The Queen, Prince William and helicopters...

[Nige321]

I've seen this story pop up on various news outlets during the week, local and national...
Norfolk live for instance... (https://www.norfolklive.co.uk/news/norfolk-news/queen-begs-william-no-helicopters-6373557)

Prince William has been urged by the Queen not to fly helicopters with Kate Middleton and their children, as she's "terrified" an accident could happen and threaten the line of succession.

An unwritten rule already prevents senior royals from flying together just in case disaster strikes, however the protocol was relaxed as Prince William's family grew bigger and they began to split their time between London and Norfolk.

The frequent flights have left Her Majesty in fear of disaster striking while William and his son George are both in the air.
But a source close to the Queen said she is "terrified" something could go wrong and has now spoken to William about her worries, reports the Sun (https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/17082002/queen-prince-william-to-stop-flying-helicopter-fears-crash/).

The Queen's concerns come after two near-misses in one royal helicopter have led to a major probe being launched.
A source close to the Queen claimed: "Her Majesty has told close friends and courtiers that she would like William to stop flying himself, particularly in bad weather, as helicopters are not the safest form of transport.

"It keeps the Queen awake at night and she is understandably very worried.
"She knows William is a capable pilot but does not think it is worth the risk for all five of them to carry on flying together and can’t imagine what would happen. It would spark a constitutional crisis."


When it was disclosed last week that the Queen (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/the_queen/index.html) was having 'sleepless nights' over Prince William (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/prince_william/index.html) flying his wife and their children around in a helicopter, there was bemusement as to why she had become so worried.

Now, however, a source close to the monarch has revealed the secret reason for her fear: she's still haunted by a helicopter accident that killed the Captain of the Queen's Flight and three others.

'It put her off completely,' the source tells me. 'That's why she's so worried about William and his family.'
The source says the Queen, who is at Windsor Castle (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/windsor-castle/index.html), will be 'having words' with the Duke of Cambridge when he returns from Norfolk, where he's spending Christmas (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/christmas/index.html) with Catherine and their three children.

The Queen was having 'sleepless nights' over Prince William flying his wife and their children around in a helicopter
The Queen is reportedly still haunted by a helicopter accident that killed the Captain of the Queen's Flight and three others

It was in December 1967 that the Captain of the Queen's Flight, Air Commodore John Blount, was killed when he was flying in a Westland Whirlwind that crashed near Newbury, Berkshire.
Three other members of the Flight were killed.
An inquest blamed metal fatigue in the gearbox. No royal was on board but Prince Philip had recently been flying the same aircraft. The Queen was so upset that she refused to contemplate rotary air travel altogether.
As a result, she did not set foot in a helicopter until, finally, she had no choice.

During her 1977 Silver Jubilee, as my colleague Robert Hardman revealed in his book Our Queen, she was determined to visit all parts of her kingdom.
Her ministers told her that if she wanted to visit Northern Ireland, the only safe way was in a chopper. She obliged, but with a heavy heart.
And to this day, she dislikes them, especially in winter, and will not board one after dark.

Blount was from a distinguished RAF family.
But by the time his relation, James, was choosing a career, he opted for the Army, prior to a career in pop music — when he dropped the 'o' from the family name.

[Vortexringshark]

Having an Air Commodore flying was the first mistake.

[Democritus]

Having an Air Commodore flying was the first mistake.
Vortexringshark - never assume is a lesson well learned in aviation. The pilot was Squadron Leader Jack Liversidge, a highly experienced pilot with a DFC, earned in the Malaya campaign, and an AFC to his name. For completeness the navigator was Flight Lieutenant R Fisher and passengers were Air Commodore Blount and Squadron Leader M W Hermon.

Even if the Air Commodore had been flying there's not much you can do when the main rotor hub and blades decide to depart the aircraft.

[NutLoose]

When I did VC10 Royals in the RAF if memory serves me correctly the heir and next in line we’re forbidden from flying together, I was surprised when I saw William and his family getting off an aircraft together.

[Bell_ringer]

When I did VC10 Royals in the RAF if memory serves me correctly the heir and next in line we’re forbidden from flying together, I was surprised when I saw William and his family getting off an aircraft together.

That would prevent Chuck and William from flying together.

[[email protected]]

I wonder if the Whirlwind accident was what prompted the rules about Royals flying in Mil helicopters - the Royal Flight ones ISTR could not have any components that were past 50% of their expected life and the same rules were applied to our Wessex in Cyprus when we flew Princess Anne back in the 80's.

[NutLoose]

I wonder if the Whirlwind accident was what prompted the rules about Royals flying in Mil helicopters - the Royal Flight ones ISTR could not have any components that were past 50% of their expected life and the same rules were applied to our Wessex in Cyprus when we flew Princess Anne back in the 80's.

Yes, we used to change any component on the VC10 that was over half life, additionally the Queen had her own set of wheels, in the days of trend logs I often thought it stupid to pull engines and fit totally unknown quantities in their place. Additionally we would retrim / refit the cabin with the Royal fit, she also had pure wool gold coloured carpets throughout. The exterior would be hand polished and a prep would take up to 28 days including a spare without the cabin fit in. It may have been a lot of expensive bulls*it but it did keep the fleet up to a good standard, it wasn’t unusual for one to come off a Royal then go down route carrying freight.

if you remember the Andovers with the highly polished undersides on Queens flight, they found they had polished so much metal away it needed reskinning work and then was painted light grey underneath.

Not just Charles and William, but William and his son too BellRinger.

Re the Whirlwind wasn’t it cracking of the “Jesus nut” I seem to remember it was a known problem and there was a NDT procedure in place but tragically the time it took to appear to total failure was less than the time between inspections.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

could not have any components that were past 50% of their expected life and the same rules were applied to our Wessex in Cyprus when we flew Princess Anne back in the 80's.
Interested to read this - when we flew HRH The Princess Royal on her annual visits to the Northern Lights lighthouses (3-4 days, flying off the NLV Pharos) we just used the standard Bond Air Services Bo105. I'm 95% sure no airframe component life issues were raised beforehand - sourcing suitable parts may well have proved impossible.

[NutLoose]

I think it was just a military thing, I remember a few flights were done by BA and I couldn’t see them going to these extremes.

[gsa]

“Blount was from a distinguished RAF family.
But by the time his relation, James, was choosing a career, he opted for the Army, prior to a career in pop music — when he dropped the 'o' from the family name.”

And his dad was Army Air Corps.

[Vortexringshark]

Vortexringshark - never assume is a lesson well learned in aviation. The pilot was Squadron Leader Jack Liversidge, a highly experienced pilot with a DFC, earned in the Malaya campaign, and an AFC to his name. For completeness the navigator was Flight Lieutenant R Fisher and passengers were Air Commodore Blount and Squadron Leader M W Hermon.

Even if the Air Commodore had been flying there's not much you can do when the main rotor hub and blades decide to depart the aircraft.

It was a tongue in cheek comment but I'll admit it was slightly bad taste. Especially as I know nothing of the accident.

[Dave B]

I was on search and rescue Whirlwinds at Leuchars at the time of the accident, we were told that the reason for the main shaft breaking was that Westlands had altered the grinding process of the shafts during manufacture.
The Whirlwinds were grounded, and two SRT Wessex arrived from Odiham to fill in. Much to the relief of the Lightning pilots flying the North Sea.

[Sir Korsky]

I remember climbing in the back of the original Royal C+. It was the only 76 with a vanity mirror in the headliner.

[Ascend Charlie]

I have carried Harry and also Princess Anne in a privately-owned S76, no extra inspections or such.

[[email protected]]

I think it must be military rules then - perhaps because of how the aircraft are used?

I have flown Anne and Charles in Wessex and Lynx respectively and limitations on component life were applied.

However, flying with William on SAR, no extra rules applied.

[Arnie Madsen]

.

(Earlier QUOTE) ..... Prince William has been urged by the Queen not to fly helicopters with Kate Middleton and their children, as she's "terrified" an accident could happen and threaten the line of succession.
_____________________________________________________

The Queen's position is understandable .

I went through something similar when I started my basic helicopter training . My dear sister knew a couple of people who had died in helicopter crashes and thought I was entering a very dangerous occupation.

.

[[email protected]]

Back in the days when we were allowed families days in the RAF and were able to take wives and children flying in the back of helicopters, the same rules applied in that you couldn't fly the aircraft your family were in so I understand where HMTQ is coming from regarding Wills, Kate and the kids.

[trim it out]

Back in the days when we were allowed families days in the RAF and were able to take wives and children flying in the back of helicopters, the same rules applied in that you couldn't fly the aircraft your family were in so I understand where HMTQ is coming from regarding Wills, Kate and the kids.
Family flying still happens Crab (although probably not in the last two years due to Covid), it's not all doom and gloom :ok:

[[email protected]]

Family flying still happens Crab (although probably not in the last two years due to Covid), it's not all doom and gloom https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif Good to know:ok: It's the sort of thing I could imagine being seen as too risky nowadays.

[Rigga]

Interested to read this - when we flew HRH The Princess Royal on her annual visits to the Northern Lights lighthouses (3-4 days, flying off the NLV Pharos) we just used the standard Bond Air Services Bo105. I'm 95% sure no airframe component life issues were raised beforehand - sourcing suitable parts may well have proved impossible.

And the same lack of component changes happened when Wills was training for his FCL and AA duties. BAS stated no special treatment, regardless….
However, I think a bit more attention was paid to his (EAAA) helicopters’ performance stats…

[peteracer26]

What does William fly then?

[Dave B]

Back in prehistoric Helicopter days, I was a volunteer crewman on Belvederes, in the days before it was an established aircrew position, about half a dozen of us airframe and engine men did this as a bit of a change from our normal duties.
In 1963, we were on a major exercise flying from Dartmouth Naval college to ships at sea. I was lumbered with flying from HMS Hermes with Lord Mountbatten and about 16 Generals, Admirals, and Air marshals. There was also a government minister who I think was Roy Jenkins. They all got on the aircraft sitting in troop seats, with lifejackets on apart from the minister who did not have one. A lifejacket was passed up from the deck, and he put it on, but did not fasten up the front buttons. I was sitting in the crew seat, with Mountbatten sitting across looking at me, so I thought I cannot let this guy fly without the lifejacket done up properly, otherwise if we go into the water it will just float off.
So in front of the Lord, and lots of top brass looking at me, I had to try and stuff a well wined and fed government minister into his lifejacket. The buttons would not do up across his ample middle, so I had to reach across his back to release the straps, all the while being observed by the biggest collection of brass I had ever seen.
If that aircraft had gone down, the UK would have been without a defence organization.

[John Eacott]

The absurdity of the 'half life' requirement saw our Sea Kings which were all relatively new and less than a few years old, relegated to the flight deck in May 1973 whilst HRH Lt Chuck was brought over from the Minerva (on which he was G2, and removed from the flight deck on my co-pilot's request: another dit) by jackstay.

Of course that was safer :ok:


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1140x2000/fullsizeoutput_69ad_81c600a7ae2eba0cec5809d2c70e92cc32a5eb1c .jpeg

For lunch with the Admiral, of course :p

[ShyTorque]

Back in the days when we were allowed families days in the RAF and were able to take wives and children flying in the back of helicopters, the same rules applied in that you couldn't fly the aircraft your family were in so I understand where HMTQ is coming from regarding Wills, Kate and the kids.


But that rule also applied when had our UAS families day. Pilots could not fly their own wives in the SEP fixed wing aircraft (Bulldogs back then).

[pants on fire...]

According to various contemporary news reports, the Queen is upset over the use of the Cambridge family's use of helicopters to transport the entire family together. In the event that the Cambridge line of succession was to be extinguished in some way, the Duke of Sussex (the royal formerly known as Prince Harry) would be second in line to the throne, after Prince Charles. If Harry has a valid claim to the throne after all this stuff they've been going through, he would become heir to the throne, and King Harry and Queen Meghan would then take over!

This would make a great dream sequence for the next series of The Windsors, but potentially quite a nightmare for everyone else in the real world!

I'd stick to the old horse and carriage from now on.

[J.A.F.O.]

Luckily, it doesn't really matter a chimpanzee's chuff who wears the sparkly hat as it's all a load of medieval nonsense. So, that's a load off everyone's mind.

[SASless]

My dear sister knew a couple of people who had died in helicopter crashes and thought I was entering a very dangerous occupation.


Your Sis. was spot on!

I once. had a Life Insurance Salesman drop by the house during one of my Leaves.....he was thinking of selling me a Policy.....right up to the point the learned I was headed back to Vietnam flying helicopters in combat.....at which point he closed his briefcase...stood up...and informed me even if the company would approve the policy I would not be able to afford the cost and walked out the door.

[212man]

Your Sis. was spot on!

I once. had a Life Insurance Salesman drop by the house during one of my Leaves.....he was thinking of selling me a Policy.....right up to the point the learned I was headed back to Vietnam flying helicopters in combat.....at which point he closed his briefcase...stood up...and informed me even if the company would approve the policy I would not be able to afford the cost and walked out the door.

not quite as extreme, but had a very similar experience where the combination of “helicopter pilot, oil and gas industry and living in Nigeria” resulted in some sucking of teeth and hand wringing!

[SASless]

Did you tell him about the enhanced physical security measures including those Kevlar Curtains on the crew bus?

[212man]

Did you tell him about the enhanced physical security measures including those Kevlar Curtains on the crew bus?
the Kevlar curtains were fine, but you could still get shot in the arse!

[ShyTorque]

Your Sis. was spot on!

I once. had a Life Insurance Salesman drop by the house during one of my Leaves.....he was thinking of selling me a Policy.....right up to the point the learned I was headed back to Vietnam flying helicopters in combat.....at which point he closed his briefcase...stood up...and informed me even if the company would approve the policy I would not be able to afford the cost and walked out the door.

Similar thing happened to myself and colleagues in one particular role. We were offered a good rate for life insurance by a salesman until his head office looked into what we routinely did. They withdrew the offer entirely. I have to say, with a young family to consider, it was one factor that prompted my decision to move on.

But there’s a lot of dead folks who had “safer” jobs….

[luckyrat]

the Kevlar curtains were fine, but you could still get shot in the arse!
That’s why we sit on our Kevlar helmets 🪖😹

[Nigerian Expat Outlaw]

not quite as extreme, but had a very similar experience where the combination of “helicopter pilot, oil and gas industry and living in Nigeria” resulted in some sucking of teeth and hand wringing!

Same here, I was turned down for a mortgage by one bank due to the same criteria then accepted by that banks "owner" bank a week later. The Kevlar curtain incident hadn't happened at the time.

Compluter says No comes to mind................ :rolleyes:

NEO