Rest during a long haul flight...

[start sequence 312]

Hello everyone, I’d like to make a comparison…
During a long haul flight when there is a double crew - 2 captains and 2 F/Os - who decides which pilot will sleep first or later and who will operate the airplane during takeoff and landing?
In my current employment when there're two captains flying together, the oldest in the seniority list decides everything - what time he wants to sleep, who will operate and so on - and usually the youngest captain has no choice...will normally rest during the worst period and operates only when permitted by the other silver hair guy…very democratic as you could see.
Thanks for your replies.

[Intruder]

The Captain assigned as Pilot in Command (who signs the flight plan/dispatch), regardless of seniority, should make all decisions regarding the conduct of the flight. If he wants to defer to another Captain, that's his decision to make.

We usually fly with 1 Capt and 3 FOs. Generally, the crew discusses their preferences and come to a mutual agreement. The working Capt and FO (those who are in the seat for T/O and Ldg) are given first preference.

[G.Khan]

I have often flown 2 capts. and 2 F/Os. The capt nominated as the commander, by crew rostering department, (not a seniority issue), will sign all the documents etc. flight plan and so on and liase with his deputy capt. and F/Os. The capt. in command will, with the F/O nominated, (as above), as the primary F/O carry out the take off and landing.

The capt. in command decides what rest he is going to take and has a responsibility to the deputy capt. to advise him/her in plenty of time for them to arrange their pre-flight rest accordingly.
The F/Os work it out between them too.

Sadly this essential courtesy is frequently 'forgotten' in certain S.E Asian carriers.:mad:

[canberra]

and now another question. what do the guys who arent in the seats for take off and landing log their time in the seats as?

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Thank you for your replies...
G.Khan just a question:
The second captain become the pilot in charge during the returning flight with the same crews?

[G.Khan]

SS312 - It could just happen that you came back with the same crew but not a regular thing.

If one was deputy crew out then USUALLY one would be 'in-command' coming back. Again, seniority never entered into it.
If, however, along the way you were paired up with a Trainer then they could, if they needed to, take over as 'in-command' to complete a training detail. It was Crew Rosterings job to try and ensure everybody got a fair share.

Different companies have different ways of doing things, as you appreciate.

Cheers. GK.

[curmudgeon]

A bit OT I know but triggered by canberra's question.

I noticed on the Blue Fox webiste that a pilot who's on the advisory board has "22,000 hours flying activity, including those on a simulator."

Is it normal to include sim time in your total hours?

cur

[Captain Stable]

I would assume that, regardless of whether you were in the seat for take-off and/or landing, in the "Start" and "Finish" times columns you would log actual take-off and landing times, and in the remaining columns you would put the time actually spent at the controls.

curmudgeon - no

[Intruder]

curmudgeon:

Depends on who you're talking to. The FAA allows simulator time to be counted, with some restrictions, toward minima for certificates and currency. Hiring airlines, OTOH, sometimes specifically direct that you exclude simulator time from reported hours.

[HugMonster]

curmudgeon - most of what you read on the Blue Fox website is bulls**t.

Take the following as an example:-(N) attended the Universities of xxxxx and xxxxxx, achieving qualifications in Nuclear Physics and Law. He has worked as a senior computing manager, and has been a director of several large insurance concerns, advising in Law and Tax liability. He has worked with several multi-national corporations including IBM, ICL, NCR, British Telecom, Cable and Wireless. He has travelled extensively, was involved in the formation and launch of several international travel businesses. He has extensive experience in the educational sphere, as senior governor of several independent schools and also in agricultural management. He has carried out senior functions in government security services, including vital roles (both operational and post-operational analysis and debriefing) in multi-national airborne operations, advising on anti-terrorist operations and retains many contacts in governmental, security and armed forces circles. He has co-operated with police and armed forces in many parts of the world on security, traffic enforcement, firearms enforcement and anti-drugs trafficking operations. In aviation, he has trained some of the best of today's airline pilots, and has many thousands of hours on aircraft and simulator, as an instructor, senior captain, Flight Safety Officer, Navigation Officer, Training Captain, and Operations Manager as well as advising Flight Operations Directors of some of the largest airlines in the world and consulting with Aviation Regulatory Organisations. He has flown many varied types of aircraft, from the smallest to the largest transport aircraft. He has extensive commercial experience to top management level in both contract and ad-hoc charter business, as well as establishing sheduled airline services and organising many humanitarian and medical emergency operations. He is currently working as a free-lance consultant.Who is this? Doesn't matter. It sounds impressive, doesn't it? VERY economical with the truth in places (but no outright lies) but basically true(ish). That's what the website is there to do. Just sound impressive. Things like "retains many contacts in governmental, security and armed forces circles" means that he has a few mates who are former squaddies and has written to his MP a few times, etc. "has co-operated with police ...in many parts of the world on security, traffic enforcement..." means he was stopped for speeding in more than one country.

My guess is that the Blue Fox guy has logged a few thousand hours in an aircraft and spent a lot longer in the back of a sim pushing buttons.