poor planning. Though I wonder if they will load a Hearse and bring that back in the C17.

Let’s hope someone looks at procuring a fit for the Voyager ( if they do not have one ) for the future.

[Video Mixdown]

Yes and no, yes because flying them home from a warzone required such aircraft, flying the Monarch back like a piece of freight from Edinburgh just seems wrong.
As I said a Voyager preferably the VIP one with a fit in the baggage hold would have seemed more appropriate, as we used to do with the VC10, and delivered her to Brize or Heathrow
However one guesses they do not have a fit for the A330 which strikes me as piss poor planning. Though I wonder if they will load a Hearse and bring that back in the C17.
Let’s hope someone looks at procuring a fit for the Voyager ( if they do not have one ) for the future.
Personally I always found the sight of military pallbearers carrying a coffin slowly out from the rear of a C-17 very moving and respectful. I can't agree that it'd be better to put her in a baggage hold.

[DaveReidUK]

Yes and no, yes because flying them home from a warzone required such aircraft, flying the Monarch back like a piece of freight from Edinburgh just seems wrong.

As I said a Voyager preferably the VIP one with a fit in the baggage hold would have seemed more appropriate, as we used to do with the VC10, and delivered her to Brize or Heathrow

However one guesses they do not have a fit for the A330 which strikes me as piss poor planning. Though I wonder if they will load a Hearse and bring that back in the C17.

Let’s hope someone looks at procuring a fit for the Voyager ( if they do not have one ) for the future.

Commercial airlines carry human remains all the time.

I would be amazed if Levertons, in conjunction with the RAF, don't already have a long-standing plan as to how the body of the monarch, or other royal family member, is to be recovered to London by air, from wherever.

[West Coast]

Commercial airlines carry human remains all the time.

Indeed, tend not to forget those ones.

[Widger]

I see the King is flying again in a charter (LuxAviation). is this a long term arrangement or a temporary backfill for the Royal Flight?

[chevvron]

Using the Embraer again; what has he got against his shiny new Falcon(s).

[622]

Perhaps he got 'Heir' miles with them...

...hat and coat...

[Jhieminga]

Using the Embraer again; what has he got against his shiny new Falcon(s).
Are both Falcons available and in service right now? I remember something from when the first one was delivered about it taking another two years or so before they would reach full military and operational capability.

[chevvron]

Are both Falcons available and in service right now? I remember something from when the first one was delivered about it taking another two years or so before they would reach full military and operational capability.
They were both in use on tuesday for Boris and Liz to go to Balmoral or were they chartered?

[Downwind_Left]

I see the King is flying again in a charter (LuxAviation). is this a long term arrangement or a temporary backfill for the Royal Flight?

It’s a long term arrangement, of over 10 years standing. A Google Image search for Queen Private Jet, brings up lots of photos of Her Majesty on a lot of Embraers operated by this company. Similarly for other Royals.

[DaveReidUK]

Using the Embraer again; what has he got against his shiny new Falcon(s).

Just being green - it would have required both Falcons to carry the number of people who flew to EDI on the Embraer.

[DaveReidUK]

Having said the above, one of the F900s landed at EDI about an hour ago, there's currently a C-17 on final approach (plus another doing orbits over the Firth of Forth), and I believe the other Falcon is expected later.

[Speedywheels]

Having said the above, one of the F900s landed at EDI about an hour ago, there's currently a C-17 on final approach (plus another doing orbits over the Firth of Forth), and I believe the other Falcon is expected later.

C-17 x 2 on EDI approach

[Davef68]

Having said the above, one of the F900s landed at EDI about an hour ago, there's currently a C-17 on final approach (plus another doing orbits over the Firth of Forth), and I believe the other Falcon is expected later.
One transporting the Prime Minister if news organisations are to be believed

[chevvron]

Having said the above, one of the F900s landed at EDI about an hour ago, there's currently a C-17 on final approach (plus another doing orbits over the Firth of Forth), and I believe the other Falcon is expected later.
Liz Truss would have used a Falcon; saw her there on telly about an hour ago.

[Jhieminga]

Just being green - it would have required both Falcons to carry the number of people who flew to EDI on the Embraer.
On the RAF website (https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/envoy-iv-cc1/), the Falcons, apologies, Envoy IVs, are listed as carrying 14 passengers. The Embraer Legacy that was used is described as being equipped (https://www.luxaviationuk.com/our-fleet/embraer-legacy-600650/g-legc) to carry 13 passengers.

[NutLoose]

On the RAF website (https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/envoy-iv-cc1/), the Falcons, apologies, Envoy IVs, are listed as carrying 14 passengers. The Embraer Legacy that was used is described as being equipped (https://www.luxaviationuk.com/our-fleet/embraer-legacy-600650/g-legc) to carry 13 passengers.

https://www.jetcraft.com/jetstream/2017/10/dassault-falcon-900lx-overview-2010-present/

InteriorThe cabin volume for the Falcon 900LX is 1,270 cubic feet. Typical configuration features 12 passenger and 2 crew seats.

[Jhieminga]

The terminology on the RAF website is a bit confusing as 'Payload - 14 passengers' says 14 plus flight deck crew to me. If two of those seats are meant for cabin crew, the Envoy IV carries one passenger less than the Embraer.

[BEagle]

Apart from the fact that it would take an absurd amount of time to agree a contract, a brace of A319CJ operated by ATr would seem a much better bet, given the simple TR requirement for Voyager crew!

[NutLoose]

Hence why I mentioned the 737 800ERX Beegs in the other thread, compatible, spare wise and engineering wise the same as the Poseidon P-8 which was used for the conversion. :) but we are both thinking along the same lines.

Well let’s face it, a Falcon 900 is no replacement for a BAe 146 no matter how many ways you cut it, with the new P-8 Poseidon, a couple of 737-800ERX. would have probably been a better fit with more space and commonality with the fleet, ideal for plodding around Europe with an extended range for the odd long range trips.
Second best is chartering as and when as is the present case, though it’s tragic that this Country has come to that.

[BEagle]

A 737 variant wouldn't be a good option for a VVIP aircraft, given the basing location of the Poseidon and Wedgetail.

Wheras a contract variation with ATr to include a couple of aircraft would perhaps be simpler, given the ease of crew TR conversion. Plus a more appropriate basing location convenient for most VVIP passengers.

[Asturias56]

Charles and the other royals are visiting all parts of the UK before the funeral- makes sense to keep the Falcons for them and use hired in aircraft for the other duties

[chevvron]

A 737 variant wouldn't be a good option for a VVIP aircraft, given the basing location of the Poseidon and Wedgetail.

Wheras a contract variation with ATr to include a couple of aircraft would perhaps be simpler, given the ease of crew TR conversion. Plus a more appropriate basing location convenient for most VVIP passengers.
But they couldn't operate in/out of Northolt due to it's 'short' runway.

[treadigraph]

B737s and A320 family have visited Northolt.

[DaveReidUK]

B737s and A320 family have visited Northolt.

Plus, on one notable occasion, a 707. :O

[pr00ne]

I see the King is flying again in a charter (LuxAviation). is this a long term arrangement or a temporary backfill for the Royal Flight?

There is no Royal Flight, and hasn't been since 32 Squadron and The Queens Flight merged. 32 Squadron is a Command Air Support squadron.

[treadigraph]

Plus, on one notable occasion, a 707. :O
Yes indeed, perhaps the R-135s could become multi-role... :p

[G-AZUK]

Wheras a contract variation with ATr to include a couple of aircraft would perhaps be simpler, given the ease of crew TR conversion. Plus a more appropriate basing location convenient for most VVIP passengers.

We have the Titan 321LR?

[NutLoose]

A 737 variant wouldn't be a good option for a VVIP aircraft, given the basing location of the Poseidon and Wedgetail.

Wheras a contract variation with ATr to include a couple of aircraft would perhaps be simpler, given the ease of crew TR conversion. Plus a more appropriate basing location convenient for most VVIP passengers.

It was however orignally designed at the outset as a VIP aircraft, is a beefed up design and basing it could be anywhere, after all the Tens had Majors done in Wales, repaints in Luton, rewiring in the East Midlands, Tanker conversion on the south coast, and the diversionary airfield was Prestwick most of the time.

[airsound]

That same Luxaviation Embraer Legacy 600, G-LEGC, seems to be taking their majesties from Edinburgh to Belfast. It was also used from Aberdeen to Northolt on 9 Sep, and Northolt to Edinburgh on 12 Sep.

It is a bit strange, no?

airsound

[pr00ne]

That same Luxaviation Embraer Legacy 600, G-LEGC, seems to be taking their majesties from Edinburgh to Belfast. It was also used from Aberdeen to Northolt on 9 Sep, and Northolt to Edinburgh on 12 Sep.

It is a bit strange, no?

airsound


Not really. The Envoy IV CC1capability is not due to be declared as "operational" until 2024, and there are only two of them to carry out all of 32 Sqn's current fixed wing tasking, which must be incredibly high right now. They are operating with mixed civilian/military crews until 2024, and I doubt that many RAF crews have been trained/qualified.

[CAEBr]

[The Envoy IV CC1capability is not due to be declared as "operational" until 2024

The jet is used by a large number of operators who buy it, have a few trained aircrew, then use it. What is taking till 2024 to have an 'operational capability'. They are not developing software systems and suchlike. It can't take that long for the cabin crew to learn how to use the coffee machine.

there are only two of them to carry out all of 32 Sqn's current fixed wing tasking

Which would suggest that two is not enough. it might prevent the embarassment of yet another capability gap, but highlights that while it might have a great range and benefit from the three engine configuration it is neither big enough nor numerous enough for a series of flights that the RAF were previously capable of performing and instead is a vanity project.

[airsound]

The Envoy IV CC1capability is not due to be declared as "operational" until 2024, and there are only two of them to carry out all of 32 Sqn's current fixed wing tasking, which must be incredibly high right now. They are operating with mixed civilian/military crews until 2024, and I doubt that many RAF crews have been trained/qualified. Thanks for that pr00ne.

Nevertheless, to the uninitiated it might seem like a not very good look for the RAF. And, heaven knows, the RAF could do with some 'good looks' just now.

airsound

[NutLoose]

Does the Envoys have full office facilities, WIFI, multiple phones etc, because the Embraer appears to have.

[WB627]

Plus, on one notable occasion, a 707. :O

They had to strip it to get it out & just a teaspoonful of fuel to do the hop to Hathrow :oh: where they put it all back to gether.

[WB627]

Plus, on one notable occasion, a 707. :O

They had to strip it to get it out & just a teaspoonful of fuel to do the hop to Hathrow :oh: where they put it all back to gether.

[G-AZUK]

Thanks for that pr00ne.

Nevertheless, to the uninitiated it might seem like a not very good look for the RAF. And, heaven knows, the RAF could do with some 'good looks' just now.

airsound

to the uninitiated they will think G-LEGC is an RAF aircraft anyway, even Huw Edwards thought it was the other day, its vaguely red white and blue and looks the part, even if its not, right now its only those of us that can tell the difference that have noticed, I doubt the rest of the general population knows or cares. If the Envoys are maxed out getting up to speed then why not charter in, Luxaviation are a good bunch who have done royal flying for years.

[RAFEngO74to09]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fjt6o-8XwAgc6lL?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Asturias56]

As the UK's influence gets smaller the more they plaster the flag on everything

[Union Jack]

As the UK's influence gets smaller the more they plaster the flag on everything
Oh dear! A somewhat cynical civilian reaction, surely?:rolleyes: It looks very smart indeed in my dark blue eyes!:ok:

Jack

[MPN11]

Look OK to me, although perhaps too much flag for the scale of the fuselage. Difficult decision, I’m sure.

[The Helpful Stacker]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fjt6o-8XwAgc6lL?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

The flag 'fondlers' will wet themselves.

[falcon900]

A bit too much for me… how to make a classy looking aircraft look like a fairground ride. Less is more……

[Less Hair]

Austin Powers style.

[GeeRam]

Oh dear.......:oh:

[Bing]

The flag 'fondlers' will wet themselves.

If only it was as understated as the French equivalent.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x767/ac5aa1f930d32b385f3fea3c49d445b9_67581f59445f97437133e69bd36 4025cb57fe020.jpg

[Union Jack]

If only it was as understated as the French equivalent.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/960x767/ac5aa1f930d32b385f3fea3c49d445b9_67581f59445f97437133e69bd36 4025cb57fe020.jpg
What? By making the representation of the flag of the United Kingdom look more like that of the French Republic, which is exactly what we are seeing here.....?:suspect:

Jack

[NutLoose]

Yes personally, I would lose the Forward fuselage line and just retain the tail scheme on both. And then have “Ghosted” the flag on the fin rather like the light blue on the old BMI scheme, so it was understated but also tasteful. Then put the registration on the cowls.


https://gchadwick.myportfolio.com/embraer-145-of-bmi-regional

[MPN11]

The French do have the advantage of a simpler National flag ... and I don't mean the white one.

[NutLoose]

Mpn11 as it is a military aircraft we could look to our past and do simple.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x280/image_7ea6aa7093b68d4f575308064aa7d5219a51fcff.jpeg

[chevvron]

Mpn11 as it is a military aircraft we could look to our past and do simple.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/600x280/image_7ea6aa7093b68d4f575308064aa7d5219a51fcff.jpeg
Rudder flash is the wrong way round.

[ExAscoteer2]

Rudder flash is the wrong way round.

Not for WW1 it isn't.

[Less Hair]

This is a classy and timeless livery: (RN DH Sea Heron)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1f/De_Havilland_DH.114_Sea_Heron_C.20%2C_XR443%2C_Royal_Navy.jp g

[pax britanica]

The Union Flag is not suited to being twisted around because its already rather a mess . BA got it right by simplifying it . The US flag is equally useless when modified to fit aviation shapes. Airforce one is classic example of not being drawn into a hideous AA style flag though the flag is so important to Americans

. We are British -we do classy understatement, only an egotistical prat like former PM Johnson would like the livery shown and sadly the less we matter in the world the more we wave the flag. And as is obvious we have far too many problems at home to even consider a foreign policy other than keep our mouths shut and heads down have we have solved our own problems. Theres also the little matter of being so bellicose about Global Britain while advertising a French plane..

Its a bit old school but the 'Transport Command' white top VC 10s looked really stylish back in the day

[WB627]

Embarrassing.

Nothing more to be said

[Davef68]

I'd have preferred a straight cheatline and a proper depiction of the Union Flag on the tail. But bearing in mind the Voyager (and A320) scheme it's no surprise

[Asturias56]

"sadly the less we matter in the world the more we wave the flag. "

Exactly !!!

The business of Govt Ministers appearing on TV with a forest of flags behind them is another example

[dctyke]

Why has it not got mil serial number?

[Davef68]

Why has it not got mil serial number?

Operating on the civil register at the moment, (e.g. non-military aircrew allowed) - plan is to move them across to Mil in a couple of years once DASS etc have been added and they are RAF operated