View Full Version : 9-11 flight deck crews salary docked

22nd Aug 2002, 12:08
Just reported on ABC morning news: United flight deck crews widows received docked salaries for 11 September, due to the flights not being completed!!

22nd Aug 2002, 12:19
Beancounters united!:mad:

Piz Buin
22nd Aug 2002, 12:32
Believable :mad:

22nd Aug 2002, 12:34
jdoe just updated that the family concessions were withdrawn on 23rd Oct 2001.

What a load of bankers!

DX Wombat
22nd Aug 2002, 13:16
From a mere passenger's point of view may I say that, to put it mildly, I am disgusted. UA is one airline I will now never fly with. Where are the sensationalist journalists when they are really needed? :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad::(

22nd Aug 2002, 13:41
I do not understand what this big fuss is all about.
Other benefits will kick in and as i understand trust funds were created for them.

And before somebody start throwing insults, yes I am a pilot and could face the same destiny (God help me)...

22nd Aug 2002, 15:42
If it's true, it just seeems so wrong...

They should be paid as if they completed their last flight, which is the way I look at it.

22nd Aug 2002, 15:45
So does that mean the relatives of the people on the flight are due a refund since the flight never completed? :rolleyes:

22nd Aug 2002, 17:13
This is absolutely disgusting on the part of UA. This action will cost them a hell of a lot of PR, on an airline that is wavering into extinction. It's a damn shame to let the bean counters take over and not let the PR people know. On the other hand, if the PR people knew about it, then damn the airline.

22nd Aug 2002, 17:50
thats worse than the military! the widows of the raf aircrew killed in the gulf war got 13 weeks of their husbands salary as well as a widows pension. i cant believe united has stopped their free flights either, how much goodwill will that cost the company? yes i know there will be trust funds but if it had been virgin involved i bet sir richard wouldnt have stopped the free flights!

22nd Aug 2002, 18:05

Even if it's not that big a deal with regard to the amount of money, it clearly is a total lack of respect towards the F/D Crew and their widows, and it's also a principal. If it's not that big a deal, then it shouldn't be big deal if they were to have it either. That way UA would avoid this negative publicity in an ever so difficult time.


22nd Aug 2002, 18:05
Let's put everything on hold for a moment. I've searched ABC News U.S. and ABC Australian Broadcasting Co. and I can not find a story that even vaguely resembles this report, yet I may be wrong. I've asked the original poster for more information regarding the origin of this news item.

Kalium Chloride
22nd Aug 2002, 20:14
Before we all become too outraged, is it possible that the payment is calculated by some computer deep in the bowels of UAL headquarters and that nobody thought to tell said computer that the flight was cut short for hitherto well-documented reasons?

If the wage docking exists at all, I can't believe that it's down to a human decision. Sounds more like one of those "deceased chap sent gas bill" type affairs.

22nd Aug 2002, 22:07
I'm just waiting for the shutdown of this post. There are a lot of union issues to be settled before United can unilaerally cut someone's pay, and United flatly denies that this was the case.

22nd Aug 2002, 23:14
Latvia, I have searched AP, Reuters, NY Times, USA Today, Chicago Tribune, Washington Post, ABC, and even the New York Post, and there is no evidence of such a story.

23rd Aug 2002, 03:24
If the Company has docked the salaries of the deceased crew, it sounds like they must have been in consultation with SIA!

Ignition Override
23rd Aug 2002, 05:13
Southernmtn- Watch out! They might be walking around in the large bamboo, looking for a long heavy stick to beat you with...or can they hold your remarks against you during a checkride?

23rd Aug 2002, 05:23
Generally I try to avoid gratuitous bashing (and this may be my first) but it sounds like somebody from UAL graduated from the 411A school of airline management....

...you know,
if it's true at all.:) :D :cool: ;) :p :rolleyes:

23rd Aug 2002, 08:48
Unfortunately, very true. It was reported on the ABC morning show yesterday and had three of the widows in the studio.

23rd Aug 2002, 13:37
Jdoe, then I applogize for the former suspicion.

I subscribe to the 'computer program' theory, no human in their right mind would demand a pay cut in these circumstances.


Mr A Tis
23rd Aug 2002, 16:19
Lost for words.
All I can say is that I won't be flying with United again.

23rd Aug 2002, 19:38
Surely the union that the late flight crews belonged to have an opinion on this and a plan to deal with it?
To the managers at UA who dealt with this-have the balls to identify yourselves!

El Grifo
24th Aug 2002, 12:04
I think 747FOCAL gets the prize here for the best bit of lateral thinking.

Excellent point Dude !!!! :cool:

25th Aug 2002, 19:21
Regarding my earlier postings on this subject, jdoe was right in reporting the ABC Good Morning America report and I was wrong in lambasting it. My sincere apologies.

The background is this. It was a computer glitch at United which printed out the unfinished flight and some bean counter automatically docked some money off salaries.

Apparently thee of the widows appeared on that ABC morning show after the whole mixup had already been taken care of by United with apparently the checks being in the mail.

ABC never invited a UA spokesman to be on the show, nor did it call the half dozen or so mouthpieces for UA, from VP of public affairs on down. As a former reporter, I know that every news organization has these phone numbers where someone answers be it day or night.

When other news agencies and newspapers called the issue had already been resolved and that's why you don't find anything in print today -- not because they were being kind to UA -- but because it was not true.

Again my apologies to jdoe who went on his best hunch and merely passed on a report.

26th Aug 2002, 08:33
Before we all become too outraged, is it possible that the payment is calculated by some computer deep in the bowels of UAL headquarters and that nobody thought to tell said computer that the flight was cut short for hitherto well-documented reasons?

Looks like you were right after all KC...

26th Aug 2002, 09:37
There may have been legal considerations.
Many years ago when Sirwa went the other way :eek: (undgerground, not in the sky). When I worked for the National Coal Board, there was a policy then that if anyone was killed in an industrial accident in the mine then their salary (we called it wages then) would stop at the moment of death. Now this at first seemd very heavy handed and unfair until it was pointed out that there was every likelyhood of a compensation claim being made and the NCB were required by their lawers to discontinue accruing salary and benefits for the departed.
In general this helped the legal position of both parties and was accepted as standard practice.
I do not pretend to know what the legal arguments were, perhaps one of our dorsal equipped Ppruners would care to elaborate. ;)

26th Aug 2002, 12:24
For merchant seamen, in the event that their ship sank, no matter how many days the ship had been at sea, the crew received no wages for the uncompleted voyage; nor did the families of those who didn't survive receive any back pay. When I saw the original post I thought that this was a continuation of the tradition. I'm relieved that it was a mix-up.

If any present or former merchant navy crew see this, perhaps they could confirm if the old tradition is still practiced?

Through difficulties to the cinema