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View Full Version : Surveillance Radar Approach - is this still available at any civil UK airfield ?


Mooncrest
3rd May 2021, 08:18
I haven't heard one of these in action for at least fifteen, maybe twenty, years. Leeds Bradford used to routinely offer them to runways 15 and 28 as they were decades ago. At first, half-milers with the Plessey 430 then one mile with the Watchman. The latter radar is still there but the old PPI monochrome screens are long gone. I guess any airfield which had ILS at only one end of the runway years back would have been in the same position, e.g. Bristol, Luton.

chevvron
3rd May 2021, 08:41
The AIP lists many airfields with this facility although if the airfield hasn't got a radar 'on site' it will almost certainly be a 2nm termination range so basically a cloudbreak procedure.
Controllers have to do a minimum number of SRAs per month to keep the C of C in their license valid.

2 sheds
3rd May 2021, 09:24
Quite misleading to refer to it as a "cloudbreak", a term that must be at least half a century out of date. It is what is is, an instrument approach procedure with an appropriate OCA/H and is as accurate as the controller and the pilot performing it!

2 s

callum91
3rd May 2021, 09:26
Most civilian airports no longer have them. Although in the north east Teesside and Humberside still do.

Capn Bug Smasher
3rd May 2021, 09:52
If I recall correctly we used to use Coventry for a SRA when I trained for my IMC rating in about 2010. I don't know if Coventry is open any more though. I seem to recall some drama or other about finances.

Double Hydco
3rd May 2021, 09:57
Did a very nice one, on a very windy day, into Aldergrove before the pandemic.....

Mooncrest
3rd May 2021, 10:11
Does availability of the SRA depend on the make and model of the radar, to any degree ? I believe the old Decca 424 and the Plessey 430 were geared as both general airfield radars as well as the SRA facility whereas the likes of the Marconi 264 weren't suitable for the job; something to do with the big blips, probably. I've never worked in ATC so please indulge any misunderstandings.

I don't know if the latest Raytheon, Thales etc. radars are approved for SRAs.

2 sheds
3rd May 2021, 10:13
Most civilian airports no longer have them. Although in the north east Teesside and Humberside still do.

It would be more accurate to say that quite a few civil aerodromes still do have them!

2 s

Jim59
3rd May 2021, 10:17
I think Cambridge still does them.

Nimmer
3rd May 2021, 10:41
As Stated controllers have to perform SRA’s regularly to stay current. Unfortunately a lot of airlines don’t want to do them, preferring an RNAV approach if the ILS isn’t available. If you want an SRA just ask would be my advice.

alfaman
3rd May 2021, 10:42
Does availability of the SRA depend on the make and model of the radar, to any degree ? I believe the old Decca 424 and the Plessey 430 were geared as both general airfield radars as well as the SRA facility whereas the likes of the Marconi 264 weren't suitable for the job; something to do with the big blips, probably. I've never worked in ATC so please indulge any misunderstandings.

I don't know if the latest Raytheon, Thales etc. radars are approved for SRAs.
To a degree, in that only certain radars were sufficiently accurate to use for half mile SRAs: not so much the size, iirc, more to do with the ability to accurately plot the position. The flight check regime for SRAs of less than two miles was quite onerous, from memory, which increased costs. With the improvements in approach aids over the years, the need for radar with that degree of accuracy diminished to almost zero, there are better/cheaper ways of achieving the same result, now - the equipment may be able to do it, but the odds of having the right ATCO in the seat if the need arises is pretty slim. The currency & recency requirements make it difficult to manage at the bigger units - passenger jets don't really want to compromise their approach for the sake of ATCO training/currency. These days, most ATCOs will do more simulated SRAs whilst initial training, than they'll ever do in the real world.

Equivocal
3rd May 2021, 10:54
Does availability of the SRA depend on the make and model of the radar, to any degree ?Absolutely - as does the processing of the radar data and the display system used.

The principal characteristic of any radar is its wavelength; the shorter the wavelength, the more accurate the picture can be. But with radar, everything is a trade-off. A short wavelength radar will be limited in range and the return is likely to be relatively weak, on the other hand, it will turn quickly and give a rapid refresh to the picture. The Plessey 424 and 430 are both 3 cm radars. At the other end of the scale the classic, or traditional area radar, something like a Marconi 264, is a 50 cm radar - long-range, relatively long time between updates and, at range, blips the size of sausages. In the middle, at 10 cm wavelength, are radars which commonly have been used for aerodrome surveillance. These days, 23 cm radars are quite common because they provide a good compromise between the old really long-range radars and those which are good for terminal areas and aerodromes.

Radars which are used for very accurate surveillance radar approaches need to provide an accurate picture to the controller which is updated frequently. This is traditionally was done using 'raw' data on a classical glowing phosphor tube. In a modern radar the raw radar data is processed and commonly what the controller sees is a position symbol which is where the radar thinks the aircraft is (or is most likely to be). There are a number of approximations that can affect the position of the symbol relative to the actual location of the aircraft - this is why, where SRAs are still available, they are only used for approaches to 2 miles from touchdown or thereabouts. Although I agree the term 'cloudbreak' is rather outmoded, the reality is that at this range and aircraft will be at about 650 feet above the runway and so can be useful to enable aircraft to become visual beneath a layer of cloud in moderately poor conditions.

Now that you've got me thinking about them again it brings back how much fun they were to do and it was very satisfying to do a half mile SRA in poor conditions!

Helen49
3rd May 2021, 11:14
The ability to provide SRAs and the termination range were/are determined primarily by the equipment. 'Talkdowns' require precise information and therefore the shorter the wavelegth of the equipment and rotation rate of the scanner are crucial. So a Marconi 264 with a 50cm wavelength and scanner rotation of 4RPM useless......big 'blips' and very slow renewal of position. The Decca/Plessy 424, wavelength 3cm and scanner rotation of 20 odd RPM [forgotten the exact RPM...... long time ago!], excellent renewal of information enabled accurate presentation of aircraft position. The Plessey 430 with a capable scan rate of 44 RPM...... even better! The problem with the short wavelengths being the susceptibility to weather interference. So even with all the anti-clutter devices SRAs could be a problem, until the aircraft was within the last few miles of the approach.

However the technical ability of the radar was only part of the story. The real accuracy was determined by the ability of the radar operator and the guy flying the approach. So airfields such as Bristol, Luton and Leeds Bradford probably offered most success by virtue of the bad weather experienced and the frequent experience of based pilots.

Mooncrest
3rd May 2021, 11:39
Some very detailed posts here - most interesting reading. I expect providing several successive SRAs to inbound aircraft was a real feat of concentration for the controller and probably quite tiring. Not much good for them if they're supposed to be on a statutory break! I hope that didn't happen.

I often used to hear the Approach Controller offer the SRA for controller training purposes and, in my listening experience, it was rare for a pilot to refuse. Useful for aircrew as well in order to stay current - the ILS or NDB/VOR approach may not always be available.

TCAS FAN
3rd May 2021, 11:53
Some very detailed posts here - most interesting reading. I expect providing several successive SRAs to inbound aircraft was a real feat of concentration for the controller and probably quite tiring. Not much good for them if they're supposed to be on a statutory break! I hope that didn't happen.


In the days before statutory breaks, and the word "stress" hadn't been invented, my record was giving 42 x 1/2 mile SRAs in a 11.5 hour duty day, less a 45 break at the local pub for a pint and a ploughmans!

2 sheds
3rd May 2021, 12:17
The Decca/Plessy 424, wavelength 3cm and scanner rotation of 20 odd RPM [forgotten the exact RPM...... long time ago!], excellent renewal of information enabled accurate presentation of aircraft position. The Plessey 430 with a capable scan rate of 44 RPM...... even better! The problem with the short wavelengths being the susceptibility to weather interference.

A minor correction, Helen - probably a typo - the higher rotation rate of the 430 was 40 rpm, in theory to cater for high speed aircraft on final, but in practice a useless facility as it tended to shake the console and the aerial apart. It was also self defeating as it limited the number of strikes on each rotation which was not good as it was a poor enough piece of kit anyway! Other factors not mentioned that contributed to its approval for 0.5 nm RTR were the short pulse length and narrow beam width which ensured accuracy - even if it did require considerable imagination to maintain the identification!

2 s

almost professional
3rd May 2021, 14:23
We stopped providing SRAs at EMA prior to my retiring in 2019, the reason being few airlines would do one at short notice for continuation training, Ryanair could accommodate only if ‘booked’ prior to the aircraft getting airborne inbound…..the club cessnas were willing but not overly representative! If the ILS was on maintenance most crew plumped for the NDB

Art E. Fischler-Reisen
3rd May 2021, 15:12
Shame you never asked us in our helicopter, we’d have done it.... :ok:

trafficnotsighted
3rd May 2021, 16:14
Conducted the last SRA in anger at yeovil westland in 2016, spent most of the time only doing them for currency.

Equivocal
3rd May 2021, 16:16
I think I've posted this before, but for anyone who cares, here's (https://mega.nz/file/uawwAKII#Ggmp7L0W9wROZN1nrsrWJ55nJRu90obiM0RVmf7wDHY) the manual that came with a Plessy ACR 430 in the 1970s - hope I'm to infringing the copyright too much!

The 430 was a development of the 424 - essentially it was a 424 with the addition of the high beam. Both, I believe, were originally designed for use on ships. Despite some peoples' reservations, I always thought it was a fun bit of kit although you had to keep it (both channels) tuned to get the best performance, and sometimes to tilt the antenna during an SRA to keep the aircraft in the pencil beam so that you got a solid blip. Hard to imagine a controller being allowed to do that sort of thing these days but it sorted the men from the boys and the women from the girls (sorry if I'm not allowed to say that any more)! Did many 1/2 milers in my time, mostly in anger (which meant there wasn't any need to do practices in nice weather).

almost professional
3rd May 2021, 16:25
My last ‘proper’1/2 mile SRA on a 430 was at Luton in the mid 80s, Finnair MD80 in a snowstorm on 08, he went around and Diverted to Stansted! The radar had a meltdown shortly afterwards…….

Art E. Fischler-Reisen
3rd May 2021, 16:32
Not quite on topic, but twenty years ago I was based at Kai Tak. A typhoon was in progress and the eye passed right through the Territory. As it did so the wind swung right round as expected. Many aircraft had already diverted or asked to remain in the hold, but a Middle Eastern airliner had taken two attempts on 13 and gone round each time. The crew were then informed that there would be a few minutes delay as the runway was being changed to 31; they were then given vectors for that. ATC then informed them that there was a further delay until the ILS came on line and to expedite they were offered a PAR approach to 31 instead.

The crew declined, saying that the aircraft didn’t carry PAR equipment! :eek:. Instead, they diverted....

2 sheds
3rd May 2021, 16:35
I always thought it was a fun bit of kit
...but as a surveillance radar, as opposed to its use for SRAs, it was rubbish. Poor range selection, underpowered such that precipitation plus suppressors killed the aircraft returns, and the manufacturers did not even include map data. And it would not detect the rear view of a Beech Baron on take-off!

2 s

Equivocal
3rd May 2021, 16:40
...but as a surveillance radar...I guess that was partly what made it fun, and all of the points you raise made it pretty challenging for SRAs also!

almost professional
3rd May 2021, 16:42
At Luton the 430 was only ever used for talkdowns, but on my validation the CAA examiner asked if I could use it to reposition the aircraft which had done my first run for the second……needless to say I failed miserably!

Helen49
3rd May 2021, 17:33
Several posts have described SRAs as challenging. I certainly agree! Juggling with the variable polarisation, long pulse/short pulse, FTC [fast time constant] aerial tilt whilst keeping up the RTF chat and keeping up with a high approach speed not to mention sorting out the blips from clutter! Challenging indeed. But as an earlier poster said, it was very satisfying knowing that your own skill had made a significant contribution. Sadly modern navaids, SRATCOH and the growth of the rule book took much of the fun out of ATC.......for me at any rate!!

BoeingBoy
3rd May 2021, 17:46
Have a look at the Instrument plates listed in the AIP for the larger UK airfields. Those offering SRA's will have dedicated approach plates shown.

I did one for practise at Chester/Hawarden last year but got stung for an 'approach fee' of £30. And I'm a resident!

almost professional
3rd May 2021, 17:58
growth of the rule book took much of the fun out of ATC.......for me at any rate!!

I second that…..

TRENT210
3rd May 2021, 18:17
Exeter usually offer them for controller training

snips
3rd May 2021, 20:03
Also Newquay have in recent history offered them for controller training. Gloucester still have an AIP entry for a SRA to 0.5NM. I think the modern radars with digital pulse compression have a "large" minimum range and hence the 2NM SRA.

ETOPS
3rd May 2021, 20:29
and to expedite they were offered a PAR approach to 31 instead.


In a similar vein ... Flying an Air Taxi Kingair into Dijon I was offered a PAR to expedite my arrival and readily agreed. On changing frequency to talkdown imagine my surprise and delight when I was instructed in rapid fire French :confused: Only possessing schoolboy French I was pretty relieved to breakout and see the runway - Zut Alors!

Mooncrest
4th May 2021, 07:14
I wonder if the SRA is still part of the Approach Radar course in any training organisation ? Is it an optional extra ?

Dont worry
4th May 2021, 09:50
I think Northolt still has an SRA approach. Did this a few time upon request.

alfaman
4th May 2021, 13:07
I wonder if the SRA is still part of the Approach Radar course in any training organisation ? Is it an optional extra ?
I've been out of the loop for a little while, but it was taught practically, & assessed, in rating training this time last year. No reason to think that's changed since.

Mooncrest
4th May 2021, 16:35
I've been out of the loop for a little while, but it was taught practically, & assessed, in rating training this time last year. No reason to think that's changed since.
Thankyou alfa.

terrain safe
4th May 2021, 18:33
Stansted will do them.

HershamBoys
4th May 2021, 18:48
I'd like to see the process of setting up the 430 by positioning the final approach line between the PEs from the two reflective markers either side of the runway, and then aligning it with a PE from a church, get through a safety case ! I also remember a controller doing a 1/2 miler to downtown Luton because he hadn't checked that the line was in the right place.
Also, it is worthwhile remembering that Engineering are working on the scanner before considering turning it on for a TOW alignment check...... Luckily they heard the turning motor come to life, and jumped off the ladder.
Also remember doing a 1/2 mile SRA for my validation on 'mad alfonse', the daily Baron arrival. Luckily he flew the ILS and ignored my headings.

SRAs today....no thanks, consign to dustbin of history and stick with PBN.

HB

almost professional
4th May 2021, 20:06
I'd like to see the process of setting up the 430 by positioning the final approach line between the PEs from the two reflective markers either side of the runway, and then aligning it with a PE from a church, get through a safety case !

HB

Setting the final approach line using the small screwdriver pinched from Tels! and I remember F-PN!!

BaldEd
5th May 2021, 02:18
Brings back memories of my approach radar training at Auckland International in 1978 using a Marconi 264 (50cm) radar with 2NM SRAs. Target was always one of the Civil Aviation Ministry's Piper Apaches (PA23) flown up from Wellington specially for us 'players'. After doing about 10 SRAs that day, I never did another during the rest of my career.

Spiney Norman
5th May 2021, 02:28
For bigger 430 issues there was always…….Basher Dave!
I wonder if the head gear was actually turned using a Ford Cortina fan belt, as was often alleged? Of course the 08 ILS installation was the beginning of the issuance of the UB40 for the poor old 430. Which, as I’m sure you’ll remember, decided to go out with a bang one night some years later….

Spiney Norman
5th May 2021, 02:33
Brings back memories of my approach radar training at Auckland International in 1978 using a Marconi 264 (50cm) radar with 2NM SRAs. Target was always one of the Civil Aviation Ministry's Piper Apaches (PA23) flown up from Wellington specially for us 'players'. After doing about 10 SRAs that day, I never did another during the rest of my career.

Jeez! That must have been fun! My experience of the 264 never included 2nm SRAs but the primary blip size must have been around a nautical mile wide!

Talkdownman
5th May 2021, 08:37
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/640x480/img_6439_a2df4fef470c98ae06045f24b6640d4aee38712c.jpeg
SRAs are no longer available at Lasham...!

Mooncrest
5th May 2021, 09:08
SRAs are no longer available at Lasham...![/QUOTE]
A sad sight but a good innings. I hope a museum or at least somebody's back garden awaits.

Apart from the 424 and 430, which of the other older radars were approved for SRAs. Plessey AR1, AR15, Marconi S511, Cossor ACR6 - any of these ?

almost professional
5th May 2021, 09:32
Have used both AR15 and S511 for 2 milers

Get me some traffic
5th May 2021, 11:08
Cossor 787, Plessey Watchman. Both for 2miles.

TelsBoy
5th May 2021, 11:52
Did one at Edinburgh yonks ago (2008-ish IIRC) when the Watchman was still there. Changed days...

spekesoftly
5th May 2021, 13:08
Have used the following, all approved for SRAs terminating at 2nm.:-

Plessey AR1, Marconi S232, S264, S511, and Raytheon ASR10

(But I preferred the accuracy of half mile SRAs using the 424 and 430, despite all their foibles!)

TiPwEiGhT
5th May 2021, 13:15
My last SRA was into Scasta in 2011 roughly. It was a totally new procedure to the Norwegian crews I was flying with there whilst we were on "loan" to Bristow UK. Jolly good fun! We used to practice them in to RAF Leuchars on training flights in Robinson R22s moons ago - think the controllers got bored due to the low ground speed we produced.

Mooncrest
5th May 2021, 15:31
Plenty of capable radar systems out there, with varying degrees of capability - 2 miles, 1 mile, half mile etc. I swear I used to see the LBA 430 get faster and faster as the approaching aircraft got nearer!

Is there any preference for type of display for an SRA or is not important ? We have had the traditional round PPI display with orange or green returns and maps, then the likes of FR and Barco raster displays and now what appear to be fairly ordinary colour PC monitors.

oldandbald
5th May 2021, 16:53
ACR430 SPEED
The 430 did have two speeds , the faster one giving a faster update on the "blip" position. At Luton we didn't use it as I recall it had a serious effect on the scanner which you did not want failing . I thnk we even taped the switch in the slower position. As another aside about the same time that the 08 ILS was installed the radar head was badly damaged when it caught fire,( was it
suicide ?)

HershamBoys
5th May 2021, 18:32
We also did offset SRAs to 2 nm on 08 to avoid Caddington using the AR1. As far as I remember, on the 430, yes, we stayed on the slower speed, but moved the antenna angle up and down to (a) initially get over the PEs, and find the target, and (b), rapidly drop it again once clear of the PEs to keep the target in coverage.
HB

almost professional
5th May 2021, 19:04
Do I remember correctly in that even with the ILS available on 08 we had to do the offset SRA when WX was above certain minima?

Mooncrest
5th May 2021, 19:08
Interesting to note that Controller and Tels adjustment of the radar was a thing back in the day. Probably wasn't allowed then but I'd be amazed if it happened now (apart from display stuff like range rings, colour contrast etc). Two settings only - factory and wrong!

Spiney Norman
5th May 2021, 19:11
I think you’re right. And, of course, there was the strobe on the hangar at Dunstable.

alfaman
5th May 2021, 21:48
Do I remember correctly in that even with the ILS available on 08 we had to do the offset SRA when WX was above certain minima?
I remember that being in the book, but for some reason, there was always a little puff of stratus at around 900' when we were on 08 iirc ;)

chevvron
6th May 2021, 07:10
Jeez! That must have been fun! My experience of the 264 never included 2nm SRAs but the primary blip size must have been around a nautical mile wide!
In the '70s, Glasgow only had a 264 so all SRAs were done on that (2nm only)
As regards termination range, it depends on what 'setting up' markers are installed and whether they are simple 'reflectors' or they generate an electronic signal which 'breaks through' MTI.
For a half mile SRA, you need a marker either side of the runway at the touchdown point (plus a minimum refresh rate of 15(?) rpm). The markers must show permanently whether or not your radar has MTI.
For a 1nm SRA, you must have one or more markers on the runway centreline but they do not need to be permanent so you can check the setup on 'raw' radar then select MTI.
For a 2nm SRA, no markers are required.
In this latter case, when using Pease Pottage radar on Farnborough LARS East, I often watched aircraft in the circuit at Shoreham down to just above ground level according to their altitude readouts; the radar being about 350ft amsl just south of Gatwick looks through a gap in the South Downs and it would be perfectly feasible to do a 2nm SRA to runway 21 (threshold elev 7ft amsl) using it even though it is a long way from the airfield.

chevvron
6th May 2021, 11:40
PAR was fundamentally different in that it provided an electronic glidepath and thus had the same minima as Cat 1 ILS.
I did my last PAR in 2001; after that the thresholds moved so without a complete and expensive setting up flight check which wasn't necessary as we had ILS being installed for the new thresholds, we couldn't use it any more. Mind you we already had a LLZ/DME on one end and when that was installed, I made sure the touchdown point was the same as the PAR so we could do a hybrid approach; the pilot would follow the LLZ guidance while the PAR controller gave him instructions to maintain the glidepath.
My last SRA was 30 Nov 2008, the day I retired as an ATCO and 2 weeks before I became a FISO.

HershamBoys
6th May 2021, 12:56
Interesting to note that Controller and Tels adjustment of the radar was a thing back in the day. Probably wasn't allowed then but I'd be amazed if it happened now (apart from display stuff like range rings, colour contrast etc). Two settings only - factory and wrong!

The RDPS we possessed enabled individual controllers to make adjustments to the settings of their Barco displays, which were then saved under an individual log in. At HOW/TOW you logged out and in, and away you went. Ther were some advocates for standardisation who advocated a single setting, but some ATCOs settings were so appalling colour coordinated and quirky that it was better to retain the option. You could always adjust individual settings to suit at any time. Anyway, imagine trying to get the unit's ATCOs to agree on a standard setting......

chevvron
6th May 2021, 16:12
chevvron (https://www.pprune.org/members/124152-chevvron)

I retired in 2016. Usually I worked as an RW controller. Our rules are different from yours, and we had to use the PAR screen for every approaches (ILS I, II, III), only the phraseology was different. Now on the PAR screen, you can have information from ADS-B, MLAT, etc.
We had the CR62 preceded by the SLA1; never got SLA3c and as we were becoming a civil airfield, never got RPAR but knew all about the 'teething troubles' from Odiham.

sheepless
8th May 2021, 03:45
SCATSA, many years ago, usual Shetland day with a gentle breeze. Carrying out an SRA for the local Islander. Aircraft got to 4 miles and stopped - after repeating the range height etc a couple of times I asked if he was going to stay there all day. Said he would move on shortly but was watching my wife, on the roof of our house, trying to catch a sheet that had departed the washing line.

eastern wiseguy
8th May 2021, 14:54
Did a very nice one, on a very windy day, into Aldergrove before the pandemic.....
We did heaps of them for the resident squadrons. Also, we had to do one for validation with a fixed-wing aircraft. A few years ago though.

ATCO Two
12th May 2021, 08:10
I still remember JC's SRA "phraseology" at Heathrow. "Range 2 miles, I cannot assist you further, turn right 90 degrees and transmit for DF."

chevvron
12th May 2021, 08:50
SCATSA, many years ago, usual Shetland day with a gentle breeze. Carrying out an SRA for the local Islander. Aircraft got to 4 miles and stopped - after repeating the range height etc a couple of times I asked if he was going to stay there all day. Said he would move on shortly but was watching my wife, on the roof of our house, trying to catch a sheet that had departed the washing line.
Came in one morning at Sumburgh, wind calm. During the night, Cyril (Loftus) had opened up for a Loganair Islander. Wind was about 320/50kt so the pilot elected for a 'straight in' over Sumburgh Head rather than being blown towards the hill if he followed the sodiums.
Took him ages; he said even showing 95kt on the clock, the runway was still going away from him!!

Tinstaafl
18th Jun 2022, 03:09
More than once when I flew in Shetland I've had 100kt winds at 1000'.

ShyTorque
18th Jun 2022, 23:51
When I was training for my U.K. helicopter IR there was little or no wind. On the day of the test things got delayed by eight hours for operational reasons and it was dark when we took off. By then a deep low was approaching and by the time I got to the NDB to enter a hold the 2,000’ wind was over 60kts and increasing. For a jet that wouldn’t have been a big problem but for a helicopter with an IAS of 120 kts that called for some very large drift corrections.

The examiner then decided he wanted to simulate an engine failure during positioning for the ILS approach. Due to the weight we were at (3 POB), operating the “training mode” switch for the OEI resulted in an IAS of less than 100 kts and due to the increasing wind velocity, an approach ground speed of just 17 kts! Trying to fly an accurate ILS at that speed in turbulence was “interesting”. Going around OEI would have been backwards…..

We had to abandon the sortie, refuel and wait for the wind to die down. That was one very long day!

Interesting to hear how a controller giving an SRA would have dealt with that approach situation.

radarman
27th Jun 2022, 18:29
I seem to remember In the dim and distant past of the early '70s the military Type 82 area radar was used for SRA's (well, a couple anyway). Not sure of the details, or indeed the veracity, but the story I heard was of a crap day at RAF Waddington, ILS unusable and AR1 radar out of service following a fire. Two or three Vulcans preparing to divert as weather well below minima and no approach aids. Suddenly one of them appears out of the mist and lands. Squadron commander makes enquiries to ATC and is told that Midland Radar "talked them down". Shortly afterwards a second one lands. Squadron commander phones Midland Radar supervisor to express his thanks, saying he didn't know Midland could do SRA's. MR supervisor denies all knowledge as the T82 is a long range (140nm) area radar unsuited and uncalibrated for such tasks. Curious, he goes down to the Waddington CAC console and is horrified to see the controller vectoring a third Vulcan down a hastily drawn chinagraph line in a well-meaning attempt to save Bomber Command the embarrassment of diversions. Controller rapidly relieved from duty and marched into the office for interview without tea or biscuits.
Lovely old chap JC, but somewhat eccentric. A keen horseman, and I believe used to run the village Post Office. Last saw him at RAF Porters Way about '74 driving a bright orange MG Midget.

chevvron
28th Jun 2022, 11:54
I remember a notice saying 'The Midland Radar Overhead Starts Here'; it was at Port Stanley.
But seriously, the T82 radar itself was 'gated' to cut out PEs because it was not equipped with MTI and totally unsuited for close in SRAs because it was originally designed as an Air Defence radar, especially as it had a slow rotation rate about of 8.3 rpm so its 'refresh rate' between sweeps must have been frightening.
Note I'm not saying it couldn't have been done; just that there must have been other radars available (eg Scampton, Cranwell, Wittering) which would provide a much more successful service but then any controller with a bit of initiative would attempt to help in an emergency.
I'm not sure if Waddington even had an ILS in those days ('70s) but it would almost certainly have had a PAR and an enterprising controller at Midland could easily have drawn a chinagraph line then vectored the inbound aircraft towards that line so that it could be picked up by the Waddington PAR and the Talkdown controller could have completed the approach