Virgin 3.1

[DanV2]

Bain was on record of saying they'll want to re-enter Long Haul in the future, but has said that Long Haul is a long while off.

If International Travel recovers to 50-60% of 2019 figures, I could see Bain re-entering LAX only (or HND if Int'l travel recovers faster and they somewhat manage to keep that slot) before exiting the company.

Otherwise if Int'l Long Haul travel demand lags behind 2019 figures, Bain will likely concentrate on Domestic and Short Haul international before exiting.

[Bumble_Pilot]

Anyone else hearing VA are pushing for 100 73s and a dozen or so 78/350s?
please tell me it’s true!

[galdian]

Anyone else hearing VA are pushing for 100 73s and a dozen or so 78/350s?
please tell me it’s true!

...and so the Bain smoke and mirrors show starts to ramp up, gotta do something to con any possible investors that she's all "you beaut", let us take your money and we'll give you the ride of a lifetime. :ok:

[anonfly]

Anyone else hearing VA are pushing for 100 73s and a dozen or so 78/350s?
please tell me it’s true!

Mainline fleet up to 77 aircraft now. With 20 odd Max’s on order. Always a rumour about WBs. At this stage I doubt there is any truth to it. 2yrs time maybe. Crystal ball gazing and all

[Bumble_Pilot]

Mainline fleet up to 77 aircraft now. With 20 odd Max’s on order. Always a rumour about WBs. At this stage I doubt there is any truth to it. 2yrs time maybe. Crystal ball gazing and all
out of curiosity, what was the VA fleet breakdown pre covid? (Including TT and VANZ if possible)

[mates rates]

Another 44 inactive pilots awarded 737 F/o slots as they are planning 104 aircraft.Pre COVID with VA and VANZ the number was 84.

[Lookleft]

they are planning 104 aircraft.Pre COVID with VA and VANZ the number was 84.

Is JH trying to out Borghetti Borghetti? 20 airframes over the precovid fleet sounds like she is preparing for a capacity war once all the borders are open which wont be until April 22 if the WA Bonaparte is to be believed. Probably the first casualty she is aiming for will be Rex but capacity wars are like the nuclear option.

[AerialPerspective]

Is JH trying to out Borghetti Borghetti? 20 airframes over the precovid fleet sounds like she is preparing for a capacity war once all the borders are open which wont be until April 22 if the WA Bonaparte is to be believed. Probably the first casualty she is aiming for will be Rex but capacity wars are like the nuclear option.

Well, let's not forget that VA are now owned by a Private Equity firm with the moral compass of a virulent disease microbe - they will try anything to make a quick buck and will not care a crap if they take VA down again as the modus operandi of these privateers is that their first act is to raise loans in the target company's name to pay themselves back for the takeover and let the target business carry all the risk. So, if it fails, it fails. PE walk away with a bag full of money and everyone else can go screw themselves.

[PoppaJo]

Tiger 320/737 and Virgin 737 was 98 combined in FY19. Widebody domestic capacity was equal to around 5 737s.

Pretty much the 104 quoted above.

I really don’t think you need to have an all out capacity war against Rex, and it’s what 5 737s, to remove it. Lack of scale will basically kill that operation. I mean it will probably go on for a bit, Tiger persisted 13 years with no earnings. Not sure if they have as much patience.

[SHVC]

With the return of the crews made redundant, are they required to pay back any of the pay out cash or has it worked out to be a golden handshake. You would have to think they had it best- good pay out 12 months off and slip right back in to the left on the good cash. If you were senior I’m sure there was no doubt that you would be back in the time frame in the EBA.

[Telfer86]

Wouldn't have thought so
But I sure am not an employment lawyer expert type person
Their employment terminated thus redundancy payment & now new employees of a new entity
Would have been a stretch to have that in a clause of re-employment - please pay back to the new entity , the redundancy money you got from previous employment at old entity

The redundancy wasn't that great anyway ? , or am I wrong yet again
Didn't the previous contract have it "capped" at 18 weeks or something, I thought the legal min was 2 weeks for every year ? (other airlines in Aust get 4 weeks for every year if CR)

[1A_Please]

With the return of the crews made redundant, are they required to pay back any of the pay out cash or has it worked out to be a golden handshake. You would have to think they had it best- good pay out 12 months off and slip right back in to the left on the good cash. If you were senior I’m sure there was no doubt that you would be back in the time frame in the EBA.
You wouldn't have to pay it back but service length resets to zero. I'm not sure how seniority works in these situations though.

[grrowler]

With the return of the crews made redundant, are they required to pay back any of the pay out cash or has it worked out to be a golden handshake. You would have to think they had it best- good pay out 12 months off and slip right back in to the left on the good cash. If you were senior I’m sure there was no doubt that you would be back in the time frame in the EBA.

Pretty sure any of the guys that got the so-called “golden handshake” 😂 - selling homes, working in Woolies (if you were lucky), relationship issues, depression, etc - would have very happily swapped their lot for any takers that remained employed.

**** comment

[PoppaJo]

Pretty much all those I know made redundant used the funds to try and just survive. The cash ran out pretty quick.

Not many if any would be in the position to repay anything.

[ozbiggles]

With the return of the crews made redundant, are they required to pay back any of the pay out cash or has it worked out to be a golden handshake. You would have to think they had it best- good pay out 12 months off and slip right back in to the left on the good cash. If you were senior I’m sure there was no doubt that you would be back in the time frame in the EBA.

One of the most self entitled, self centred, lack of empathy statements ever made on PPRUNE, well done you.

But what would you expect of someone who can’t even count?

[Stationair8]

Little bird tells me that some crews are being rostered for Max difference training?

[Goat Whisperer]

Little bird tells me that some crews are being rostered for Max difference training?

Hundreds of VA pilots have done the Max differences and still more have done training like UPRT and ZQN port qual in the Max device. Regardless of when the airframes turn up, it benefits the company: Max qualified pilots can do recurrent sims in the Max, reducing the demand on the two NG devices. But all accounts the Max flies nicely and the sim is a great device.

[Logan31]

Any substance in whispers N.Z base will eventually open up in Virgin ops across tasman??

[PoppaJo]

Any substance in whispers N.Z base will eventually open up in Virgin ops across tasman??

Tasman flying ambitions might have changed today for a few. NZ boosting its border charges from $20 to $46 from December 1. That’s the profit margin gone right there, if even that, in what was already a very marginal market.

So a return NZ airfare now totals about $250-$300 of taxes and charges. Renders low cost airlines on the Tasman unsustainable, great work Jacinda.

[Colonel_Klink]

Any substance in whispers N.Z base will eventually open up in Virgin ops across tasman??

You’d have to think this is unlikely. Lots of recruitment going on (and more to come) that would have a fair number of the WB crew back on the 73 - but all based in Oz.

The airline is approaching the same number of 737s as pre administration. There is a strong push for ‘efficiency’ especially with the new EA.

The decision to close NZ bases was probably in the mix before going into administration which makes it hard to think they will open them back up. Especially if the ZQN flying is anything to go by for what the NZ schedule will look like - early departures from AUS across the Tasman and back late arvo. That sort of flying can easily be crewed ex Aus.

[big buddah]

Many years ago Fiji increased it departure tax from something small ($99?) to $250 and life went on and the tourist numbers kept on increasing. So yes passing the cost on will hurt but there’s always more to the picture. Jacinda has to recover the $120b and rising, she’s spent keeping COVID out, because it want come from government efficiencies.

[big buddah]

You’d have to think this is unlikely. Lots of recruitment going on (and more to come) that would have a fair number of the WB crew back on the 73 - but all based in Oz.

The airline is approaching the same number of 737s as pre administration. There is a strong push for ‘efficiency’ especially with the new EA.

The decision to close NZ bases was probably in the mix before going into administration which makes it hard to think they will open them back up. Especially if the ZQN flying is anything to go by for what the NZ schedule will look like - early departures from AUS across the Tasman and back late arvo. That sort of flying can easily be crewed ex Aus.

this will all depend on how VA places its self in the market. It’s all good saying it’s efficient to do SYD-ZQN-SYD, but that’s only 5 hours flight time for the frame. Moving that aircraft to and from domestic is a hassle and doesn’t really fit into a proper trans Tasman or greater international schedule, having the aircraft doing Akl-Syd-ZQN-Syd-Akl suddenly has that aircraft hitting 13 hrs per day, highly efficient. Same with Bne and Melbourne sectors, it might mean a change of thinking with VA overnighting crew in Qn but the fears of crew being stuck there because of weather has long gone with RNP. It’s either Australian based crew overnighting in NZ or having an Auckland base again. There’s a reason why Auckland is the hub for JC,J*, ANZ, it’s the most efficient way to fly the Tasman. It’s a reason why the old PB crew went chc-bne-nan-bne-chc, you’re looking at 13-14 hours utilisation. It’s either that our VA gives up on all the early morning NZ departures from NZ, basically giving that market and it connecting pax/freight to QF/NZ. Let’s see what direction they go?

[Colonel_Klink]

this will all depend on how VA places its self in the market. It’s all good saying it’s efficient to do SYD-ZQN-SYD

Sorry - to be clear I wasn’t implying that an aeroplane only doing SYD ZQN SYD is an efficient use of an aircraft. As you said - the aircraft utilisation where the aeroplane starts early morning in AKL and ends the day in AKL is a particularly efficient use of the frame.

The utilisation of VANZ crew (as well as VAI BNE) was particularly low especially when compared to what the VAA crew were doing. Based on that - I would think it’s more likely that Aus crew would overnight in AKL as opposed to starting a new base if the aircraft is schedule to start the day early in the morning in NZ. Having said that, with the opening of ADL there seems to be a push to reduce overnights? When things were ‘normal’ ADL had a lot of aircraft that overnighted - I wonder if AKL will have the same when things pick up, or if it’s more likely to be 3-4 which wouldn’t warrant a base.

Ultimately, until we see a NZ schedule, this is all guess work. The Aus based crew have been told they will be flying the Tasman - in the short term that’s what will happen. In the long term - who knows. But it probably needs to be taken in the context that there are about 850 pilots on the list at the moment who are employed at VA, and they are about to announce more and that’s for 77 aircraft. Hard to see the need for another base opening which would again increase headcount.

[On Guard]

Sorry - to be clear I wasn’t implying that an aeroplane only doing SYD ZQN SYD is an efficient use of an aircraft. As you said - the aircraft utilisation where the aeroplane starts early morning in AKL and ends the day in AKL is a particularly efficient use of the frame.

The utilisation of VANZ crew (as well as VAI BNE) was particularly low especially when compared to what the VAA crew were doing. Based on that - I would think it’s more likely that Aus crew would overnight in AKL as opposed to starting a new base if the aircraft is schedule to start the day early in the morning in NZ. Having said that, with the opening of ADL there seems to be a push to reduce overnights? When things were ‘normal’ ADL had a lot of aircraft that overnighted - I wonder if AKL will have the same when things pick up, or if it’s more likely to be 3-4 which wouldn’t warrant a base.

Ultimately, until we see a NZ schedule, this is all guess work. The Aus based crew have been told they will be flying the Tasman - in the short term that’s what will happen. In the long term - who knows. But it probably needs to be taken in the context that there are about 850 pilots on the list at the moment who are employed at VA, and they are about to announce more and that’s for 77 aircraft. Hard to see the need for another base opening which would again increase headcount.

Any idea when they release Captain numbers? Do you think any more ac beyond the 77 or that’s it for a while?

[Goat Whisperer]

It’s all good saying it’s efficient to do SYD-ZQN-SYD, but that’s only 5 hours flight time for the frame.

It looks more likely that a Syd based airframe would stay on the international side, do a ZQN return from 10am to 5pm then up to Bali, arriving back as a red eye.

That sounds like excellent utilisation to me.

Any idea when they release Captain numbers?

Dunno when but I've heard 24 this year.

Do you think any more ac beyond the 77 or that’s it for a while?

The Silkair seven won't all be online until Feb or March. If demand is greater than what can be met there are still ex VA/TT airframes that could be reintroduced.

[dijical]

Tasman flying ambitions might have changed today for a few. NZ boosting its border charges from $20 to $46 from December 1. That’s the profit margin gone right there, if even that, in what was already a very marginal market.

So a return NZ airfare now totals about $250-$300 of taxes and charges. Renders low cost airlines on the Tasman unsustainable, great work Jacinda.

Jacinta? That's odd, I thought Australia imposed a border charge of $55. Or is that not right?

[Colonel_Klink]

Any idea when they release Captain numbers? Do you think any more ac beyond the 77 or that’s it for a while?

They don’t have the crew required for the Silk Air aircraft - so that’s next phase of recruitment. Given the first of the Silk Air aircraft arrive this month, with the last to arrive early next year, I think it’s fair to assume the Captain numbers will be released very soon, as it’s going to be a massive recruitment and training effort to get everyone through to ensure all aircraft are fully crewed.

It would be nice to think more aircraft might be arriving - but it’s hard to tell. JQ are saying they will be 110-120% of pre COVID size, plus throw Rex into the market and QF using the QQ Ejets. That is a hell of a lot of aeroplanes that will be flying around Aus next year. I think VA will likely hold at 77 aircraft, and if things are going well, the Max10s that start to arrive in 2023 will be further growth to the required numbers, and then you’ll see a phasing out some of the older aircraft that they have. That’s all pure guesswork though.

It’s all good signs at the moment. Who would have thought this is where VA would be 12 months ago.

[C441]

On the eve of the first anniversary of Virgin’s ownership by Bain Capital, the Brisbane-based airline has issued a new tranche of more than nine million A-class shares destined for a handful of its latest recruits.

The new shares rank the same as the $42.2m tranche issued earlier this year to recipients including the airline’s chief Jayne Hrdlicka, which just so happened to coincide with her comments (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/margin-call/virgin-boss-jayne-hrdlicka-issued-share-bonus-days-before-covid-death-comments/news-story/bbbee718702009bcd163dacdf92a39a9) that “some people may die from coronavirus” in the path out of lockdown.

Looks as though savings from EA 'adjustments' are going to a good cause.:rolleyes:

Margin Call - The Australian (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/margin-call/virgin-australia-execs-managers-issued-fresh-incentives-as-travel-returns/news-story/1ae434614b5548291d9d50c230493fbc)

[PoppaJo]

Quick cash grab. If you were wondering why the once Woolworths CFO who in a previous life did oversee about $50b in revenue, downgraded his job to Virgin, at about $4b, that’s why.

[DanV2]

VA counting down the days before they resume their International 737 (Short Haul) flying to NAN next month, with ZQN and DPS to follow in the new year.

https://twitter.com/VirginAustralia/status/1455370930050543620

[AerialPerspective]

Looks as though savings from EA 'adjustments' are going to a good cause.:rolleyes:

Margin Call - The Australian (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/margin-call/virgin-australia-execs-managers-issued-fresh-incentives-as-travel-returns/news-story/1ae434614b5548291d9d50c230493fbc)

At least they made some savings. The previous management who the media fawned over ceaselessly, took years to sign the EBAs they instigated and just about every one resulting in ZERO productivity gain and increased costs. But they'll all go on to their life-long gravy train of board seats on various companies.

I think Scurrah was probably on the right path but unfortunately his predecessor had set fire to the house and it burned down once PS entered - the only solution was someone like Bain to come in and it was always going to get ugly. But my understanding is that Jayne has virtually cleaned out ALL but one previous executive (and he was probably only kept so there was someone who knew where the bodies were buried) and to my mind, that sort of clean out was LONG, LONG overdue.

The company's previous management was led by a narcissist who thought his sh-t didn't stink but presided over billions in expenditure and zero profit in 10 years and a management made up largely of yes people and more bloody 'advisors' and 'leaders' of this and that than you could poke a stick at, all like a flock of seagulls fighting for a hot chip.

I note the airline is still operating despite losing all those 'essential' advisors at every level. Most of them were virtually straight out of high school and many functionally illiterate, writing garbage such as thinking the plural of aircraft is 'aircrafts' and working the regulation 53 weasel words into every sentence 'reaching out' and the rest of the vomit inducing rubbish. 9/10ths of them would struggle to articulate or recognise the difference between a 737 and an A320. The company was an utter mess and beset with archaic rules that thought it was OK for a CEO to sit in J/Class but not a Pilot, paxing across the country to operate the return sector with 200 people onboard.

The Bain era is probably an essential 'cleansing' that had to happen for the company to have any chance to reset.

[Low Pass]

Here come the Kiwis! Gonna be no one left for Bonza :}

[On Guard]

Does anyone know if any more awards to come or is that it?

[Low Pass]

Does anyone know if any more awards to come or is that it?

Not sure when the next bid import is. Hearing that they want to bring back aircraft like pre pandemic. Yet to see if VA are going to match QFs 100% pre covid capacity that they have announced

[PPRuNeUser0198]

writing garbage such as thinking the plural of aircraft is 'aircrafts'
I can't stand that either...

[bangbounceboeing]

Any mention of widebodies and a return to international long haul options yet ?

[anonfly]

I heard December/January for more awards. Bunch of awards went out to ADL base yesterday. Check captains said they are busy till July at least next year.
Nothing in pipeline for widebody as of yet. Or more correctly I haven’t heard anything.
I’m sure that could change in a heartbeat depending on how Australia goes on opening up to the world and whether that sticks. Might be better to sit on ones hands and let another winter pass. We could do a 180 in this country for all we know

[Talkwrench]

I can't stand that either...

Hey come on, cut them some slack. They're just trying to fake it 'til they make it!

Totally legitimate way to climb the corporate ladder.

[DanV2]

VA social media just posted on the TikTok of their new economy seats being installed on the ex-MI/SQ aircraft.
Looks like the 'new' economy seats are a off the shelf slimline design typically found on LCCs, with USB ports fitted and a place to put your tablet on the back.

[PoppaJo]

Very rare to see a airline reducing seat count also, normally it’s cram cram cram.

[On Guard]

Anyone know when these 7 a/c are slated for? Good news all around!

[PoppaJo]

I assume they are what remains of the Silkair NG fleet.

In a couple of years that puts the 737 fleet at 110-120 odd aircraft. Rex will just become some tiny irrelevant operation, bit hard to go up against this and make money with a few token machines.

Great news for many especially those on fleets like the ATR who sort of didn’t expect a chance until later this decade.

[43Inches]

I have to wonder what they will do with 110 airframes, with QF and J* going down the same road of lots of narrow bodies there's going to be no slots anywhere, or is that the play? As others have said the markets around Australia for particular aircraft sizes are limited, and the short/medium haul international routes all have protectionist governments who are not going to let 50 flights a day swamp their local markets.

[ThunderstormFactory]

I assume they are what remains of the Silkair NG fleet.

In a couple of years that puts the 737 fleet at 110-120 odd aircraft. Rex will just become some tiny irrelevant operation, bit hard to go up against this and make money with a few token machines.

Great news for many especially those on fleets like the ATR who sort of didn’t expect a chance until later this decade.

so does every ATR pilot have to be hired onto 737 before virgin considers external recruitment?

[non_state_actor]

I have to wonder what they will do with 110 airframes, with QF and J* going down the same road of lots of narrow bodies there's going to be no slots anywhere, or is that the play? As others have said the markets around Australia for particular aircraft sizes are limited, and the short/medium haul international routes all have protectionist governments who are not going to let 50 flights a day swamp their local markets.

I would guess international flying in the Pacific plus Bali.

[turbantime]

so does every ATR pilot have to be hired onto 737 before virgin considers external recruitment?
Every 777/330/ATR/VAINZ/Tiger pilot before external recruitment is considered.

[anonfly]

so does every ATR pilot have to be hired onto 737 before virgin considers external recruitment?


800 pilots have a right of return for 5yrs. All a little complex
The answer is yes and no. If a pilot bids for a position and then turns it down they are on an administrative freeze for 18months (locked out).
Also some pilots are working elsewhere and may have decided not to come back. Others have taken the redundancy and moved on. Others will be restricted by what bases are on offer. Ex VAINZ pilots will be required to move to Australia. So while there is 800 pilots in a pool the company can tap on the shoulder for the next 5yrs not all will take up the offer. The important date is October 2024 for any pilots that may be wishing to turn down a role as if they turn down a role after that date they would effectively be locked out for 18months and fall of the list come April 2026. It would interesting to see if Virgin re offers a position or would externally recruit.
Realistically I can’t see external positions being offered until after the 5yrs. 800 pilots is a lot of growth and retirements regardless of the mechanics involved with right of return.

[Colonel_Klink]

800 pilots have a right of return for 5yrs. All a little complex
The answer is yes and no. If a pilot bids for a position and then turns it down they are on an administrative freeze for 18months (locked out).
Also some pilots are working elsewhere and may have decided not to come back. Others have taken the redundancy and moved on. Others will be restricted by what bases are on offer. Ex VAINZ pilots will be required to move to Australia. So while there is 800 pilots in a pool the company can tap on the shoulder for the next 5yrs not all will take up the offer. The important date is October 2024 for any pilots that may be wishing to turn down a role as if they turn down a role after that date they would effectively be locked out for 18months and fall of the list come April 2026. It would interesting to see if Virgin re offers a position or would externally recruit.
Realistically I can’t see external positions being offered until after the 5yrs. 800 pilots is a lot of growth and retirements regardless of the mechanics involved with right of return.

The right of return is for 10 years I believe.

Those returning pilots maintain their GDOJ (seniority) number if they return prior to April ‘26.

After that date, all those pilots lose their GDOJ number, but still hold priority to return over an external applicant for a further 5 years except when the pilot does return in that case, they will have lost their seniority and now be at the bottom of the list for promotion or base transfer.

[MickG0105]

And in related news.

Virgin Australia’s chief of corporate affairs, Moksha Watts, quits after behaviour review
By ROBYN IRONSIDE, AVIATION WRITER
NOVEMBER 21, 2021

Virgin Australia’s chief of corporate affairs has quit less than a year into the role, amid an internal review of her workplace behaviour.

CEO Jayne Hrdlicka announced the resignation of Moksha Watts to staff on Sunday in an internal memo, which was seen by The Australian.

Ms Hrdlicka noted Ms Watts had taken the decision “in the midst of an ongoing internal review about her workplace behaviour”.

“She felt it was in her best interests and the best interests of the company to resign,” wrote Ms Hrdlicka.

“Moksha joined Virgin Australia in March 2021 and has done a significant and valued job with governments, key stakeholders and crafting the company’s sustainability policy.”

Ms Watts was one of six appointments to Virgin’s “executive leadership team” soon after the sale of the airline to US private equity firm Bain Capital.

She joined Virgin Australia after a seven-month stint with The Arnott’s Group, and previously spent four years with Qantas and Jetstar, where she got to know Ms Hrdlicka, a former Jetstar CEO.

The University of Sydney arts and science graduate also worked as an adviser to former Labor prime minister Kevin Rudd in 2013, following stints with Anthony Albanese and Jenny Macklin.

Ms Watts’ resignation from Virgin came after a significant turnover of staff in the corporate affairs department.

Since the sale to Bain Capital only one employee remained in the same role, with at least five others leaving the airline.

Virgin’s chief people officer Lisa Burquest would takeover Ms Watts’ responsibilities immediately, Ms Hrdlicka said in her message to staff.

“At Virgin Australia we work hard to ensure our workplace is a safe and positive workplace for everyone and we strive to live our values every day,” said Ms Hrdlicka.

“Grievances of any nature will be taken seriously and we follow due process in investigating in order to be fair to everyone involved.”


https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/virgin-spin-chief-quits-after-behaviour-review/news-story/30bc93b5e9fb8e99a96dfb44bd341189

[PoppaJo]

They need someone like that in Flight Ops Management. Send them in, everyone leaves, and finally for once they can start fresh again. Finally Finally Finally. Looooooong Overdue. We live in hope.

[SOPS]

This is where the plot has long being lost . She had an arts degree, was a labor staffer, sold biscuits .. and this made her qualified to do what in an airline? No wonder the industry is in a mess. And the only ones who get the big bonuses have no idea what an aircraft and its crew actually does.

[Paragraph377]

And in related news.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/virgin-spin-chief-quits-after-behaviour-review/news-story/30bc93b5e9fb8e99a96dfb44bd341189

Staff meetings would’ve been good though. Imagine all those Tim Tams and Monte Carlo’s being brought along! Lots of flair.

[Dehavillanddriver]

Poppa Jo, I know of one former flight ops manager who was made redundant who has written to the CEO and COO expressing concern about how flight ops is run and the culture in the department. He showed me his very brief, condescending response from the COO and a blank piece of paper showing the response from the CEO.

I am amazed that the COO has lasted this long

[galdian]

Staff meetings would’ve been good though. Imagine all those Tim Tams and Monte Carlo’s being brought along! Lots of flair.

Probably be out of date/time expires leftovers.

Wouldn't want to waste the good stuff on the pleb workers! :p

[AerialPerspective]

This is where the plot has long being lost . She had an arts degree, was a labor staffer, sold biscuits .. and this made her qualified to do what in an airline? No wonder the industry is in a mess. And the only ones who get the big bonuses have no idea what an aircraft and its crew actually does.

AND, the company has a long-standing habit of - as soon as someone shows they actually DO know something about airlines - out they go. Those without the necessary aviation background or rather, with ZERO aviation background, just can't stand to have anyone who knows what they're doing, hanging around.

This was the case under previous CEOs as well. You just need to look at the number of people who were shown the door while the MRB was in charge. To be fair, his only experience when it comes right down to it, was selling tickets essentially. Sure, people can be put 'in charge' of things or departments, but when those departments are well established and reasonably self-managing, the latter doesn't change much and the former gets to walk away and include that in their 'resume' when they likely never understood any of it at all.

[AerialPerspective]

Poppa Jo, I know of one former flight ops manager who was made redundant who has written to the CEO and COO expressing concern about how flight ops is run and the culture in the department. He showed me his very brief, condescending response from the COO and a blank piece of paper showing the response from the CEO.

I am amazed that the COO has lasted this long

I am too - I'm surprised ANYONE survived but then again, I'm not really. The person I think you're talking about is another that has had a meteoric rise and of all those in the previous management team, would seem that should have been the first to go.

I think I know who you might be talking about in terms of the former Flt Ops person - let's face it, if they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't want them around. That's not their way, first qualification is to enter a room in an upbeat voice and wish everyone a 'happy Monday', followed by a string of management-speak gibberish.

No aviation experience required.

[Paragraph377]

I am too - I'm surprised ANYONE survived but then again, I'm not really. The person I think you're talking about is another that has had a meteoric rise and of all those in the previous management team, would seem that should have been the first to go.

I think I know who you might be talking about in terms of the former Flt Ops person - let's face it, if they knew what they were doing, they wouldn't want them around. That's not their way, first qualification is to enter a room in an upbeat voice and wish everyone a 'happy Monday', followed by a string of management-speak gibberish.

No aviation experience required.


So true so true 🤣 🤣 🤣

[Dehavillanddriver]

Not sure who you were thinking of but the one I spoke to was well regarded by most as far as I can tell

[AerialPerspective]

Not sure who you were thinking of but the one I spoke to was well regarded by most as far as I can tell

Too many good people who could have taken that company into a fit financial state and contributed exponentially to its success were cast aside.

People I've known and trust in the industry who were a dead-set coup for VA to obtain and have work for them, even in project roles, because of their depth of experience and proven track record, were disposed of after being attacked by the incompetent, know-nothing 'high school' mafia (meaning mostly sh-t kickers straight out of High School who know nothing) and highly qualified 'Advisors' (qualified in highly aviation related academic pursuits such as 'arts'). I'm not against academia at all, I believe the purpose of any tertiary area of study is more about expanding a person's mind than the resultant qualification, teaching them to think outside the box so to speak. But, while those people existed in the past, they were always tempered and their influence ameliorated by professional airline people who knew the business, knew the mechanics of how it all fit together and had a grasp of what industry they were in.

Now, anything goes. Some of the people I've seen over the years came into senior positions with direct affect on operational performance and decision-making who's sum total aviation experience was working in the gaming room at a casino, being a crew trainer at McDonalds or working in a retail chain. Not that those people can't make good airline employees eventually, but you start them at check in or marketing, not as the head of a major department that has an affect on people's lives.

I suspect it's not just airlines though, but all through industry. Once narcissists and Dunning-Kruger types got into some positions of power, down went the quality of leadership and up went the salaries and the extent to which seriously senior people were utterly out of their depth. People who's ego runs a mile wide and their substance about a millimetre deep.

[DirectAnywhere]

There's more to this story. Former staff are speaking to the Australian so it's a hatchet job. Ms. Watts has pi$$ed off someone, somewhere, for some reason.

[Foxxster]

There's more to this story. Former staff are speaking to the Australian so it's a hatchet job. Ms. Watts has pi$$ed off someone, somewhere, for some reason.


i can’t see anything getting better when the chief people officer, and what a fecking ridiculous title that is, takes over. I have met only two people from HR that I would consider actually feeding let alone paying a grossly inflated salary to. Useless the lot of them and if anyone is going to suck up to management and do exactly what they say without question it is someone from hr. Given Ms Watts has left under a cloud, due to what appears to be behavioural issues causing everyone else in her team to leave, one wonders what exactly HR and specifically the head of it, ie the person now replacing Ms Watts, actually did to correct her behaviour and make sure she lived by the values the company no doubt spouts but clearly doesn’t live by. Oh except after everyone has left and they absolutely HAVE to do something.

oh, and there is also this…. Perhaps this goes some way to explain why Ms Watts, being a Ms and not a Mr was hired in the first place..

During her years at Bain, Jayne Hrdlicka was instrumental in promoting women's leadership both within the firm and the business community. She helped to launch (with Chief Executive Women) an Australian version of a major research study on gender parity that Bain has conducted for some years.Although the gender mix is changing in many companies, it will never feel enough until there is more visibility, she says.

"Qantas domestic and international has 50 per cent [women in top roles], with Jetstar and Frequent Flyer CEOs. So from that perspective we are in good shape. But we have got a big job in Jetstar. Our business doesn't have good balance in the executive team but great women through the business. We have to create the opportunities."

also interesting article noting all the Bain connections of the current leadership group.

https://www.consultancy.com.au/news/3512/bain-partner-dave-emerson-joins-executive-team-of-virgin

[SHVC]

Who give a flying F$&k what gender is in the role!! Best person for the job. I would hate being a women in this time, being promoted into senior roles then having to convince everyone it’s on merit and not your gender. I fly with females they’re pi$$ed as this current change is diluting the hard work they have done to get to where they are on their merit, not because of their gender.

[SHVC]

That’s kinda the point I was trying to make.

[AerialPerspective]

Well, this is the problem. Now they promote based on Gender and not Merit, and what I have seen as of late is absolutely appalling, I find it hard to take many female managers seriously anymore as most of them got there based on their gender and are clearly way out of their depths. This is breeding resentment towards females in the workplace, this is doing a serious disservice to all females who have worked hard for their positions. I am also seeing many men walk away from the workforce because of this as there is clearly no progression for them, and all their hard work and experience means nothing and they are overlooked as they are the wrong gender. Many are either starting their own businesses or leaving altogether. Employers are going to have very serious problems in the coming years!

I am all for gender diversity and the right person for the job - however, I hear what you're saying and have at least on one occasion been told in private about a job that was advertised "It's going to be a woman, so that the division meets its target of women in management." This in an organisation that has been a financial disaster.

I agree with quotas in politics and think the LNP is just dumb for rejecting it because in that realm, it is not a highly technical and critical task that is being carried out but one where we would want the most diverse set of voices contribute to ensure all sides are covered BUT, when it's something like a highly technical business that requires serious knowledge of the operations because people's lives are in jeopardy, it has to be the best person for the job.

The answer here, to achieve some form of diversity, is to institute programs that feed the aviation sector to encourage women to participate.

In the example I cited above, it was my impression that it wouldn't matter which woman it was, as long as the successful applicant was a woman - I think any woman would feel that that is not how they would like to attain their job.

[Icarus2001]

I agree with quotas in politics and think The moment they bring in quotas then I expect to see it across the board, no cherry picking. 50% taxi drivers to be women, 50% plumbers etc. Old mate AJ talked about 50% female pilots, no mention of 50% engineers to be women, or baggage handlers or ground staff driving the tug, Or 50% cabin crew and check in staff to be men. Oh no we want 50% women only in management roles and parliament.
All or none.

[TimmyTee]

I reckon I'd settle for even 5% to be hired to drive the poo-mobile (apologies for a lack of a more correct term, but this job seems to be almost exclusively the realm of men for some reason)

[Dehavillanddriver]

I totally agree with you there

[mates rates]

Timmy Tee it’s the honey cart!!

[Low Pass]

Hi,

Can anyone point me in the right direction with the schedule for future bid imports? Says a Memo will be issued at least 2 weeks prior yet hearing that there are imports the first Monday of each month for the foreseeable. Can any VA guys confirm this?


Thanks
(EX VA. Inactive Pilot)

[Logan31]

Any truth on NZ base opening once tasman and pacific flying ex Akl begins?

[anonfly]

Hi,

Can anyone point me in the right direction with the schedule for future bid imports? Says a Memo will be issued at least 2 weeks prior yet hearing that there are imports the first Monday of each month for the foreseeable. Can any VA guys confirm this?


Thanks
(EX VA. Inactive Pilot)

Latest update from Unions paraphrasing. “Company don’t know what’s the go. Will tell us some time next year in late January, early February in regards to network growth and the need for additional pilots.”

[Colonel_Klink]

Any truth on NZ base opening once tasman and pacific flying ex Akl begins?

Seems very unlikely…

[Low Pass]

Cheers thanks. The crewing for the new 7x737s will be the big import...just a matter of when these 7 turn up

[Mr Google Head]

If its cheaper to fly the tasman from NZ I reckon they will have bases there, otherwise probably not. Just my 2 cents.

Out of interest, does anyone know how big the Adelaide base is?

Announced approximately 50 pilots total currently; some expectations that it will be grown to 70-80+.

[Logan31]

Announced approximately 50 pilots total currently; some expectations that it will be grown to 70-80+.
any update on future bases for VA..or is it ADL mostly?

[Mr Google Head]

any update on future bases for VA..or is it ADL mostly?

Gold Coast is rumoured…but Adelaide was rumoured for (20?) years before eventuating. There’s a new rostering system coming soon which potentially makes things viable that haven’t been in the past. Haven’t heard any rumours nor would imagine any other possible bases other than Gold Coast. Even then it could be an opt in dual base with Brissy - if at all…?

[DanV2]

Bain Capital has acquired Ansett Aviation Parts according to a paywall News Corp (The Australian) article. Let the speculation rumour of rebranding Virgin to Ansett begin..

[Goat Whisperer]

Did you mean Ansett Aviation Training?

there's an unpaywalled article on Australian Aviation. Bain Capital Credit buying the sim centres.

[1A_Please]

Bain Capital has acquired Ansett Aviation Parts according to a paywall News Corp (The Australian) article. Let the speculation rumour of rebranding Virgin to Ansett begin..
Don't know what Ansett Aviation Parts is as it's not mentioned in the article. The article talks about the sale of Ansett Aviation Training to consortium. Article also points out that this is not Bain alone but a three-way consortium which makes no mention of linking up with VA in any way.

[SHVC]

Bain captial credit (was an arm of the US private equity firm separate to Bain Capital) also Bridget aerospace group and Arcadia Capital.

[Paragraph377]

Bain Capital has acquired Ansett Aviation Parts according to a paywall News Corp (The Australian) article. Let the speculation rumour of rebranding Virgin to Ansett begin..
That would be a shame if Virgin did somehow acquire the Ansett brand as Ansett did provide a superb first class service back in its day. Something Virgin is yet to master.

[Australopithecus]

What would be the point in throwing away 23 years of brand building just to resurrect something that went bust 20 years ago?Seriously…If anyone remembered Ansett. It would be the bitter taste of being dudded for their FF points.

[PoppaJo]

Ansett 3.0

’Formally known as Virgin Blue, VAustralia, Virgin Australia 1.0, Virgin NZ, Virgin Samoa, Tiger Airways, TigerAir, Virgin Australia 2.0’

Geez just call it Bain Airways and be done with it. They could change naming each 737 from beaches to naming them after Bain consultants.

[AerialPerspective]

That would be a shame if Virgin did somehow acquire the Ansett brand as Ansett did provide a superb first class service back in its day. Something Virgin is yet to master.

Ansett also had decent systems for rostering, flight operations, reservations, check in and load control and proper procedures. Ansett was a REAL airline not full of people that went around saying 'happy Wednesday' doing a little dance and asking how things are in your 'space' (going forward).

[AerialPerspective]

What would be the point in throwing away 23 years of brand building just to resurrect something that went bust 20 years ago?Seriously…If anyone remembered Ansett. It would be the bitter taste of being dudded for their FF points.

If that were true, Ansett Aviation Training would have changed their name.

My experience is that there's quite a nostalgia for Ansett, although I don't want us to get into this American thing of trying to re-create old, defunct airlines a dozen times over....... how many Pan Am's have we seen now and a year or two ago there was another one rumoured to be in the works.

As for 'brand-building', you mean taking a name from an already well known organisation, putting the word 'Australia' on the end of it, practically copying the logo and typeface of another company then paying exorbitant license fees to use that logo everywhere?? VA apparently can't even provide a coffee cup with the logo on it for their staff without having to pay a royalty fee for each individual item it is applied to, i.e. 100 cups, 100 fees.

Bain would save millions if they changed the name, certainly in license fees anyway. Given their mantra is not wasting money on anything they don't have to, it's only a matter of time before that 'line item' comes before a bean-counter then it'll be interesting to see if the first part of the name survives. At least they could buy the Ansett name only once and the old AN 'starmark' logo still looks pretty smart today, as does the typeface. Another iconic Landor design.

[Australopithecus]

If that were true, Ansett Aviation Training would have changed their name.

My experience is that there's quite a nostalgia for Ansett, although I don't want us to get into this American thing of trying to re-create old, defunct airlines a dozen times over....... how many Pan Am's have we seen now and a year or two ago there was another one rumoured to be in the works.

As for 'brand-building', you mean taking a name from an already well known organisation, putting the word 'Australia' on the end of it, practically copying the logo and typeface of another company then paying exorbitant license fees to use that logo everywhere?? VA apparently can't even provide a coffee cup with the logo on it for their staff without having to pay a royalty fee for each individual item it is applied to, i.e. 100 cups, 100 fees.

Bain would save millions if they changed the name, certainly in license fees anyway. Given their mantra is not wasting money on anything they don't have to, it's only a matter of time before that 'line item' comes before a bean-counter then it'll be interesting to see if the first part of the name survives. At least they could buy the Ansett name only once and the old AN 'starmark' logo still looks pretty smart today, as does the typeface. Another iconic Landor design.

The customer base for simulator training is completely different to the customer base of an airline. Who cares what the training organisation is called? The reason its still called that is the name is as good as any, and they don’t have to change the signage.

I take your point about paying Branson anything, but the fact is that brand awareness is what advertisers actually pay for. Ansett would have zero brand awareness in most people under 40.

I am also in no doubt that Ansett really was a first class operation as far as the passengers went. Too bad it was owned by people with an ultimately different agenda

[AerialPerspective]

The customer base for simulator training is completely different to the customer base of an airline. Who cares what the training organisation is called? The reason its still called that is the name is as good as any, and they don’t have to change the signage.

I take your point about paying Branson anything, but the fact is that brand awareness is what advertisers actually pay for. Ansett would have zero brand awareness in most people under 40.

I am also in no doubt that Ansett really was a first class operation as far as the passengers went. Too bad it was owned by people with an ultimately different agenda

Well, a brand is a brand and brand awareness is a pretty generic thing.

Look, you're probably right that it's been so long now, many people weren't alive when Ansett was still going. There is likely some value in the brand but it would have to be very cleverly handled in the transition.

However, like I said also, don't want to become one of those places where we're constantly trying to re-invent things from the past, which became part of the past for a reason.

I take your point about the agenda of the owners. My personal opinion is that Ansett was doomed the day Murdoch and Abeles took it over from substantial control (managerially if not shareholder wise) from Reg Ansett.

One was interested in using it as leverage for expansion into Europe and to patronise his transport empire and the other was only really ever interested in its media assets and associated businesses. When the chips were down years later, any of those assets which could have been divested to get the airline through bad times were gone and likely with nothing in the pockets of Ansett as a result of the divestment. Just look what happened to the DC-9s.

[SOPS]

Well, a brand is a brand and brand awareness is a pretty generic thing.

Look, you're probably right that it's been so long now, many people weren't alive when Ansett was still going. There is likely some value in the brand but it would have to be very cleverly handled in the transition.

However, like I said also, don't want to become one of those places where we're constantly trying to re-invent things from the past, which became part of the past for a reason.

I take your point about the agenda of the owners. My personal opinion is that Ansett was doomed the day Murdoch and Abeles took it over from substantial control (managerially if not shareholder wise) from Reg Ansett.

One was interested in using it as leverage for expansion into Europe and to patronise his transport empire and the other was only really ever interested in its media assets and associated businesses. When the chips were down years later, any of those assets which could have been divested to get the airline through bad times were gone and likely with nothing in the pockets of Ansett as a result of the divestment. Just look what happened to the DC-9s.

As an Ex Ansett pilot.. genuine question, what happened to the DC 9s? They were before my time.

[Paragraph377]

Well, a brand is a brand and brand awareness is a pretty generic thing.

Look, you're probably right that it's been so long now, many people weren't alive when Ansett was still going. There is likely some value in the brand but it would have to be very cleverly handled in the transition.

However, like I said also, don't want to become one of those places where we're constantly trying to re-invent things from the past, which became part of the past for a reason.

I take your point about the agenda of the owners. My personal opinion is that Ansett was doomed the day Murdoch and Abeles took it over from substantial control (managerially if not shareholder wise) from Reg Ansett.

One was interested in using it as leverage for expansion into Europe and to patronise his transport empire and the other was only really ever interested in its media assets and associated businesses. When the chips were down years later, any of those assets which could have been divested to get the airline through bad times were gone and likely with nothing in the pockets of Ansett as a result of the divestment. Just look what happened to the DC-9s.

Actually you are quite correct. The day Abel’s went to Toulouse France and ordered multiple aircraft type is the day that the first nails were banged into Ansett’s coffin. No airline failure can be attributed to one thing, but that was the beginning. A couple of the last nails in the coffin included Air NZ emptying Ansett’s cupboards and then the introduction of a $99 LCC. The rest as they say is history.

[Ken Borough]

SOPS,

Just browse bere: Douglas DC9 Australia (http://aussieairliners.org/Ansett%20Airways/dc9fleet.htm)

It will keep you amused for quite a while.

[RodH]

As Ken Borough has posted most of the DC9's were sold of in the early eighties when the B737-200's were introduced to replace them.

[1A_Please]

Seriously, we have had nearly 20 posts about renaming Virgin to Ansett on the basis of a consortium that Bain is a member of buying the training business that has continued to use the Ansett name. The poster was being sarcastic but, in true web style, it has been conflated as some form of truth and then diverged into repeating arguments from 2001 when AN went under. Let's just say there is ZERO evidence that Virgin has any intention to change its name. It was an attempt at humour.

There is also ZERO evidence that the training business will be integrated at all with Virgin. It is a profitable business that counts all 4 Australian airlines as customers as well as a number of international airlines. The consortium that bought it will want to continue that profitability.

[VH-ABC]

You’re looking to Pprune for straight talking, no nonsense journalism?

[Transition Layer]

As an Ex Ansett pilot.. genuine question, what happened to the DC 9s? They were before my time.
Pretty sure they’re still operating under the Cobham/NJS/QantasLink brand :}

[PoppaJo]

The Australian is reporting today a 2023 IPO, with Bain still holding at least half for the time being.

[43Inches]

There is also ZERO evidence that the training business will be integrated at all with Virgin. It is a profitable business that counts all 4 Australian airlines as customers as well as a number of international airlines. The consortium that bought it will want to continue that profitability.

Virgin mothership is still a part owner of VA so the name will not change anytime soon, more likely the Ansett name will be replaced in the other if any changes.

[Cravenmorehead]

Pretty sure they’re still operating under the Cobham/NJS/QantasLink brand :}
Oh dear that's a bit mean!!! I mean to say NJS no longer own Q_jet anymore.

[DanV2]

Virgin mothership is still a part owner of VA so the name will not change anytime soon, more likely the Ansett name will be replaced in the other if any changes.

5% stake only which has very minimal (if any) influence at the table.

[43Inches]

5% stake only which has very minimal (if any) influence at the table.

That 5% is so they can ensure they know what is happening at the business and that it complies with the Virgin Groups agenda. Then they can cut off any moves to ditch or trash the brand early on via legal intervention. What happened at Virgin America where Virgin group fought quite hard to get significant financial recompense when the airline moved to rebrand whilst still in contract. You have to remember Virgin group makes cash simply from the use of the brand, and the brand is locked in for x amount of years, now hidden behind closed doors as it's no longer subject to public disclosure.

[Icarus2001]

Oh dear that's a bit mean!!! I mean to say NJS no longer own Q_jet anymore.

I think you are confused. Perhaps mixing up the names.

[airdualbleedfault]

Oh dear that's a bit mean!!! I mean to say NJS no longer own Q_jet anymore.
I think the Qjet op is now owned by Kwantarse and called National Jet?
Yes its confusing

[aussieflyboy]

I think the Qjet op is now owned by Kwantarse and called National Jet?
Yes its confusing

I think it was always called National Jet and Cobham bought it, then sold/gave it away to Qantas. My understanding is that National Jet was flying Qantas passengers (Airlink) domestically prior to Qantas having a Domestic airline.

[PoppaJo]

Oh look MM is back running airlines again. All the Virgin Alumni ending up in Canada. :yuk: :yuk:

https://www.piquenewsmagazine.com/national-business/lynx-air-ceo-sees-room-for-all-amid-cutthroat-market-crowded-with-carriers-5008619

[Australopithecus]

She's going to get her derrière handed to her after she tries to weather a Canadian winter’s worth of de-icing bills. I think she held the door open for me at the Banff Springs hotel once. Small world.

[Icarus2001]

“We're not really about targeting or taking share away from our competitors, we're actually about enticing more people to fly and growing the market," she says.

Sound familiar? These guys all sing from the same hymn sheet but somehow it just never seems to play out the way they hoped.

Before taking a career break just before the pandemic struck, McArthur shifted to CEO of Virgin Australia's low-cost Tigerair Australia in 2018, where she assembled a management team that achieved gender parity.

So that was the best comment that they could come up with for her entire time at Tiger. Priceless.

[30/30 Green Light]

Wasn't the referenced "expert" in the Pique article ex VB/VA?

[Icarus2001]

Yes indeed. Virgin Blue, VARA and Tiger all benefitted from her knowledge and experience.

[Paragraph377]

And the arrogant and self absorbed Diederek Pen is also over there in Canuck land. Maybe Godfrey and Sherrard will turn up and it will be one big former VA/VB executive party? I hope these LCC’s have all hedged their fuel correctly as Brent crude hit $90 US per barrel a few days ago. I think it is $88 per barrel today. All you need is yet another pointless war in the Middle East and oil will crack the $100 per barrel mark again. Then we will see who the real CEO’s are.

[PPRuNeUser0198]

A recent segment on the globally acclaimed 'A Current Affair' aired a few days ago. Interesting comment made by Jayne at the 6.23 minute mark 'jobs are safe'...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNC0V5IYFXY

[Mr Google Head]

A recent segment on the globally acclaimed 'A Current Affair' aired a few days ago. Interesting comment made by Jayne at the 6.23 minute mark 'jobs are safe'...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNC0V5IYFXY

What’s so interesting? Are you suggesting jobs are not safe? Even if they weren’t…is the CEO going to say so on said globally acclaimed show 🤣

[PPRuNeUser0198]

Airline jobs are never safe. To make a statement of that nature during a global pandemic is being out of touch with reality. Will come back to bite I am sure.

[PoppaJo]

I see some of the departed Tiger A320s now sitting in Europe are coming back to VARA. Newer builds also.

[Biatch]

A recent segment on the globally acclaimed 'A Current Affair' aired a few days ago. Interesting comment made by Jayne at the 6.23 minute mark 'jobs are safe'...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNC0V5IYFXY

As usual a certain employee group doesn't make an appearance... its like they fly themselves!

[No Idea Either]

Hi Biatch, first I heard of this was here on Pprune….the oracle of all things aviation. You didn’t see any drivers because we weren’t invited….typical……not that any would’ve taken up an invite. Maybe management, but they don’t really count, do they.

[DUXNUTZ]

Heard from many ex-VA lately. Must be a bit of an attrition going on.

[Goat Whisperer]

As usual a certain employee group doesn't make an appearance... its like they fly themselves!
Biatch is offline

Perhaps that is because VA has a list of around 650 pilots they must offer employment to before recruiting externally.

They're not (at this stage) trying to drum up interest in working at VA as a pilot, and few ATPL holders are unaware of the company. It's an exercise is attracting retail/hospo staff to become FAs and ground crew.

[ngaio]

So NZ borders are opening shortly, has Virgin got any plans? I see they are doing Queenstown Ops’s in November, but nothing else. Seems like a missed opportunity. Any rumours?

[Cypher]

regular flyer (https://www.executivetraveller.com/users/regular-flyer)
Friday, 11 Mar 2022, 03:01:03 pmfriend just phoned to say he just found out that both his outbound & inbound flights to NZ in July school holidays, had been cancelled & told by person at Virgin, that all these international flights canned until Oct. Air NZ has similar timing of flight going over & qantas has similar timing of flight coming home. Wonder if Virgin is talking to other airlines. Loads must be awful. Plenty of people (1000s) have just had their travel plans disrupted (again).


https://www.executivetraveller.com/community/view/9936/virgin-cancels-all-flights-australia-to-nz-bali-fiji-u

[lc_461]

regular flyer (https://www.executivetraveller.com/users/regular-flyer)
Friday, 11 Mar 2022, 03:01:03 pmfriend just phoned to say he just found out that both his outbound & inbound flights to NZ in July school holidays, had been cancelled & told by person at Virgin, that all these international flights canned until Oct. Air NZ has similar timing of flight going over & qantas has similar timing of flight coming home. Wonder if Virgin is talking to other airlines. Loads must be awful. Plenty of people (1000s) have just had their travel plans disrupted (again).


https://www.executivetraveller.com/community/view/9936/virgin-cancels-all-flights-australia-to-nz-bali-fiji-u

I'm pretty sure that poster is BNEA320 and his various aliases that pop up over the years... take it with a grain of salt.

[Icarus2001]

Perhaps that is because VA has a list of around 650 pilots they must offer employment to before recruiting externally. My source tells me more like 250 pilots. Which is it?

[ngaio]

Thanks Cypher. A quick search on the Virgin online booking system reveals that Virgin is actively taking bookings for Fiji during March. Bali flights are scheduled from the middle of June. If those flights actually take place is another thing.
Just seems very odd to have such a big market that Virgin was a part of left unserviced. I believe it may have been close to 30% market share pre Covid. As they say “ you’ve got to be on the field to win the game “

[Icarus2001]

Okay thanks. I know two Tiger pilots now flying for a different company and about four or five Virgin guys flying elswhere. So do they still appear on that list? Seems to me that there will be a lot less actual pilots available to return to VA when and if they need them.

[Bumble_Pilot]

Could be off a couple but I counted 602 pilots still inactive. Hopefully all get the opportunity for redeployment but I do think it is going to take a fair few years!
some trainers are saying that within 18 months everyone who wants to come back will, but I can’t see that happening.

[No Idea Either]

Icarus

We have a ‘group date of join’ list (GDOJ) rather than a seniority list, but every one just calls it the seniority list. It is not a strict list but is the overriding factor taken into account for upgrades, transfers, change of type, etc. So if you’ve kept your nose clean then as opportunities arise it goes in the GDOJ order. Virgin, PAC BRO, VARA and Tiger were all on the same GDOJ list (pretty much in that order with some minor variations) when some of the pilot groups were made redundant. So if you’re on the list then you have the right to return in order of GDOJ, at your previous GDOJ position. All the redundant pilots still have access to Sabre and can put in bids for return. When positions become available, whether it’s a CMD or FO slot, then if you’ve bid for it and you’re next on the GDOJ list then it’s yours. Some pilots who have found other work have not put in bids yet. Some previous wide body skippers have opted for FO slots on the 73 just to get back in as the ‘right of return’ only lasts 5 years. After the five year period, for an additional two years (seven total) you will be accepted for a position as they come up but you do not get your original GDOJ recognised and you start on the bottom of pile. If it was me, I would be taking anything to get back in………just in case it slows down, doesn’t look like it will but you never know.

so in answer to your query, yes all the people who have found other work still appear on the list although many might not have an active bid to return in yet, for whatever reason. The only reason you drop off the list is if you officially resign but I don’t think anyone would be mad enough to do that until the ‘deed of return’ expires, just to keep the chance of the return up their sleeves. It will become a bit more strategic as time goes by as the music could stop again for whatever reason and some people could be left out, but that would be their choice I suppose.

hope that explains a bit.

[Bumble_Pilot]

I was under the impression in was 5 years right to return and another 5 on “hold file” not 2?
I didn’t see a Feb import, was there one?

[No Idea Either]

Yes, you’re right Bumble, 5 extra years for the hold file portion after the 5 year right of return portion…..my mistake.

[Icarus2001]

NO IDEA EITHER, thank you for your fulsome reply, I did already understand most of that but good to have it confirmed. So there is a very good chance that there are not 600+ pilots holding their collective breath to return to Bains Baby. Quite possibly significantly less.

[No Idea Either]

It’s impossible to know Icarus. There are still around 600 pilots that are on the list not re-employed yet by VA. Do they all want to come back, who knows, but I would think most of them would. A few of the ‘near retirement’ ex wide body peeps might not come back, especially since some of them are down the list and would likely be looking at an FO slot in Sydney or Adelaide. Bit unpalatable for some maybe, each to their own……..

[non_state_actor]

I imagine they would get most people back if they had a start in the next year or so but beyond that people will start to lose interest. QF are recruiting soon so anyone on the younger side of the equation would probably be trying to get in there.

[No Idea Either]

Non state actor

Agreed……..I’ve also heard rumours about numerous people looking at QF.

[Lookleft]

I’ve also heard rumours about numerous people looking at QF.

I would be surprised if they weren't looking at QF. Probably also JQ, Airnorth, Alliance etc.

[No Idea Either]

Lookleft, sorry I should have explained a bit better. The rumours that I have heard are that the people looking at QF are already employed at VA, not the redundant people, but yes, I would assume the ‘redundees’ (is that a word?…no) would be looking everywhere.

[DirectAnywhere]

And a new VA Chief Pilot. Discuss.

[PoppaJo]

Major surgery is needed in Flight Ops.

The Herald Sun have just put out an article highlighting the high number of people that have departed under current management.

[Lookleft]

Given JH's "Captains's pick" for a CP at Jetstar and the damage that individual wrought, I'm not surprised Virgin flight Ops is a mess.

[Angle of Attack]

Enjoy your new Chief Pilot at VA, no comment except, buckle up !

[-41]

7:00PM MARCH 23, 2022

Virgin Australia has lost a string of senior managers since its sale to US private equity firm Bain Capital as a result of the furious pace of restructuring and industry-wide job retention challenges.

Many of those who have left answered directly to CEO Jayne Hrdlicka, including chief pilot *Michael Fitzgerald, group medical officer Sara Souter, head of revenue Russell Shaw and his successor Paul Carroll.

Captain Fitzgerald had spent almost 20 years with Virgin after joining as a first officer on the Boeing 737 in 2003.

Although he declined to comment on the reasons for leaving Virgin Australia, it is understood his role had become almost unbearably difficult due to the Covid crisis and pressure to renegotiate pilots’ work agreements.

Late on Wednesday, it was revealed his job would be filled by Qantas’s head of fleet operations Captain Alex Scamps, at a date to be confirmed.

Virgin Australia also farewelled Dr Souter in September last year, Mr Shaw and Mr Carroll in October last year and February this year respectively, Ms Watts in January and head of airline operations and technology Brendan O’Kane late last year.

Dr Souter has since joined the Qantas medical team, while Mr Carroll returned to a previous role with AirAsia after less than a year with Virgin Australia.

Several other experienced managers have departed since the start of the year to the surprise and dismay of colleagues.

People safety and wellbeing manager Liv Hewitt left in February after 14 years with Virgin; performance and improvement specialist Natalie Maia departed after 8½ years; customer experience manager Caitlin Malone called it quits after 17 years, and team travel leader Kerri Homann left after nine years.

The intense pace of restructuring and push to return Virgin Australia to profit under Ms Hrdlicka was considered a factor in the loss of talent, with the airline’s owners understood to be planning to re-list the company on the ASX next year.

The timeline for the initial public offering was pushed out from late 2022 after the Omicron variant ravaged airline schedules in the important Christmas and summer holiday period.

Ms Hrdlicka recently pointed out that, since she took over as CEO, $300m in cost savings had been made through restructuring and new employee work agreements. She also indicated Virgin was in the process of filling hundreds of positions as air travel took off again in response to an easing of Covid restrictions.

For some former employees, fears of a change in workplace *culture were realised after Paul Scurrah was dumped as CEO when the New York-based Bain Capital bought the airline in November 2020.

One former manager said since that time the decision had been made not to bother with the annual employee survey due to the expectation “no one would come up with anything positive”.

But a Virgin Australia spokeswoman said the airline continued to “successfully build its team and attract great people” such as Captain Scamps.

“We are lucky enough to have a strong brand that people want to work with and for, and we offer a blend of the type of work, culture, focus areas and non-financial benefits people are looking for,” the spokeswoman said.

Across the leadership and management teams, turnover was considered “normal” at about 5 per cent.

Qantas had also experienced a high staff turnover in certain parts of the airline, particularly technology, where highly skilled workers were in demand in other industries.

Last month Qantas CEO Alan Joyce revealed Qantas had lost close to a third of its technology workers, due to the Covid crisis making the aviation industry a much less attractive employer.

In response, Qantas was offering the incentive of 1000 shares in the airline, worth more than $5000 on the current share price, providing the employee remained with the company until mid-2023 and the airline achieved its Covid recovery targets.

Across the Tasman, Air New Zealand gave its employees $1000 worth of shares in the airline last year, in recognition of the personal hardship they endured during the Covid crisis.

CEO Greg Foran, a former Walmart US chief executive, said one of the lessons that was reinforced to him over the course of the pandemic was the importance of a positive workplace culture.

“It trumps everything else. It allows you to operate, it allows you to build a great plan,” Mr Foran said.

“There’s no doubt that we’re seeing a little bit more turnover (in staff) in some of the non-airline areas but this is a wonderful business, a wonderful brand and the team that weathered the storm really well is looking forward to the bright side as we begin to reopen.”

[Renton Field]

Enjoy your new Chief Pilot at VA, no comment except, buckle up !

If you really mean “no comment’,and don’t wish to expand,can anybody else shed some light on what “buckle up” may mean?

[uknown2]

worked for JH back in a2milk and toxic and incompetent as ever. if u look at jhk, it was a total complete failure. now voz is all infected with her bad blood cells

[greenslopes]

Turbulence ahead!

[Paragraph377]

The problem with VA is that they need more ‘specialists’. Definitely not enough ‘specialist’ titles at the place anymore. Maybe they will rebrand pilots as ‘left seat specialists’ and ‘right seat specialists’?

[Australopithecus]

[QUOTE=Renton Field;11204829]If you really mean “no comment’,and don’t wish to expand,can anybody else shed some light on what “buckle up” may mean?[/QUOTE

maybe leopards can change their spots. Why don’t you report back to us in a year or so. We are seeing this as a win over here.

[Servo]

[QUOTE=Renton Field;11204829]If you really mean “no comment’,and don’t wish to expand,can anybody else shed some light on what “buckle up” may mean?[/QUOTE

maybe leopards can change their spots. Why don’t you report back to us in a year or so. We are seeing this as a win over here.

Damn that is all VA needs. Sigh. First JH and now this guy. Kicking goals at VA.

[crosscutter]

Frankly, it’s a win for AS. It sets him up. He’s a strange cat who has thrived in the deputy role and is the perfect foil to implement the direction set by JH. He would sell his family to be seen to be successful. He is a rubbish communicator, probably has Asperger’s, and will not be inspiring the troops. Only in aviation are ‘these people’ able to climb the ranks, but he has through nepotism and hard work. It is indicative of how the role of chief pilot’s has changed. Gone are the days where the role required leadership, influence and effective communication both up and down the chain. He is another puppet…he won’t be representing the pilots, he won’t have creative solutions to add…good luck…good riddance.

[PoppaJo]

Only in aviation are ‘these people’ able to climb the ranks, but he has through nepotism and hard work. It is indicative of how the role of chief pilot’s has changed. Gone are the days where the role required leadership, influence and effective communication both up and down the chain. He is another puppet…he won’t be representing the pilots, he won’t have creative solutions to add…good luck…good riddance.
The 'good people' do exist, some who would make some pretty good and respected CPs. However they are the smart ones, not stupid enough to even contemplate taking on such a role. These people are normally pushed out anyway, to make way for the likes that you mention. I have asked my much younger colleagues who sit beside me if they would ever take on management roles, or even the top job. Nobody is interested. Thats not overly great for the next generation, so the snakes that take these posts will continue to cycle in and out.

[Derfred]

Is Virgin looking for an IR manager? I’ll make sure NS is made aware of the “opportunity”.

[Thumb War]

Is Virgin looking for an IR manager? I’ll make sure NS is made aware of the “opportunity”.



Very good 😂

[Lookleft]

I have worked in two airlines where the executives thought that the solution to their problems was to bring in a Qantas pilot. I'm not meaning any disrespect as Qantas pilots in the culture of Qantas are very good at what they do. The problem occurs when you try and operate in a different culture to the one you have spent your entire career in. You can't just think that what has always worked in Qantas automatically translates into a new airline. Very few flight ops managers have the intellect to think outside the rigid boxes they have been used to and comfortable to be working in.

[PoppaJo]

Remember Tiger pulling in QF Alumni when it was grounded? Was the first thing they did. They didn’t hang around long once the initial problems got sorted out, headed back to retirement. Kept the regulator happy during the process, made a whole heap of cash, and off they went.

Really should have been a internal candidate here. However you will need to wait for a post JH era for that. Hardly known for looking after existing employees at any gig she rocks up at, always brings her own in. And they leave with her also.