Qantas Second Officer Jobs

[petra.oskertrich1995]

Hey Everyone,

I am seeking knowledge and experience from anyone familiar with the Qantas Second Officer role and when it is likely to be offered again? I am a recent graduate at a flying school here in Melbourne with just under 200 hours (CPL, MECIR, all ATPLS) and looking at Qantas as my dream career when things return to normal soon. Does anyone have any advice on the position?

I have also enrolled in a Multi Crew Co-operation and Jet Orientation course, hoping this will help.

Thank you!!!

[Fujiroll76]

I’m surprised this hasn’t been jumped on yet..

Here’s the best advice you’ll ever receive. Forget about the shiny jet for 10 years. Enjoy your GA career.

Now please delete this post.

[Capt Fathom]

I’m surprised this hasn’t been jumped on yet..

What! An hour after it was posted? Most people have other things to worry about!

[morno]

Hey Everyone,

I am seeking knowledge and experience from anyone familiar with the Qantas Second Officer role and when it is likely to be offered again? I am a recent graduate at a flying school here in Melbourne with just under 200 hours (CPL, MECIR, all ATPLS) and looking at Qantas as my dream career when things return to normal soon. Does anyone have any advice on the position?

I have also enrolled in a Multi Crew Co-operation and Jet Orientation course, hoping this will help.

Thank you!!!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Why would you do a “jet orientation course” at this point in your career?

Sorry, where was I? Ohh that’s right, hahahahahaha

[das Uber Soldat]

Wtf is a 'jet orientation course'. Sounds like a great way to fleece people out of money. Maybe I should start offering one.

[pinkpanther1]

Wow, what a great bunch of people here. Someone new to the industry is very politely trying to get the ins and outs and looking for a bit of advice and that's the reaction they get?

Here's what you need to know mate. The industry is going to take a long long time to recover. Any future growth and flight crew requirements are going to be filled by a) stood down crew returning to work b) experienced Jet pilots from Virgin/Tiger/Cathay/Emirates and any other airlines that have given redundancies C) those already on hold files for Qantas (coming from internal transfers from Qantaslink/Jetstar) and D) Qantas Cadets at the affiliated FTA QFPP schools.

The reality is you're probably not going to get into Qantas as a second officer anytime soon. What you need to do is build up your hours. Get a job up north with one of the small operations (Chartair etc) work up a bit of multi time, get into a multi crew regional job and then go from there.

It's a tough gig at the moment and you have to be realistic. I know plenty of ex Virgin 777 pilots that are up North doing exactly that.

Good Luck with it all, we've all done it.

.....oh and ignore the types of people that are in this thread. Aviation is a great career but it's filled with toxic people who think the bigger/faster/heavier/newer their aircraft is, the more entitled they are to behave like a##holes.

[morno]

Ohh come on pinkpanther, do we have to spoon feed these people? Don’t they do research into the career they’re getting themselves into?

A jet orientation course? Seriously?

[PoppaJo]

Current cadets are nervous enough around facing the axe let alone taking on anymore.

Forget it. Come back in 2030.

[dr dre]

Wtf is a 'jet orientation course'. Sounds like a great way to fleece people out of money. Maybe I should start offering one.

Well a Multi Crew Co-Operation course is now a requirement for ATPL issue, I assume this is what the OP is referring to.

[BA_Baracas]

Best of luck to you pal, what a crappy time to try to get into aviation.
Bit shocked at some of the responses you’ve got to be honest, we’ve all been dead keen wannabe aviators at some point, and the amount of money you need to recoup won’t help.

The reality is tho, you’re gonna struggle to get into any major airline anytime soon, anywhere in the world.

I have a mate who’s son recently finished his ATPL and had a start date with a major european airline, but has been unceremoniously dumped from them. I have other mates who have been canned from a large middle eastern airline, and are now struggling to get a job driving an Amazon prime van.

Bottom line, right now the demand for pilots is being massively outstripped by the supply of them, many with a lot of big jet experience.

I genuinely wish you all the best, but you’re gonna have to be patient unfortunately. As has been said already, take any flying job you can get in meantime.

[Duck Pilot]

Go for it, ignore the crap that’s being spat here. If you are under 35 and wanting to get into an airline post 2022 give it a go.

Research the subject, the information is out there - ignore the Pprune drivel!

[Climb150]

MCC is mandatory now, Jet orientation course (JOC) is not. JOC is one of those things dreamed up by flight schools in Europe to get extra money from you. It now seems to have made it to Australia.

[Timmy Tomkins]

Offer good advice, as some have done but why be so nasty. Everyone has to start somewhere and personally, I wish Petra luck

[kikatinalong]

Unfortunately, these JOC/MCC thingys are a real thing here in Europe. A newly minted CPL has to pay a couple of thousand Euros/Pounds for a couple of hours in a jet sim.

Kika

[Fareastdriver]

This 'slump' in the airline industry will disappear almost as fast as it arrived. The gauge is not PPRuNe but the oil markets. Airlines are the biggest consumers of oil in the world and the collapse in the price of oil last year was a result of the collapse of the aviation sector. The introduction of a vaccine has changed the scenery completely and the price of oil, rising from $47 barrel to $67 in six weeks demonstrates that the aviation industry is going to take off again.

It will not happen this year but by the end of next year this whole thing may well be a memory.

Go for it.

[ManillaChillaDilla]

Good luck with your career Petra.

As you can see from some replies to your post, there are some " interesting" characters in this industry.

Seeking advice from more experienced people is always a good start. Obviuosly, be wary of flying schools trying hard to take your money promising " Catch Me If You Can " style gloss.

GA is an excellent starting point.

MCD.

[umop apisdn]

My first jet orientation was after I got a job flying one. Every airline has their training standards which are designed to bring people into a jet from GA, or designed to bring people on from other jet jobs. You absolutely don't need a jet orientation course.

Take Qantas for example. Starting as an SO is a multi year long "jet orientation course."

Good luck :)

[rodney rude]

I was once paid a couple of grand to write a jet orientation course for a training organisation. I put a lot into it, and it took me ages, but throughout the whole process I kept asking myself, who is going to pay good money to do this "not mandatory" course? As if we don't throw away enough hard earned dough along the way in our careers.

As for grief being thrown at Petra Ostrich - his post was..............well.............I am a newly minted pilot with 200 hours and want to join Qantas when things return to normal "soon." To me its a bit "here I am, Gen Y, you need me". 200 hours and I want to join Qantas soon. Go learn to fly first mate and drop the sense of entitlement.

[Going Boeing]

I suspect that Point to Point (P2P) flying will be the go in the post COVID environment which will require a much larger number of smaller, long range aircraft such as A350, B787, A321XLR, etc compared to a smaller number of Hub based aircraft such as the A380, B747 & B777. This will obviously require a larger number of pilots so I expect airlines to commence employment of pilots soon after the international market opens up.

It would be smart for newly trained pilots to do everything they can to not only meet the minimum requirements for employment but to do everything possible to be accepted by the airline of their choice. Do your research though as I believe you can waste money on courses that have no value.

Good luck Petra.

[Middle.Marker]

100% a troll

[Angle of Attack]

Are you all saying that I got ripped off 30 years ago by enrolling in a Cessna Orientation Course?

[Double_Clutch]

“Jet Orientation course” ... WTF is that?

Never heard of that let alone completed an “orientation course”

”this is the nose of the airplane, this is the wing, here are the motors - they make big noises”

[maggot]

Troll or not it seems most here are projecting a s seeing what they want to see
:zzz:

[ruprecht]

“Jet Orientation course” ... WTF is that?

“This is the fish - you eat that”

“This is last break - you don’t get that”

”This is my nutso scheme to make money by combining Bitcoin with ostrich farms - you listen to that without smirking”

[Lapon]

The short answer is that there will be no Qantas opportunities for the foreseeable future, that much is obvious even to yourself Im sure.

If history is anything to go by then when things do pick up again in the years ahead it will be on a greater scale than most would have expected. The best thing you can do is seperate yourself from the hundreds of other 200hr pilots that have graduated over the prior few years.
For that you need actual flying experience, and thats where your effort should be focused for now.
If the day arrives that doing some dubious course makes you competitive then I'm sure it won't involve more that a couple of days off work to get done.

What is certain is that a couple of thousand hours between now and then will help you reach your goal.

[Superfly Slick Dick]

I cant believe all you people took it so seriously; It’s obviously a joke.

Though, I wish people would stop using the term ‘MECIR’. There is no such thing!
‘The term ‘command’ was used to differentiate it from a ‘co-pilot instrument rating’.
With Part 61, there is no more co-pilot instrument rating.
Does the troll mean an IR with a MEA endorsement?
Its written as: IR MEA IAP2D IAP3D if the person also has a 3D endorsement on their IR.

You’re welcome.

[Jnr380]

Hey Everyone,

I am seeking knowledge and experience from anyone familiar with the Qantas Second Officer role and when it is likely to be offered again? I am a recent graduate at a flying school here in Melbourne with just under 200 hours (CPL, MECIR, all ATPLS) and looking at Qantas as my dream career when things return to normal soon. Does anyone have any advice on the position?

I have also enrolled in a Multi Crew Co-operation and Jet Orientation course, hoping this will help.

Thank you!!!

With a mentality like that it’s almost guaranteed you graduated from either Swinburne or RMIT, they tend to instil these false likelihoods of Graduate to Jet mentality.

No airline will be hiring for at least the next 7 years and it’ll be usually be in the following order
- Furloughed Staff
- Experienced Jet Turbine pilots with type rating
- Experienced Jet Turbine pilots without type rating
- Experienced twin Turbo-prop pilots
- Experienced twin piston pilots

Qantas mainline stopped recruiting in 2008 and didn’t start rehiring till about 2017 so maybe keep other options open

My advice to you is to get some twin and IF time behind you as well as an instructor rating, work your way up and when airlines around the world are trying to suck up as much pilots as possible then you’ll be in a more mature and experienced mindset to get the position

[George Glass]

You are going to have to do what we all did 40 years ago.
Get what ever job you can in GA , in PNG or flying for some mining company AND GET SOME EXPERIENCE.
Cadetship schemes like to get pupils who anti up the cash to think that they are employable. You’re not.
When QF stops recruiting you are screwed.
Spend the next couple of years learning to fly and remember to enjoy it.
I wish at the time I had appreciated how much fun I was having.

[airdualbleedfault]

If indeed you are not a troll my advice is to get a degree in something useful, IT, Law, Medicine etc, by the time you finish said degree you'll have an idea as to wether the "this has happened before, it'll recover in 2 years" brigade are right (I suspect not as this is completely unprecedented, 60% of pilots are unemployed and as someone pointed out, QF didn't hire for some 10 years when things weren't anywhere near as bad)
Good luck, you're going to need a healthy dose of it

[Buttscratcher]

100% a troll

Totally.
Way too much time on your hands, Petra, you crazy dude.

(Can you really have a CPL and a MECIR with less than 200hrs now?
That's some messed up shiz right there!!)

[j3pipercub]

Does a Jet Orienteering Course count?

You know the one, where you get halfway round the early morning walkaround and forget what you’re supposed to be looking for/at/what aircraft type is this.

Cos I’ve never done one.

j3

[Come in spinner]

Troll or not who cares. Good on those being positive and or constructive

[Buttscratcher]

I'm bored too, but not as bored as to suppose anyone would actually write ".....looking at Qantas as my dream career" on here, and expect to be taken seriously.
I'm gonna to have to give you a '2' for SA there buddy.

[rcoight]

Troll or not who cares. Good on those being positive and or constructive

Correct.

The good news for the OP (troll or not) is the loudmouth heros on here aren’t actually representative of the industry as a whole.

[ScepticalOptomist]

Wow, what a great bunch of people here. Someone new to the industry is very politely trying to get the ins and outs and looking for a bit of advice and that's the reaction they get?

Here's what you need to know mate. The industry is going to take a long long time to recover. Any future growth and flight crew requirements are going to be filled by a) stood down crew returning to work b) experienced Jet pilots from Virgin/Tiger/Cathay/Emirates and any other airlines that have given redundancies C) those already on hold files for Qantas (coming from internal transfers from Qantaslink/Jetstar) and D) Qantas Cadets at the affiliated FTA QFPP schools.

The reality is you're probably not going to get into Qantas as a second officer anytime soon. What you need to do is build up your hours. Get a job up north with one of the small operations (Chartair etc) work up a bit of multi time, get into a multi crew regional job and then go from there.

It's a tough gig at the moment and you have to be realistic. I know plenty of ex Virgin 777 pilots that are up North doing exactly that.

Good Luck with it all, we've all done it.

.....oh and ignore the types of people that are in this thread. Aviation is a great career but it's filled with toxic people who think the bigger/faster/heavier/newer their aircraft is, the more entitled they are to behave like a##holes.

Well said.

[McLimit]

No airline will be hiring for at least the next 7 years.

- Don't take financial advice from this person
- Don't take relationship advice from this person
- Definitely don't take career advice from this person

- Do not take ANY advice from this person

Clueless and wrong.

[Buttscratcher]

Jesus, Mc, you and 380 have some history or what!?

Fine.
But why are you self-righteousnessly feeding a Troll?
Imparting your hard-gotten worldly wisdom, for what would stand as a knock-knock joke?


(oh, plus, this forum is not for jobseekers or advice...that's GA &Questions)

[unobtanium]

Step 1) Be a female.

[McLimit]

Do we? To be honest mate, I didn't read who wrote the comment, didn't need to. I can name a few airlines recruiting now, can't keep up with the training load. That the thread is a troll, I don't give a rats about, it's the narrative that's the real message. Mate, if anyone, I'm 'entitled' to reply to the thread the way most have, the jet job I lost ain't coming back, guaranteed. And I'm not of the age that will see me employed by another. But the fact is 'This Too Shall Pass' despite all the petrified ninnies and non resilient babies in this world.

[Buttscratcher]

Fair enough, Mc.
But surely you see the intent of the Trollingl?
That a 200 hour pilot is quite willing to take your job.
He didn't want 'a' job out in the bush, he wants 'your' job.
That was Petra's wind-up.
Jesus, man!

[cLeArIcE]

Though, I wish people would stop using the term ‘MECIR’. There is no such thing
With Part 61, there is no more co-pilot instrument rating.
Does the troll mean an IR with a MEA endorsement?
Its written as: IR MEA IAP2D IAP3D if the person also has a 3D endorsement on their IR.

You’re welcome.

Dont be that guy...
Seriously Who cares... Does anyone even read that part 61 garbage. Some pointless idiotic document written by some even bigger pointless idiot in CASA can call it whatever they like.

[petra.oskertrich1995]

So firstly, shame on the men in here which have decided to spit on me for asking a question. I'm actually a female (parents from Croatia) and I am new to aviation but the hate messages I've received via my inbox would make you the troll (not me). Yes, I went to university here in Melbourne and yes I have around 200 hours now. I did the 150-hour integrated course which was part of a double major (Bachelor of Aviation & Business). A mentor suggested that doing the MCC & Jet Orientation course would help us stand out on the resume. I am also looking at doing a course on "airline interview tips". Any suggestions here? (without the haters please).

Thanks to some of you with insightful responses. Some of us at campus have looked at Darwin and Broome. There is also a "GA Ready" course we are looking at doing through Flight Standards. Has anyone had any experience with this course? Apparently the course will help getting a job in the northern area of the country.

[Climb150]

Don't worry, Qantas will have plenty of quality applicants with a "frozen" ATPL!

[McLimit]

Fair enough, Mc.
But surely you see the intent of the Trollingl?
That a 200 hour pilot is quite willing to take your job.
He didn't want 'a' job out in the bush, he wants 'your' job.
That was Petra's wind-up.
Jesus, man!

Mate, he/she's not taking my job, it's gone! And going bush when you can pull a right seat with 200 hours, if that's what you want, do it.

Give it 10 years there wont be any bush jobs, it'll be droned.

[Keg]

Qantas mainline stopped recruiting in 2008 and didn’t start rehiring till about 2017 so maybe keep other options open


QF didn't hire for some 10 years ...

Crikey, at this rate of inflation it won’t be long before Qantas hasn’t recruited this century!

January 2009 to August 2016 are the exact dates.

[SIUYA]

I haven't got a dog in this fight, but BALPA is warning prospective pilots to NOT begin training now as a result of the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic.

BALPA is saying there are 10,000 unemployed pilots in Europe, with 1,000 in the UK alone. However, CAE estimates the industry is going to need 27,000 new pilots in 2021, and 264,000 over the next 10 years because of 'aged-based retirements and attrition.'

Source: Royal Aeronautical Society AEROSPACE, December 2020.

It's clearly a very difficult decision for any prospective pilot faced with a BIG financial outlay to get basic qualifications and absolutely no certainty of employment in the foreseeable future.

If I was starting again and deciding to whether or not to pursue an airline career, I'd forget it and concentrate on becoming a plumber or an electrician. :ok:

[McLimit]

I'd forget it and concentrate on becoming a plumber or an electrician. https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/thumbs.gif

Or an epidemiologist :cool:

[WillieTheWimp]

So firstly, shame on the men in here which have decided to spit on me for asking a question. I'm actually a female (parents from Croatia) and I am new to aviation but the hate messages I've received via my inbox would make you the troll (not me). Yes, I went to university here in Melbourne and yes I have around 200 hours now. I did the 150-hour integrated course which was part of a double major (Bachelor of Aviation & Business). A mentor suggested that doing the MCC & Jet Orientation course would help us stand out on the resume. I am also looking at doing a course on "airline interview tips". Any suggestions here? (without the haters please).

Thanks to some of you with insightful responses. Some of us at campus have looked at Darwin and Broome. There is also a "GA Ready" course we are looking at doing through Flight Standards. Has anyone had any experience with this course? Apparently the course will help getting a job in the northern area of the country.

You need to consider what crowd you are trying to stand out from.

In the case of Qantas, if and when they do eventually hire, 200 hours and a 'jet orientation course' will not make you stand out against a 5000 hour jet pilot. Unfortunately, your mentor has led you up the garden path there.

Now some facts:
1. Assuming you are lucky enough to get a job flying now, you will not be considered by Qantas recruitment for min 5 years, but probably closer to 10 years
2. Once you're considered, you will have to jump through their ridiculous hoops anyway, with a lot of good operators not making the cut, more or less it's a lucky dip.
3. Outside of Australia any contract job will require you to be already type rated with experience on type, usually at least 500 hours
4. Any ex-pat legacy carrier (I use that term loosely) will require you to have some form of previous airline experience( when it's booming, regional turboprop is good enough, when it's not booming then jet airline experience will be required)
5. Your only options in the foreseeable future is either piston single-engine charter or instructing.
6. If you aren't happy with either of those, do something else
7. Finally, don't take advise from flight schools, they will sell ice to an Eskimo

There are no guarantees in aviation and there's a good chance your career will not go in the direction you want. You might be lucky, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Keg]

I’ve some advice. Never, ever take the words of a mentor as being your only source of information. Sure they are providing an input but that still needs to go through a decision making process because ultimately it’s you who will make the decision and you who will wear the consequences. The mentor should be clear and upfront about this.

A good mentor should be able to assist you with pros and cons of various decisions. They should be supportive of you whichever way you choose to go, but the decision is yours and not everything a mentor says is a ‘good idea’ is a good idea. It is very, very rare for me as a mentor to say ‘I think you should do XYZ’ and I’d certainly never say it in terms of a ‘jet orientation’ course.

[DUXNUTZ]

Geez, good old Australian aviation - so quick to lay the boot in and put someone down.

To the OP: I learnt to fly in October 2001. Back then was exactly what they are saying now. “The industry is finished. You’ll never get a job!” Etc etc.

I finished my course, went up to the Territory (got lucky) and eventually the jobs came, industry turned and moved on.

Aviation is full of toxic people that won’t hesitate to say what you cannot do. You set the bar for yourself and give it a crack!!!

[Jnr380]

So firstly, shame on the men in here which have decided to spit on me for asking a question. I'm actually a female (parents from Croatia) and I am new to aviation but the hate messages I've received via my inbox would make you the troll (not me). Yes, I went to university here in Melbourne and yes I have around 200 hours now. I did the 150-hour integrated course which was part of a double major (Bachelor of Aviation & Business). A mentor suggested that doing the MCC & Jet Orientation course would help us stand out on the resume. I am also looking at doing a course on "airline interview tips". Any suggestions here? (without the haters please).

Thanks to some of you with insightful responses. Some of us at campus have looked at Darwin and Broome. There is also a "GA Ready" course we are looking at doing through Flight Standards. Has anyone had any experience with this course? Apparently the course will help getting a job in the northern area of the country.


Don’t trust anything coming from the mouths of anyone at Swinburne, they’re really good at parting people with their money and not giving much in return.

Personally you’re probably better off getting a mentor that is already an airline pilot to mentor you, not some Swinburne hack. Please don’t take this as an attack on you, but I do have experience with Oxford/CAE/GFS organisation and pilots and they’re only in it for themselves

Next thing you know they’ll tell you “oh you should do a King-Air endorsement with us, that will help you consolidate your Jet Prep course!”

Don’t waste your money on these useless courses, You got a CPL / IR with a frozen ATPL? Then you’re GA charter ready! Got an Instructor rating? Then you’re GA instructor ready!

Airlines usually don’t care about if you did this course or that course, they will train you to what they want you to be. Just need to be mentally ready to absorb the amount of info they throw at you and no Jet orientation course will ever prepare you for it.

If you want a testament, I went from GA to Airlines in a space of 3.5 years without doing any useless “prep” courses. I just had a really good mentor who helped me for interview prep.

There is actually a few well respected Airline Pilots floating around Moorabbin that will mentor and will assist you in your path within Aviation

[Australopithecus]

Geez, good old Australian aviation - so quick to lay the boot in and put someone down.

To the OP: I learnt to fly in October 2001. Back then was exactly what they are saying now. “The industry is finished. You’ll never get a job!” Etc

<snip>

Aviation is full of toxic people that won’t hesitate to say what you cannot do. You set the bar for yourself and give it a crack!!!

They said the same thing in 1974. And there were the same toxic people. But there was disco, which was worse.

[SOPS]

They said the same thing in 1974. And there were the same toxic people. But there was disco, which was worse.

Come on, Disco was, and still is, the best.

[Buttscratcher]

Nah, bull****, no-one could be that stupid.

I'll qualify that simply.
The state of the industry is so severely depressed at the moment, and some nutter is asking for advice on an Airline appointment.
There's a large number of people here, with very high time, very unemployed and wondering how they are going to get it all back, and put food on the table.

Situational friggin' awareness, Petra. Good windup, but not as funny as you first thought.

....and again, this isn't the forum for such an enquiry, nor wind-up.

[Jay Arr]

Or an epidemiologist :cool:

That's a pretty crowded market also; there are 26,000,000 of them just in Australia alone these days.

[McLimit]

there are 26,000,000 of them just in Australia alone these days.

:} :D

Note: 'I've had no experience, but I'll have a look at it for ya'

Rodney Rude, Gynecologist.

[deja vu]

Hey Everyone,

I am seeking knowledge and experience from anyone familiar with the Qantas Second Officer role and when it is likely to be offered again? I am a recent graduate at a flying school here in Melbourne with just under 200 hours (CPL, MECIR, all ATPLS) and looking at Qantas as my dream career when things return to normal soon. Does anyone have any advice on the position?

I have also enrolled in a Multi Crew Co-operation and Jet Orientation course, hoping this will help.

Thank you!!!
Is it even possible to have a CPL and MECIR in under 200 hours? If it is, it shouldn't be.

[morno]

Is it even possible to have a CPL and MECIR in under 200 hours? If it is, it shouldn't be.

Has been for about 20+ years. I don’t know too many operators who would be keen on employing you with those kinds of hours though.

[dr dre]

Has been for about 20+ years. I don’t know too many operators who would be keen on employing you with those kinds of hours though.

Most airlines in the world will take a screened and well trained 250hr pilot and safely put them into the right hand seat of jet/turboprop. And in Australia it’s happened quite frequently over decades as well onto types such as the 320, Q400, ATR, F100, SAAB. This is a debate that’s been more than had on these forums over the years.

[cLeArIcE]

So firstly, shame on the men in here which have decided to spit on me for asking a question .

No offence but you'll get used to people like that. When you do eventually make it at an airline one day,(and with the right attitude, hard Work and a little luck you can...) you will then have the joy sitting next to them all day.. You'll be amazed at how your 3000th MEL-SYD sector with CAVOK at one end and B030 at the other end will feel like a space shuttle launch from Mt Everest.

Chances are you were called off standby to fly with them because the FO that was rostered called in sick. They can usually be found in the briefing room 20 minutes prior to sign on sitting alone. (Good preparation is key for a shuttle launch). They'll brief you on every NOTAM especially that taxiway in Sydney with 3 lights out even though it's ******* 11am. They'll ask your opinion on fuel but before you have a chance to answer, they'll interrupt you with the figure they have already lodged. You can almost feel their erection as they mentally congratulate themselves on some A+ CRM for including the FO. By the way, that fuel figure is usually company minimum. That's especially entertaining when you are bound for Darwin or Cairns in the wet season with no TEMPO on the TAF .

They walk needlessly fast, keen to get to aircraft like it's going to leave without them, usually 5 steps in front of you. They'll finish the brief with some form of the words "I'm 100% SOP." What will follow is a mix of 50% non SOP and 50% SOP from an FCOM that's over 10 years old. They are incredibly fast to notice if you selected the NAV lights on system 1 when today's date is an even day and thus it should be on system 2. They however don't notice their miss-set QNH and MCP ALT but you can just fix that silently when they leave for a pre flight toilet visit.

Your doing well if you've made it to line up clearance without gushing at the marvel of watching this sky god oztrnaught at work. He'll usually mention that there's bit of a crosswind from the left prior to rolling. You make note of about a 3 kt crosswind from the right but nod in agreeance anyway. You almost forgot to call V1 because you were too busy counting every centre line light that was hit on the take off roll. Note that he will mention that 1 you hit on your sector. Within 3 seconds of selecting gear up he will bark at you to ask ATC to cancel speed, but only if your initial departure track is 180 degrees in the wrong direction.

It's a summer afternoon and there is the usual build ups enroute, he'll be sure to avoid the small ones by 50nm and the big ones by 1nm. On the Bright side, if it's a very stormy day, you'll be on your way to having a 10/10 backside from all the arse cheek clenching you'll be doing.

TOPD is approaching, time for a briefing. This will be first conversation you've had in 30mins. He's spent the flight studying the Rivet arrival that hasn't changed much in twenty years. You've been debating whether you should call off sick in Sydney or suffer one more sector and get home tonight. You know you've lost it because for a moment you actually start to miss GA.. But you don't miss being poor and living in some **** hole like Darwin. You come to your senses and realise your at FL160 and haven't paid attention to anything that's happened in the last 10 mins. Time to focus. Concentration now is key. If your aircraft has some sort of smart VNAV system, FMS managed descent etc, the kind that makes it all easy he will almost certainly not use it.

You will be amazed at his butter smooth landing though. Smoothest you will ever feel, you'll never do better. Right at the end of the touch down zone too.
You will now feel your face hit the window as he manually brakes to make the high speed exit. "Fair bit of tailwind there, can't those idiot's in the Tower see it, let them know so they can think about changing runways" you note the 10kt headwind on the windsock and pass the message on anyway.
Your taxi speed stays steady at 30 kts, you begin wondering if he's going to hold short of the approaching runway. More clenching. You try not to laugh as ATC wait until you come to a screeching halt mere millimetres from the hold line to clear you to cross. They obviously know this guy is a ****wit too. You try not to laugh again when he stops short on the Up hill sloped NIGS. Thrust goes up to 45% N1 to get moving again. Part of you hopes he goes too far this time and a tug needs to be called out, just for the LOLs.
Your now shutdown at the gate. Your sector homebound.. He's going to be much more annoying. He'll find away to touch the FMC and MCP at least 5 times as much as on his sector. Smile and laugh, at least you don't Work in an office.

Okay so 95% Of the people you'll fly with are actually great guys and girl's. But these people do exist. Just do whats best for you and block out the noise. Some are probably just dirty they never got into QF. You'll make mistakes along the way and you won't always take the right path but who cares what they think. It's your journey and no one else's. We all take slightly different paths.
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[LostWanderer]

No offence but you'll get used to people like that. When you do eventually make it at an airline one day,(and with the right attitude, hard Work and a little luck you can...) you will then have the joy sitting next to them all day.. You'll be amazed at how your 3000th MEL-SYD sector with CAVOK at one end and B030 at the other end will feel like a space shuttle launch from Mt Everest.

Chances are you were called off standby to fly with them because the FO that was rostered called in sick. They can usually be found in the briefing room 20 minutes prior to sign on sitting alone. (Good preparation is key for a shuttle launch). They'll brief you on every NOTAM especially that taxiway in Sydney with 3 lights out even though it's ******* 11am. They'll ask your opinion on fuel but before you have a chance to answer, they'll interrupt you with the figure they have already lodged. You can almost feel their erection as they mentally congratulate themselves on some A+ CRM for including the FO. By the way, that fuel figure is usually company minimum. That's especially entertaining when you are bound for Darwin or Cairns in the wet season with no TEMPO on the TAF .

They walk needlessly fast, keen to get to aircraft like it's going to leave without them, usually 5 steps in front of you. They'll finish the brief with some form of the words "I'm 100% SOP." What will follow is a mix of 50% non SOP and 50% SOP from an FCOM that's over 10 years old. They are incredibly fast to notice if you selected the NAV lights on system 1 when today's date is an even day and thus it should be on system 2. They however don't notice their miss-set QNH and MCP ALT but you can just fix that silently when they leave for a pre flight toilet visit.

Your doing well if you've made it to line up clearance without gushing at the marvel of watching this sky god oztrnaught at work. He'll usually mention that there's bit of a crosswind from the left prior to rolling. You make note of about a 3 kt crosswind from the right but nod in agreeance anyway. You almost forgot to call V1 because you were too busy counting every centre line light that was hit on the take off roll. Note that he will mention that 1 you hit on your sector. Within 3 seconds of selecting gear up he will bark at you to ask ATC to cancel speed, but only if your initial departure track is 180 degrees in the wrong direction.

It's a summer afternoon and there is the usual build ups enroute, he'll be sure to avoid the small ones by 50nm and the big ones by 1nm. On the Bright side, if it's a very stormy day, you'll be on your way to having a 10/10 backside from all the arse cheek clenching you'll be doing.

TOPD is approaching, time for a briefing. This will be first conversation you've had in 30mins. He's spent the flight studying the Rivet arrival that hasn't changed much in twenty years. You've been debating whether you should call off sick in Sydney or suffer one more sector and get home tonight. You know you've lost it because for a moment you actually start to miss GA.. But you don't miss being poor and living in some **** hole like Darwin. You come to your senses and realise your at FL160 and haven't paid attention to anything that's happened in the last 10 mins. Time to focus. Concentration now is key. If your aircraft has some sort of smart VNAV system, FMS managed descent etc, the kind that makes it all easy he will almost certainly not use it.

You will be amazed at his butter smooth landing though. Smoothest you will ever feel, you'll never do better. Right at the end of the touch down zone too.
You will now feel your face hit the window as he manually brakes to make the high speed exit. "Fair bit of tailwind there, can't those idiot's in the Tower see it, let them know so they can think about changing runways" you note the 10kt headwind on the windsock and pass the message on anyway.
Your taxi speed stays steady at 30 kts, you begin wondering if he's going to hold short of the approaching runway. More clenching. You try not to laugh as ATC wait until you come to a screeching halt mere millimetres from the hold line to clear you to cross. They obviously know this guy is a ****wit too. You try not to laugh again when he stops short on the Up hill sloped NIGS. Thrust goes up to 45% N1 to get moving again. Part of you hopes he goes too far this time and a tug needs to be called out, just for the LOLs.
Your now shutdown at the gate. Your sector homebound.. He's going to be much more annoying. He'll find away to touch the FMC and MCP at least 5 times as much as on his sector. Smile and laugh, at least you don't Work in an office.

Okay so 95% Of the people you'll fly with are actually great guys and girl's. But these people do exist. Just do whats best for you and block out the noise. Some are probably just dirty they never got into QF. You'll make mistakes along the way and you won't always take the right path but who cares what they think. It's your journey and no one else's. We all take slightly different paths.
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One of the best and most accurate things I’ve read in a long time! Love it.

[ShotOne]

What a brilliant post. Don’t worry about the negative ones, Petra, although I’m embarrassed if they are professional pilots. A lot of ppruners haven’t been closer to an airliner than Microsoft fs in mums spare bedroom. People like that do exist in aviation but fortunately in the minority.

[3wickets]

No offence but you'll get used to people like that. When you do eventually make it at an airline one day,(and with the right attitude, hard Work and a little luck you can...) you will then have the joy sitting next to them all day.. You'll be amazed at how your 3000th MEL-SYD sector with CAVOK at one end and B030 at the other end will feel like a space shuttle launch from Mt Everest.

Chances are you were called off standby to fly with them because the FO that was rostered called in sick. They can usually be found in the briefing room 20 minutes prior to sign on sitting alone. (Good preparation is key for a shuttle launch). They'll brief you on every NOTAM especially that taxiway in Sydney with 3 lights out even though it's ******* 11am. They'll ask your opinion on fuel but before you have a chance to answer, they'll interrupt you with the figure they have already lodged. You can almost feel their erection as they mentally congratulate themselves on some A+ CRM for including the FO. By the way, that fuel figure is usually company minimum. That's especially entertaining when you are bound for Darwin or Cairns in the wet season with no TEMPO on the TAF .

They walk needlessly fast, keen to get to aircraft like it's going to leave without them, usually 5 steps in front of you. They'll finish the brief with some form of the words "I'm 100% SOP." What will follow is a mix of 50% non SOP and 50% SOP from an FCOM that's over 10 years old. They are incredibly fast to notice if you selected the NAV lights on system 1 when today's date is an even day and thus it should be on system 2. They however don't notice their miss-set QNH and MCP ALT but you can just fix that silently when they leave for a pre flight toilet visit.

Your doing well if you've made it to line up clearance without gushing at the marvel of watching this sky god oztrnaught at work. He'll usually mention that there's bit of a crosswind from the left prior to rolling. You make note of about a 3 kt crosswind from the right but nod in agreeance anyway. You almost forgot to call V1 because you were too busy counting every centre line light that was hit on the take off roll. Note that he will mention that 1 you hit on your sector. Within 3 seconds of selecting gear up he will bark at you to ask ATC to cancel speed, but only if your initial departure track is 180 degrees in the wrong direction.

It's a summer afternoon and there is the usual build ups enroute, he'll be sure to avoid the small ones by 50nm and the big ones by 1nm. On the Bright side, if it's a very stormy day, you'll be on your way to having a 10/10 backside from all the arse cheek clenching you'll be doing.

TOPD is approaching, time for a briefing. This will be first conversation you've had in 30mins. He's spent the flight studying the Rivet arrival that hasn't changed much in twenty years. You've been debating whether you should call off sick in Sydney or suffer one more sector and get home tonight. You know you've lost it because for a moment you actually start to miss GA.. But you don't miss being poor and living in some **** hole like Darwin. You come to your senses and realise your at FL160 and haven't paid attention to anything that's happened in the last 10 mins. Time to focus. Concentration now is key. If your aircraft has some sort of smart VNAV system, FMS managed descent etc, the kind that makes it all easy he will almost certainly not use it.

You will be amazed at his butter smooth landing though. Smoothest you will ever feel, you'll never do better. Right at the end of the touch down zone too.
You will now feel your face hit the window as he manually brakes to make the high speed exit. "Fair bit of tailwind there, can't those idiot's in the Tower see it, let them know so they can think about changing runways" you note the 10kt headwind on the windsock and pass the message on anyway.
Your taxi speed stays steady at 30 kts, you begin wondering if he's going to hold short of the approaching runway. More clenching. You try not to laugh as ATC wait until you come to a screeching halt mere millimetres from the hold line to clear you to cross. They obviously know this guy is a ****wit too. You try not to laugh again when he stops short on the Up hill sloped NIGS. Thrust goes up to 45% N1 to get moving again. Part of you hopes he goes too far this time and a tug needs to be called out, just for the LOLs.
Your now shutdown at the gate. Your sector homebound.. He's going to be much more annoying. He'll find away to touch the FMC and MCP at least 5 times as much as on his sector. Smile and laugh, at least you don't Work in an office.

Okay so 95% Of the people you'll fly with are actually great guys and girl's. But these people do exist. Just do whats best for you and block out the noise. Some are probably just dirty they never got into QF. You'll make mistakes along the way and you won't always take the right path but who cares what they think. It's your journey and no one else's. We all take slightly different paths.
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Mate if there was 1 single post that could summarize being an airline pilot , this would be it! ...I don’t know how many times I’ve called in sick because the fossil in the left seat was non standard and was unable to shut up about his divorce and mistress in the Philippines , all below 10k 😂

[goodonyamate]

[QUOTE]No offence but you'll get used to people like that. When you do eventually make it at an airline one day,(and with the right attitude, hard Work and a little luck you can...) you will then have the joy sitting next to them all day.. You'll be amazed at how your 3000th MEL-SYD sector with CAVOK at one end and B030 at the other end will feel like a space shuttle launch from Mt Everest.

Chances are you were called off standby to fly with them because the FO that was rostered called in sick. They can usually be found in the briefing room 20 minutes prior to sign on sitting alone. (Good preparation is key for a shuttle launch). They'll brief you on every NOTAM especially that taxiway in Sydney with 3 lights out even though it's ******* 11am. They'll ask your opinion on fuel but before you have a chance to answer, they'll interrupt you with the figure they have already lodged. You can almost feel their erection as they mentally congratulate themselves on some A+ CRM for including the FO. By the way, that fuel figure is usually company minimum. That's especially entertaining when you are bound for Darwin or Cairns in the wet season with no TEMPO on the TAF .

They walk needlessly fast, keen to get to aircraft like it's going to leave without them, usually 5 steps in front of you. They'll finish the brief with some form of the words "I'm 100% SOP." What will follow is a mix of 50% non SOP and 50% SOP from an FCOM that's over 10 years old. They are incredibly fast to notice if you selected the NAV lights on system 1 when today's date is an even day and thus it should be on system 2. They however don't notice their miss-set QNH and MCP ALT but you can just fix that silently when they leave for a pre flight toilet visit.

Your doing well if you've made it to line up clearance without gushing at the marvel of watching this sky god oztrnaught at work. He'll usually mention that there's bit of a crosswind from the left prior to rolling. You make note of about a 3 kt crosswind from the right but nod in agreeance anyway. You almost forgot to call V1 because you were too busy counting every centre line light that was hit on the take off roll. Note that he will mention that 1 you hit on your sector. Within 3 seconds of selecting gear up he will bark at you to ask ATC to cancel speed, but only if your initial departure track is 180 degrees in the wrong direction.

It's a summer afternoon and there is the usual build ups enroute, he'll be sure to avoid the small ones by 50nm and the big ones by 1nm. On the Bright side, if it's a very stormy day, you'll be on your way to having a 10/10 backside from all the arse cheek clenching you'll be doing.

TOPD is approaching, time for a briefing. This will be first conversation you've had in 30mins. He's spent the flight studying the Rivet arrival that hasn't changed much in twenty years. You've been debating whether you should call off sick in Sydney or suffer one more sector and get home tonight. You know you've lost it because for a moment you actually start to miss GA.. But you don't miss being poor and living in some **** hole like Darwin. You come to your senses and realise your at FL160 and haven't paid attention to anything that's happened in the last 10 mins. Time to focus. Concentration now is key. If your aircraft has some sort of smart VNAV system, FMS managed descent etc, the kind that makes it all easy he will almost certainly not use it.

You will be amazed at his butter smooth landing though. Smoothest you will ever feel, you'll never do better. Right at the end of the touch down zone too.
You will now feel your face hit the window as he manually brakes to make the high speed exit. "Fair bit of tailwind there, can't those idiot's in the Tower see it, let them know so they can think about changing runways" you note the 10kt headwind on the windsock and pass the message on anyway.
Your taxi speed stays steady at 30 kts, you begin wondering if he's going to hold short of the approaching runway. More clenching. You try not to laugh as ATC wait until you come to a screeching halt mere millimetres from the hold line to clear you to cross. They obviously know this guy is a ****wit too. You try not to laugh again when he stops short on the Up hill sloped NIGS. Thrust goes up to 45% N1 to get moving again. Part of you hopes he goes too far this time and a tug needs to be called out, just for the LOLs.
Your now shutdown at the gate. Your sector homebound.. He's going to be much more annoying. He'll find away to touch the FMC and MCP at least 5 times as much as on his sector. Smile and laugh, at least you don't Work in an office.

Okay so 95% Of the people you'll fly with are actually great guys and girl's. But these people do exist. Just do whats best for you and block out the noise. Some are probably just dirty they never got into QF. You'll make mistakes along the way and you won't always take the right path but who cares what they think. It's your journey and no one else's. We all take slightly different paths.
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​​​​​​[QUOTE]

Brilliant

i was thinking you were Brisbane based.

a few clues...the use of a briefing room, the ‘sick in Sydney’ and the minimum fuel. Of course, throw in the mix of old, new and unheard of procedures with the minimum fuel and......any guesses?

just brilliant.

[redsnail]

cLeArIcE
That is brilliant. One of the best posts I've seen.
I showed it to a BA mate, he reckons he's met a few like that in BA too.

[redsnail]

Petra - assuming you're still reading this. Please don't spend any more money on some "course". Now comes the hard part, finding a job. I haven't worked in Australia for 20 years, so my advice may be out of date. Time for research. Where are the scenic flights happening? Historically, Broome, Kununurra, Darwin, Uluru and so on.
Things to have First Aid certificate, Dangerous Goods certificate and half an idea about single engine aircraft.
Now, these jobs will be fiercely fought over. As others have said, there are Virgin B777 captains in Darwin looking for work!

Do you have a Croatian passport? That might be able to open up Europe to you. Unfortunately, the conversion to EASA is expensive and a lot of hard work.

[RetiredBA/BY]

No offence but you'll get used to people like that. When you do eventually make it at an airline one day,(and with the right attitude, hard Work and a little luck you can...) you will then have the joy sitting next to them all day.. You'll be amazed at how your 3000th MEL-SYD sector with CAVOK at one end and B030 at the other end will feel like a space shuttle launch from Mt Everest.

Chances are you were called off standby to fly with them because the FO that was rostered called in sick. They can usually be found in the briefing room 20 minutes prior to sign on sitting alone. (Good preparation is key for a shuttle launch). They'll brief you on every NOTAM especially that taxiway in Sydney with 3 lights out even though it's ******* 11am. They'll ask your opinion on fuel but before you have a chance to answer, they'll interrupt you with the figure they have already lodged. You can almost feel their erection as they mentally congratulate themselves on some A+ CRM for including the FO. By the way, that fuel figure is usually company minimum. That's especially entertaining when you are bound for Darwin or Cairns in the wet season with no TEMPO on the TAF .

They walk needlessly fast, keen to get to aircraft like it's going to leave without them, usually 5 steps in front of you. They'll finish the brief with some form of the words "I'm 100% SOP." What will follow is a mix of 50% non SOP and 50% SOP from an FCOM that's over 10 years old. They are incredibly fast to notice if you selected the NAV lights on system 1 when today's date is an even day and thus it should be on system 2. They however don't notice their miss-set QNH and MCP ALT but you can just fix that silently when they leave for a pre flight toilet visit.

Your doing well if you've made it to line up clearance without gushing at the marvel of watching this sky god oztrnaught at work. He'll usually mention that there's bit of a crosswind from the left prior to rolling. You make note of about a 3 kt crosswind from the right but nod in agreeance anyway. You almost forgot to call V1 because you were too busy counting every centre line light that was hit on the take off roll. Note that he will mention that 1 you hit on your sector. Within 3 seconds of selecting gear up he will bark at you to ask ATC to cancel speed, but only if your initial departure track is 180 degrees in the wrong direction.

It's a summer afternoon and there is the usual build ups enroute, he'll be sure to avoid the small ones by 50nm and the big ones by 1nm. On the Bright side, if it's a very stormy day, you'll be on your way to having a 10/10 backside from all the arse cheek clenching you'll be doing.

TOPD is approaching, time for a briefing. This will be first conversation you've had in 30mins. He's spent the flight studying the Rivet arrival that hasn't changed much in twenty years. You've been debating whether you should call off sick in Sydney or suffer one more sector and get home tonight. You know you've lost it because for a moment you actually start to miss GA.. But you don't miss being poor and living in some **** hole like Darwin. You come to your senses and realise your at FL160 and haven't paid attention to anything that's happened in the last 10 mins. Time to focus. Concentration now is key. If your aircraft has some sort of smart VNAV system, FMS managed descent etc, the kind that makes it all easy he will almost certainly not use it.

You will be amazed at his butter smooth landing though. Smoothest you will ever feel, you'll never do better. Right at the end of the touch down zone too.
You will now feel your face hit the window as he manually brakes to make the high speed exit. "Fair bit of tailwind there, can't those idiot's in the Tower see it, let them know so they can think about changing runways" you note the 10kt headwind on the windsock and pass the message on anyway.
Your taxi speed stays steady at 30 kts, you begin wondering if he's going to hold short of the approaching runway. More clenching. You try not to laugh as ATC wait until you come to a screeching halt mere millimetres from the hold line to clear you to cross. They obviously know this guy is a ****wit too. You try not to laugh again when he stops short on the Up hill sloped NIGS. Thrust goes up to 45% N1 to get moving again. Part of you hopes he goes too far this time and a tug needs to be called out, just for the LOLs.
Your now shutdown at the gate. Your sector homebound.. He's going to be much more annoying. He'll find away to touch the FMC and MCP at least 5 times as much as on his sector. Smile and laugh, at least you don't Work in an office.

Okay so 95% Of the people you'll fly with are actually great guys and girl's. But these people do exist. Just do whats best for you and block out the noise. Some are probably just dirty they never got into QF. You'll make mistakes along the way and you won't always take the right path but who cares what they think. It's your journey and no one else's. We all take slightly different paths.
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and will he explain the difference between your and you’re ?

Even if the forum deletes the apostrophe !

[maggot]

Found him


....

[rowdy trousers]

The best thing about being PIC .......I get to fly with my favourite captain all the time.

[Keg]

The best thing about being PIC .......I get to fly with my favourite captain all the time.

I still find on occasion that he can be a tired and grumpy bugger! The nice thing is I only have to look in the mirror to find who is to blame.

[deja vu]

So firstly, shame on the men in here which have decided to spit on me for asking a question. I'm actually a female (parents from Croatia) and I am new to aviation but the hate messages I've received via my inbox would make you the troll (not me). Yes, I went to university here in Melbourne and yes I have around 200 hours now. I did the 150-hour integrated course which was part of a double major (Bachelor of Aviation & Business). A mentor suggested that doing the MCC & Jet Orientation course would help us stand out on the resume. I am also looking at doing a course on "airline interview tips". Any suggestions here? (without the haters please).

Thanks to some of you with insightful responses. Some of us at campus have looked at Darwin and Broome. There is also a "GA Ready" course we are looking at doing through Flight Standards. Has anyone had any experience with this course? Apparently the course will help getting a job in the northern area of the country.
So Petra really has it all worked out already, got a mentor, got a double major, so why ask? Also didn't miss the "I'm female" and men( are you sure?) spitting, but this will take you far. Don't see what the Croatian thing has to do with anything, but yes chuck it in anyway.

[billyt]

What a bunch of twats some of you guys are. Ignore them petra. Best of luck with achieving what you want.

[josephfeatherweight]

cLeArIcE - Post of the century - best laugh I've had on here for a long time. Many thanks for your wit - it's wasted in aviation!

[Mach E Avelli]

Petra, if you can accept the consensus here that there won’t be any airline jobs for low hour pilots for some time to come, you need to rethink your career path. This is not to say that you will never get an airline job, just that you won’t be getting one anywhere in the world for a year or five, or worst case maybe 10.
Having spent so much time and effort getting this far you should not walk away from aviation. But if you sit on your bum in a big city awaiting that airline job, no matter how many touchy-feely add on aviation ‘courses’ you do, nothing will substitute for a thousand or so hours real flying experience.
Redsnail in post#68 mentioned tourism based flying and having a First Aid certificate. Absolutely the best way to go, but I would add a commercial passenger vehicle licence and even an inshore coxswain ticket, rather than any more aviation bull**** qualifications that will only wither on the vine due lack of any requirement. Even trying to hold on to a MECIR at 200 hours is a dubious expenditure because not too many GA operators will put a newbie into the left seat of a twin, even if their insurance would allow it.
You have to set yourself apart from the pack by offering GA tourism operators skills they can use.
Also accept that tourist flying is likely to be seasonal, so all the more reason to have other skills that can earn money.

[deja vu]

clearice- If and when you ever get a command you will certainly be surprised to learn there are just as many arseholes in the right seat as there are in the left. You would think it doesn't matter since you are "in command" but believe me a smart arse, sycophantic, competitive know all ruins what should be a good day out or in some cases a 4 day trip out.
For the last 15 years of my career I was more intent in finding out who I was flying with rather than where I was going when the roster was published.
I would fly with these guys just after they were released to line, timid and unsure but 6 months later they thought they had it all worked out. Reminds me of my kids when they got to 16 and knew everything. As they progressed these smarties came up for command, many failed and of those who passed some turned to be complete tossers, according to the junior FOs who had to fly with them.

In your case clearice, how weak is it to just accept the Captain's fuel decision and not state your case for a different figure if you think it matters. And yeah, keep up, but I imagine swanning through the terminal in full braided uniform ticks your boxes. He thinks there is crosswind from the left but you know its from the right but you don't say anything. Busy counting centreline lights and almost forgetting to monitor and call V1, you have an unhealthy obsession to collect demerit points as a priority it would seem. And the idea of a shoulder harness is to prevent hitting the windshield/window, get with the program. Remarks about Darwin and how "part" of you want things to grow into an incident tell us more about you than anything else. An F for CRM for you my lad.
Did it ever occur to you to confront this guy, you know, face to face?, discuss what worries you, maybe it could be worked out, rather than using the anonymity of this Forum or the mob think of your contemporaries who reckon your post was brilliant. I think you owe the travelling public more than you are giving.

And what on earth ever made you think that a sector is yours, no such thing. If a Captain is kind enough to allow you to operate and manage HIS aircraft for a leg or two, be grateful and respectful.

[Bug Smasher Smasher]

Hahahahahahahaha! deja vu that was almost as funny as clearice’s original post.

[McLimit]

Maybe clearice and deja vu have met?

[PPRuNeUser0182]

deja vu :ugh::ugh::ugh:

clearice :}:D:ok:

[junior.VH-LFA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-gRWWTQpp0&ab_channel=bakerm8

[WillieTheWimp]

And what on earth ever made you think that a sector is yours, no such thing. If a Captain is kind enough to allow you to operate and manage HIS aircraft for a leg or two, be grateful and respectful.
Haha...OMG is this a joke. Maybe you should give yourself an F for CRM as well.

[das Uber Soldat]

Clearice wins the internet for today. 10/10, would read again.

Deja vu.. :ugh:
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[airdualbleedfault]

I've been a Skipper for a coupla decades and Deja has at least one thing right, the "roster management" doesn't stop when you change seats :hmm:

[ACMS]

Haha...OMG is this a joke. Maybe you should give yourself an F for CRM as well.


What part about that is a joke to you?

[morno]

Far out déjà vu, take a joke mate.

Clearly the post must have been written about you :cool:

It’s 2021, not 1985.

Clearice, funny as mate. I enjoyed that. I’ve sat in both seats and can attest that those types of people do exist in both seats, but the way you wrote it topped it :D

[novice110]

Morno can you ring the regulator and tell 'em it's 2021 ? - I don't think they have caught up with changing the legislation !

PIC responsible for the safety of flight regardless of who is manipulating the controls.

[WillieTheWimp]

What part about that is a joke to you?
The irony...

[pinkpanther1]

clearice- If and when you ever get a command you will certainly be surprised to learn there are just as many arseholes in the right seat as there are in the left. You would think it doesn't matter since you are "in command" but believe me a smart arse, sycophantic, competitive know all ruins what should be a good day out or in some cases a 4 day trip out.
For the last 15 years of my career I was more intent in finding out who I was flying with rather than where I was going when the roster was published.
I would fly with these guys just after they were released to line, timid and unsure but 6 months later they thought they had it all worked out. Reminds me of my kids when they got to 16 and knew everything. As they progressed these smarties came up for command, many failed and of those who passed some turned to be complete tossers, according to the junior FOs who had to fly with them.

In your case clearice, how weak is it to just accept the Captain's fuel decision and not state your case for a different figure if you think it matters. And yeah, keep up, but I imagine swanning through the terminal in full braided uniform ticks your boxes. He thinks there is crosswind from the left but you know its from the right but you don't say anything. Busy counting centreline lights and almost forgetting to monitor and call V1, you have an unhealthy obsession to collect demerit points as a priority it would seem. And the idea of a shoulder harness is to prevent hitting the windshield/window, get with the program. Remarks about Darwin and how "part" of you want things to grow into an incident tell us more about you than anything else. An F for CRM for you my lad.
Did it ever occur to you to confront this guy, you know, face to face?, discuss what worries you, maybe it could be worked out, rather than using the anonymity of this Forum or the mob think of your contemporaries who reckon your post was brilliant. I think you owe the travelling public more than you are giving.

And what on earth ever made you think that a sector is yours, no such thing. If a Captain is kind enough to allow you to operate and manage HIS aircraft for a leg or two, be grateful and respectful.

Sorry mate but don't be that guy. Unless you're paying the lease, insurance, fuel bill and landing fees it's not the Captain's aircraft either, it's the company's. Pretty sure any captain that hogged every sector would be getting a chat with the Senior Base.
it's that SkyGod, mentality that people can't stand and is more unsafe than any 'arrogant FO'. Learn to take a joke mate, jesus.

I'm left seat too and I thought it was a brilliant post.

[morno]

Morno can you ring the regulator and tell 'em it's 2021 ? - I don't think they have caught up with changing the legislation !

PIC responsible for the safety of flight regardless of who is manipulating the controls.

No **** sherlock :ugh:.

Take a chill pill. It's still possible to be the Captain and actually work with your F/O.

Not hard to tell who the Captains are that match the description in Clearice's post.

[FMS82]

Oh good lord, what a gift this whole thread is.

You give some people custody over a big shiny company asset for a bit and they promptly believe they are the reason the sun rose in the morning. Bunch of self important idiots.

As for the op; put in the work, and you'll have a rewarding career. Ignore the tossers on display on this forum. Aviation is filled with great people, and most of them have better stuff to do than lurkinh around here.

Good luck

[Lookleft]

Aviation is filled with great people, and most of them have better stuff to do than lurkinh around here.

So does that mean if you are "lurkinh around here" that you are not one of aviation's great people? To the OP. Aviation is in a serious slump at the moment so the pilots who will ultimately fulfill their dream are those who are focused, hard working and persistent. Anything less than that and you won't make it.

[Green.Dot]

If in the job interview they ask have you read this book just answer “yes I have, I found it really interesting”. :ok:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/418x604/845baaa1_f429_4a91_bdf8_58270b341d00_331da20a5cf160397961472 268f7ebe254c0cef4.jpeg

[Lookleft]

Wasn't the legend from QF32 going to rewrite it? With the "big jets" all grounded the new version should be "Flying the Light Twin".

[Green.Dot]

Wasn't the legend from QF32 going to rewrite it? With the "big jets" all grounded the new version should be "Flying the Light Twin".

Yep, definitely needs a re-write, mainly focusing on the importance of prioritising V1 calls over counting runway lights. :}

[j3pipercub]

clearice,

Well done, what a ride. Did they ever use the phrase 'Back in Ansett'?

Deja Vu,

Ain't YOUR aircraft champ, grow up muppet.

j3

[cLeArIcE]

Haha wow I didn't think my light hearted, insomnia produced post (at 3am) to lighten the mood around here would trigger a few individuals . 😅
Im going to assume that you are doing the same back because if you are not then... It says alot more about you then it does about me. While I am an FO now, you assume I've never had a command before. The roster checking absolutely goes both ways but usually for different reasons.
Anyway, I'll see you at the next launch sir. I'll be there about 3 minutes before sign on with my coffee and no, I haven't read the wx and NOTAMs at home.

[maverick22]

Haha wow I didn't think my light hearted, insomnia produced post (at 3am) to lighten the mood around here would trigger a few individuals . 😅
Im going to assume that you are doing the same back because if you are not then... It says alot more about you then it does about me. While I am an FO now, you assume I've never had a command before. The roster checking absolutely goes both ways but usually for different reasons.
Anyway, I'll see you at the next launch sir. I'll be there about 3 minutes before sign on with my coffee and no, I haven't read the wx and NOTAMs at home.

3 mins! Why you showing up so early Clearice 🤣🤣

[V-Jet]

Wasn't the legend from QF32 going to rewrite it? With the "big jets" all grounded the new version should be "Flying the Light Twin".

Discrepancy now has even more time to give that rewrite some thought. 'How I fly the Super' or something equally as Austranaughty:)

Back to Petra's issue (apart from the being female, Croatian having a Batchelor of Aviation and Business etc, etc) forget the courses, I agree with others about the money. There's no 'right' path - and it certainly isn't easy. There are (especially now) far, far, FAR easier ways to make a lot more money than any pilot will earn, particularly after this unmitigated disaster has been fully used to attack crew awards. This book shows an interesting path that many here would be very familiar with. I would suggest it to anyone - especially starting out it points out a lot good stuff along with there being no 'right' way.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Flying-Knife-Edge-Guinea-Pilot-ebook/dp/B00XJYYL90

Clearice - Thanks for the wonderful summary! One glaring omission I'd like to make special mention of. The term 'on guard':)

[FMS82]

So does that mean if you are "lurkinh around here" that you are not one of aviation's great people?

No.

That's why I wrote "most of them". Some truly great folk are contributing with their knowledge, experience or great sense of humour and that's what keeps me coming back (mostly lurking I might add...)

[McLimit]

Wasn't the legend from QF32 going to rewrite it?

Listen to the podcast Mark Bouris did with him, I haven't heard so much rambling **** in a lifetime. Such a Sully wannabe.

[the_rookie]

Not going to get a Qantas gig without completing the GA ready course.

[galdian]

Not going to get a Qantas gig without completing the GA ready course.

And there I was thinking the training for a Commercial Licence was, in itself, supposed to make you "Commercial Ready".

In fairness maybe the "GA Awareness Course" details whether you should, on a Friday afternoon, start washing the aircraft at the pointy end or the tail end?
If so - worth its weight in gold! :ok:

[morno]

And there I was thinking the training for a Commercial Licence was, in itself, supposed to make you "Commercial Ready".

In fairness maybe the "GA Awareness Course" details whether you should, on a Friday afternoon, start washing the aircraft at the pointy end or the tail end?
If so - worth its weight in gold! :ok:

The pointy end, no one gives a **** about the tail. And by the time you get there you’re 5 beers deep and with zero f*cks left :ok:

[grottyyottie]

Young Sir,
You might consider playing it real smart and heading for Europe, Ireland or the UK where the real growth has always existed and always will. Multi sector days, 900 hours a year, great CRM and multi cultural flight crew who treat each other politely. It would be a big step to make but it could work out for you. You don't even have to run a Poodle Parlour in Rose Bay to succeed. An added bonus is that there are no little breast pocket list of surnames kept and used.
Asia has lost its appeal for the long term, unless you are a national and can tolerate their special brand of CRM.
Good luck with your choices.
gy

[redsnail]

Right now, Europe is dead in water WRT flying jobs. (A bit like Australia I guess).
However, historically, it has rebounded faster than Australia, especially with the jet jobs.
But it's not a case of "I have a CPL/IR with 250 hours, where's my jet job?" - not going to happen unless you're very very lucky.
Most low houred jet FO positions go to the tagged integrated courses.

Converting the licence will take a while and a lot of cost too. (Not to mention the UK/EU Brexit bunfight).

[Green.Dot]

Young Sir,


I’m sure she really appreciates your advice

[grottyyottie]

Sorry, Ma'am,
I should have read more of the earlier posts. Yup, try the UK and Euro land and grab some action when it starts up again.
24 different flight deck nationalities in one euro airline and few of them will know what a Darwin Tinny is !
The public is frothing at the mouth for the smell of burnt jet A1.
gy

[Green.Dot]

:ok:Here’s hoping everyone around the world gets back to smelling freshly cooked kero at the airport soon

[petra.oskertrich1995]

Thanks for the messages and advice. I have received some helpful personal messages and some, not so good. I will work on getting qualified in a Cessna 206 and Caravan. I'll wait 6 months for the market to improve and then move to Darwin to explore options there. I really wished the course co-ordinator made this kind of pathway clear in the beginning. Now that I am over $100,000 debt, I will need to take personal loan of around $10,000 or maybe more to cover more endorsement. There is part of me that feels like I have made a horrible career mistake and before signing up, was misled out of alot of money which I don't know how I can pay back.

Yes, returning to Croatia is an option but the EASA conversion is very expensive. I will need to re-sit all 14 exams again and the government won't provide a student loan for aviation study.

Thanks again for your help everyone.

[megan]

start washing the aircraft at the pointy end or the tail endAerodynamics taught me the tail end was the pointy end, has something changed? :p

[Flyboy1987]

Thanks for the messages and advice. I have received some helpful personal messages and some, not so good. I will work on getting qualified in a Cessna 206 and Caravan. I'll wait 6 months for the market to improve and then move to Darwin to explore options there. I really wished the course co-ordinator made this kind of pathway clear in the beginning. Now that I am over $100,000 debt, I will need to take personal loan of around $10,000 or maybe more to cover more endorsement. There is part of me that feels like I have made a horrible career mistake and before signing up, was misled out of alot of money which I don't know how I can pay back.

Yes, returning to Croatia is an option but the EASA conversion is very expensive. I will need to re-sit all 14 exams again and the government won't provide a student loan for aviation study.

Thanks again for your help everyone.

Welcome to Australian Aviation.

Universities telling students they’ll be employed in airlines after completing a CPL and taking 120k off each student.

Vet-fee help needs to stop.

[Agent_86]

I really wished the course co-ordinator made this kind of pathway clear in the beginning. Now that I am over $100,000 debt,

You took the risk, own it. Why is it always someone else's fault? :\

[Keg]

I'll wait 6 months for the market to improve and then move to Darwin to explore options there.

Whilst hopefully in 6 months things have improved it will also be the end of the dry season in the NT. If you were going to go, I’d consider whether going now (and doing an endorsement up there) may be a better option... particularly given that Aussies will likely be travelling more to the top end in Easter and July holidays than they probably have previously.

Just a thought. Others closer to the action up there may have some info to add.

[TurningFinalRWY36]

I'd say get up there sooner rather than later. Make sure your ATPLs are done (too many say they will do it up there and never do), get your first aid certificate and maybe a light rigid vehicle licence so you can drive a minibus as well, may come in handy. A lot can happen in 6 months so not worth waiting

[Mach E Avelli]

You took the risk, own it. Why is it always someone else's fault? :\
Steady on, I don't see that she is blaming someone else. A couple of years ago her projected career path would have been a reasonable risk, such was the market then.

Petra I would advise you not to wait 6 months for the market to improve up north, as that would put you at the start of the wet season when much of the tourism work slows down. Go the C206; save your money for the turbine kit later, when you have a definite flying job. Like the IFR twin is expecting too much, they won't turn you loose in a million dollar turbine with 200 hours. If you are really, really good (and are lucky) you may even find your employer will pay for any upgrade training in return for a bond. Some pilots don't approve of bonds, but if done fairly it can work in your favour.
Unless it has changed since my early days, the usual is to head north about easter and start the door-knocking process then, while trying to get whatever other work is to be had to keep you alive.
As for ATPL subjects, I see you already have them. But don't make a big deal of this! Your typical GA tourist operator has no need of the ATPL and in fact if they think you are just there to build hours pending an airline slot it could go against you.

[petra.oskertrich1995]

Thanks again to the private messages. I have read them and thank you! Some can't come through because my inbox is full. I will look at the C206 and possibly turbine (C208) over the next few months and maybe I will miss the wet season this year?

I am not blaming anyone for my very expensive student debt. Of course I made the decision. But this university should have been more transparent in the beginning... that is all.

Thanks to all of the positive messages.

[redsnail]

100% agree with those who are saying don't bother with the Caravan endorsement. A couple of hours in a C206 won't hurt though. That's the main aeroplane of choice "up North". First Aid, Dangerous Goods etc much much more useful. Barista and or beer pouring skills useful too. (Save the beer drinking skills until after you have that job).
Spend a few hours researching scenic operators "up North". Find out who they are, the boss's name, aircraft types etc.
Whatever you do, please don't think your very expensive super school licence makes you better than the grey haired time worn chief pilot (he/she's only 35 but years of Bungles and the Tavern have taken their toll).
Back in my day, it was usual to arrive in town (Kununurra) Feb/March, get any sort of job, keep your nose clean and hope you get the magic call. :) This was the early 90s... So - of course, that info may be well out of date.
This is the info your school should have been up to speed on because this is the reality for the vast number of new pilots in Australia, so shame on the school. (You weren't to know that).

As for Europe? The exams are a pain but that is the relatively cheap part of the deal. There's nothing stopping you from studying the ATPLs now and in a few years time, flying over and doing the famous 2 x 2 week crammer courses if you decide Europe might be a better option. Also, hopefully the whole EU/UK Brexit bunfight will have settled down with a bit more flexibility WRT UK CAA v EASA licences. A few of us have made the journey to Europe and fortunately, it paid off. :)

Good luck.

PS - giggling at "das Uber Soldat's" comment. :D

[das Uber Soldat]

Hire a twin and do a wheels up. You'll get the call from mainline in no time.

[Superman1]

Wow Petras story makes you remember how lucky the JQ cadets were....talk about a lotto ticket

[Roj approved]

Wow Petras story makes you remember how lucky the JQ cadets were....talk about a lotto ticket

And then just as they where on the cusp of a command, some of them left to go to QF😩😩

[Global Aviator]

A few on here need a trip around up North. I’ve been to a few places recently after not being for many years.

I was amazed at the amount of Caravans, Conquests, King Airs & PC12’s! Yes certainly still the piston fleets as well but the turbines certainly seem to be on the increase.

If you can afford the turbine ticket it could be just another thing to put you in front of the bloke pulling beer next to you. Certainly not a priority though. IFR/ATPL in the back pocket first.

[Australopithecus]

What is the deal with the turbine ticket? If you can keep a biggish piston engine healthy and efficient you should be able to grasp turbine operations in a couple of minutes. Push-button start just isn’t that hard.

[morno]

What is the deal with the turbine ticket? If you can keep a biggish piston engine healthy and efficient you should be able to grasp turbine operations in a couple of minutes. Push-button start just isn’t that hard.

These days a gas turbine endorsement is a thing. One less training course an operator needs to provide I guess

[Australopithecus]

Still not getting it. Is a separate ticket required to operate an Pratt R-985? How about a Lycoming TIGO-541?
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/870x718/e5d834bb_663c_4b7b_bda2_ed1c3e4885dc_7486eaf5b4f41d98f6b1b64 7c09fa2963548654d.jpeg

[morno]

Still not getting it. Is a separate ticket required to operate an Pratt R-985? How about a Lycoming TIGO-541?
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/870x718/e5d834bb_663c_4b7b_bda2_ed1c3e4885dc_7486eaf5b4f41d98f6b1b64 7c09fa2963548654d.jpeg

If you fly an aircraft with a turbine, have a look on your license. GTE will appear on their somewhere.

Don’t quote me on it, but I’m pretty sure it’s a course these days as part of doing a type rating on a turbine powered aeroplane.

[WillieTheWimp]

It is a design feature in Part 61, the same as the retractable undercarriage, etc.

[Mach E Avelli]

Still not getting it. Is a separate ticket required to operate an Pratt R-985? How about a Lycoming TIGO-541?


No separate ticket but if you read the fine print in Part 61 you will find a requirement to have completed sufficient training on the differences. Any operator valuing his equipment would demand that anyway. In the event of a claim because some dildo blew an engine to bits the insurer would want to know what training and experience the pilot had.
As for a separate gas turbine endorsement, for once this is not something CASA dreamed up. Many other ICAO States have required it since I was a boy, over 50 years ago. I recall the exam then being quite comprehensive. The most recent 'approved' GTE exam I saw was pretty basic stuff.
Are turbines more tricky to drive than supercharged radials or geared turbos ? Obviously not. But older turbines that still prevail in much of the GA fleet don't have the protections of the latest kit. The consequences of cooking one could exceed half a million bucks, as opposed to blowing a jug on your R985 - which could cost 10% of that.
Not too many operators would turn a 200 hour CPL loose on complex engines, which is why the OP would be spending unneccesary money at this stage.

[neville_nobody]

Hire a twin and do a wheels up. You'll get the call from mainline in no time.

:D:}

Or run it out of fuel.