Captured Chinooks in Afghanistan

[myassisgrass]

Recent media photos show captured CH-47s (Boeing 234s?) in non-military colours. Are they civilian owned and operated or military owned and operated or a mix of both?

[Bksmithca]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/britain-opens-talks-with-taliban-to-bring-home-those-left-in-afghanistan-3dbzhflgk
if this is the image your referring to its not a Chinook it's a CH46 Sea Knight. Not seeing any markings and it may have belonged to the Afghanistan Air Force?

[KiwiNedNZ]

They are Phrogs are were operated by Embassy Air aka Dept of State Air Wing.

[reefrat]

Looks like a Vertol?

[Nescafe]

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42060/the-state-department-has-abandoned-its-ch-46-helicopters-in-afghanistan


The U.S. State Department has confirmed that seven CH-46E Sea Knight helicopters (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42036/five-decades-after-evacuating-the-embassy-in-saigon-the-ch-46-phrog-did-it-again-in-kabul), also colloquially known as "Phrogs," belonging to its Air Wing have been rendered inoperable and abandoned in Afghanistan as part of the ongoing evacuation effort (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42029/rc-135w-rivet-joint-spy-plane-is-flying-orbits-over-kabul). This non-combatant evacuation operation, or NEO, could very well be the last major mission ever for any Sea Knight belonging to the U.S. government, with the State Department already in the process of divesting its entire fleet.
In addition, the Pentagon says that this NEO could be the second largest (https://www.politico.com/news/2021/08/18/pentagon-kabul-evacuations-taliban-505919) in American military history, the other being the evacuation of Americans and others from South Vietnam in 1975. As The War Zonehas already reported (https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42036/five-decades-after-evacuating-the-embassy-in-saigon-the-ch-46-phrog-did-it-again-in-kabul), there is evidence that at least one of the State Department's now-abandoned Sea Knights in Afghanistan, which it originally obtained second-hand from the U.S. Marine Corps, took part in both operations.
https://www.thedrive.com/content-b/message-editor%2F1629329810500-state-department-phrog.jpg?quality=60
US ARMYA US State Department CH-46E Sea Knight with US civil registration code N38TU. There is evidence that points to the possibility that this helicopter, then in service with the US Marine Corps, took part in Operation Frequent Wind, the evacuation of Americans and others from South Vietnam in 1975, and then also helped get people from the US Embassy in Kabul to nearby Hamird Karzai International Airport on Aug. 15, 2021.
"The Department left seven CH-46 helicopters behind in Afghanistan which were rendered inoperable," a State Department official, speaking on background, told The War Zone. "These helicopters were already being phased out of the Department’s inventory and were slated for eventual destruction due to age and supportability issues."

[KiwiNedNZ]

Reefrat - Phrog is a Vertol :)

[krismiler]

The Iranians will probably get them and have them rebuilt in a few months. They have extensive capabilities in keeping aircraft from the1970s in serviceable flying condition. I would expect to see most, if not all of the former Afghan Airforce back in the air in IRIAF colors.

[chopper2004]

The Iranians will probably get them and have them rebuilt in a few months. They have extensive capabilities in keeping aircraft from the1970s in serviceable flying condition. I would expect to see most, if not all of the former Afghan Airforce back in the air in IRIAF colors.

IIAF don’t need them tbh with what they have in their inventory ….

cheers

[mickjoebill]

"captured"?

Mjb

[AnglianAV8R]

You're watching a movie

[gulliBell]

I bet Columbia wishes it could get its hands on them.

[JoeCool88]

Once the Airworthiness Review Certificates are expired, the h/c are worthless for the Taliban, anyway :ok:

[meleagertoo]

Why have these and the rest of the Afghan Air Force aircraft not been torched? Even if they are rendered 'unflyable' they've presented the Taliban with a vast amount of valuable spares and parts to swamp the world markets with, quite apart from the propaganda points they score by parading this vastly. And if the vast stores of spares remain intact what's to stop Iran od otheres offering support to fix them up again?

[admiral ackbar]

Why have these and the rest of the Afghan Air Force aircraft not been torched? Even if they are rendered 'unflyable' they've presented the Taliban with a vast amount of valuable spares and parts to swamp the world markets with, quite apart from the propaganda points they score by parading this vastly. And if the vast stores of spares remain intact what's to stop Iran od otheres offering support to fix them up again?

Big chunk of the air force and pilots flew to Uzbekistan apparently
https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/uzbekistan-warns-u-s-that-afghan-pilots-and-their-families-cant-stay-11630315800

​​​​​

[JimEli]

"rendered inoperable"
How? Painting over the registration markings? Taking the doors and windows off? Took the keys?

[Duck Pilot]

Once the Airworthiness Review Certificates are expired, the h/c are worthless for the Taliban, anyway :ok:

And you recon the Taliban are going to recognise anything to do with airworthiness of the aircraft?

[helicrazi]

And you recon the Taliban are going to recognise anything to do with airworthiness of the aircraft?

Love it when sarcasm is totally missed

[The Sultan]

"rendered inoperable"
How? Painting over the registration markings? Taking the doors and windows off? Took the keys?

For the 46's I've seen a shortage of hydraulic fluid will do nicely. On a 46 you know it is out of hydraulic fluid when it stops dripping on your head.

[Duck Pilot]

Love it when sarcasm is totally missed

Sarcasm missed? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion 🤡

[SLFstu]

"rendered inoperable"
How? Painting over the registration markings? Taking the doors and windows off? Took the keys?
Easy as. Remove the dizzy cap. LOL.
Spose they cut the looms & removed the guts of the avionics. Oh and the wipers of course!
What an incredible loss of coin.
When the US military turned OFF the mains and sneaked out of Bagram Airfield in the middle of the night in early July without notifying their Afghan partners the local looters quickly followed.
The hundreds of abandoned armoured vehicles were a bit hard to sneak off with I'm guessing. And the keys were taken by the thoughtful departing troops.
https://apnews.com/article/bagram-afghanistan-airfield-us-troops-f3614828364f567593251aaaa167e623

On the other hand it was nice of Uncle Joe to ensure the Taliban were gifted a fully working Kabul airport infrastructure at midnight on August 30.

PS. I'm just an old Aussie boomer, no skin in the game.

[Ninthace]

Easy as. Remove the dizzy cap. LOL.
On the other hand it was nice of Uncle Joe to ensure the Taliban were gifted a fully working Kabul airport infrastructure at midnight on August 30.
.
Kabul airport was not the property of the US govt so could not be "gifted". Fully working??? Gonna need a few brooms first. Taliban or no Taliban, the airfield may still be needed if only for aid flights.

[SLFstu]

Kabul airport was not the property of the US govt so could not be "gifted". Fully working??? Gonna need a few brooms first. Taliban or no Taliban, the airfield may still be needed if only for aid flights.
You are correct of course.
I too had omitted my "/sarc" marks for that sentence of mine.

[PANews]

The worlds stock of MD530 helicopters is suddenly diminished. A few years ago (when she was in charge at Mesa) Lynn Tilton kicked aside all/most of the civil market aspirations of MDHI and went with the DoD military deal that was going to save the company. The result has been that most of recent production has been the military airframes for the Afghan Air Force. True there have been a few military sales to such as Nigeria but the bulk was Afghan.

Into the future it appeared that the company was assured of regular spares and repairs from the initial sale and then the repeated top up sales.

Now that appears to be in tatters and all of a sudden [it seems] the MDHI management are belatedly approaching the civil US market they abandoned [so callously?] for the golden future that was in Afghanistan. Look we have not really dumped all those 530/902 projects we presented at HAI year after year.... we were just kidding... and look we are no longer putting parts production in house because we have been let down by fellow industrialists ... we are outsourcing [again]. Nose gets longer and longer.

It is possible that the discerning customer, the one that lived through the years of no spares available, may have tired of the duplicity and the hard times in Mesa are going to get harder.

[filejw]

The worlds stock of MD530 helicopters is suddenly diminished. A few years ago (when she was in charge at Mesa) Lynn Tilton kicked aside all/most of the civil market aspirations of MDHI and went with the DoD military deal that was going to save the company. The result has been that most of recent production has been the military airframes for the Afghan Air Force. True there have been a few military sales to such as Nigeria but the bulk was Afghan.

Into the future it appeared that the company was assured of regular spares and repairs from the initial sale and then the repeated top up sales.

Now that appears to be in tatters and all of a sudden [it seems] the MDHI management are belatedly approaching the civil US market they abandoned [so callously?] for the golden future that was in Afghanistan. Look we have not really dumped all those 530/902 projects we presented at HAI year after year.... we were just kidding... and look we are no longer putting parts production in house because we have been let down by fellow industrialists ... we are outsourcing [again]. Nose gets longer and longer.

It is possible that the discerning customer, the one that lived through the years of no spares available, may have tired of the duplicity and the hard times in Mesa are going to get harder.

And people really wonder why this lasted 20 years...contracts and $$$$$$..

[Ant]

Not just helicopters, but apparently one or more C-130 aircraft as well.
See BBC news clip https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-58393243

So 2 questions along with apology for some thread drift:

Firstly, would the Taliban be able to fly and service a Herc to any realistic extent, assuming the somewhat unlikely scenario that they would find an actual use for it?
Then secondly, why on earth would machinery of that strategic and monetary value have been left behind?

[MechEngr]

Not just helicopters, but apparently one or more C-130 aircraft as well.
See BBC news clip

So 2 questions along with apology for some thread drift:

Firstly, would the Taliban be able to fly and service a Herc to any realistic extent, assuming the somewhat unlikely scenario that they would find an actual use for it?
Then secondly, why on earth would machinery of that strategic and monetary value have been left behind?

Machinery is left behind when the cost in human lives exceeds the value of the machinery - To get that machinery out,someone has to guard it while it it being prepped. If it's a helicopter that number will usually exceed the passenger capacity of the helicopter. If not, then as soon as the guards climb into the helicopter, the position is subject to being overrun and the helicopter is an easy target, now filled with people escaping.

No doubt the Taliban will force or otherwise encourage former Afghan forces into service. If any of them were trained to fly, the sure, the Taliban could, conceivably, fly them. However, they aren't much use to the Taliban unless as a transport for the leadership. I expect they were damaged in a way that they are irreparable except by building a new helicopter within the old fuselage sheet metal.

[Jetstream67]

"rendered inoperable"
How? Painting over the registration markings? Taking the doors and windows off? Took the keys?
Logged the ipads out of facebook and let the tyres down . . I suspect most false flag operations in the region will be 'confirmed US forces aircraft' for some time to come.

[Jetstream67]

"rendered inoperable"
How? Painting over the registration markings? Taking the doors and windows off? Took the keys?
I hate to say it but the 'lone spitfire' pilot in the Dunkirk movie did a far better job in 30 seconds . .

[aroa]

Jetty.. Ah ….that icon ending to the movie, the long final glide to the beach byTHE aircraft of the time. Beautiful.
( No real Spitfire was immoliated in this movie) And I love the Hurricane re BoB also.


Thread…pics in tv show lots of damage to those helicopters. Where’s the spares to do any rebuilds? Maybe useful parts will get sold off or a/c salvaged. Where there’s a wheeler-dealer there’s a way !

[reefrat]

Reefrat - Phrog is a Vertol :)
Ah So! thanks for that.

[mickjoebill]

More details as to the degree of inoperableness of abandoned aircraft in this fairly detailed video report
A list of aircraft in the hands of Taliban here:

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2021/08/the-taliban-air-force-inventory.html

mjb
https://youtu.be/mHaJq1sNCyQ

[Granny]

I bet they don't wish they could get their hands on them!

[N707ZS]

Parts from the burnt BA 747 from Kuwait re appeared on the market.

[Wannabe Flyer]

Probably land up with the Pakistani Air Force who will salvage what they need & fix what they can

[nomorehelosforme]

From the Daily Mail.....The Taliban say they are 'angry and disappointed' and feel 'betrayed' after America left so many inoperable helicopters and planes because 'the aircraft belong to Afghanistan'Taliban (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/the-taliban/index.html) fighters have been left feeling 'angry' and 'betrayed' after discovering the US had disabled military helicopters and planes before their departure from Kabul.

US troops 'demilitarised' 73 aircraft before their departure this week according to the commander of the US evacuation mission, Gen. Frank McKenzie.

That left up to 48 aircraft in the hands of the terror group, although it was not known how many were operable.


But the Taliban had 'expected the Americans to leave helicopters like this in one piece for their use', according to an Al Jazeera reporter who toured the airport after the withdrawal.

She said: 'When I said to them, "why do you think that the Americans would have left everything operational for you?" They said because we believe it is a national asset and we are the government now and this could have come to great use for us.'

She added: 'They are disappointed, they are angry, they feel betrayed because all of this equipment is broken beyond repair.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9950443/The-Taliban-say-angry-feel-betrayed-disabled-helicopters-planes.html

[mickjoebill]

More video from Kabul airport. Close up pics of interior "decomissioned" Blackhawk
https://youtu.be/9YNwMWOsBPI

[icemanalgeria]

I don’t understand why these aircraft didn’t fly out to surrounding countries for later airlift home. There must be a good reason

[Fareastdriver]

No contractors left to service them, no Afghan pilots to fly them.

[N707ZS]

Presume if it was on the other foot the Taliban would have left them rigged with IEDs.

[Fun_police]

Might be good for propaganda purposes as about 1/2 of the US electorate is ready to believe that the Taliban will be able to fly those abandoned helicopters to the homeland and wreak havoc with them…

[RatherBeFlying]

The truce agreement at the end of GWI allowed Saddam to continue flying helicopters, which were then put to use machine gunning the Kurds and Shi'as who rose up in rebellion in response to Bush I's call on national television:mad:

[sandiego89]

Not just helicopters, but apparently one or more C-130 aircraft as well.
See BBC news clip https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-58393243

So 2 questions along with apology for some thread drift:

Firstly, would the Taliban be able to fly and service a Herc to any realistic extent, assuming the somewhat unlikely scenario that they would find an actual use for it?
Then secondly, why on earth would machinery of that strategic and monetary value have been left behind?

That once proud Herky bird sure is canted to the left- imagine some serious strut issues on the left main, good luck with that.

I do note that the BBC and AJ piece both cite the abandoned "US Military helicopters" indicating the US military left them, but then show the little birds and Mil helos with clearly Afghan military markings. I have no illusions about who paid for these aircraft or their original sources, and maybe who did some work with them, but these were not quite "US Military". The 46's were with the US State department, and likely had little need after the Afghan mission.

[TEEEJ]

Not just helicopters, but apparently one or more C-130 aircraft as well.
See BBC news clip https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-58393243

So 2 questions along with apology for some thread drift:

Firstly, would the Taliban be able to fly and service a Herc to any realistic extent, assuming the somewhat unlikely scenario that they would find an actual use for it?
Then secondly, why on earth would machinery of that strategic and monetary value have been left behind?

The C-130 is Afghan Air Force. It was likely unserviceable and has been left disabled.

[krismiler]

The worlds stock of MD530 helicopters is suddenly diminished. A few years ago (when she was in charge at Mesa) Lynn Tilton kicked aside all/most of the civil market aspirations of MDHI and went with the DoD military deal that was going to save the company. The result has been that most of recent production has been the military airframes for the Afghan Air Force. True there have been a few military sales to such as Nigeria but the bulk was Afghan.

The North Koreans got their hands on a few of the earlier model back in the 1980s.
https://news.yahoo.com/north-korea-got-hands-87-090000711.html

[mickjoebill]

I do note that the BBC and AJ piece both cite the abandoned "US Military helicopters" indicating the US military left them, but then show the little birds and Mil helos with clearly Afghan military markings. I have no illusions about who paid for these aircraft or their original sources, and maybe who did some work with them, but these were not quite "US Military". The 46's were with the US State department, and likely had little need after the Afghan mission.
A point worth highlighting.

mjb

[etrang]

And you recon the Taliban are going to recognise anything to do with airworthiness of the aircraft?

No understanding of sarcasm is the one thing the Taliban and Americans have in common.

[aa777888]

No understanding of sarcasm is the one thing the Taliban and Americans have in common.
Maybe you mean Australians? Because Duck's profile says he's from "Darwin and PNG".

Most Americans I know have a very fine understanding of sarcasm :ok:

[minigundiplomat]

Once the Airworthiness Review Certificates are expired, the h/c are worthless for the Taliban, anyway :ok:

sure, the TB are sticklers for compliance.

[212man]

sure, the TB are sticklers for compliance.
They certainly are - for some rules

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1125x865/41fedd75_2125_4f5b_98a2_bc7aae530efd_c58e4cc04a56612273b734b 5e83bb6b36f18b34f.jpeg

[[email protected]]

Maybe there is a section in the Koran that deals with airworthiness............

[alicopter]

I would have thought that, with the amount of poppies growing in the region, they do not need aircrafts in order to fly anyway!!!

[as350nut]

I wonder how long it will be before training schools in the US get inundated with request for training to fly all these aircraft?

[mickjoebill]

How many pics of aircraft left behind, with USA livery?

Mjb