Was he Correct in Speaking Out. [Archive]

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ORAC

28th Aug 2021, 06:13

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/27/us-marines-stuart-scheller-video

US Marines officer relieved of duties after video seeking ‘accountability’ over Afghanistan

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/a-marine-posted-a-video-calling-out-senior-leaders-in-afghanistan-he-was-relieved-of-command/

….As a member of the Marines for 17 years, he had not yet hit the 20-year mark to qualify for a full pension.

He later posted that fellow Marines asked him to immediately take down the post: “We all agree with you, Stu, but nothing will change, and it will come at a huge personal cost to you,” Scheller recalled them saying.

But he said in the video that he had thought through the consequences. “What you believe in can only be defined by what you’re willing to risk,” he said, adding that he was risking his battalion commander position, family stability and retirement. “I think that gives me some moral high ground to demand the same honesty, accountability and integrity from my senior leaders.”

About 18 hours after he uploaded the video, he posted that he had been relieved from duty.

https://youtu.be/huRnA0FfDB0

KPax

28th Aug 2021, 09:32

Just read this and wondered what your thoughts are regarding using Social media to speak out, I know it is not Aviation related but could apply across the board, taken from the Mail.
Active duty Marine Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller was relieved of his duty for saying senior leaders need to take accountability for botched, fatal Afghanistan evacuation in widely shared video. 'The reason people are so upset on social media right now is not because the Marine on the battlefield let someone down,' Scheller said in a nearly five-minute video posted on Facebook and LinkedIn. 'People are upset because their senior leaders let them down. And none of them are raising their hands and accepting accountability or saying, "We messed this up."' The video has been shared on Facebook over 23,000 times by Friday evening and has over 3,100 comments, most of which are supporting Scheller's bravery for speaking out. He was relieved of his duties hours later. The Marines said in a statement to DailyMail.com, ''This is obviously an emotional time for a lot of Marines, and we encourage anyone struggling right now to seek counseling or talk to a fellow Marine. There is a forum in which Marine leaders can address their disagreements with the chain of command, but it's not social media.' Scheller knew he was risking his stellar 17-year career by posting the video. 'I have been fighting for 17 years. I am willing to throw it all away to say to my senior leaders, "I demand accountability."'

VictorSR

28th Aug 2021, 13:04

SASless

28th Aug 2021, 14:25

As it is said...."The Truth shall set you free.".

Although I admire the guy's grit....making himself another martyr shall not change things one small bit.

He is a Leader....and not just a Commander....and sadly there are far too few like him in the Senior Ranks of the Military.

We are seeing today something very similar to the Vietnam years when the Joint Chiefs and senior Combatant Command positions do not offer their Resignations upon being given incredibly stupid orders or see bone headed decisions that defy reality.

Sadly, ours is not the only Military suffering from this kind of environment today.

You did see where Admiral Mullen.....who was the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs recently admitted publicly of having been wrong about his decisions on Afghanistan Strategies for years.

Sadly, he did not go into detail on how it happened he and so many other Senior Commanders and National Security Officials got it so wrong for so long.

esscee

28th Aug 2021, 15:40

Too right he was. Many in rank between him up to and including "Sleepy Joe" ought to hang their head's in shame and resign. No honour any more at all, example when Lord Carrington resigned over the Falklands, "Not my fault but I am the man in charge at FCO, therefore must resign", or words to that effect.

langleybaston

28th Aug 2021, 15:51

Incredibly difficult subject, especially for those in positions near the top of the food chain.

I say that because people near the top have [or should have] enough clout to do a bit of steering, a bit of correcting, a bit of nudging. If such a person falls on his/her sword, the replacement might be just a greasy-pole climber. Then we have a lose-lose situation.

For those at and below about one star, they can do little to influence policy or events, and, after making their protest, the sea just fills the hole.

I salute the man, and I do hope he has a Plan B.

MPN11

28th Aug 2021, 16:55

Thank you, LB … that saved me a lot of typing.

Kiltrash

28th Aug 2021, 18:22

Unfortunate but in any walk of life the Commander in chief has the last word unless impeached
In work if you disagree with those higher up and you have not been able to change the direction you have a choice to make....
Put up or shut up...he chose to put up.
Will now be seen as a troublemaker
God bless you sir....

Out Of Trim

28th Aug 2021, 19:41

He seems like a good man. Perhaps, the Royal Marines should offer him a job if the USMC don't want him! 🤔

sheikhthecamel

28th Aug 2021, 19:58

As a marine, he was probably familiar with Boyd's fork in the road "To Be or To Do"...
Unfortunately men like Col. Scheller, or Col. Boyd never make it far enough up the hierarchy to really make a difference.

tdracer

28th Aug 2021, 20:07

Funny, under the previous administration many senior military commanders openly critizied the POTUS - without apparent repercussions.

Oh, and he's absolutely right - no one is being held accountable. They won't even admit that abandoning their biggest airbase was a huge mistake.

highflyer40

28th Aug 2021, 20:25

I personally think it was a waste. He is a good man and maybe a great leader, but now he has thrown it all away. His statement will be forgotten by next week. Had he kept it within the service then he had a chance of moving up the ranks and maybe actually having a chance to make a difference.

henra

28th Aug 2021, 21:34

Beyond his vote, it is specifically not his responsibility to require accountability from his seniors, again, especially his elected political leaders.
Maybe not. But obviously those whose responsibility it would have been failed to do so. What is the consequence? Are those on top never to be held accountable?! They can get away with everything?! Only the lower guys get sacked?! Maybe North Korea might be a great place for You to live. In North Korea you wouldn't have to worry about lower ranks speaking up. China might be a suitable plan B for You. The guys on top can do any mess without being questioned.
I'm happy to live in a world where higher ranks are not sacred and untouchable and can be criticised. That said I'm not sure that in this case it was worth it. He will get sacked and nothing will change.

langleybaston

28th Aug 2021, 22:25

"US Marines officer relieved of duties after video seeking ‘accountability’ over Afghanistan"

I take offense with military officers whom take it upon themselves to publicly criticize those appointed over them. Especially their elected leaders. It's not courage to do so. It's lake of emotional control, therefor lack of command ability. This same man has undoubtedly prosecuted, via the UCMJ, others under him for similar offense. If not, he certainly has been entrusted with the ability to do so. What he is doing is disloyal and he is making a poor example for those he himself commands. He has voluntarily given up his civil rights to unquestionably serve at the pleasure of the President of the United States and taken an oath to obey. Clearly he is incapable of command and must be removed. Beyond his vote, it is specifically not his responsibility to require accountability from his seniors, again, especially his elected political leaders. I am ashamed of the Marine Corps that this man could reach the rank of O-5 and not have the discipline to perform his duty.

Go ON. Tell US what YOU really THINK.“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,” (https://www.openculture.com/2016/03/edmund-burkeon-in-action.html)

NutLoose

28th Aug 2021, 23:05

To not speak out when those above you are obviously doing wrong and not admitting it is an even greater crime in my eyes, if more had spoken out during ww2 then some of the German atrocities might not have happened.

Rightly or wrongly in your eyes, the President and his government are elected officials and as elected officials they are accountable to the public they serve, be they in uniform or not.
Every man, women and child should have the right to critique their Government and President and seek their atonement for their errors.

You say he isn’t a leader, well far from it, to lead it takes guts and he has them in spades full, his thoughts are with his men and those put in harms way by incompetence and ineptitude and he is fighting their corner, he has put his future on the line and his pension, so has lots to lose.

I would promote him and secure his pension, he has more sense of honour and decency than any of those above him who cower and are subservient to the wishes of someone clearly well out of his depth, without the slightest guts to tell it as it is.

TBM-Legend

29th Aug 2021, 01:34

Erwin Rommel paid the price for having the courage to speak out against Hitler and his gang along with others.

Speaking out and not just whinging is the measure of the man. Pity more don't...

nolimitholdem

29th Aug 2021, 01:40

His method of "taking issue" with his superior officers must be heavily considered. It's one thing to express misgivings through the chain of command, quite another to post a YouTube video to the world and bring your entire service into disrepute.

Reducing incredibly complex issues into stupidly simple binary right-wrong questions is the hallmark of our time, so it comes as no surprise that many would see the pointless discarding of a career as something taking "guts". Foolishness now passes for noble and brave.

Have to agree with XXmet completely - not worthy of command for his lack of judgement alone. Whether he is "right" or "wrong" is completely irrelevant to that point.

minigundiplomat

29th Aug 2021, 01:43

"US Marines officer relieved of duties after video seeking ‘accountability’ over Afghanistan"

I take offense with military officers whom take it upon themselves to publicly criticize those appointed over them. Especially their elected leaders. It's not courage to do so. It's lake of emotional control, therefor lack of command ability. This same man has undoubtedly prosecuted, via the UCMJ, others under him for similar offense. If not, he certainly has been entrusted with the ability to do so. What he is doing is disloyal and he is making a poor example for those he himself commands. He has voluntarily given up his civil rights to unquestionably serve at the pleasure of the President of the United States and taken an oath to obey. Clearly he is incapable of command and must be removed. Beyond his vote, it is specifically not his responsibility to require accountability from his seniors, again, especially his elected political leaders. I am ashamed of the Marine Corps that this man could reach the rank of O-5 and not have the discipline to perform his duty.

A major contributory factor in Afghanistan and Iraq being the sh1tshows that they were, was a lack of senior officers speaking truth to power.

You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to disagree.

GAGuy

29th Aug 2021, 01:59

When I was in the military it was beaten into me that you never criticized the political leadership. Once you put on the uniform you were there to obey all legal orders. Dissenters had two honorable choices: drive a POV up the chain of command and/or leave the military and then have at it. This is because civilian control of the military is the foundation of western democracy. Are there stupid politicians? Yes. The military chain of command is IMO little better. But let's remember the oath we took and the principles that stand behind it.

Shackeng

29th Aug 2021, 07:34

Easy Street

29th Aug 2021, 09:16

'Civilian control of the military' is incidental to this argument. Any civilian posting criticism of their employer's senior executives and/or company strategy on social media could easily find themselves on the wrong end of an internal disciplinary process and potentially be dismissed for bringing the firm into disrepute.

FWIW I think he was extremely unwise to speak out in this way. He is far, far too low down the food chain to make any kind of difference: 3* resignations can easily be glossed over, potentially even 4* if the politicians are prepared to play dirty. There are many public calls for accountability already being made and one lowly O-5 is not going to make a scrap of difference to that debate. And holding the moral high ground won't pay the bills.

Better to have resigned from the service with a polite but hard-hitting private letter explaining loss of confidence in the chain of command. VIP egos are such that attacking them in public invites a counter-attack which sweeps away the complaint as well as the complainer. Pricking VIP consciences in private might have a low probability of success but at least it's above zero.

Wirbelsturm

29th Aug 2021, 10:07

And here in lies the difference between some perceptions of the US military system and other perceptions.

In the UK it is a requirement of an officer to ensure that the orders he or she has been given are just and legal. If the officer decides that enough ambiguity exists it is their right to challenge their superiors for justification of the order.

The 'I was just following orders' excuse went out with the Nuremburg Trails I'm afraid.

This guy had the balls to call into question the decisions of those at the top, political and military, and has been made the scapegoat by those protecting their own elevated positions and mistakes. I would be surprised if he did not know that posting to a public platform would get him into hot water. Perhaps his intention was to get this out into the forum of public debate whilst being fully aware of what it was going to cost. Personally, as an 18 year serving veteran myself, we need more of these people to expose those that supress such shortcomings in the system.

AIMVHO of course.

highflyer40

29th Aug 2021, 10:49

“bring your entire service into disrepute”
Huh?
On what basis do you draw that conclusion?

This officer did not get to his rank without knowing the rules or the undoubted outcome of his public plea for accountability. Whether you agree with him or not is irrelevant. How many of us would sacrifice our careers (and pensions) to ensure that an issue about which we felt so strongly required public debate?
I only hope his pleas are not in vain, but experience suggests otherwise.

Oh course they will be in vain. This will be forgotten by Monday. That said he may have had a point, but he knew he was committing career suicide. The best way for him to have done this was resign and then speak out. Or better yet stick it out another few years and get to the rank to actually be able to make positive changes. But in reality he probably already knew he had gone as far as was ever going to go.

All he has done is make it seem acceptable by all those junior ranks to speak out, criticise, and generally whinge on social media about their senior NCO’s and officers they don’t agree with or don’t like they way they are treated.

You can’t have it both ways. He was ok because his message was so important and valid, but Private so and so moaning about Captain Cloggs being a moron wasn’t. But then if Captain Cloggs really is a moron, then does that make his social media rant ok? And who do we get to judge whether Captain Cloggs is an idiot? Convene a panel, or just a show of hands?

Just This Once...

29th Aug 2021, 10:49

Thankfully my commission was commanded by Her Majesty and not a politician.

As I see leadership and command as two distinct elements (and trust that the promotion boards do actually ensure that at least a few candidates have both elements correctly intertwined) I am content with both sides of this. The man is 'free' to speak-out on such a major issue that directly impacts his men and that commanders are free to remove a subordinate's command status as they see fit. The system appears to work and work well for militaries that exist to support a democracy and its people.

Discipline does not equal blind obedience; subordinates get to evaluate the lawfulness and proportionality of all orders and judges can act as the ultimate arbitrators. Nobody said juggling the ever-conflicting requirements of orders, war-fighting, leadership and command was easy, especially when killing is involved. I've been in the dock twice to be judged by civilians over my military actions. It is scary to be under such scrutiny and the stress is immense (especially as the MoD abandons you, you know... just in case) but the court process is done with understanding and grace. Given what we do (or did for some of us) I have no difficulty with the post-Nuremberg position.

Easy Street

29th Aug 2021, 10:58

I don't see how the Nuremberg defence is at all relevant here. Orders can be stupid or unwise, in the opinion of those receiving them, but still legal. What about the decision to withdraw or its implementation do you think might have been illegal? When POTUS, directly accountable to the US electorate, decides that the American people have had enough of the conflict and orders a full withdrawal, do officers way down the food chain get to resist? Of course they don't. The risk of people dying during the withdrawal isn't a valid reason not to withdraw.

If you're talking about the conduct of senior people at earlier stages of the campaign, consciously presenting unduly optimistic assessments and suppressing negative indicators, then I agree that there may be a case to answer (and I hope there will be) but the moment for orders to be challenged was back when the 'surge' was being proposed. Much too late for that now.

Thud105

29th Aug 2021, 11:00

"It means Command and Obey," A few Nazis tried that as a defence at Nuremberg. Didn't work then, doesn't work now.

henra

29th Aug 2021, 11:02

In the UK it is a requirement of an officer to ensure that the orders he or she has been given are just and legal. If the officer decides that enough ambiguity exists it is their right to challenge their superiors for justification of the order.

German Military is the same as UK. No blind obedience.

Chugalug2

29th Aug 2021, 13:21

Having watched Lt Col Scheller's YouTube video I don't understand why some members are talking about obeying, or not, illegal orders. His complaint rather seems to be about incompetence and gross negligence at the top of his command chain and beyond, and of his demanding accountability for that. Others have said his gesture is pointless and will do no good, either for him or for his Service, and that he should have just kept sitting on his hands. That of course is the default hope of all who are found wanting at the top of the tree (our own Foreign Secretary is hoping that all such criticism aimed at him in the papers will end up on the chip counters very soon, if not there already).

It is never a question of doing 'good' (whatever that means), it is a question of right and wrong. It is for history to decide if going in was right, of what was done once we were there was right, and of the manner of leaving now. I suspect that the Lt Col knows rather more about that than I do, and has decided to fall on his sword in order to have his say. I'd hazard that history will endorse much of what he has to say. I for one respect him for doing so. As for demoralising those below him, I imagine that many of them agree with him, and feel he is speaking out on their behalf. He says many have already expressed similar ideas on social media, though I suspect that is as verboten as in the UK, and they too will soon be having their collars felt.

The incompetence and ineptitude of UK Victorian VSOs during the Crimean War was revealed by the Thunderer, and Army reforms followed as a result. If his Court Martial produces a similar outcome then his speaking out will not have been in vain. It certainly worked for Billy Mitchell!

TheWestCoast

29th Aug 2021, 13:38

A cynic might suggest this was an audition for a well remunerated gig with Fox News.

Blackfriar

29th Aug 2021, 14:08

"US Marines officer relieved of duties after video seeking ‘accountability’ over Afghanistan"

I take offense with military officers whom take it upon themselves to publicly criticize those appointed over them. Especially their elected leaders. It's not courage to do so. It's lack of emotional control, therefor lack of command ability. This same man has undoubtedly prosecuted, via the UCMJ, others under him for similar offense. If not, he certainly has been entrusted with the ability to do so. What he is doing is disloyal and he is making a poor example for those he himself commands. He has voluntarily given up his civil rights to unquestionably serve at the pleasure of the President of the United States and taken an oath to obey. Clearly he is incapable of command and must be removed. Beyond his vote, it is specifically not his responsibility to require accountability from his seniors, again, especially his elected political leaders. I am ashamed of the Marine Corps that this man could reach the rank of O-5 and not have the discipline to perform his duty.
But the Nuremburg trials showed that "I was only following orders" is not a defence. Sleepy Joe is not ordering death camps but there must be a time when the troops have to say no.

downsizer

29th Aug 2021, 14:36

Would the LTC be happy to be publicly castigated by one of his Cpls? When you work out the answer I think we can work out why he was removed from his position.

SASless

29th Aug 2021, 14:47

The guy himself said his superiors were correct in removing him. following his public criticism.....so lets put an end to this line of discussion.

What should be debated is his statement that calls for Senior Military Leadership to come forth and explain how all this came to be and why it happened the way it did......and most importantly what their personal and direct involvement in the process was and what their input had been and whether that input had any effect on the decision(s) that led to this debacle.

There is no legitimate argument that can suggest this is anything but a disaster.

We know no one is going to wind up carrying the can on this.....the families shall bury their dead...mourn their loss....and Medals and promotions shall surely follow as those culpable individuals shall cover their tracks and brag upon how great a success it has been.

Think not.....look back at Benghazi and how that all turned out.

Just as then....the President is headed to Dover to show his respect to those that were killed......and just as during the Benghazi affair....he should be hiding in shame instead of making a PR spectacle out of what should be a very solemn and respectful and DISCRETE event.

SASless

29th Aug 2021, 14:58

German Military is the same as UK. No blind obedience.

This is not about an Officer refusing an Order.

This is all about an Officer speaking out about what he considers incompetence and culpability of his Seniors in the Chain of Command failing to do "right".

He very well may have been culpable himself of violating the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) by saying what he did and for sure the way he did it.

Article 89 of the UCMJ applies....but the burden of proof in this event would be very difficult considering the circumstances and actual wording of the Officers Statement.

However, I doubt the Marine Corps would rather handle this administratively and avoid the risk of opening a much bigger bucket of worms by allowing for a good Defense Counsel digging into the documentation behind the events.

As Mods prefer we not post Links which add to their burden.....I would suggest some browsing for articles and related information re UCMJ Article 89 might prove informative.

ORAC

29th Aug 2021, 15:03

Senior military, like senior civil servants, aren’t allowed personal views - at least not until they retire or are fired. For reasons explained by Sir Humphrey Appleby.

He may have been right in what he said, but he was wrong to say it - which he himself accepts, as well as the inevitable disciplinary action which would be taken.

https://youtu.be/GPsHfVCFLhU

Haraka

29th Aug 2021, 16:48

Eg The recent "incident" with the Rocks at Honington....?
Metaphorically not even time to choose which oncoming bus lower suspension to view I suspect.

Easy Street

29th Aug 2021, 20:10

But the Nuremburg trials showed that "I was only following orders" is not a defence. Sleepy Joe is not ordering death camps but there must be a time when the troops have to say no.

Sleepy Joe: "End this war by 31 August so we don't get back into a shooting war with the Taliban."

Generals: "No, sorry, we left the withdrawal planning too late (even though we've had a year to prepare) and it's a bit risky to do it now, so we're just going to stay and let the ANDSF keep doing all the dying. Don't believe those reports from dissenting analysts and SIGAR about corruption, the unsustainability of the ANDSF, the near-total Taliban control of rural areas, and the refusal of either Afghan party to agree terms: those guys have been saying that stuff for 15 years, they're so naive about DC and politics and foreign policy, they don't get it. Just ignore them like we all do."

Would you be OK with that? Ironically that's pretty much what seems to have happened, except that Sleepy Joe called the generals' bluff:

Sleepy Joe: "What part of 'end this war by 31 August' do you guys still not understand?"

Generals: (Oh, ****, he's serious) "Ermm, here's a really crappy withdrawal plan that we've just made up, we could do this if you really want but it'd be much better if you send x thousand more troops and extend the deadline so we can do it better; the Taliban aren't anywhere near in a position to enforce their end of the Doha deal." (Fingers crossed...)

Sleepy Joe: "I've been very clear: just get us out, already. SecDef knows a thing or two about the CENTCOM AOR, or at least he should, so I'm going on holiday. Bye."

Generals: F*ck.

There's a need for accountability here, for sure, but it ain't with Sleepy Joe.

langleybaston

29th Aug 2021, 22:08

tdracer

29th Aug 2021, 22:43

June 23, at budget request hearing, Austin was asked about saving Bagram but Milley needed to insert himself to say this. "Bagram is not necessary, tactically or operationally for what we are going to try to do here with Afghanistan".

Biden owns this, but so do the top military brass... They haven't even admitted that they were wrong :ugh:
But they were quick to can the guy who pointed it out.

Easy Street

29th Aug 2021, 22:49

I thought it said "the buck stops here". But that was several Presidents ago.

The idea that POTUS is not accountable for the actions and decisions of his armed forces {Commander in Chief] is, putting it mildly, troubling..

POTUS isn't accountable for the misconduct of senior officials working on Afghanistan policy under previous administrations (https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/). He is, however, accountable to the electorate for delivering on his promise of ending US involvement. When that same class of officials then offers POTUS the Hobson's choice of a poorly planned withdrawal or the resumption of hostilities with the Taliban, the buck does indeed stop with him. But the only people who get to make that accounting call are the voters: certainly not the officials responsible for the poor plan or years of misconduct. In the meantime, POTUS is perfectly entitled to hold his officials accountable for their professional failures, just as any other commander is entitled to do with their subordinates. If it were otherwise, officials could always control policy by failing to plan in accordance with political direction and presenting their favoured option as a fait accompli. That's not democracy.

Airbubba

30th Aug 2021, 01:31

“I’m resigning my commission as a United States Marine, effective now … [and] I am forfeiting my retirement, all entitlements. I don’t want a single dollar.”

Looks like the Ruy Lopez on the chessboard.

MARINE CORPS (https://www.stripes.com/branches/marine_corps/)Viral Marine who demanded ‘accountability' for Afghanistan failures: ‘I’m resigning my commission’BY CHAD GARLAND
• STARS AND STRIPES • AUGUST 29, 2021

A Marine officer who filmed a viral video calling out senior military and civilian leaders (https://www.facebook.com/stuart.scheller/videos/561114034931173/?t=0) for failures in Afghanistan resigned his commission “effective immediately” in a new 10-minute video Sunday and threatened to “bring the whole [expletive] system down.”

Lt. Col. Stu Scheller was dismissed Friday from command of the Advanced Infantry Training Battalion at Camp Lejeune, N.C., over the original video. In the new one, he claims he is not currently under investigation and that he likely would be allowed to ride out his remaining three years until retirement if he chose to stay silent.

“I don’t think that’s the path I’m on,” he says in the video, shot inside an “abandoned school bus” in eastern North Carolina. “I’m resigning my commission as a United States Marine, effective now … [and] I am forfeiting my retirement, all entitlements. I don’t want a single dollar.”
https://media-exp1.licdn.com/dms/image/C4D05AQE90Cn5ec8w8A/feedshare-thumbnail_720_1280/0/1630253789131?e=1630350000&v=beta&t=ywO6k-u7_o8dR8ZAEEgpe70HMunkNzzXBC4gdSY9tv4 (https://www.linkedin.com/posts/stuart-scheller-589062139_activity-6837780100155506688-293m)

He then suggests that senior military leaders would need the money for jobs and security after what he intends to do, though he does not provide further details.

“The Marine Corps is taking appropriate action to ensure the safety and well-being of LtCol Scheller and his family,” said service spokesman Capt. Sam Stephenson in an emailed statement. “As this is a developing situation, we cannot comment further at this time.”

In his original video, posted on social media hours after a blast in Kabul killed 13 U.S. troops, Scheller appeared in uniform and criticized the Marine Corps commandant, defense secretary and other senior defense officials.

That nearly 5-minute clip had been viewed about 1 million times on Facebook and LinkedIn combined as of Sunday and touched a nerve within the military and veterans community.

Some have praised his courage to challenge the brass at the risk of his career, and others criticized him for grandstanding or sowing dissent.

“Blatantly using rank does cross a line,” said Jim Golby, a 20-year Army veteran and adjunct senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security who focuses on civil-military relations. A battalion commander “just doesn’t have all the info that senior military (or civilian) leaders do.”

Golby hoped someone would convince Scheller to seek mental health treatment and “get out of the spotlight quickly,” he said. “I find it very sad and misguided.”It’s not clear what new consequences he could face, but Golby said the Corps will need to be careful not to cement him as a “martyr” among those who would use him divisively.

He’s been celebrated by some on the right “to further demonize my husband and justify the vitriol he endured,” Rachel Vindman, wife of retired Army Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, said in a tweet Sunday.

Alexander Vindman is a former Ukraine expert for the National Security Council who testified in President Donald Trump’s first impeachment case.

Scheller did not immediately respond to an inquiry asking for clarification of his plans.

Marine spokesman Maj. Jim Stenger said Friday that social media is not the place to air disagreements with the chain of command, saying it was “an emotional time for a lot of Marines” who should seek counseling or talk to their comrades.

Eleven Marines, a soldier and a Navy corpsman were killed in the attack on Kabul’s airport Thursday, which was claimed by the Islamic State group. Over 160 Afghans were killed, two officials told The Associated Press on Friday. Scores of others were wounded, along with at least 18 U.S. troops.

Scheller had a personal relationship with one of the slain Marines, he said Thursday, though he did not say who because next of kin of the fallen had not yet all been notified.

In his new video, he tells those offering to send him money to instead give to the families of the fallen. He thanks both his supporters and critics but singles out a remark by retired Marine Col. Thomas K. Hobbs, who he said he knew personally and loved like a father.

“If Scheller was truly honorable, he would have resigned his commission in protest after stating what he did,” Hobbs wrote in a comment on one of Scheller’s LinkedIn posts.

Scheller repeatedly quotes from that remark, protesting that he is honorable and announcing his resignation in response to it. The video does not appear to be a resignation in a formal sense, though he says he plans to follow whatever the service’s legal requirements are.

But he also says that if senior leaders would have simply said “yes, mistakes were made” in Afghanistan, he would have gone back to “rank-and-file” and given up his quest. He believes such an admission would help those struggling with PTSD and other issues more than any other message, he said.

Praising the ordinary grunts who “go outside the wire, get blown up, bring their Marine back and then go back out there the next day,” Scheller says “they deserve accountability.”

While some of his critics have suggested he’s positioning himself for a political career, he’s vague about his plans. But he suggests he may need backing from “rich philanthropists” and “blue collar” workers.

“Follow me, and we will bring the whole [expletive] system down,” he says. “We’re just getting started.”

Viral Marine who demanded ‘accountability' for Afghanistan failures: ‘I’m resigning my commission’ | Stars and Stripes (https://www.stripes.com/branches/marine_corps/2021-08-29/scheller-marine-demand-accountability-resigns-commission-2708816.html)

SASless

30th Aug 2021, 01:38

Some history we might think about...

Marine Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller was fired from his job as commander of a training battalion a day after he posted a short video to Facebook where he demanded accountability from senior military leaders on the botched Afghanistan withdrawal. A few years ago Army Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman was protected and celebrated for doing the a similar thing.

Vindman compromised classified information in his scheme that pandered to the worst natures of partisan politicians that ultimately resulted in a failed Impeachment of a sitting President.

Vindman was fired from his position at the White House National Security Staff and was promoted to Colonel...which he declined and instead retired as a LtCol.

Assessing the damage caused by Scheller's conduct as compared to Vindman's in order to determine a path forward would be a daunting task if all of the collateral damage was included.

Scheller begins to look like a Choir Boy in Robes compared to Vindman misconduct.

Q-SKI

30th Aug 2021, 04:24

So where is your moral compass, the phrase “I was only following orders” springs to mind , I’m sure I’d have got further in military service if I hadn’t stood up to questionable decisions made by senior officers in my command chain. Don’t be a drone and learn some humanity.

Q-SKI

30th Aug 2021, 04:31

Don’t forget where the phrase “semper fi “ originated from, know your history to avoid making the same mistakes over and over again

SASless

30th Aug 2021, 05:50

At any cost?

You sure got that one right....and the Tab grows daily!

Chugalug2

30th Aug 2021, 10:50

It seems he hasn't resigned (presumably he could only do that if so invited). Stars & Stripes story 29/08/2021 :-

The video does not appear to be a resignation in a formal sense, though he says he plans to follow whatever the service’s legal requirements are.

The 'legal requirements' cover a multitude of sins of course, leading if so ordered to the convening of a Court Martial, subject of course to the Exigencies of the Service.

Scape Goat, Martyr? You pays your money and makes your choice.

sandiego89

30th Aug 2021, 13:20

A cynic might suggest this was an audition for a well remunerated gig with Fox News.

Agree, I think we will see more of him, as he seems to have the characteristics of a Sean Hannity "special guest" and now with his public "resignation" he can go full speed into politics.

langleybaston

30th Aug 2021, 15:21

Don’t forget where the phrase “semper fi “ originated from, know your history to avoid making the same mistakes over and over again

Honest question from a Brit civilian.

How do you pronounce the fi bit?

fee, or fie, or what?

Only ever heard the full Latin version, although I do know about the Marines' connection.

fitliker

30th Aug 2021, 17:10

For if Men are to be precluded from offering their sentiments on a matter , which may involve the most serious and alarming consequences that can invite the consideration of mankind . Reason is of no use to us . The freedom of speech may be taken away , and , dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep , to the slaughter .
George Washington speech to the Army 1783

langleybaston

30th Aug 2021, 17:49

Fie. rimes with Die.

I know, 'Mericans are dummies....

Thank you.

And no, they are not. A friend to have in an uncertain world.

SASless

30th Aug 2021, 19:10

XX.....did you serve in he Military....ever?

Lonewolf_50

30th Aug 2021, 20:35

XX.....did you serve in he Military....ever? From post 22 we find this (https://www.pprune.org/showthread.php?p=11102806):
Well, thank you for your kind words. I am new here, as the display says. I mean no harm.

For the cabal, I am a former Marine. Not a combat “peripheral” support troop pouge, MOS 2531. Radio Mule with a rifle. Not a wing wiper aviation guarantee pee-pee, but Infantry Line Company under a mustang'r E-8 come O-3 wild-ass mean SOB lunatic Co. Commander of India 3/1, 1968, who would just as soon knock you on your butt as look at you, and regularly did just that to elaborate on who's nuts were bigger. You didn't move fast enough when I spoke so your lip is now fat. Little talk, all walk. Probably retarded. I have mixed feelings to this day, but I breath....so... Which I think makes XXmet of about your vintage in 'Nam, roughly.

Comment on the LTC in question. (I am retired O-5, Navy not Marine).
He was commissioned in 2004, at which time we'd been at war just about three years in Afghanistan and 1 in Iraq. My guess is he's deployed once to each. Maybe more than once. The number of cluster humps that crop up now and again in each theater are things within his experience.
Note: we have been doing war, and war-like stuff, in Afghanistan for longer then he's been serving. The current serving members who came in as I was doing my last tour and then leaving, and those who came in after that, have had the "opportunity" to go to at least two garden spots: Iraq and Afghanistan, and many of them have gone multiple times.

My read on his complaints vis a vis senior leadership: he's been around long enough, and got command. That means to me that he went to the months long Command and Staff school, either with the Marines or at Navy, Army, or Air Force Command and Staff .. With that in mind he'd be very familiar with the failures in leadership on high (in Viet Nam) that McMaster wrote about in Dereliction of Duty. And with some of the high level bad choices made in Iraq. Those are not being hidden, they are common currency.

I think he's aiming his public critique at those with stars, and above, and their staffs, and the State Department.
The entire planning process (strategic and theater level both) left the military operators in Afghanistan at the field level with a heck of a turd to try and polish, with the usual consequences: dead Marines because the higher ups dropped the ball on (in this case) how to do a phased withdrawal.
(Easy Street's hypothetical conversations ring a bell)

Should he have done this while he was the CO?
That's a hard call.
Every so often, as a commissioned officer, you run into a situation where you have a judgment call to make - do I bet my stripes on this? Do I stand up to the chain of command and call BS? I did it a few times but I didn't to it in the press: I went up the chain of command with my "why this is wrong" stuff. Didn't always go well. Once or twice it was appreciated, in the longer term.

He felt he was in such a situation - and I think those feelings were grounded in his loyalty to The Marines, writ large.
(IIRC, his current command position is a training unit; this critique might have a whole different tone if he was currently the CO of a rifle battalion).

For XXmet: I think I parse your position as "if you have issues with orders and command, run them up the chain of command via the correct procedures; you are an officer, you are supposed to know how to do that."
That's a valid take.
A couple of years ago a Navy Carrier CO got a lot of press when he went off script about how COVID was impacting the readiness of his ship. A different case of "Is this the bet your stripes moment?"
But I think it's in the same general family of "I see something wrong, what do I do about it?"
If this guy is willing to resign his commission over principle, or something along those lines, I hope he got his wife's support before he did this. She's got a stake in their future (IIRC, he has family).
FWIW: my dad was Signal Corps, Army, in the 1940's.

I don't know what the young Marines in his command think of this, but I am sure about one thing: they are watching and they are paying attention to what happens next. What are the consequences of him doing this? They'll pay attention to that as well.

SASless

30th Aug 2021, 20:55

Lone,

It would also be in the same general area that I started my first tour in....we had adjacent AO's....and on occasions we worked out of An Hoa and flew some support missions for the Marines or do Medevac's for them when needed

A quick search came up a Battalion history for 1965-1969.
.

Lonewolf_50

30th Aug 2021, 21:01

As an aside, SAS, glad to see you back participating with us.
Missed you while you were gone. :)

Hydromet

31st Aug 2021, 02:31

I'm of two minds on this. I believe he's acted with honest intentions. He believes he saw serious wrongs; presumably, he'd tried unsuccessfully to take them up the chain of command and believed he had no option. On the other hand, he could, presumably, have retired and then gone public. My gut feeling is that he should have done that. It's not for members of the military to push a barrow, no matter how justified, in the public press. Having said that, I can think of several recent exceptions here.

Since we're talking of Vietnam in passing. A mate of mine (National Serviceman) was kept there long after his tour because he'd been a witness to a fragging and was required for investigations which could have just as easily been carried out in Australia. Eventually, his wife wrote to the press; for him to do so would have been illegal. He was carpeted and asked "If you didn't like the way your company treated you in civilian life, would you write to the papers?" to which he replied "No, I'd tell them to shove their job up their arse."

Maybe that's what the LtCol should have done.

Mk 1

31st Aug 2021, 05:53

Easy Street

31st Aug 2021, 07:31

Interesting reading the messages above. The vast majority are obviously in agreement that the withdrawal was handled badly. How was the withdrawal poorly handled and what would you have done differently?

Failing to issue visas in advance is the worst single aspect, to my mind, although doing so might have precipitated an earlier crisis as the holders fled. Most will probably alight on the decision to abandon Bagram, but getting 100,000 evacuees there without losing any to IS-K attacks enroute would have been non-trivial. At the root, I think both of those issues stemmed from the failure to understand how fragile was the former government's grip on power and how quickly it would fall once it became clear the US was definitely leaving. I can only imagine that there was an assumption that the ANDSF would be able to protect HKIA while US troops withdrew by 31 August, and would continue to do so thereafter so that US civilians and eligible Afghans could continue to leave over several months. Those failures of analysis and understanding need to be examined in case there's a systemic issue.

However, I tend to agree with Prof Patrick Porter that much criticism of the withdrawal is a fig leaf for those who disagreed with it on principle or want to deflect from earlier failures:Rough statecraft (https://thecritic.co.uk/rough-statecraft/)
The incompetence of departure deserves inquest. But it should not serve to deflect from the need to withdraw, nor obfuscate the true choice. The plausible alternative to leaving was not a stable exit followed by “muddling through” cheaply until somehow things got better. It was a futile war that would likely have intensified. This point escapes “Stayers”, outspoken former officials (https://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2021/08/16/lead-hr-mcmaster.cnn), security elites (https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-trump-petraeus-taliban-afghanistan-withdrawal-war-nation-building-jihadist-terrorist-11629488184), commentators (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/liberal-democracy-worth-fight/619833/) and allies (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tony-blair-attacks-joe-bidens-imbecilic-afghanistan-retreat-as-kabul-chaos-deepens-jw782ghxr) who oppose withdrawal, who historically misjudged (https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-hubris-afghanistan-humiliation/2021/08/14/47fb025a-fc67-11eb-9c0e-97e29906a970_story.html) Afghanistan and support protracted interventions in the Middle East. Their narrow fixation on withdrawal and its execution, as though it were the primary error, deflects from their own complicity in profound failure, in Afghanistan and beyond (https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09636412.2021.1885727)

Tinribs

31st Aug 2021, 11:59

The need to withdraw had been agreed some time before and so appropriate plans should have been made seems they were not
The method appears to have been effective within the limits posed by the situation
The ability to deal with missile attack so late in the process is to be admired but I suppose that was the expectation
Looking at what we leave behind seems to indicate we failed to induce the Taliban to become a government rather than a rebel force
As usual revolution impels splits amongst the various rebel groups

TheWestCoast

31st Aug 2021, 15:23

There's more from him here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj4RHa0G1Bk

GlobalNav

31st Aug 2021, 18:39

American military officers are to be pubilically non-political. They may vote and write letters to their congressman as a private citizen, if they like, just don’t bring their military position into it.

This major did no real service to any cause by asking for accountability of senior leaders. I don’t necessarily disagree with his points, but they are not for public expression by an American military officer. He got something off his chest, that’s all and if he is dismissed from service or resigns, it’s an appropriate outcome.

If he wants to be the next Ollie North, as a civilian, fine. One is too many, though, in my opinion.

finestkind

1st Sep 2021, 09:06

XXmet

In general I agree with the principal of your post. But there are many holes of how you have presented it. We are far beyond the Pappy" Boyington” style of leadership where you brawled with any man that did not jump to your orders.

“Military get the enemy” if only it was that simple. As you well know with Vietnam who, what, where, was your enemy and like Afghanistan the added “win the hearts and minds” just further muddied exactly who the enemy was.

To imply that “am telling you is that doing this weakens our combat soldiers. Maybe that's one reason they are blowing their friggen brains out in record numbers when they come home.” Military personnel are committing suicide because of an officer that is not loyal is rubbish and sullies the memory of these people and what has driven them to do this. It also disparages those men and women of the police, firefighters, ambo’s that have been unable to handle the traumatic events they have been in and succumbed to the pressure.

The world has moved on to what society was in WW1, WW11, Korea, Vietnam, and does not endorse leadership style of unquestioning loyalty. Just as you see Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller as a poor working cog in the machine the machine, if it still works as it did 50 years ago, is dated.

212man

1st Sep 2021, 11:21

This major did no real service to any cause by asking for accountability of senior leaders. I don’t necessarily disagree with his points, but they are not for public expression by an American military officer. He got something off his chest, that’s all and if he is dismissed from service or resigns, it’s an appropriate outcome.

Has he been demoted already? Last I saw he was a Lt. Col........

SASless

1st Sep 2021, 11:36

212man.....he shall not be demoted.....he shall be disharged....sans pension,. He will overnight go from LtCol of Marines to Civilian....no job, no retirement, no health insurance....nothing but the reputation of having done what he did.

Unless....and that is an infinitively small chance....the powers that he called to take responsibility decide to chastise him for how he said what he said and merely write him a Letter of Reprimand that ensures he remains a LtCol till he retires in three years.

Absolutely his career is at an end....the manner of its ending has not been decided yet.,,or at least has not been announced.

Lonewolf_50

1st Sep 2021, 14:00

212man.....he shall not be demoted.....he shall be disharged....sans pension,. (... snip a bit...)
Absolutely his career is at an end....the manner of its ending has not been decided yet.,,or at least has not been announced. Commissioned officers, as the old saying goes, "serve at the pleasure of the President." (Technically true as the military is part of the executive branch of government). If he has in fact offered his resignation, it will still take some months for that process to run its course. If he has not offered his letter of resignation yet, and has been relieved of command, the USMC has an LTC at large eligible for a few postings (temporary jobs that are not desirable) until his disposition is finalized.

If, on the other hand, he is formally charged with a UCMJ violation, that proceeding might take a long time.
IIRC, a rarely used form of discipline for officers was Admiral's Mast in the Navy - I am pretty sure that the Marines have a similar Article 15 process as an option by the general officer who holds court martial authority for that command. His chain of command has resort to (beyond relief for cause, a standard cause these days being "loss of confidence" ) some disciplinary measures if they believe that he engaged in conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline. Keeping an eye open for that.
For officers accused of misconduct
If the officer imposing punishment holds General Court Martial (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courts-martial_in_the_United_States#General_Court-Martial) authority, or if the commanding officer is of the grade O-7 or greater

Arrest in quarters: not more than 30 days
Restriction to limits: not more than 60 days
Forfeiture of pay: not more than ½ of one month's base pay for two months (base pay does not include allowances or special pay)
Admonition or reprimand

By Commanding Officers of the grades O-4 to O-6

Restriction to limits: not more than 30 days
Admonition or reprimand

Airbubba

1st Sep 2021, 14:52

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1080x1438/scheller_resignation_3_large__a43e8efb013c5bbe894c85716fbbeb 09afb08fb4.jpg

Bob Viking

1st Sep 2021, 14:59

Do you think it would be prudent to place the guy on suicide watch?!

He has gone pretty nuclear.

BV

charliegolf

1st Sep 2021, 15:23

Do you think it would be prudent to place the guy on suicide watch?!

He has gone pretty nuclear.

BV

Bob, are you worried he might go 'full-Epstein' suicidal?:E

CG

clareprop

1st Sep 2021, 15:54

To answer the original question, 'What has he achieved'.

From what I can see, nothing...unless of course he will use the brew-ha-ha to take on some sort of political career.

Bob Viking

1st Sep 2021, 17:10

I’m worried that he is throwing away all of his life’s work and future financial security on a hissy fit.

Unless he knows he has a winning lottery ticket or similar windfall coming he seems awfully keen to throw away his meal ticket.

Maybe there are other things going on in his private life.

I obviously don’t know any of the facts but his behaviour is worrying.

BV

Lonewolf_50

1st Sep 2021, 20:38

I’m worried that he is throwing away all of his life’s work and future financial security on a hissy fit.
Hence my above remarks elsewhere on "did you talk to your wife about this first?"

My friend, take a look at paragraph 3. That's some seriously loaded language.
""A lack of trust and confidence in your ability to lead"" is being directed at SecNav.

This is his decision to make, not yours or mine.

Not sure it's the best way to do this, but I have an idea that this LTC may become the new Specialist Michael New.
I have, in my own cynical view on life, a suspicion that a variety of political sorts will use his personal protest for their own political ends just as the "we are not here to serve the UN, we are here to serve the US" line was taken by certain political cadre in the early 90's when the nation building efforts of the Clinton Administration was being argued about after the Somalia mess.

Lonewolf_50

1st Sep 2021, 22:53

Just got this from a retired Marine friend: looks like he is going All In, to put it in poker terms.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/500x1082/scheller_68c35fbeb0bedfd0ccda39ffcddf1de255b47bfc.jpg
I am now believing that there's more to this than one guy with a facebork account: I suspect he already has some political backers.
So did Michael New.

Grumpy retiree

2nd Sep 2021, 05:24

I have never served and not sure about whether or not to comment.
Joe public looking from the outside.
But I have read a lot of history.
One thing is quite clear. The military is only useful if its Commanders are confident that when the time comes Senior Officers will follow orders. Period
History is littered with examples of incompetent political leadership leading the military into impossible situations.
But Battalion level Officers are not policy makers. Follow the chain of Command. Or you are on a hiding to nothing.
I would recommend Alan Brookes diaries on WW2 to anyone who thinks this hasn’t happened before.
What is equally clear to me as an Australian who remembers our shameful behaviour after the Vietnam war is respect your veterans.
We put them in harms way.
Hold them close and never let what happened after 1975 happen again.
Semper Fi.

West Coast

2nd Sep 2021, 05:25

I’ll look forward to reading his forthcoming (my assumption) tell all book.

NYT best seller if he gets it out before everyone forgets who he is.

finestkind

2nd Sep 2021, 06:22

No excuse for Disloyalty.

!

Thankyou COL Jessep.

Lonewolf_50

2nd Sep 2021, 21:01

LTC Stupid is just that, stupid. If it turns out that he had a breakdown, maybe they will give him a medical. Otherwise. SEE YA!
Did you see the post attachment that included his letter of resignation? (Airbubba posted it)
Not seeing a Section 8 in his future. And he appears to be heading out the door depending on how the chain of command reacts to this.

@WestCoast: Not gonna bet against you. Nope. :ok:

XXmet

4th Sep 2021, 11:35

During Vietnam the Army decided to use a powerful gunpowder not suited for 5.56 ammunition in the M16 rifle against the manufacturer's emphatic warnings not too. The brass cartridge would expand too much and seize inside the rifle's chamber, jamming the rifle. In the field, the problem became apparent immediately, so the Army began quietly correcting it, albeit after already shipping tons of the faulty ammunition to Vietnam with the new M16 rifles meant to replace the M14 rifle.

Strangely, the Marine Colonels and Generals did nothing. They just chastised Marine grunts for “not cleaning their rifles enough”. Stranger still, because even though there was supposed to be a cleaning rod and kit inside the butt of the M16, only one in four had one. Hundreds of Marines died because of this. Entire companies were decimated in firefights with the communists circa 1966/67/68. Dozens of Marines were found dead with a cleaning rod in the barrel of their rifles trying to knock out the jammed spent cartridge, shot by the enemy. A torrent of letters from troops in Vietnam, and, from families at home, begging for help reached Washington. Marine command specifically doubled down on their stupid lack of “cleaning” excuse.

Missouri Congressman Richard Howard Ichord Jr., formed an investigative committee to find the facts. The story was published by Atlantic magazine in1981.

Atlantic Magazine article 1981-M-16: A Bureaucratic Horror Story, By James Fallows
So I fully understand this LT Colonel's concerns. There is precedent.

Unfortunately he decided to take the political partisan rout, saying; “every generation needs a revolution”. This is a common partisan media mantra along the lines of the January 6th craziness in our capital building.

No, every generation DOES NOT need a revolution. The United States DOES NOT need instability. We just need our political leaders to stop the partisan craziness because it is obviously effecting our military Officer Corp!

finestkind

9th Sep 2021, 21:43

tdracer

28th Sep 2021, 22:39

Just heard on the radio that Lt. Colonel Scheller has been arrested and thrown into the brig. I don't understand - I thought he'd resigned - how can he now be thrown in the brig if he's resigned from the military?

Meanwhile, General Milley - who may well have committed treason when he had unauthorized communications with his Chinese counterpart while Trump was his Commander in Chief - just threw Biden under the bus with his congressional testimony today.

Just when I think my confidence in our leaders couldn't get any lower...:yuk:

rattman

28th Sep 2021, 23:24

Airbubba

29th Sep 2021, 00:32

From Facebook:
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1920x447/scheller_facebook_large__9fda487de5105c1f4b76cf69d566382552a 8d381.jpg

Fear cannot exist in the pursuit of love and truth. I believe in love. I believe in America. I believe in strength. I believe in honesty. I believe I am ready to go to jail based on these beliefs.

First you pulled the chain of retirement. I broke that chain. Then you pulled the chain of family stability. That chain also broke. All you have left is the threat of Court Martial. “It’s a felony Stu. No one wants that. It will ruin your whole life.” But you never understood me. I’m comfortable going back to Cincinnati and working at Applebees again. Do you want freedom fries with that?

“Effective immediately upon your receipt below, you are hereby ordered to refrain from posting any and all material, in any form without exception, to any social media. In this context, the term 'social media' shall be construed very broadly to include any medium by which you may share information with groups of people. It includes more traditional forms of social media (e.g., Facebook, Youtube, LinkedIn) as well nontraditional methods one might use to circumvent established social media (e.g., mass emails, group text messages, electronic bulleting boards). You are also prohibited from communicating through third parties or proxies.” What happens when you communicate an order that stipulates you to stop communicating? Remember… I have only spoken truth.

Another truth… WE don’t want our children abused in the same failed systems. The systems remain, despite their repeated failures, because key holding hypocrites have safe haven within the system. “Why not just get out and say that Stu? Why not stay quiet and work within the system?” WE say this to you… if you are making a difference on your current path… why is the Republic in decline? The Apathetic American convinces himself to apply pressure in other ways only because he can’t see the invisible chains. The keyholders refuse to take accountability when it is so obvious. They are unable or unwilling to do what is right. But WE are not like the Apathetic American. WE have faith. WE believe what you stand for can only be defined by what you’re willing to risk.

They need US scared. They need US silenced. They need US divided. Fear, division, and ignorance facilitates control. WE the people are not republican/democrat, black/white, straight/gay, christian/atheist, mask/nomask, police/community, wallstreet/mainstreet… so on and so on. We are Americans. Adjectives are not required. Don’t dim your light to walk into their darkness. Walk into their darkness and light **** up.

President Trump. I was told by everyone to kiss the ring because of your following and power. I refuse. While I respect your foreign policy positions, I hate how you divided the country. I don’t need or want your help. You do not have the ability to pull US together. You may even win the next election. But your generation’s time is running out. Tell your son to stop tweeting about me. Your whole family knows nothing about US or our sacrifices. I could never work with you. I’d rather sit in jail and be released with a dishonorable than make compromises in my beliefs.

President Obama. Great at speeches… obviously weak in any intestinal fortitude. President Bush Jr. great at speeches… obviously ignorant in thinking he could import democracy. President Clinton. Great at bringing Congress together… obviously morally bankrupt. This includes his wife.

General Mattis. The warrior monk. We all know you became a monk because you are gay. To be clear, my generation don’t care about sexuality. We are better than that. But our generation does care about honesty. You brought to my Infantry Officer Course 1-06 what can only be described as a female prop. It was uncomfortable for all of us. As soon as you left, we all knew you were a liar. We were young, but not stupid. Back then Don’t Ask Don’t Tell was still a policy. We understood why you lied. But as the policy was rescinded, and we continued to hear the rumors, it bothered us that you kept up the lie. You weren’t a monk. You were dishonest. And for all your talk about the 5-3-5 and counter-insurgency… can we go back and review the record? The academics loved you. You talked about reading books all the time. The only problem… you didn’t win any wars. Maybe you should have read different books.

General Petraeus. The counter-insurgency genius. We all know you went to Yale. We all know that you walked around the wars without PPE. But what if you used that education to offer insight on the ineffective nature of counter insurgency? You led Iraq and Afghanistan because you were such an influential leader. However, history demonstrated you didn’t have the insight of George Bush Sr. who knew when to pull out of a military campaign once the objectives were achieved. History somehow forgot George Bush Sr.’s genius. If you were half as smart as him, you would have recommended an efficient withdraw much sooner than the long wars you promoted. But that would have marginalized the theory of your genius. And without your celebrity… there are no adulterous escapades.

General Flynn. You gave interviews about me. Pretending to understand me. You are the same as the rest. You were caught in a lie. My generation is sick of your lies. We are not the same. Stop speaking my name as if you understand me. You could never understand US.

PHDs teaching at military academies. Bill Lind just wrote an article about my moral courage titled The View from Olympus: The Scheller Affair and Moral Courage. Let me be clear Mr. Lind, despite your contributions to the Marine Corps, you could never understand me. And my contempt for the academics who have attached themselves to the military machine runs deep. I will never relate to a person who refused to fight in the arena, yet feels entitled enough to offer opinions as if the lions should listen. Critics. Mr. Lind… General Berger’s opinion matters more than yours, despite your condescending opinion towards him. Please let all the PHDs in the military education system know the same. And tell General Gray to get off the MCU stage. He had his turn. Maneuver Warfare is outdated. It’s not attrition vs. maneuver. It’s decentralization vs. synchronization. And the critical question of where that balance occurs is the question you failed to address in the current version of MCDP 1. Marines all think decentralization should occur at the lowest levels despite a deeper understanding of how to maximize combat power. But I’m sure your generation of deep thinkers knew that…

To General Alford adjudicating my legal situation. When I briefed you in July you said, “We have an entire generation of LtCols who don’t know how to make decisions. They feel the need to ask permission.” Ask Tom and Sung, they were there. My generation is sick of being bullied. Maybe my generation knows a little bit more than you think. We’ve watched you play politics for 20 years. You thought we were too stupid to learn?

General Donovan, thanks for finishing my fitrep multiple months late as soon as I hit the news. Is it safe to assume you processed the report when I hit the news so that you didn’t look bad? It’s about your optics, it’s never been about US. But if your angry about me speaking the truth, send your Regimental Commander to come find me again. You could have him repeat, “If you interrupt me again, I’m going to fillet you. I will cut you in half.” “I’m going to work you like a slave. I’m going to work you like a dog. I’m going to work your dick into the dirt.” Ask Lobo… he was there for some of it.

Task and Purpose, despite your factually incorrect article about my legal right to prefer charges on General McKenzie (which still has been denied by the same people trying to hold me accountable… even after the news of the drone strike), you don’t understand me. I do plan to bring the whole system down. Yes, Task and Purpose, I am brave enough to say it again. What say you now?

What happens when all you do is speak truth and no one wants to hear it. But they can probably stop listening because… I’m crazy… right?

Col Emmel please have the MPs waiting for me at 0800 on Monday. I’m ready for jail.

VR/ US

Lonewolf_50

29th Sep 2021, 17:56

The LTC is in pre trial confinement. Article 32 investigation is proceeding.
A concise treatment (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/09/28/marine-officer-who-blasted-leaders-over-afghanistan-withdrawal-brig.html?ESRC=navy-a_210929.nl)
Details at the link are sufficient for anyone familiar with UCMJ.
No surprise, really.
(a) A lot of politicians get annoyed as hell if commissioned officers cross that line into politics, which we ain't supposed to do.
(b) Plenty of senior military take a dim view of crossing that line.
(c) Which makes me wonder: is he purposely trying to become some sort of martyr?
(Ref to Airbubba's post)
We'll see.

Lonewolf_50

29th Sep 2021, 18:04

Unless the american military is drastically different from pretty much every other military in the world you cant just resign and walk away when it suits you What we taught our junior officers who augmented from the reserves into the regulars was this little adage:
You serve at the pleasure of the president. (While strictly true, a bit of an exaggeration for anyone below flag rank)
When you put in your letter, as I did (uh, well over a decade ago) you are requesting to retire from active duty.
That request can be honored, refused, deferred, or expedited based on the Needs of the Navy.
(More generally, the Needs of the Service)
Meanwhile, General Milley - who may well have committed treason when he had unauthorized communications with his Chinese counterpart while Trump was his Commander in Chief - just threw Biden under the bus with his congressional testimony today.
I've disappointed in how the General has presented himself, and disgusted with he did in re private talks with the Chinese.
If he's answering questions to Congress and is under oath, his various remarks 'throwing President Biden under the bus' is in the line of duty.
The Marine LTC in question took it upon himself to get involved in politics in an assignment that was not in the political realm.
He says he's ready for the consequences of his actions.
Just when I think my confidence in our leaders couldn't get any lower...https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/pukey.gif
I hate to say this, but I think it gets worse before it gets better. :*

In a related note, regarding a Naval Officer / Naval Aviator speaking out and getting slammed for it,
interesting article on the CO of the Roosevelt and that COVID thing here. (http://recp.mkt81.net/ctt?m=7391724&r=Mjk3NzYzNzQxMTcS1&b=0&j=MTM0MTU3NTYxNAS2&k=NEWSLETTER&kx=1&kt=12&kd=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.military.com%2Fdaily-news%2F2021%2F09%2F22%2Fchaos-and-drama-new-report-sheds-light-what-went-wrong-aboard-navys-covid-stricken-carrier.html%3FESRC%3Dnavy-a_210929.nl)
For your consideration.

tdracer

17th Oct 2021, 00:22

Looks like the he got off relatively light:
Now, the court-martial is over, and the results are somewhat surprising. Most thought the judge, Col. Glen Hines, would throw the book at him, as covering for the failures of military leadership has become a common occurrence. Yet, Scheller was given a fairly light sentence, which included a letter of reprimand and a forfeiture of $5,000 pay over the course of a single month. Further, the judge blasted command for the pre-trial detention and for leaking records to try to make the defendant look bad.
<snip>
Scheller will now be honorably discharged and enter into civilian life, which was apparently his goal anyway, given his disgust with command.

Marine Who Was Imprisoned for Speaking Against Afghanistan Incompetence Receives Surprise Sentence – RedState (https://redstate.com/bonchie/2021/10/15/marine-who-was-imprisoned-for-speaking-against-afghanistan-incompetence-receives-surprise-sentence-n457366)

I did think throwing him in the brig was somewhat over the top.

ORAC

18th Oct 2021, 10:53

Schiller will now be honorably discharged and enter into civilian life, which was apparently his goal anyway, given his disgust with command.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/15/politics/marine-forced-to-forfeit-pay-afghanistan-criticism/index.html…..

Scheller has yet to receive his characterization of discharge. As a part of the plea deal, he will likely receive either an honorable discharge or a general discharge under honorable conditions. The characterization of discharge will be decided by the secretary of the Navy, the military judge said in court on Thursday.

If the secretary of the Navy decides to give Scheller a discharge below general under honorable conditions, Scheller will then want the characterization of discharge to be forwarded to a board of inquiry, which is made up of Marines who are superior to Scheller. Scheller said he would only ask for a board of inquiry if the secretary of the Navy gives Scheller a discharge outside of the two listed in the plea deal.

Scheller's characterization of discharge is significant because it will impact whether or not he receives other military benefits after resigning from the Marine Corps. If he receives an honorable discharge, he will be eligible for benefits, but if he receives any discharge less than that, he stands to lose some military benefits…..

West Coast

4th Nov 2022, 06:14

Well, that didn’t take too terribly long.

https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2022/10/31/accountability-marine-vet-tells-his-side-of-the-story-in-new-book/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fb_mct&fbclid=IwAR0S6uC28_XoZU6uodlLdMULJC0tg9f72WxfdpVpZo8bvQ-yV2aBiWZ8SoM

PICKS135

4th Nov 2022, 18:11

Point No10 should apply to forces worldwide

Chugalug2

4th Nov 2022, 20:25

I hate to say this, but I think it gets worse before it gets better. :*

In a related note, regarding a Naval Officer / Naval Aviator speaking out and getting slammed for it,
interesting article on the CO of the Roosevelt and that COVID thing here. (http://recp.mkt81.net/ctt?m=7391724&r=Mjk3NzYzNzQxMTcS1&b=0&j=MTM0MTU3NTYxNAS2&k=NEWSLETTER&kx=1&kt=12&kd=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.military.com%2Fdaily-news%2F2021%2F09%2F22%2Fchaos-and-drama-new-report-sheds-light-what-went-wrong-aboard-navys-covid-stricken-carrier.html%3FESRC%3Dnavy-a_210929.nl)
For your consideration.
L50, thanks for the link. I see connections between the two cases despite one SO being punished for doing his best for his subordinates with zero support from above. The other of course decided on ploughing a lonely furrow, always a dubious exercise in the military. Nevertheless, both men were punished by their CoC, in my view, having been let down by that same CoC. This rings bells on this side of the pond. The 'unspeakable enemies of the state' earning a crust from our dear Chinese friends were well known to be doing so and not a word said by the RAF leadership until the media saw a story that would simply run and run. Perhaps if the leadership had been less interested in catering to the media woke world and more interested in the RAF's fighting efficiency it would have addressed the reasons why it lost trained and experienced FJ pilots to train the PLAAF. Perhaps if the RAF leadership had simply done its duty it could have been a win-win? As usual the subordinates pay the cost of poor leadership. Perhaps time that the leadership started paying the costs as well?

Thread drift? Wrong thread even? I would counter not, but you pays your money and makes your choice, just as these two SOs did.

T28B

5th Nov 2022, 17:18

As usual the subordinates pay the cost of poor leadership. Perhaps time that the leadership started paying the costs as well?

Thread drift? Wrong thread even? I would counter not, but you pays your money and makes your choice, just as these two SOs did. You are on topic enough, and, as an aside, I found your post to be an intriguing bridge between the two related topics.

SASless

5th Nov 2022, 18:20

Now that this has all played out and we see how the cards were played....I wonder what the real lessons are that should be applied.

Having served two tours in combat flying Chinooks in Vietnam and now having the benefit of time and revelations by the many involved in the decisions and policies ....political and military.....I have a much better understanding of that disastrous period....and what followed.

Some good....some not good happened.

One thing that did not change is the way our Senior Leaders are selected, groomed, and promoted.

We went to an all. volunteer military and other changes have been made due to social pressures....and I am not sure those have had a positive effect in our fielding a battle ready military.

We saw a very long involvement in Vietnam....followed by other misadventures in Iraq and Afghanistan that lasted way too long each....extracting a terrible cost in Lives,Limbs, and national treasure.

Several Authors have provided us with excellent analysis of strategy and tactics from the Vietnam days that it seems our current Senior Military Leadership are loathe to endorse preferring to go the "Woke" route to gain favor by their Civilian Masters.

Westmoreland's strategy of attrition warfare stands out as one of those decisions that was patently stupid in my view.....trading American Lives for Vietnamese Lives in what was a War of Reunification of a divided nation just does not make sense today.

I came to that realization during my second tour when I attended a briefing at our Battalion HQ.....where behind the podium was a Ball Game looking Score Board....a "Them" and "US" accounting by KIA, WIA, MIA.

Dull as I was in those days....it dawned on me that if I kept coming back on more assignments at some point I was going to be one of the ciphers marked on that Tally Board.

One month later I was....and earned a ticket home to convalesce.

The folks running the show got promoted, were given Legions of Merit and other awards....and retired with nice pensions....despite all of their failuresl

Later, we had a new crop of generals that kept telling us we were winning in Iraq and Afghanistan.....and we know how those two Wars ended.

Yet....this latest crop are not having to own up to being incompetent and have to atone for the loss of so many on both sides.

I said it earlier in this thread.....the Colonel was right in what he said but wrong for the way he went about it....and as I forecast he paid a dear price for it.

We need more like the Colonel.

He is not the first Marine to speak out.....read up on General Smedley Butler USMC....and his views on War.

One quote"

“To summarize: Three steps must be taken to smash the war racket.

1. We must take the profit out of war.

2. We must permit the youth of the land who would bear arms to decide whether or not there should be war.

3. We must limit our military forces to home defense purposes.”

― Smedley D. Butler, War is a Racket: The Antiwar Classic by America's Most Decorated Soldier (https://www.goodreads.com/work/quotes/191777)