Grey insulation in military aircraft

[tartare]

Hello all,
purely out of interest, what's the name of that grey-coloured, quilted insulation you often see lining military aircraft flight decks and cabins?
Has a shiny, plasticky surface appearance, but no doubt fireproof...
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6215/6332700798_ab780aac28_b.jpg

[heights good]

Hello all,
purely out of interest, what's the name of that grey-coloured, quilted insulation you often see lining military aircraft flight decks and cabins?
Has a shiny, plasticky surface appearance, but no doubt fireproof...
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6215/6332700798_ab780aac28_b.jpg

Soundproofing

[ancientaviator62]

On the RAF C130K it was not soundproofing but merely an insulation blanket between the a/c skin and the cabin. As for being fireproof it gave off Phosgene gas and other noxious gases when heated to approx 800 degrees C.

[reds & greens]

On the RAF C130J it did a remarkably good job of keeping all the engine noise inside the aircraft.

[charliegolf]

On the RAF C130J it did a remarkably good job of keeping all the engine noise inside the aircraft.

Knowing RAF/MODPE it was probably twice the cost of the stuff that would keep the noise out, too!

CG

[Headstone]

If I remember correctly one of the factors contributing the Swissair crash off the Canadian coast in the late 1990s was that the cabin insulation in the aircraft was flammable and helped spread the fire above and behind the cockpit area. Not the actual cause of it but it helped spread the fire.

[ancientaviator62]

It was a major contribution to the fatalities after the Belgian AF crashed at Eindhoven. When I did the HEART job we visited Abbey Wood to ask a few questions ref the' J' which was still waiting to be introduced into service. They knew nothing of the insulation blanket problems nor of any of the other materials in the cargo compartment. They were also ignorant, among many other things of the noise problems on the 'J' which we had heard on the grapevine were much worse then the 'K' !

[tucumseh]

Knowing RAF/MODPE it was probably twice the cost of the stuff that would keep the noise out, too!

CG


When Sea King AEW Mk2s became the first a/c to have an integrated ANR in 1997, the scientists said one of the 'selling points' would be the system negated the need for soundproofing, thus reducing weight, and increasing fuel load and time on task.

It was pointed out that the real purpose of 'soundproofing' was to protect the precious wiring, hydraulic pipes, etc. underneath it from prying fingers and stray boots. Only the soundproofing out of harms way could be removed, and only then if the a/c remained within CogG limits; which was marginal.

At the time, the main cause of failure of one of the MAW LRUs beneath the seats in the Mk4 was 'bayonet insertion' into the cooling intake/fan, by bored RMs.

[diginagain]

Hello all,
purely out of interest, what's the name of that grey-coloured, quilted insulation you often see lining military aircraft flight decks and cabins?
Has a shiny, plasticky surface appearance, but no doubt fireproof...
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6215/6332700798_ab780aac28_b.jpg
That Risbridger would be better-off sitting in the well behind the three-man seat in a cut-down detergent drum. Oh, and you could hardly call it "soundproofing", more like a barrier between the pax and various fluids. View out the front was much better.

[Thud_and_Blunder]

View out the front was much better.
In a Lynx? My instructor described it as sitting inside the hallway of a bungalow and looking out through the letterbox.:sad:

[diginagain]

In a Lynx? My instructor described it as sitting inside the hallway of a bungalow and looking out through the letterbox.:sad:

Better than the square window in the cabin door....

Which a few, usually Booties, thought WAS the cabin door.

[gums]

Salute!

Do not overlook the other considerations of that batting.
In one plane I flew, a variant looked just like that and was fire resistant, but also ballistic resistant! It was like flak jacket material.....

..Gums recalls

[galaxy flyer]

It was green on some years of the C-5, varied on supplier, I’d guess.

[kiwi grey]

Salute!

Do not overlook the other considerations of that batting.
In one plane I flew, a variant looked just like that and was fire resistant, but also ballistic resistant! It was like flak jacket material.....

..Gums recalls

I think they call the ballistic resistant stuff a "spall liner"

[ancientaviator62]

It was a dirty sort of green on the 'K' too.

[Jackjones1]

As an aside when weighing a 747 they used to allow a weight of 1 tonne for condensation with the sound proofing material!!

[[email protected]]

In a Lynx? My instructor described it as sitting inside the hallway of a bungalow and looking out through the letterbox.https://www.pprune.org/images/smilies/puppy_dog_eyes.gif The Lynx was better than the Wessex - that was frequently described as flying a council house from the upstairs bog window:)

The Sea King had a brilliant soundproofing removal capability - if the drain valve on the heater feed from the combustion chamber to the cabin heating system failed (ie blew out as it was on a 90 degree bend and was prone to vibration fractures) it a. frightened the sh8t out of all the crew as it sounded like something properly major had just gone wrong and b. shredded the soundproofing around it and distributed it around the cabin. Big problem was that you couldn't turn it off, unless you shut down an engine:)

[ancientaviator62]

Condensation was between the blanket and the cargo compartment roof was one of the 'K' party tricks. It froze in flight and as you descended it thawed and showered the pax with icy water.

[John Eacott]

The Lynx was better than the Wessex - that was frequently described as flying a council house from the upstairs bog window:)

Try the Whirlwind for 'more frame than window' vision!

The Sea King had a brilliant soundproofing removal capability - if the drain valve on the heater feed from the combustion chamber to the cabin heating system failed (ie blew out as it was on a 90 degree bend and was prone to vibration fractures) it a. frightened the sh8t out of all the crew as it sounded like something properly major had just gone wrong and b. shredded the soundproofing around it and distributed it around the cabin. Big problem was that you couldn't turn it off, unless you shut down an engine:)

Heater? Sea King?

Luxury, lad, shear luxury :p You'll be putting the kettle on for a cuppa next, I s'pose ;)

[spekesoftly]

DeHavilland DH106 Comet 4 G-APDB Cockpit

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/De_Havilland_DH106_Comet_4_G-APDB_Cockpit.JPG/1920px-De_Havilland_DH106_Comet_4_G-APDB_Cockpit.JPG

[Mr N Nimrod]

If I remember correctly one of the factors contributing the Swissair crash off the Canadian coast in the late 1990s was that the cabin insulation in the aircraft was flammable and helped spread the fire above and behind the cockpit area. Not the actual cause of it but it helped spread the fire.
The Swissair MD11 led to a lot of changes to the insulation on transport category aircraft. The insulation is used for both thermal and acoustic insulation. It also provides some protection against pooling fuel fires on the ground - increasing the time available for evacuation.

The material on the Swissair MD11 was a contributor - AN26? Together with polyimide (kapton) wiring as the likely ignition source. Subsequently replaced by better materials. It cost the airlines a lot to replace - it is not an easy job.

[tartare]

Speke - I am trying to guess what type of office that is.
Nimrod?

[spekesoftly]

Tartare - close, it's a DH Comet 4 flight deck.


And with thanks to Senior Pilot for fixing my image link problem!

[Fareastdriver]

If you put one of today's airline pilots behind all those levers and switches he would have to be led away for counselling.

[OKOC]

Condensation was between the blanket and the cargo compartment roof was one of the 'K' party tricks. It froze in flight and as you descended it thawed and showered the pax with icy water.
And, during the time when smoking was permitted on Hercs, the icy water had a lovely brown nicotine tint to it.

[OKOC]

DeHavilland DH106 Comet 4 G-APDB Cockpit

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/De_Havilland_DH106_Comet_4_G-APDB_Cockpit.JPG/1920px-De_Havilland_DH106_Comet_4_G-APDB_Cockpit.JPG
Was that the "Twin Fan" varient?

[tartare]

Condensation was between the blanket and the cargo compartment roof was one of the 'K' party tricks. It froze in flight and as you descended it thawed and showered the pax with icy water.

Indeed - was a personal victim of that happening up the front of the C130.
As a keen as mustard young PPL with a newly minted 152 rating, was fortunate to find myself on RNZAF 03, down to the ice and back in 95.
On approach into ChCh, I asks if I can watch from the flight deck.
"Sure," says the driver, "...just stand behind my seat and hold onto the frame, you'll see exactly what I am seeing."
Crikey - standing up behind the pilot - these military guys sure do get to do things differently than civvy street...
As we broke through the cloud layer on finals - the damn plane started dripping on everyone - various sighs around the flight deck as people mopped up...

[Ken Scott]

A typical ‘joke’ on the C130K was for the FE to use a Nav rule to feed the drips down the co-pilot’s neck while they were flying the approach...

[ancientaviator62]

The other 'trick of the C130 was to collect rain water in the insulation blanket underneath the escape hatches This too would eventually add to the cascade of freezing condesation water .

[Rigga]

I was privy to a condensation investigation for a v large charter airline where the subject 757 was producing an average of 8 gallons of water per holiday flight...from the cockpit.
In my humble opinion, the grey insulation used by in military helicopters is to absorb as much hydraulic and gearbox oils as possible in order to hide the evidence in case of fire.

[ExAscoteer2]

A typical ‘joke’ on the C130K was for the FE to use a Nav rule to feed the drips down the co-pilot’s neck while they were flying the approach...

I had a Flt Eng try that with me. He got rather a shock when I swapped hands on the yoke, reached into my Nav Bag, grabbed MY Nav Rule, turned and twatted the muppet in the face with it, before continuing the approach. He never tried giving me ess aitch one tee ee again after that.

[tartare]

Condensation tricks.
Had a work colleague cameraman who was sent up for a ride in an RNZAF T-A4K.
Sat in the back seat as he was strapped in and told "we'll just test the air ventilation to ensure it's working..."
Got a face-full of fine condensation mist - oh how they all smirked.
He was a rather obnoxious chap...

[TBM-Legend]

On the RAF C130J it did a remarkably good job of keeping all the engine noise inside the aircraft.


Noise you say! Try 8+ hours in the C-130A [RAAF] with the big three bladed props beating the air into submission and sharing the vibrations and noise with the inhabitants...