Oops! AAL B738 hits light pole at DFW

[Pistonprop]

Sorry, for some reason the link isn't showing. Trying to work on it.

Edit: Unable to link the video. Incident occurred May 28th. Maybe someone else (more savvy than myself) can submit a link.

[sleeper]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DhSOr_dPRSE

[Pistonprop]

Thank you sleeper.

[Avenger]

"Cowboys" or red-necks! either way just follow the taxi lines, mind you BA did it in a 74 at Joberg, hit a building I recall

[Dave Gittins]

So where were the taxiway markings he should have been following ?

[CHfour]

In fairness I think the BA 74 took a wrong turn onto a taxiway not intended for jumbos and it was dark. In this episode it was daylight, nothing on the right to prevent giving the lamp post a safer margin, the obstruction was on the captain's side and it wasn't a case of just clipping it either. Inexcusable!

[The Ancient Geek]

The BA Joburg pilot had no real chance of avoiding the incident, He was given an unfamiliar taxiway which had faulty lights. The taxiway took a left turn but the centre lights at the turn were out so he just went straight on towards a maintenance facility with limited clearance.
The SACAA gave the airport ground maintenance system a very severe hard time for their failings.

The accident report made interesting reading. The pilot got some nice biscuits with his coffee at the subsequent meeting <B-).

[Hueymeister]

So is this the beginning of a rise in incidents/occurrences post COVID slowdown?

[Ollie Onion]

Not even close to missing it, this was a big misjudgement. Still I wouldn't bet my house that I couldn't do something similar :-/ I can't see any obvious taxiway markings there?

[Denti]

Will that open up a CPT slot on the seniority list?

[fox niner]

Pilot taxiing must have recently transferred from the Starfighter. :E

[TWT]

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/759x500/aa_wing_88cc03a8ed4e4d6bf486008c0c191200b588bf9f.jpg

https://samchui.com/2021/06/01/american-airlines-boeing-737-hits-light-pole-in-dallas-airport/

[blind pew]

See my observations were deleted. Only two 747s have taken that wrong taxiway in Joburg. The previous one just happened to be BA as well. Would that just happen to be a coincidence? IIRC the BA airport chart had a warning on it.

[DaveReidUK]

Ollie Onion

"Not even close to missing it, this was a big misjudgement. Still I wouldn't bet my house that I couldn't do something similar :-/ I can't see any obvious taxiway markings there?"


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/588x650/n834nn_kdfw_2d51ee8bda605c2b11439d4bedfe95a2e61e1ca5.jpg

Span of a wingletted B738 is 117 ft 5 in.

[Lookleft]

Always stay with your wingman
Never cut the corner on the ramp!

[TukwillaFlyboy]

There is nothing more humiliating than bending an aircraft while taxiing.
Cold tea and bickies and a very unhappy Chief Pilot.

[Less Hair]

Why is this confusing line needed at all?

[Deepinsider]

All aviators will be so sad watching this clip.
It's just lazy dumb ass complacency driving around like that.
Definitely change of seats at a minimum

[Avman]

I can see what caused the confusion. Yes there is a colour difference with the lines but not much. With them being faded and possible cockpit distractions the possibility to err is there. I would like to know from which gate they were pushed back and the exact position they were pushed back to.

[MPN11]

Likewise. I'm looking on Google Earth and agree the taxiway lines at DFW aren't exactly pristine. Furthermore, there's a plethora of other lines around the place ... DaveReidUK's image upthread seems to me to show a track plot where the Captain picked up an Edge marking instead of a Centreline. And what, please, is that dashed black/yellow line that lies across the intended path of the aircraft? Another visual distraction?

Edit: FR24 shows the location. A 2-aircraft remote stand opposite A-29 at Terminal A.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n834nn#27dc750d

[spekesoftly]

And what, please, is that dashed black/yellow line that lies across the intended path of the aircraft?

Probably an Intermediate Apron/Ramp Holding Point/Position.

[DaveReidUK]

MPN11

"Edit: FR24 shows the location. A 2-aircraft remote stand opposite A-29 at Terminal A."

Yes, I believe the aircraft had pushed back from A29, having arrived at that gate about an hour and a half previously from KBNA.

[FullWings]

Assuming that they didn’t do it on purpose, it will be interesting to read what sent them down that route.

I suspect following the wrong markings could be high up the list. How many experienced pilots can put their hands on their hearts and say they’ve never started off down the wrong line, or even just changed their minds as to what appeared to be the correct option before committing to it? At the same time, it does seem to be a rather prominent obstacle but it might have looked different from cockpit level - lost in visual clutter, maybe?

[teej013]

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/750x684/dfw_2007_b4461c542409f61a844148d4099f07e2f0c7da3a.jpg
The lines used to have other lines painted at 90 degrees to them, but have faded.

[Less Hair]

That's a proper marking not that faded guess line.

[Pistonprop]

Since it's not a very recent picture, I would say that it doesn't represent the state of those lines now. [You can clearly see that it's an AAL MD-80. They retired the last ones in September 2019].

[Kirks gusset]

So where were the taxiway markings he should have been following ?

At a guess I would say that would be the marks on the concrete whilst maintaining situational awareness and trying not to hit anything! and for those that say they are "faded" must never have taxied at airports in winter conditions when frost and snow obscures them.

[Equivocal]

The most recent imagery available on Google Earth Pro is from 11/2020. There are clearly some places where old markings have been scrabbled off off the pavement but the current markings do appear largely to meet the the standards that one might expect at a major airport. In particular the the 'taxiway' centreline markings and intermediate holding positions are on a black painted background to enhance contrast between the concrete pavement and the makings and, hence, improve conspicuity. The edge markings on the apron appear rather less well maintained than the centreline and it is noticeable that the clarity of the edge/shoulder marking on the taxiway adjoining the apron at that junction appears far better than on the apron. This might be important because, if the incident aircraft was following any markings as the centreline guidance, it appears to have followed the edge markings. Apron markings around the world do vary but the US AIM suggests that the edge marking is a double line (either solid or dashed) whereas the true taxiway centreline is a single line (which is pretty much universal). It's hard to tell from the Google Earth imagery whether the edge markings are solid or dashed but there is a hint that they are, in fact, dashed.

Is it easy to mistake a pair of 6 inch wide, possibly dashed, lines for a single solid line? I guess on a dark and stormy night that might be a possibility, maybe even likely if some of the markings are worn....but these were rather different conditions. There are, of course, a variety of other reasons that may result in the pilot steering the aircraft mistaking the two types of marking. Judging by the rate of the turn (as well as normal practise) the aircraft was being steered with the tiller so, presumably, the pilot in the LH seat will be the centre of any investigations.

Just returning to the markings for a moment, the older imagery from teej013 shows the perpendicular edge/shoulder markings which are specifically intended to indicate which side of the pavement for aircraft use and which side is unusable by aircraft. Looking at the most recent imagery, these markings are well and truly absent. A shame really because it might have helped to avoid a rather unfortunate and undesirable incident.

There endeth the beginning of an armchair investigation seeking to identify possible contributory causes/factors. And apologies to the professionals if I've got anything wrong - full disclosure, I'm not a professional pilot and it's a good while since I was up the front of a B737.

[PJD1]

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1000x540/untitled_1_d21554604ce45ec53a2a775aea25fb833b0cda63.jpg

Not quite a pilot's eye view but perhaps this puts some perspective on it. Google says image data for this is from 2021

[JH870]

All aviators will be so sad watching this clip.It's just lazy dumb ass complacency driving around like that.Definitely change of seats at a minimum
I'd imagine most aviators would probably think, if it can happen to them, it can happen to me, after the year and a half of low to zero hours flying.

That you would call for a demotion or worse shows a lack of regard for human error, and frankly a lack of common sense.

:mad: happens 👍

[Avman]

Personally I'm always interested in the "why" rather than promoting punishment. What made a qualified Captain make this error? Were they pushed back to an unusual position which may have played a part? Were they in a hurry? Was there some unforeseen distraction in the cockpit?

[B888]

Not trying to judge here ( as the longer you’re a pilot, then you should realize how easy crap happens), but taxiway lines does not guarantee wingtip clearance. If you’re not absolutely sure, stop.
Other Airplanes may not be parked properly.

[DaveReidUK]

See the photo in post #29.

The taxiway onto which the 737 was turning (leading to Kilo, Lima and the runways) is 200 feet wide (between the edge markings) and has not one, but 3, parallel taxiway lines which allow two narrow-bodies to pass each other safely, provided each keeps to its own side of the taxiway.

It seems likely that the unfortunate combination of the "keep left" imperative and the ambiguous edge markings led to inadvertently following the LH edge marking line while thinking that it was one of the 3 prescribed taxiway lines.

[Raffles S.A.]

From previous experience, in places like Pointe Noire (very congested at times) when in a tight situation I opened my window and stuck my head out, and if in doubt, got a wingman.

I was also at Harare once and a BA 747 called the tower and complained that if they hadn't had a wingman, they would have collided with a parked plane even though they were following the taxi line. I certainly don't trust taxi markings in the third world but one would expect them to provide clearance in developed countries.

[tdracer]

Watching the video, shortly after the aircraft hits the pole, something appears to fall off the right wing of the aircraft, outboard of the engine. Any idea what that might have been?

[HighSpeedAluminum]

if you observe the top of the lamp post at impact you’ll have your answer.

[Bksmithca]

Tdracer it's the top of the light that flew off and hit the top right side of the fuselage and slid down.

[tdracer]

OK, thanks - missed that part on the first watch....

[Lookleft]

It seems likely that the unfortunate combination of the "keep left" imperative and the ambiguous edge markings led to inadvertently following the LH edge marking line while thinking that it was one of the 3 prescribed taxiway lines.

Thats a very good place to start. Why would you even paint a line that looked like a taxi line that wasn't meant to be followed by an aircraft? Unfortunately for the crew they are considered to be the last line of defense and will bear ultimately responsibility for the accident.

[BraceBrace]

Still I wouldn't bet my house that I couldn't do something similar :-/

Yup... I "escaped" a couple of months ago entering an appron with a taxiway that had been "re-routed" with an S-bend and a mobile lightpole erected on the edge of the "old" taxiway. Any taxiway that is "indicated" by a set of lines on a big concrete sea is prone to error...

[Viper 7]

Capt might have been head down taking airways or some other paperwork maybe?

[aterpster]

Not when he is taxiing. Taxiing requires full attention.

[FlightDetent]

Not quite a pilot's eye view but perhaps this puts some perspective on it. Exactly. On a different continent we used to have a nickname "Barachaos" for one particular place. But they did get the taxiway edge markings very right!

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1110x852/barachaos_c0b9b7cf5e47b1ebb9abf6ad43a48444722af3af.png

(if this was in the UK, there'd be a roundabout :E)

[dixi188]

At Heathrow you follow the greens.
I don't understand why it's not used more, it cuts out a lot of the complicated taxi instructions you get at some airports.

[Max Angle]

Only at night, quite possible to go wrong at LHR even if you are based there, the taxiway naming /signing system is a mess although admittedly it would be quite hard to hit a lamp post.

Unfortunately for the skipper there is only one person who is ever going to be blamed if the aircraft hits a stationary object.

[FullWings]

True. However, in a Just Culture, one would hope that all factors would be taken into account before taking any action against someone who may just be the unlucky person with all the holes in the cheese lining up. A lot depends on the NTSB findings and recommendations.

It’s easy to say that you should never hit anything on the ground, but guess what, aeroplanes keep doing it all over the place and it is not always because they’re being driven by inattentive cowboys. Maybe this accident, along with others, might lead to a review of signage/markings/charts making it easier for everyone else to operate more safely? One can only hope...

[DaveReidUK]

FullWings

"A lot depends on the NTSB findings and recommendations."

I'll be very surprised if the NTSB gets involved in any investigation of this event.

[wiggy]

Yup, how often have you seen NOTAMs/company info warning not to follow certain painted markings at XXX,YYY, or ZZZ, or warnings about old markings that were supposed to be painted out with a bucket of black paint but are actually still visible/prominent in certain lighting and weather conditions?..I certainly remember one airport where we always arrived in the dark and the reminder was always issued by P1 or P2 on entering the ramp was - "remember, whatever you do do not follow what looks like the first line onto the gate.... "

Sure, the blame will fall on the occupant of 0A in the case of the OP but there are some paintwork traps out there.

[FullWings]

"I'll be very surprised if the NTSB gets involved in any investigation of this event."

I thought it was reportable under CFR §830.2, although having just read through that it would appear to only apply if they caused more than $25k worth of damage to the light (which is possible...)

[Duck Pilot]

Give the Captain a break, the lines (failed and obsolete or whatever) on the taxiway looks like a dogs breakfast!

I agree with the comment in relation to the COVID effect with regards to potentially being out of the cockpit for 12 months or more. Fair enough sim re-currency, line training and all the other fluff can tick all the compliance boxes, however some of us may still not be as sharp as we were, before being forced out of the cockpit last year due to COVID. We will get their quickly, however we are only human!

[gulliBell]

FullWings

The damage to the light is peanuts compared to what it will cost to repair that damaged wing.

[FullWings]

I’ve just re-read the CFR and have changed my mind, as I missed the generic criterion while concentrating on specific ones. It says any aircraft accident needs to be immediately reported, and defines an accident as:

...an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage. For purposes of this part, the definition of aircraft accident includes unmanned aircraft accident, as defined herein.

It certainly looks like substantial damage to the wing, so unless I’m interpreting it wrongly (not impossible as I’ve already done just that) there should have been a notification filed to the NTSB, unless anyone knows to the contrary?

[DaveReidUK]

FullWings

"It certainly looks like substantial damage to the wing, so unless I’m interpreting it wrongly (not impossible as I’ve already done just that) there should have been a notification filed to the NTSB, unless anyone knows to the contrary?"

Some perhaps understandable confusion here.

Yes, the damage to the 737 will almost certainly be classed as substantial.

Yes, that will therefore qualify the incident as a notifiable (to the NTSB) event, as it no doubt has been.

But neither of those necessarily implies that the NTSB will conduct an investigation (though AAL and the DFW airport authorities almost certainly will). Nor have some similar events in the past.

[Squawk7777]

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1124/_20210605_111210_7872b0970416842f1a0ed9f6550aef668fdc9236.jp g

[Squawk7777]

Word @ AA is that this airplane will be parted out.

[Squawk7777]

Avman

I would also add the airport (in)experience. If this was say an LAX, LGA or MIA based crew with little experience flying out of the "Master Base", I can see this being a factor too.

[Deepinsider]

Thank you for your comment, JH 870. I've thought about what you said.
There is a vague line between 'accident' and 'negligent'.
Let's hope his/her boss decides it's your side of the line, rather than mine.

[DaveReidUK]

Deepinsider

"There is a vague line between 'accident' and 'negligent'."

The line between nouns and adjectives, perhaps ?

[jugofpropwash]

FullWings

Why on earth would center and edge lines be painted identical or even similar colors? It seems intuitive that obstacles should be clearly marked as they are in post 43 above. For that matter, I'd think that such markings should be standardized, at least nationally and preferably worldwide to eliminate any confusion.

[Equivocal]

The taxiway centrelines are painted like that because there are international standards. Some of the other markings on aprons are rather less standardised, however.

[Squawk7777]

I taxied around DFW last week and I didn't have an issue with the taxi centerline and edge markings. I don't recall the edge markings to be an issue in DFW. I'd wish AA would revisit the "before takeoff" checklist and eliminate the heads-down time (at least on the Airbus side - can't speak for the 73).

I hope one day taxiline colo(u)rs are invented that are visible at night especially when it's rainy.