Tristars the continuing saga

[NutLoose]

Details of the court case to get them removed from Bruntingthorpe, It does not look good for them

https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Comm/2021/88.html

One interesting point

During the calendar year 2019 Mr Steven made a number of visits to the Aerodrome with the US Navy in pursuance of the US Navy Contract. Mr Walton was fully aware of this and at no stage did he mention to Mr Steven that the Tristars had to be removed from the Aerodrome by the Fifth Defendant by any particular date. According to Mr Steven, the Sixth Defendant purchased the Tristars as an investment opportunity, not as scrap. Three of them were to be restored to service as mid-air refuellers, to provide additional “probe and drogue” aerial refuelling capacity to the US Navy and Marine Corps tactical aviation and for many NATO/allied aircraft which use this type of refuelling system.

In relation to the Assignment, the FAA register is publicly accessible, and Tristar Air submitted that the Claimants could at any time have checked that register to ascertain ownership. It was always the intention of Tristar Air to renovate three of the Tristars with the remaining three being cannibalised for spare parts. The time estimated to return the Tristars to service is six months.

In June 2018 Tristar Air placed a bid for a contract with the US Navy (the “US Navy Contract”) which was announced as being successful on 18 April 2019 and plans for the refurbishment began. However, after a legal challenge, the award of the contract was terminated on 7 August 2019, Tristar Air being told of this only on 7 November 2019. Tristar resubmitted their bid on 20 July 2020, however Mr Ghaffar informed me of recent developments, namely that the resubmitted bid was disqualified because one of their sub‑contractors submitted their documents one hour after the deadline. Their protest against disqualification was denied on 11 December 2020, but Tristar intends to appeal against that denial, the US Navy Contract having not yet been awarded.

[Asturias56]

"the award of the contract was terminated on 7 August 2019, Tristar Air being told of this only on 7 November 2019."

What??? they weren't on the phone every day checking with the US??

[Cat Techie]

Nutlosse. Mr Spoors never did proper storage checks on those beasts.. I am an LAE so do not filibuster bull on me as I will call your bluff. They are dead unless Gary throws dosh into them. He never has.

[Fortissimo]

I am an LAE so do not filibuster bull on me as I will call your bluff.

What is a filibuster bull? Is it an engineering term? (Genuine question, I have not come across this expression before and wish to understand.)

[mopardave]

What is a filibuster bull? Is it an engineering term? (Genuine question, I have not come across this expression before and wish to understand.)

I always thought it was a political term.........oh well, every day's a school day.

[Cat Techie]

I always thought it was a political term.........oh well, every day's a school day.
Those Tristars are politics, not engineering. Have they been under proper storage checks? That involves inhibiting engines or running them. Neither? There is your answer. I know too many people that worked with the owner of them. I would not work for him. I am a licenced aircraft engineer. Are most questioning my views drivers?

[NutLoose]

Don’t forget I’m an LAE too. :) totally agree, I bet they had few if any anti det runs on them either. I am simply posting the findings. Totally the wrong place to store them too, they should have gone out to the desert to have any chance of a second life, I remember the VC10s at Abingdon and the shocking state of those after “storage”

[mopardave]

Those Tristars are politics, not engineering. Have they been under proper storage checks? That involves inhibiting engines or running them. Neither? There is your answer. I know too many people that worked with the owner of them. I would not work for him. I am a licenced aircraft engineer. Are most questioning my views drivers?
Ha ha......no mate.........I wish I was/had been! Just didn't get the use of the word in that context. But no matter. It seemed like a great idea but somewhat flawed.........shame. I think the word "storage" can mean all sorts. Did anyone actually think they might fly again.......hence the somewhat casual approach to "storage". Thanks to Nutty for appraising us of the situation.

[Davef68]

Have posts been deleted? That seemed to escalate quickly.

[212man]

I saw the maiden flight of the first conversion by Marshall's in 1985, when doing my Flying Scholarship with them.

[BEagle]

Quite how anyone could have thought that those ex-RAF TriStars would ever fly again, yet alone as 3-point tankers given that they'd never done so before, is frankly astonishing.

As for Marshall and the TriStar? Remember the ZD949 scandal:

October 2006 - Marshall Aerospace is awarded a £22M contract to upgrade the RAF TriStars' avionics and FMS including a 'glass cockpit' as the 'MMR upgrade'. This should have been a relatively low-risk programme as it used elements of the C-130 cockpit upgrade already underway for the RNAF.

November 2007 - ZD949 arrives at Cambridge for the trial installation with a planned completion date of Q3 2008 at which time the second TriStar would begin conversion.

2008 came and went.

2009 came and went.

January 2010 - ZD949 finally makes its first flight with the MMR upgrade.

October 2010 - SDSR indicates that the TriStar will start to leave RAF service in 2013; TriStar MMR programme is to be discontinued.

December 2010 - After 100 hours of flight test, ZD949 finally passes MoD review and is due to be back in service in Spring 2011.

2011 - Due to the change in out-of-service date now planned for the TriStar and with the A330MRTT due in service by the end of the year, ZD949 remains at Cambridge in a pristine state under 'storage' and is to be 'reduced to spares' - a euphemism for being scrapped - as it would be too expensive to convert it back to its original state.

October 2011 - A330MRTT now 'Voyager' fails to meet release to service date; now expected to be 'sometime in January 2012'.

January 2012 - Voyager still not in service.

February 2012 - Voyager still not in service.

March 2013 - Voyager still not providing an AAR service; 3 x VC10 have to stagger on until Sep 2013.

September 2013 - VC10 retired, but Voyager still not providing a complete AAR service.

March 2014 - TriStar retired, but Voyager still not providing a complete AAR service.

May 2014 - ZD949 finally scrapped having never been returned to RAF service during a wasteful, expensive 7 year programme.

[DuckDodgers]

ZERO surprises in any of this beside how many got fooled by this entire debacle. The ongoing case brought against Tristar Air LLC and Tempus Applied Solutions LLC by AGD (link below) suggests you really have to question due diligence across the board, it was non viable from day one. What a gross misuse of NAVAIR's time and resource, let us hope USTRANSCOM and AMC don't fall into a similar situation. It will be interesting to see if Strategic Airborne Operations JV LLC can deliver the U.S. Navy High Endurance Electronic Warfare Jet (HEEWJ) contract, they've survived one post award challenge but given the requirements and the price it's going to be interesting!

https://www.docketbird.com/court-cases/Agd-Systems-Corporation/flsb-9:2020-bk-18695

[N707ZS]

Couldn't find any search results as to what if anything has happened to the Tristars.

[Jhieminga]

There are some photos from the end of December and a few days ago in this thread: https://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=86861
In short: ZD951 is on the scrapping pan slowly being stripped of various parts (at least that's my interpretation).

[Davef68]

There are some photos from the end of December and a few days ago in this thread: https://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=86861
In short: ZD951 is on the scrapping pan slowly being stripped of various parts (at least that's my interpretation).

Nice green gunk!

[N707ZS]

Yes looks like an end to an expensive episode.

[NutLoose]

What a waste, wrong place for storage, the inevitable result. I watched a 767 at EGNX that had overhauled engines fitted and had been overhauled deteriorate out on a pan, it only did one or two trips and was sadly broken up where she stood eventually.

[Shaft109]

By coincidence I flew over Bruntingthorpe a fortnight ago and had a good look at the Tristars - they are a total mess as in from 1500' they were covered all over in that green gunk. They also appeared to all be missing the inboard aileron (flaperon?) over the engines.

[NutLoose]

These were them back in the end of August 2018, they didnt look to bad, a wash would have got rid of the green slime on the latest pictures.

https://live.staticflickr.com/1935/43949493835_a6b9fae62b_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/1847/43048927280_fa47a26f22_c.jpg



https://live.staticflickr.com/1942/44810067822_7634da242f_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/1954/44859768171_fb93e68fab_c.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/1847/43949408725_af37d6e58b_c.jpg

[Video Mixdown]

These were them back in the end of August 2018, they didnt look to bad, a wash would have got rid of the green slime on the latest pictures.
To what purpose? They’re old, obsolete and useless. It’s surely a good thing that they’ll now be recycled to make something of use.

[NutLoose]

It would have been nice to see one in a museum, but what I was trying to get across, is don't judge a structure by its external appearance, often the green grime etc comes off with a simple wash showing the aircraft finish in a better light..



..

[Jhieminga]

This was in March 2016. The paint had faded but apart from that the airframes appeared to be in a decent state.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51787350873_aa3e018825_c.jpg
Tristar_1 by Jelle Hieminga (https://www.flickr.com/photos/102686263@N02/), on Flickr

[valveclosed]

The real nice thing would have been to get one into a museum somewhere. Even a flight deck, but there is no interest from anywhere apparently. I know we can’t save every type the airforce has flown but the TriStar was a workhorse that was usually overlooked by the powers that be, generally due to misunderstanding of its capabilities.
Shame they will be no more in a few months

[NutLoose]

Agreed a walk in or viewable Cockpit display at one of the RAF museums would have been superb, having been in the RAF Tristar cockpit it was fascinating, if Cosford they could have done it from the second floor viewing platform without taking up much if any floorspace.
Otherwise another important RAF type will disappear into history, and it was important in the RAF history from the Falklands through the Gulf Wars to the tanking capability.
But early days, there may be plans to display one, the sectioned frame of the 747 in a museum is superb exhibit, see.

.https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co30021/section-of-a-boeing-747-1973-aircraft-aeroplanes-passenger-aircraft-airliners-fuselages



..

[Jhieminga]

First Tristar is being scrapped, photos from yesterday are here: https://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=87074

[Jhieminga]

ZD951 and ZD948 are gone, ZD950 is being scrapped right now. See the updates page on T&L.

[Jhieminga]

Looks like the last Tristar is now also gone. Based on the photos I've seen on Twitter, at least one if not more of the flight decks have been saved.

[Cat Techie]

Did the RAF / Marshalls ever do a CPCP on them? Dinatrol or AV08/15? Never heard of it did they? Rot boxes inside if they were not. Certainly over the last few years. Gary do a proper storage procedure with them IAW Lockheed manuals?

[NutLoose]

Doubtful, they were more or less abandoned, and with no manufacurers support they were pretty much doomed.

[GeeRam]

The VC-10 got chopped up a few days ago as well.

[Jhieminga]

Yes, ZD241 was scrapped yesterday, 20 April 2022. I suspect a few parts will be spared but don't have any details yet. I've got some links on the news page on my site that show photos (click on my name, there's a link to my site there).

[NutLoose]

Was that the runner? :(

[CAEBr]

Was that the runner? :(

It was indeed Nutty, absolute ****ing sacrilege :oh:

[NutLoose]

Bugger :(

There would be an absolute uproar if a U.K. company went into the USA and started destroying their heritage.

[Jhieminga]

There are various sides to this story:
- The Walton family own the airfield and some of the aircraft but not the VC10. They didn't want to run the business anymore and leased this (the airfield and facilities) to Cox, a US company.
- Cox want the airfield for their automotive business, nothing else. Because of this they have asked other users to vacate the site.
- The VC10 was/is owned by GJD but they were not based there anymore and the VC10 was only allowed to be there and run while the Waltons were running the facility and as long as it did not get in the way of business. The company scrapping the airframe is GJD itself, so they are cutting up their own property.
- Moving the VC10 would have meant a six-figure sum would have to be found. This was tried for ZA147 and this fundraiser never came near anything realistic.
In the end it boils down to money, but there is not one single villain in this story. I suspect some of the parts may find their way to the project that aims to fly ZA150 again, some parts will end up at https://www.doors2manual.org/ and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the cockpit section may be saved. Time will tell.

[Davef68]

There are various sides to this story:
- The Walton family own the airfield and some of the aircraft but not the VC10. They didn't want to run the business anymore and leased this (the airfield and facilities) to Cox, a US company.
- Cox want the airfield for their automotive business, nothing else. Because of this they have asked other users to vacate the site.
.
Do you know what the status is of Comet XS235 ? Can't recall who owns her, but it would be sad to see the last flying Comet broken up

[Jhieminga]

Parked on a dispersal somewhere in a corner, alongside the Nimrod and Victor. Those three airframes are owned by the Walton family or one of the Waltons AFAIK. Based on the work they've put into storing them and providing a display area for the other, smaller, airframes I expect them to be around for a little while longer.

[NutLoose]

I believe the Waltons retained some land near the QRA sheds for their aircraft, Shame they hadn’t had room for the Ten.