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Was he Correct in Speaking Out.

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Was he Correct in Speaking Out.

Old 28th Aug 2021, 06:13
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Was he Correct in Speaking Out.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...scheller-video

US Marines officer relieved of duties after video seeking ‘accountability’ over Afghanistan

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...ed-of-command/

….As a member of the Marines for 17 years, he had not yet hit the 20-year mark to qualify for a full pension.

He later posted that fellow Marines asked him to immediately take down the post: “We all agree with you, Stu, but nothing will change, and it will come at a huge personal cost to you,” Scheller recalled them saying.

But he said in the video that he had thought through the consequences. “What you believe in can only be defined by what you’re willing to risk,” he said, adding that he was risking his battalion commander position, family stability and retirement. “I think that gives me some moral high ground to demand the same honesty, accountability and integrity from my senior leaders.”

About 18 hours after he uploaded the video, he posted that he had been relieved from duty.



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Old 28th Aug 2021, 09:32
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Was he Correct in Speaking Out.

Just read this and wondered what your thoughts are regarding using Social media to speak out, I know it is not Aviation related but could apply across the board, taken from the Mail.
Active duty Marine Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller was relieved of his duty for saying senior leaders need to take accountability for botched, fatal Afghanistan evacuation in widely shared video. 'The reason people are so upset on social media right now is not because the Marine on the battlefield let someone down,' Scheller said in a nearly five-minute video posted on Facebook and LinkedIn. 'People are upset because their senior leaders let them down. And none of them are raising their hands and accepting accountability or saying, "We messed this up."' The video has been shared on Facebook over 23,000 times by Friday evening and has over 3,100 comments, most of which are supporting Scheller's bravery for speaking out. He was relieved of his duties hours later. The Marines said in a statement to DailyMail.com, ''This is obviously an emotional time for a lot of Marines, and we encourage anyone struggling right now to seek counseling or talk to a fellow Marine. There is a forum in which Marine leaders can address their disagreements with the chain of command, but it's not social media.' Scheller knew he was risking his stellar 17-year career by posting the video. 'I have been fighting for 17 years. I am willing to throw it all away to say to my senior leaders, "I demand accountability."'
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 13:04
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Real military values

Originally Posted by KPax View Post
Just read this and wondered what your thoughts are regarding using Social media to speak out, I know it is not Aviation related but could apply across the board, taken from the Mail.
Active duty Marine Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller was relieved of his duty for saying senior leaders need to take accountability for botched, fatal Afghanistan evacuation in widely shared video. 'The reason people are so upset on social media right now is not because the Marine on the battlefield let someone down,' Scheller said in a nearly five-minute video posted on Facebook and LinkedIn. 'People are upset because their senior leaders let them down. And none of them are raising their hands and accepting accountability or saying, "We messed this up."' The video has been shared on Facebook over 23,000 times by Friday evening and has over 3,100 comments, most of which are supporting Scheller's bravery for speaking out. He was relieved of his duties hours later. The Marines said in a statement to DailyMail.com, ''This is obviously an emotional time for a lot of Marines, and we encourage anyone struggling right now to seek counseling or talk to a fellow Marine. There is a forum in which Marine leaders can address their disagreements with the chain of command, but it's not social media.' Scheller knew he was risking his stellar 17-year career by posting the video. 'I have been fighting for 17 years. I am willing to throw it all away to say to my senior leaders, "I demand accountability."'
Now there is someone with real moral values. Not evident in politicians
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 14:25
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As it is said...."The Truth shall set you free.".

Although I admire the guy's grit....making himself another martyr shall not change things one small bit.

He is a Leader....and not just a Commander....and sadly there are far too few like him in the Senior Ranks of the Military.

We are seeing today something very similar to the Vietnam years when the Joint Chiefs and senior Combatant Command positions do not offer their Resignations upon being given incredibly stupid orders or see bone headed decisions that defy reality.

Sadly, ours is not the only Military suffering from this kind of environment today.

You did see where Admiral Mullen.....who was the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs recently admitted publicly of having been wrong about his decisions on Afghanistan Strategies for years.

Sadly, he did not go into detail on how it happened he and so many other Senior Commanders and National Security Officials got it so wrong for so long.

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Old 28th Aug 2021, 15:40
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Too right he was. Many in rank between him up to and including "Sleepy Joe" ought to hang their head's in shame and resign. No honour any more at all, example when Lord Carrington resigned over the Falklands, "Not my fault but I am the man in charge at FCO, therefore must resign", or words to that effect.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 15:51
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Incredibly difficult subject, especially for those in positions near the top of the food chain.

I say that because people near the top have [or should have] enough clout to do a bit of steering, a bit of correcting, a bit of nudging. If such a person falls on his/her sword, the replacement might be just a greasy-pole climber. Then we have a lose-lose situation.

For those at and below about one star, they can do little to influence policy or events, and, after making their protest, the sea just fills the hole.

I salute the man, and I do hope he has a Plan B.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 16:55
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Thank you, LB … that saved me a lot of typing.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 18:22
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Unfortunate but in any walk of life the Commander in chief has the last word unless impeached
In work if you disagree with those higher up and you have not been able to change the direction you have a choice to make....
Put up or shut up...he chose to put up.
Will now be seen as a troublemaker
God bless you sir....
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 19:41
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He seems like a good man. Perhaps, the Royal Marines should offer him a job if the USMC don't want him! 🤔
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 19:58
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As a marine, he was probably familiar with Boyd's fork in the road "To Be or To Do"...
Unfortunately men like Col. Scheller, or Col. Boyd never make it far enough up the hierarchy to really make a difference.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 20:07
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Funny, under the previous administration many senior military commanders openly critizied the POTUS - without apparent repercussions.

Oh, and he's absolutely right - no one is being held accountable. They won't even admit that abandoning their biggest airbase was a huge mistake.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 20:25
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I personally think it was a waste. He is a good man and maybe a great leader, but now he has thrown it all away. His statement will be forgotten by next week. Had he kept it within the service then he had a chance of moving up the ranks and maybe actually having a chance to make a difference.

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Old 28th Aug 2021, 21:34
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Originally Posted by XXmet View Post
Beyond his vote, it is specifically not his responsibility to require accountability from his seniors, again, especially his elected political leaders.
Maybe not. But obviously those whose responsibility it would have been failed to do so. What is the consequence? Are those on top never to be held accountable?! They can get away with everything?! Only the lower guys get sacked?! Maybe North Korea might be a great place for You to live. In North Korea you wouldn't have to worry about lower ranks speaking up. China might be a suitable plan B for You. The guys on top can do any mess without being questioned.
I'm happy to live in a world where higher ranks are not sacred and untouchable and can be criticised. That said I'm not sure that in this case it was worth it. He will get sacked and nothing will change.
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 22:25
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Originally Posted by XXmet View Post
"US Marines officer relieved of duties after video seeking ‘accountability’ over Afghanistan"

I take offense with military officers whom take it upon themselves to publicly criticize those appointed over them. Especially their elected leaders. It's not courage to do so. It's lake of emotional control, therefor lack of command ability. This same man has undoubtedly prosecuted, via the UCMJ, others under him for similar offense. If not, he certainly has been entrusted with the ability to do so. What he is doing is disloyal and he is making a poor example for those he himself commands. He has voluntarily given up his civil rights to unquestionably serve at the pleasure of the President of the United States and taken an oath to obey. Clearly he is incapable of command and must be removed. Beyond his vote, it is specifically not his responsibility to require accountability from his seniors, again, especially his elected political leaders. I am ashamed of the Marine Corps that this man could reach the rank of O-5 and not have the discipline to perform his duty.
Go ON. Tell US what YOU really THINK.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”



Last edited by langleybaston; 28th Aug 2021 at 22:28. Reason: addendum
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Old 28th Aug 2021, 23:05
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To not speak out when those above you are obviously doing wrong and not admitting it is an even greater crime in my eyes, if more had spoken out during ww2 then some of the German atrocities might not have happened.

Rightly or wrongly in your eyes, the President and his government are elected officials and as elected officials they are accountable to the public they serve, be they in uniform or not.
Every man, women and child should have the right to critique their Government and President and seek their atonement for their errors.

You say he isn’t a leader, well far from it, to lead it takes guts and he has them in spades full, his thoughts are with his men and those put in harms way by incompetence and ineptitude and he is fighting their corner, he has put his future on the line and his pension, so has lots to lose.

I would promote him and secure his pension, he has more sense of honour and decency than any of those above him who cower and are subservient to the wishes of someone clearly well out of his depth, without the slightest guts to tell it as it is.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 01:34
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Erwin Rommel paid the price for having the courage to speak out against Hitler and his gang along with others.

Speaking out and not just whinging is the measure of the man. Pity more don't...
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 01:40
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His method of "taking issue" with his superior officers must be heavily considered. It's one thing to express misgivings through the chain of command, quite another to post a YouTube video to the world and bring your entire service into disrepute.

Reducing incredibly complex issues into stupidly simple binary right-wrong questions is the hallmark of our time, so it comes as no surprise that many would see the pointless discarding of a career as something taking "guts". Foolishness now passes for noble and brave.

Have to agree with XXmet completely - not worthy of command for his lack of judgement alone. Whether he is "right" or "wrong" is completely irrelevant to that point.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 01:43
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Originally Posted by XXmet View Post
"US Marines officer relieved of duties after video seeking ‘accountability’ over Afghanistan"

I take offense with military officers whom take it upon themselves to publicly criticize those appointed over them. Especially their elected leaders. It's not courage to do so. It's lake of emotional control, therefor lack of command ability. This same man has undoubtedly prosecuted, via the UCMJ, others under him for similar offense. If not, he certainly has been entrusted with the ability to do so. What he is doing is disloyal and he is making a poor example for those he himself commands. He has voluntarily given up his civil rights to unquestionably serve at the pleasure of the President of the United States and taken an oath to obey. Clearly he is incapable of command and must be removed. Beyond his vote, it is specifically not his responsibility to require accountability from his seniors, again, especially his elected political leaders. I am ashamed of the Marine Corps that this man could reach the rank of O-5 and not have the discipline to perform his duty.
A major contributory factor in Afghanistan and Iraq being the sh1tshows that they were, was a lack of senior officers speaking truth to power.

You are entitled to your opinion. I am entitled to disagree.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 01:59
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When I was in the military it was beaten into me that you never criticized the political leadership. Once you put on the uniform you were there to obey all legal orders. Dissenters had two honorable choices: drive a POV up the chain of command and/or leave the military and then have at it. This is because civilian control of the military is the foundation of western democracy. Are there stupid politicians? Yes. The military chain of command is IMO little better. But let's remember the oath we took and the principles that stand behind it.
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Old 29th Aug 2021, 07:34
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“bring your entire service into disrepute”
Huh?
On what basis do you draw that conclusion?

This officer did not get to his rank without knowing the rules or the undoubted outcome of his public plea for accountability. Whether you agree with him or not is irrelevant. How many of us would sacrifice our careers (and pensions) to ensure that an issue about which we felt so strongly required public debate?
I only hope his pleas are not in vain, but experience suggests otherwise.
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