Myeloma and aircrew

[air pig]

This has literally just popped up in today’s Times.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/raf-crewman-who-trained-prince-william-gets-payout-for-cancer-blamed-on-jet-fumes-6wr0htcr2

[etudiant]

Peculiar, jet exhaust does not seem to generate dramatic malignancy rates in the civil arena afaik. Do helicopters use some special sauce such as the phosphate lubricants seen as an issue in bleed air?

[Bksmithca]

Peculiar, jet exhaust does not seem to generate dramatic malignancy rates in the civil arena afaik. Do helicopters use some special sauce such as the phosphate lubricants seen as an issue in bleed air?
This is also being discussed on the Rotor site. The discussion there is focused on the winchman being in the open door during rescue operations. Civilian operators typically don't do winching operations

[Fark'n'ell]

Civilian operators typically don't do winching operations

Perhaps not in your country but they do winching ops here in NZ.

[OvertHawk]

Peculiar, jet exhaust does not seem to generate dramatic malignancy rates in the civil arena afaik. Do helicopters use some special sauce such as the phosphate lubricants seen as an issue in bleed air?


I understand that the focus of this is specific to the Seaking due to the engine exhaust / airflow combination which apparently created a particularly hazardous environment for those working in the door.

They were effectively sitting in the exhaust flow for long periods of time.

The exhaust gas path / airflow on other helicopters will be different (which is not to say that there may not still be a risk) but this particular case is based on Seaking (and evidence that UK MOD were aware of health risks to crew operating in the door).

[TUPE]

Gratuitous Sea King winching pic showing exhaust location vs cabin door.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1333/f813dca1_285a_4437_9831_005d6d7f5df2_1d28d36bbfdfbc78b192241 4a88fba4aa8a7fc11.jpeg

[dartman2]

Is this essentially the same issue as many 146 crew have suffered from?

[OvertHawk]

Is this essentially the same issue as many 146 crew have suffered from?

Not necessarily.

As i understand it the 146 issue is suggested to be from contaminated cabin air from the engine bleeds containing chemicals from the engine oils.

In the seaking case it is from breathing in the exhaust gases.

Whilst they may seem similar (and in fact may be similar) there are potentially significant differences as well. The bleed air gases in the 146 will not have been subject to combustion whereas the Seaking exhaust has - This will change the nature of what is being breathed.

Which is not to downplay the seriousness of either but they are not necessarily the same.

Also, I've not heard of Myeloma being diagnosed or reported as resulting from the 146 issues ( I stand to be corrected if it has been identified as arising from the contaminated air).

[NutLoose]

Interesting considering we used to operate and start Jags in a HAS, you would have two in there and as they were designed for single aircraft the jet eflux didn't go out of the blast doors at the back, only one engine was close. Your eyes were streaming as you were breathing it in.

[tucumseh]

A known hazard for many years. The HT leads in the radar Tx/Rx, immediately behind the intake fan, used to get caked with half an inch of eflux and cause corona discharge. You can imagine what that **** would do to your lungs.

[seer557]

As a fellow myeloma sufferer, I would love to know how they came to this conclusion. I fail to see how a firm/positive link can have been made.

Seer

[Cornish Jack]

Just a point of pedantry, the crewman most at resk would be the Winch OP, not the Winchman.
Oddly, this has raised interest, but a recent (3 days ago) report on the Beeb news page of a Reaper driver suffering PTSD, hasn't prompted comment.

[dagenham]

Is this essentially the same issue as many 146 crew have suffered from?

The issue with the 146 was the presence of organophosphates in the form of oil mist leaking into the cabin. This lead to acute neurological issues similar to Parkinsons etc. Given the 146 are heli derived engine cores i guess similar issues might be prevalent, but would need some follow up.

The implications of mists / fumes etc on human biology still remain very uncertain, for example myeloma, sarcoma, non hodgkins lymphoma seem to have some similarities interms of having some environmental precursors. Personally i feel the proper and systematic examination of cancer / neurological condition prevelance in aircrew is long overdue. Just look back through PPrune and see the number of obituaries that list cancer and it can't all be down to hard living in the mess or on det.

yours dagenham - cancer survivor, lightness added by removing stomach and half of my liver .

[RubiC Cube]

As a fellow myeloma sufferer, I would love to know how they came to this conclusion. I fail to see how a firm/positive link can have been made.

Seer
I’m also a fellow sufferer and I would love to know how widespread Myeloma is amongst the aircrew fraternity and whether there is a link.