View Full Version : Boeing Starliner
Boeing is having no luck - or yet another example of poor design and/or quality control, depending how you view it….
https://spaceflightnow.com/2021/08/05/boeings-starliner-capsule-returns-to-hanger-for-valve-troubleshooting/
Boeing’s Starliner capsule returns to hanger for valve troubleshooting
The Starliner and SLS are becoming an absolute joke. As is Boeing.
Nige321
9th Aug 2021, 17:42
Starliner update (https://starlinerupdates.com/boeing-advances-starliner-solutions-in-the-vertical-integration-facility/)
How on earth did it make it to the pad with 13 non-functioning valves...?!
This weekend, Boeing restored functionality on more of the 13 CST-100 Starliner propulsion system valves that did not open as designed during prelaunch system checks last week.
Boeing has completed physical inspections and chemical sampling on the exterior of a number of the affected valves, which indicated no signs of damage or external corrosion. Test teams are now applying mechanical, electrical and thermal techniques to prompt the valves open. Seven of the 13 valves are now operating as designed, with inspection and remediation of the remaining affected valves to be performed in the days ahead.
Boeing is working a systematic plan to open the affected valves, demonstrate repeatable system performance, and verify the root cause of the issue before returning Starliner to the launch pad for its Orbital Flight Test-2 mission.
The company is assessing multiple launch opportunities for Starliner in August and will work with NASA and United Launch Alliance to confirm those dates when the spacecraft is ready.
Boeing will continue to provide information at www.StarlinerUpdates.com (https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.starlinerupdates.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7Ckyle.j.herring%40nasa.gov%7C0369c36ceb554f3be c6808d95b3b3890%7C7005d45845be48ae8140d43da96dd17b%7C0%7C0%7 C637641132184642099%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=oHzbjik%2FA0ZDXhi8bVNXAEigb1VKETXKZsYvR6C1xVE%3D&reserved=0) as it becomes available.
teams are now applying mechanical, electrical and thermal techniques to prompt the valves open
Hammer and blowtorch presumably...
Tango and Cash
9th Aug 2021, 19:16
Starliner update (https://starlinerupdates.com/boeing-advances-starliner-solutions-in-the-vertical-integration-facility/)
How on earth did it make it to the pad with 13 non-functioning valves...?!
My completely uneducated and uninformed guess is the root cause (whatever that may be) caused a whole system's worth of valves to become non-functioning.
The problem is that Boeing have no idea of th3 root cause if the failure, and therefore no way of guaranteeing it won’t reoccur during the stresses of launch or exposure to space.
Their access is limited in that the valves are all mounted internally in the vehicle. Their available external testing if the valves shows no corrosion o4 material problems, they seem fine. They have been able to “jiggle” them using heat etc to work, but can they be sure they’ll continue to work?
They could roll the dive and launch, after all it’s unmanned, but would NASA feel safe to then go straight to manned flights without being 100% certain if th3 cause?
Bottom line - NASA won’t let them fly until they can identify the roof cause and prove it has been resolved. As such I can’t see how it can fly until they’ve been removed and had detailed internal inspections - however desperately Boeing argue the case with NASA.
Tango and Cash
10th Aug 2021, 17:51
The problem is that Boeing have no idea of th3 root cause if the failure, and therefore no way of guaranteeing it won’t reoccur during the stresses of launch or exposure to space.
Their access is limited in that the valves are all mounted internally in the vehicle. Their available external testing if the valves shows no corrosion o4 material problems, they seem fine. They have been able to “jiggle” them using heat etc to work, but can they be sure they’ll continue to work?
They could roll the dive and launch, after all it’s unmanned, but would NASA feel safe to then go straight to manned flights without being 100% certain if th3 cause?
Bottom line - NASA won’t let them fly until they can identify the roof cause and prove it has been resolved. As such I can’t see how it can fly until they’ve been removed and had detailed internal inspections - however desperately Boeing argue the case with NASA.
If they roll the dice and launch:
Best case, it works, but Boeing still has to figure out the root cause and show to NASA's satisfaction it has been addressed. Cue flight test #3?
Worst case, it doesn't work, Boeing has yet another media black eye and still has to figure out what went wrong. I suspect there will be more than a few folks calling for cancellation of Boeing's contract.
I'm guessing there will be no dice rolling, no launch, and Starliner isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
Tango and Cash
13th Aug 2021, 22:28
I was wrong, Starliner is going someplace... back to the factory for further troubleshooting
https://starlinerupdates.com/starliner-returning-to-factory-to-resolve-valve-issue/
TURIN
14th Aug 2021, 01:34
How long have they been building and function testing this heap of Garbage? Glad it's not my taxes paying for it.
cavuman1
14th Aug 2021, 23:06
Brings back painful memories of the Apollo 1 fire in 1967. That ship was an accident waiting to happen; I fear Starliner may be one as well. Time to pull the plug IMHO.
- Ed
wiggy
15th Aug 2021, 11:16
Brings back painful memories of the Apollo 1 fire in 1967. That ship was an accident waiting to happen; I fear Starliner may be one as well. Time to pull the plug IMHO.
- Ed
I must admit that thought has crossed my a few times when reading some of the previous posts…
ATSA1
16th Aug 2021, 15:06
.....Especially as Spacex have a very serviceable product, already doing the job!
The Sultan
2nd Jun 2023, 01:40
Brings back painful memories of the Apollo 1 fire in 1967. That ship was an accident waiting to happen; I fear Starliner may be one as well. Time to pull the plug IMHO.
- Ed
Mid-July launch of first crewed vehicle now delayed indefinitely for understrength parachuted risers and using a flammable tape in the cabin to wrap wire harnesses! Apollo 1 all over again! This is worse than not knowing that Florida is humid in summer, which caused their second demo flight valve problems. I don't know who is more incompetent Boeing for doing it or NASA for not finding the issues until the third flight.
Time to kick this pig to the curb and hope Sierra's space plane works.
https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/06/boeing-stands-down-from-starliner-launch-to-address-recently-found-problems/
……These new problems are likely to ratchet up concerns from outside observers about the safety culture at Boeing.
Last week (https://spacenews.com/nasa-safety-panel-skeptical-of-starliner-readiness-for-crewed-flight/), NASA's Aerospace Safety Advisory Panel urged NASA to bring in independent experts to assess the viability of Starliner.
“Given the number of remaining challenges to certification of Starliner, we strongly encourage NASA to step back and take a measured look at the remaining body of work with respect to flying CFT,” Patricia Sanders, chair of the committee, said on May 25.
She believes NASA should bring in an independent team, such as from the NASA Engineering and Safety Center, “to take a deep look at the items on the path to closure.”
That was before the most recent issues cropped up. Doubtless, safety experts will be concerned about how these issues went undiscovered by Boeing and NASA until the final weeks leading up to the flight…..
Questions have been raised about whether Boeing will remain committed to the Starliner program, which is already a money loser.
The company is contracted to fly six missions for NASA after certification of the Starliner vehicle, which will only occur after the crewed flight test. Boeing has already received much of the $4.2 billion from NASA in milestone awards, so it presumably would have to give some of that money back if it did not fly astronauts for NASA. But the cost of flying those missions may be greater than any funding Boeing would have to pay back to NASA.….
The Sultan
7th Aug 2023, 20:45
Update to the latest delay.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/07/boeing-resets-starliners-first-crewed-spaceflight-target-for-march.html
Now the earliest for a crewed test flight is March 2024 with first operational flight sometime in 2025. This is eight years after the originally planned 2017 operational date and 6 years after the failed initial test flight.
Boing continues to excel!
First launch planned for 0234 UTC Tuesday , 2234 EDT today.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpeg21x7n7qo
https://x.com/spaceflightnow/status/1787304991696334948?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A
https://x.com/boeingspace/status/1787346939589407158?s=61&t=rmEeUn68HhlFHGKbTPQr_A
Flight scrubbed, due a valve problem on the launch vehicle not a capsule issue, next attempt NET Friday.
Space.com:
”It will take a few days to work through the valve issue that scrubbed the first astronaut mission of Boeing's Starliner (https://www.space.com/19367-boeing-cst-100.html) capsule.
A test mission to the International Space Station called Crew Flight Test (CFT).CFT was supposed to launch on Monday night (May 6).
That attempt was called off (https://www.space.com/boeing-starliner-1st-launch-attempt-scrub) about two hours before the planned liftoff, however, due to an issue with a pressure regulation valve on the liquid oxygen tank in the upper stage of Starliner's rocket ride, a United Launch Alliance (ULA) Atlas V.
Early on Tuesday morning (May 7), NASA announced that launch teams need more time to troubleshoot the issue. The earliest that CFT could launch is now Friday night (May 10), at 9 p.m. EDT (0100 GMT on May 11).”
They really are having some bad luck with this. The Atlas is one of the most reliable rockets avaliable. Ho hum.
True generically but this is an Atlas V..big changes over previous iterations including Russian engines, and FWIW last night’s (now believed to be minor) problem was in the Centaur upper stage.
ULA will roll the Atlas V rocket back to its hangar to replace a faulty valve in its upper stage. Next launch attempt is 10 days from today.
https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/
Won't be fun for the crew to be in quarantine for 10 days
MechEngr
8th May 2024, 09:28
Quarantine is when they may have a disease you don't want to catch.
Isolation is when you may have a disease they don't want to catch.