DL, CO & NW in Marketing Pcct

[John MacCalman]

Delta, Northwest and Continental have signed a 10- year cooperative marketing agreement to connect the three carriers' domestic and international networks, and include code sharing, frequent flyer program reciprocity, and a reciprocal airport lounge program.

The three carriers are to engage in discussions with their respective European partners regarding trans-Atlantic cooperation and inclusion in the SkyTeam Alliance.

The three airlines have no plans to merge their operations and will retain separate boards, management and headquarters and they will remain competitors.

Full details on each carriers own website.
Northwest (http://www.nwa.com/corpinfo/newsc/2002/pr082320021009.html)
Continental (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/micro_stories.pl?ACCT=204100&TICK=CAL&STORY=/www/story/08-23-2002/0001788323&EDATE=Aug+23,+2002)
Delta (http://www.delta.com/home/press/tacindex.jsp?file=8008727d_content.html&tactype=Current&tacitem=Release&title=Delta%20Air%20Lines%20Signs%20Marketing%20Agreement%20 with%20Continental%20Airlines%20and%20Northwest%20Airlines)

[Lavdumperer]

I am thinking there is one hurdle to jump before this is approved: Delta's pilots union....

Over the last year, Delta's management has treated its pilots with absolute disdain and disrespect. Claiming that "force Majeur" was still in effect despite increasing passenger numbers, management continued to lay-off pilots who had a no-furlough clause in their contract. Complete disrespect.

Now, the airline will REQUIRE PILOT UNION APPROVAL before the code-sharing can take place.

Time for all furloughs to be halted and pilots to gradually be called back (on a schedule). This code share will not help pilots - it will hurt them because routes can be consolidated and less capacity will be required.

Southwest's management doesn't disrespect its pilots and look at what they have been able to do... Southwest is growing, not contracting. Both the pilots and the management need to work together to facilitate growth in the future...


Cheers

[Airbubba]

Good to see DALPA taking some interest in furloughed pilots for a change!

[redtail]

Wouldn't it be short sighted for the Delta pilots to say no to this agreement? From my side of the agreement it looks like a good deal for all involved.

[Michael707767]

**Wouldn't it be short sighted for the Delta pilots to say no to this agreement? From my side of the agreement it looks like a good deal for all involved.**

A good deal for the airlines, yes. I see no postive benefit to the pilots of any of the three airlines. There will be little or no growth in jobs, in fact, the airlines will probably shrink even more as they cut out flights on routes where the three overlap.

[None]

I'm wondering if such an agreement creates more business, or simply redistributes existing traffic? If it redistributes, certainly there would be a surplus at each individual carrier.

[Seriph]

Of course the airlines exist solely for the benefit of the pilots. Ageeing to anything that is good for the airline but not in the short term for the pilots would be anathema to any self respecting trade unionist. Doesn't it make you want to weep. I am often obliged to demonstrate to the disbelieving that not all pilots are intelligent beings, selections from these forums usually convinces them.

[John MacCalman]

A good deal for the airlines, yes. I see no postive benefit to the pilots of any of the three airlines. There will be little or no growth in jobs, in fact, the airlines will probably shrink even more as they cut out flights on routes where the three overlap.


The main reason CO, DL and NW have got together in this alliance is to be able to compete with the two other major international partnerships, Star Alliance and Oneworld.

It is more a marketing exercise for survival than a cost cutting one. Continental and Northwest share many routes but still compete on them.

There is a strong likelihood that KLM, Air France, and Alitalia will all become part of this group.

[redtail]

Feeding more passengers to my airline sounds like a plus. I also don't remember any layoffs when we started a code share with either KLM or CAL. Refresh my memory on how those code shares worked out.

[John MacCalman]

Feeding more passengers to my airline sounds like a plus. I also don't remember any layoffs when we started a code share with either KLM or CAL. Refresh my memory on how those code shares worked out
On the CAL codeshare there were no layoffs but the KLM situation was very different.

While the pilot community came out of the deal relatively unscathed there were route losses for NWA which were partly due to the code-share and partly due to the change in strategic policy at the MSP HQ.

Around 10 years ago NWA decided to work on three core strengths - Its Pacific operation at Narita, the hubs at MSP, DTW and MEM and the partnership with KLM. As a result they downsized stations like Boston and Milwaukee which were then working as min-hubs. Transatlantic routes from BOS to GLA and BOS to LGW and I think BOS to CDG were all closed.

Passengers had to use the AMS hub and use KLM feeders to get to their European Destinations. In Europe the whole marketing operation was closed and handed over to KLM.

While short term the effect seemed to be a loss of routes for the red tails, the long term effect was major growth of the Amsterdam hub and consequent increase in NWA aircraft serving that hub.

Ten years ago before the partnership with KLM there were only two red tails a day in Amsterdam - a BOS and a DTW. Now there are around 11 with BOS, MSP (2), DTW (2), EWR, JFK, IAD, MIA, SEA and BOM.

[Ignition Override]

Don't take the bait up there.

[AA717driver]

You don't want to sound like a greedy pilot now, do you? Just because flying that could be done by your own airline will be covered by another, furloughs that will increase could be reduced and pax that NW's marketing could directly influence can now be pissed off in ATL;) .

Better get on board and help keep those fares down and the choices up for our "loyal", non-price-sensitive customers...TC

P.S.--Hope y'all are doing ok. We're hanging in here in IND.

[Michael707767]

**Of course the airlines exist solely for the benefit of the pilots. Ageeing to anything that is good for the airline but not in the short term for the pilots would be anathema to any self respecting trade unionist. Doesn't it make you want to weep. I am often obliged to demonstrate to the disbelieving that not all pilots are intelligent beings, selections from these forums usually convinces them**

I think this was a shot at me, so I will respond. No where did I say that the pilots should turn down this deal. Someone else had said it looks like a good deal for all involved. I am simply pointing out that it may not be a good deal for the pilots specifically, but really all employees. In the end though, I realize that anything which keeps the airline in business and profitable is good for the majority of the employees. Don't assume that pointing out the downside means we don't see the upside.