MOD require escape and evasion trainers and para training aircraft

[NutLoose]

More details here, it looks staff are in demand

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/mod-looking-for-survive-evade-resist-and-extract-training-provider/

Para training aircraft details.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/britain-to-lease-aircraft-to-deliver-military-parachute-training/

it’s indicative of the cuts that such basic tasks need to be farmed out.

[CAEBr]

Which -available - civil registered aircraft is going to meet the extant RTS requirements? I'm presuming the Falcons drop aircraft already does, in which case you'd have thought they would have extended that contract and not bothered with a new one. Wouldn't be the first time.

[WB627]

A couple of these spring to mind, maybe even this one??? :)

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/680x510/bbmf_dak_600d2dd8b1aad342cfdd8e98545a846015592ac1.jpg

RTS? Was OK in WW2 ;)

[CAEBr]

RTS? Was OK in WW2 Agreed, but I was referring to the specific statement in their requirements doc ​​​​​​​

[meleagertoo]

"What are the requirements for the aircraft you ask? Good question."

Apparently a rather random selection of the most basic avionics but no mention of number of engines!
Amazing!

[ORAC]

I understand there is a C-130J (ZH879) just landed at Marshall's in Cambridge which might meet the spec.....

[Ken Scott]

I understand there is a C-130J (ZH879) just landed at Marshall's in Cambridge which might meet the spec.....


ORAC, while I appreciate that your post was tongue-in-cheek it does touch on an attitude within the MOD that any capability can be made ‘better’ (ie: cheaper) by civvies (normally ex-mil) under contract. This is despite the fact that the military version can be used for other tasks outside of the narrow contract. So an RAF owned & operated C130 which could do the para training and a host of other tasks in war and peace is less preferable to a civil-run light turboprop that can only be used for throwing soldiers out of. Viewed in isolation the latter is better/ cheaper than the former at that one task, so the former will always lose out.

[NutLoose]

I’d have thought a couple of ex US mil Shorts Sherpas would fit the bill, but under 5 mil to provide the aircraft, fire cover and the hours, it doesn’t seem to have a lot of meat on the bone assuming the hours are part of the contract.

[roger4]

For the para-dropping, the RAF have had a pair of Skyvans and a Dornier 228 on lease for many years from Summit Air of Canada. They are based at Brize Norton and are used by No. 1 Parachute Training School and the Red Devils Parachute Display Team.

The ITT is presumably simply a regular (3-yearly?) renewal, with the option to award it elsewhere if someone other than Summit came up with a better offer.

[Tay Cough]

http://www.platinumfighters.com/inventory-2/1958-lockheed-c-130a-%22hercules%22- ([url=[url)

If a few of you want to get together for a group buy…

[Get me some traffic]

How about a couple of Shorts Sherpas based at Teesside? Near to the Catterick ranges, used to quasi military movements and near to the biggest military base in Europe. Win win? Easily able to host much bigger aircraft if needed.

[Whenurhappy]

How about a couple of Shorts Sherpas based at Teesside? Near to the Catterick ranges, used to quasi military movements and near to the biggest military base in Europe. Win win? Easily able to host much bigger aircraft if needed.

I think Ramstein & Vogelwey would be an order of magnitude bigger than Catterick. And who would want to live in the poverty-stricken North?

[mopardave]

I think Ramstein & Vogelwey would be an order of magnitude bigger than Catterick. And who would want to live in the poverty-stricken North?
Steady on old man, it's really not that bad!

[Get me some traffic]

Have you been to Richmond?

[Davef68]

For the para-dropping, the RAF have had a pair of Skyvans and a Dornier 228 on lease for many years from Summit Air of Canada. They are based at Brize Norton and are used by No. 1 Parachute Training School and the Red Devils Parachute Display Team.

The ITT is presumably simply a regular (3-yearly?) renewal, with the option to award it elsewhere if someone other than Summit came up with a better offer.

And Summit replaced the previous long line of Hunting/Babcock/Invicta who provided this service with a pair of Skyvans (Although I think they used three aircraft over the years). One of them was ex-Argentine Coastguard!

[Ken Scott]

And who would want to live in the poverty-stricken North?

That attitude is why everything gets put in the south. If contracts & jobs were spread more widely about the country then a few more people would get to appreciate the lower house prices and easier access to GPs (for example) that those of us who don’t live in the overcrowded, overpriced bottom half of the nation get to enjoy.

[melmothtw]

Germany recently acquired the Lockheed Martin M28 for the para training role. Perhaps an option for the UK also.

[bspatz]

Why is there a need for a para trainer when there are no aircraft that can make operational para drops once the Herc has disappeared?

[melmothtw]

Why is there a need for a para trainer when there are no aircraft that can make operational para drops once the Herc has disappeared?

The A400M will be able to, but you know that.

[Ninthace]

No reference to the SERE contract? Too many scars?

[Stratnumberone]

The A400M will be able to, but you know that.

correct. But when? Does anybody
know that?

[Ken Scott]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1920x1280/5a9ea3b1_b81c_4d5e_91be_5499a0d44d9f_489254fc160cf84167c9391 3c77cdea4f051081a.jpeg
It would seem to be possible...

[Stratnumberone]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1920x1280/5a9ea3b1_b81c_4d5e_91be_5499a0d44d9f_489254fc160cf84167c9391 3c77cdea4f051081a.jpeg
It would seem to be possible...

It is possible but it’s not exactly a regular sight in British skies. There’s still going to be a giant para shaped hole in RAF capability some time in 2023

[huge72]

Having been an ALM on Hercs, it will indeed be a sad day when we loose the C130 and it may be sometime before the Atlas A400M has the full para capability. But lets be honest there is a school of thought that since the last real Para Operational Jump was Suez in 1956 do we really need the full gambit. As long as we have a platform to do SF para tasks then we will have to wait until the Atlas does it all! Hat Coat etc!

[throwaway1]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1920x1280/5a9ea3b1_b81c_4d5e_91be_5499a0d44d9f_489254fc160cf84167c9391 3c77cdea4f051081a.jpeg
It would seem to be possible...
We all need to remember the difference between a T&E crew doing a highly controlled capability demonstration on SPTA and the lowest common denominator crew being able to perform it operationally and under pressure. Miles apart, yet people treat them as the same - ditto for the CDS despatch and any other number of shiny photos and videos that people are using as proof that the A400M is covering C-130 tasks. Right now I'd wager there are no LLP qualified individuals on 30, LXX or possibly even XXIV.