Contra-rotating helicopter now based on Mars

[peterperfect]

Fellow Rotorheads, I think it's a great time to jointly celebrate the fact that a rotary-winged unmanned aircraft is now based on Mars following NASAs successful Perseverance Rover landing today. When it launches for an area survey we should collectively (yes pun intended) celebrate pushing aerodynamic lift aviation frontiers further, higher and more distant from Earth than any fixed wing lift machine ever did ! Aptly named Ingenuity. pp.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/985x554/pia23720_1041_1de25c857c43f30a4e68ad194c9e11292b03d217.jpg

[havick]

Fellow Rotorheads, I think it's a great time to jointly celebrate the fact that a rotary-winged unmanned aircraft is now based on Mars following NASAs successful Perseverance Rover landing today. When it launches for an area survey we should collectively (yes pun intended) celebrate pushing aerodynamic lift aviation frontiers further, higher and more distant from Earth than any fixed wing lift machine ever did ! Aptly named Ingenuity. pp.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/985x554/pia23720_1041_1de25c857c43f30a4e68ad194c9e11292b03d217.jpg

This is pretty awesome!!

[Tickle]

Thanks for sharing, didn't know they were doing this. Proud to be a helicopter fan today!

[nomorehelosforme]

More news hereWhen will the helicopter launch?It will be around 10 sols - or Martian days which are about 40 minutes longer than Earth days - before Nasa plans to deploy its onboard helicopter.

It will be the first remote flight on another planet, and is one of the most exciting elements of the Perseverance project.

Scientists say about five flights are planned for the helicopter, dubbed Ingenuity, over the next 30 days.


https://www.bbc.com/news/live/science-environment-56101496

[tdracer]

Nice article in the Smithsonian Air and Space Magazine:

NASA's Helicopter Ingenuity Will Attempt the First Flight on Mars | Science | Smithsonian Magazine (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/nasas-helicopter-ingenuity-will-attempt-first-flight-mars-180976958/)

[jolihokistix]

How and where will it shelter in a (dust) storm? Could the rover come along and to some degree protect this rotor craft?

[Agile]

it is packed into the rover, and comes down from bellow the rover under belly
Very thin air on Mars, those propelers run at 2500RPM, very short autonomy too.
usefull life of the helicopter is limited to 30 flights I think I heard.

[Nigel Osborn]

If they want a pilot to go to Mars to fly a helicopter in the future as it takes 7 years to travel each way, as I haven't got 14 years left in me, I think I'll give it a miss!

[DogTailRed2]

How and where will it shelter in a (dust) storm? Could the rover come along and to some degree protect this rotor craft?
Wasn't one of the surprising things learnt about Mars is the wind and dust is very light.
I seem to recall previous rovers were expected to have a limited life span due to dust build up on the solar panels but this never happened. Which is why the older rovers are still going, or at least went for a lot longer than expected.

[[email protected]]

That Smithsonian article is well worth a read - as a technology demonstrator it is an incredible achievement, it weighs less than 4 lbs and will fly at an Earth equivalent of 100,000'!!!

[md 600 driver]

Does the operator need a licence or permit to pilot the helicopter on Mars and who woukd they apply too

[Fareastdriver]

it takes 7 years to travel each way

Launched on 30 July 2020; nearer seven months.

[albatross]

Does the operator need a licence or permit to pilot the helicopter on Mars and who woukd they apply too
Don’t think so unless Marvin works for the Martian CAA. (We don’t want any “Earth Shattering Kabooms”).
I think it’s all uncontrolled airspace.anyhow and there are no 5 Star hotels for the inspectors to stay in so chances of a base inspection are slim to nil.

[TURIN]

Launched on 30 July 2020; nearer seven months.

Yep, and Elon Musk/SpaceX reckon they can get it down to one month!

They didn't say how.

[andycba]

it is packed into the rover, and comes down from bellow the rover under belly
Very thin air on Mars, those propelers run at 2500RPM, very short autonomy too.
usefull life of the helicopter is limited to 30 flights I think I heard.

Never underestimate the power of a droid

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_(rover) - expected life 90 sols, actual life >5,000 sols

[skadi]

Yep, and Elon Musk/SpaceX reckon they can get it down to one month!

They didn't say how.

Its all about power. Refuelling a spacecraft like Starship in earthorbit should solve the problem. The part from launchpad to orbit needs most power

Skadi

[old,not bold]

If they want a pilot to go to Mars to fly a helicopter in the future as it takes 7 years to travel each way, as I haven't got 14 years left in me, I think I'll give it a miss!
Who said anything about coming back? Let's have some commitment here.

[Jetstream67]

Anyone know if a UK licence is ok there ? :rolleyes:

[Beamr]

Don’t think so unless Marvin works for the Martian CAA. (We don’t want any “Earth Shattering Kabooms”).
I think it’s all uncontrolled airspace.anyhow and there are no 5 Star hotels for the inspectors to stay in so chances of a base inspection are slim to nil.
so, one could get in to business without a local license and other nonsense. Where can one sign?

[RodH]

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/700x368/mars_2_2e2aa53c2db0fb29082c93290f4b8c9cd06dff7b.jpg

[etudiant]

Wasn't one of the surprising things learnt about Mars is the wind and dust is very light.
I seem to recall previous rovers were expected to have a limited life span due to dust build up on the solar panels but this never happened. Which is why the older rovers are still going, or at least went for a lot longer than expected.

Not sure about that, think the Curiosity panels are down to about 23% of clean panel power because of the dust, with no easy fix in sight..Future martians may need a whisk broom as their national emblem>

[LRP]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/300x300/mars_e948f1f864180b48642a26121666b9c57759f603.jpg

[rotormatic]

Does the operator need a licence or permit to pilot the helicopter on Mars and who woukd they apply too

public use aircraft...

[skadi]

Not sure about that, think the Curiosity panels are down to about 23% of clean panel power because of the dust, with no easy fix in sight..Future martians may need a whisk broom as their national emblem>

Curiosity is powered by isotope battery, no solar cells!

skadi

[NutLoose]

Anyone know if a UK licence is ok there ? :rolleyes:

It might be, but you will have to wait until they build a hotel so you can isolate for 14 days upon arrival.

[Bell_ringer]

Anyone know if a UK licence is ok there ? :rolleyes:

You can use a Martian license in the UK, but not a UK license on Mars.
Thats the way the #MARSBARS agreement was negotiated, but good news. It’s a soft border, just don’t order oysters. :E

[ApolloHeli]

I'd posted a thread about this helicopter (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/624476-mars-autonomous-helicopter.html) back in August 2019 but there wasn't any discussion on it. Here's a great video with more details on the helicopter:

https://youtu.be/GhsZUZmJvaM

[jimjim1]

Curiosity is powered by isotope battery, no solar cells!

According to the video filmed at NASA and linked in post #27 it has solar cells and a rechargeable battery. The solar cells are in the small panel above the blades. A one day charge fully charges the battery and allows a 90 second (I think it was) flight.

I don't think Atomic batteries are used very often because of the concern of the results of them falling back to Earth in the event of some failure.

[skadi]

According to the video filmed at NASA and linked in post #27 it has solar cells and a rechargeable battery. The solar cells are in the small panel above the blades. A one day charge fully charges the battery and allows a 90 second (I think it was) flight.

I don't think Atomic batteries are used very often because of the concern of the results of them falling back to Earth in the event of some failure.

I referred to post#21: Curiosity is the first rover, powered by isotope battery. Inguenity, the helicopter transported with rover Persevance, ( also with isotope battery ) is powered by solar cells.

skadi

[Droop Snoot]

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/985x554/image_31d33a984b580d11950e09e5dea8dac2da1794ad.png


A Martian Kamov-er and thought the Russians sent Ingenuity!:D

[Haraka]

Dont forget Ken Wallis flew one of his autogiros "on Mars" for the Ray Bradbury " Martian Chronicles" film

[Winemaker]

Not sure about that, think the Curiosity panels are down to about 23% of clean panel power because of the dust, with no easy fix in sight..Future martians may need a whisk broom as their national emblem>
And of course the Perseverance rover is powered by heat from Plutonium radioactive decay; I wonder how long it will operate?

[skadi]

And of course the Perseverance rover is powered by heat from Plutonium radioactive decay; I wonder how long it will operate?

More than 10 years:

https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/144/about-how-long-will-curiosity-last-on-its-nuclear-power

skadi

[roscoe1]

I can only begin to imagine the work and engineering that went into building the helicopter drone they are about to fly on Mars and although we have many problems to solve here, on the only planet we are likley to inhabit for a long while or even ever, I believe the money is well spent for reasons most on this forum would not doubt.

However, I read something that stuck in my craw today about one of the little " easter eggs" they packed away on the the little Mars ship. A postage stamp sized piece of original fabric from the Wright flier is abord the rotorcraft. I do appreciate the sentiment and the fact that they made the gesture, even as wrong headed as I find it. Many of you have seen the quote below so forgive me for that. The Wrights brothers were not fans of the helicopter ever being practical beyond the childs toy that consists of a one piece set of blades glued to a stick that gets spun up between your palms and makes short hops across the room, until Mom points out that " you're gonna put someone's eye out with that thing, take it outside!". One of those things was apparently early inspiration for them to start the whole thing about flying around, so there is a connection to helicopters albeit a weak one. "Like all novices we began with the helicopter in childhood, but soon saw that the helicopter had no future, and dropped it. The helicopter does with great labor only what the balloon does without labor, and is no more fitted than the balloon for rapid horizontal flight. If its engine stops, it must fall with deathly violence, for it can neither glide like the aeroplane or float like the balloon. The helicopter is much easier to design than the aeroplane, but is worthless when done.

Wilbur Wright, letter written in 1907. Quoted in the 1954 book Miracle at Kitty Hawk: The Letters of Wilbur and Orville Wright."
Clearly they were not future casters in the vein of Leonardo, Jules Vern, or hey.....how about Sikorsky or Juan de la Cierva. Maybe there are no people at JPL who know who Arthur Young, Frank Piasecki, or Stanley Hiller are. How cool would it have been to put a piece of the fabric from the VS 300 on the Mars helicopter?

I know this is a bit like the folks who go to movies ( remember doing that?)and point out all the errors in something because they happen to know more than your average Joe about it. It's a small thing but generating lift with a rotary wing is a lot different from a fixed wing. Sikorsky designed both types with admirable results, The Wrights scoffed at one and barely flew the other before many others joined them. They were brilliant about some thngs and it paid off when they were persistant but how about credit where it is due?

Hmmmmm. I'm adding an after thought here. Perhaps it is splendid irony that the fabric patch was placed on board. A slight poke in the eye to Wilbur for his disregard of the helicopter.

[ORAC]

https://phys.org/news/2021-04-nasa-mars-helicopter-flight-sunday.html

NASA's Mars Helicopter to make first flight attempt Sunday

NASA's Ingenuity Mars Helicopter is two days away from making humanity's first attempt at powered, controlled flight of an aircraft on another planet. If all proceeds as planned, the 4-pound (1.8-kg) rotorcraft is expected to take off from Mars' Jezero Crater Sunday, April 11, at 12:30 p.m. local Mars solar time (10:54 p.m. EDT), hovering 10 feet (3 meters) above the surface for up to 30 seconds. Mission control specialists at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Southern California expect to receive the first data from the first flight attempt the following morning at around 4:15 a.m. EDT......

[At] 10:53 p.m. EDT, Ingenuity will begin undergoing its myriad preflight checks. The helicopter will repeat the blade-wiggle test it performed three sols prior. If the algorithms running the guidance, navigation, and control systems deem the test results acceptable, they will turn on the inertial measurement unit (an electronic device that measures a vehicle's orientation and rotation) and inclinometer (which measures slopes). If everything checks out, the helicopter will again adjust the pitch of its rotor blades, configuring them so they don't produce lift during the early portion of the spin-up.

The spin-up of the rotor blades will take about 12 seconds to go from 0 to 2,537 rpm, the optimal speed for the first flight. After a final systems check, the pitch of the rotor blades will be commanded to change yet again—this time so they can dig into those few molecules of carbon dioxide, nitrogen, and argon available in the atmosphere near the Martian surface. Moments later, the first experimental flight test on another planet will begin.

"It should take us about six seconds to climb to our maximum height for this first flight," said JPL's Håvard Grip, the flight control lead for Ingenuity. "When we hit 10 feet, Ingenuity will go into a hover that should last—if all goes well—for about 30 seconds."

While hovering, the helicopter's navigation camera and laser altimeter will feed information into the navigation computer to ensure Ingenuity remains not only level, but in the middle of its 33-by-33-foot (10-by-10-meter) airfield—a patch of Martian real estate chosen for its flatness and lack of obstructions. Then, the Mars Helicopter will descend and touch back down on the surface of Jezero Crater, sending data back to Earth, via Perseverance, to confirm the flight.

Perseverance is expected to obtain imagery of the flight using its Navcam and Mastcam-Z imagers, with the pictures expected to come down that evening (early morning Monday, April 12, in Southern California). The helicopter will also document the flight from its perspective, with a color image and several lower-resolution black-and-white navigation pictures possibly being available by the next morning......

NASA TV will air live coverage of the team as they receive the data, with commentary beginning at 3:30 a.m. EDT.

[Fareastdriver]

How do they recharge it?

[ApolloHeli]

How do they recharge it?

Solar panel. The flat lunch-tray sized thing on top.

[ORAC]

https://mars.nasa.gov/technology/helicopter/status/291/mars-helicopter-flight-delayed-to-no-earlier-than-april-14/

Mars Helicopter Flight Delayed to No Earlier than April 14

Based on data from the Ingenuity Mars helicopter that arrived late Friday night, NASA has chosen to reschedule the Ingenuity Mars Helicopter’s first experimental flight to no earlier than April 14.

During a high-speed spin test of the rotors on Friday, the command sequence controlling the test ended early due to a “watchdog” timer expiration. This occurred as it was trying to transition the flight computer from ‘Pre-Flight’ to ‘Flight’ mode.

The helicopter is safe and healthy and communicated its full telemetry set to Earth.

The watchdog timer oversees the command sequence and alerts the system to any potential issues. It helps the system stay safe by not proceeding if an issue is observed and worked as planned.

The helicopter team is reviewing telemetry to diagnose and understand the issue. Following that, they will reschedule the full-speed test.

[ORAC]

https://spaceflightnow.com/2021/04/12/mars-helicopter-needs-a-software-update-before-attempting-first-flight/

Mars helicopter needs a software update before attempting first flight

NASA said Monday the Ingenuity helicopter needs a software update to resolve a problem that cut short the drone’s rotor startup sequence on Mars last week, postponing the craft’s first flight in the Red Planet’s atmosphere until later this month.

The helicopter — set to try to become the first craft to perform powered flight in the atmosphere of another planet — aborted an attempted spin-up of the its counter-rotating blades Friday after its autonomous control software detected a problem.

The lightweight helicopter was programmed to power up its rotors to flight speed near 2,500 rpm for a final pre-flight checkout Friday, leading to an attempt at a first flight Sunday, April 11. But the premature end to the high-speed spin test prompted ground teams to delay Ingenuity’s first test flight to no earlier than Wednesday, April 14.

In an update released late Monday by NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, mission managers said engineers identified a software fix for the “command sequence issue” that ended the high-speed spin-up test Friday.

Officials at JPL, which manages the Ingenuity helicopter project, did not announce a new target date for the rotorcraft’s first test flight. Ground teams hope to determine a new target date next week for the helicopter’s first flight.....

[[email protected]]

Did they try turning it off and turning it back on again?:)

[jolihokistix]

Sometimes simply removing the battery and putting it back in again will do the trick.

[TURIN]

It does beg the question why was this not discovered during testing before it was launched?

[netstruggler]

It does beg the question why was this not discovered during testing before it was launched?

All you'd need would be an environmental chamber where you could adjust temperature, atmosphere and gravity.

[Jhieminga]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingenuity_(helicopter)#Preliminary_tests_on_Earth

[netstruggler]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingenuity_(helicopter)#Preliminary_tests_on_Earth

The giant vacuum chamber sounds good. The bit of string simulating weak gravity a bit less so..

Anyone know what the pair of 'ears' near the root of each rotor are for?

[ApolloHeli]

The giant vacuum chamber sounds good. The bit of string simulating weak gravity a bit less so..

Anyone know what the pair of 'ears' near the root of each rotor are for?

This is just a guess but they look like Chinese weights to me. Their centrifugal moment counters the zero-pitch return moment from the rotor blades so that pitch control is more stable.

[ShyTorque]

Maybe they haven’t paid an EASA bill.

[cattletruck]

I hope they don't suffer a MITM (Martian-In-The-Middle) attack during the new software upload, or the dreaded green screen of death.
Seriously, I wonder how they assessed the risk of applying the software patch against the high potential of making things even worse. I really do hope it all works out in the end as the pictures would be out of this world.

[netstruggler]

I hope they don't suffer a MITM (Martian-In-The-Middle) attack during the new software upload, or the dreaded green screen of death.
Seriously, I wonder how they assessed the risk of applying the software patch against the high potential of making things even worse. I really do hope it all works out in the end as the pictures would be out of this world.

They'll definitely have some Martian Packets to contend with.

A Martian packet is an IP packet seen on the public Internet that contains a source or destination address that is reserved for special-use by Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA). On the public Internet, such a packet either has a spoofed source address, and it cannot actually originate as claimed, or the packet cannot be delivered.

[mickjoebill]

The other martian lander, InSight,has had to restrict its experiments, as its solar panels are covered in dust.

Would be captivating and fab PR, if the helicopter could be used to fly across country/planet to blow dust off the panels of the dying lander:) The downdraft has to be equal to the weight of the helicopter, but are there any other factors to consider in this mission in relation to a thin atmosphere?


InSight has a small robotic arm, I wonder why these arms aren't designed to sweep dust from the panels?
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x1024/_mars_nasa_gov_insight_raw_images_surface_sol_0789_idc_d000m 0789_666570537edr_f0000_0913m__1db12793f859e7f4e5ded37f1e649 af0f5ea1dcf.png

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/insight/main/index.html
Mjb

[jolihokistix]

Presumably that opened like an umbrella. Oops, did it go 'click'?

[ETOPS]

Well done! - successful first flight.

[TURIN]

Yep, well done NASA. Great achievement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt2Up1LtATQ

[Arnie Madsen]

4 pound helicopter that requires 10 pilots .
This is progress ??

[cavuman1]

View of first flight from 140 million miles away!

- Ed


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1024x768/ingenuity_flies_5a214aea595f88faa43c4451d69d8702dadb9cd0.jpg

[TWT]

4 pound helicopter that requires 10 pilots .
This is progress ??
It needs all those people to analyse the data sent back over an average of 140 million miles which takes more than 16 minutes to transit to Earth.

Flight control is autonomous :)

Well done Ingenuity crew !

[retoocs]

4 pound helicopter that requires 10 pilots .
This is progress ??

Flying with rotor blades in atmospheric pressure of 0.095 psi is impressive, equivalent of over 100,000 ft.

[atakacs]

Flying with rotor blades in atmospheric pressure of 0.095 psi is impressive, equivalent of over 100,000 ft.
Indeed. I was really surprised that it could be done at all. That being said not sure what actual use future developments will have. This is very much on the edge of practical use IMHO

[highflyer40]

If they want a pilot to go to Mars to fly a helicopter in the future as it takes 7 years to travel each way, as I haven't got 14 years left in me, I think I'll give it a miss!

It takes 7 months, not years to travel each way.

[Denti]

https://www.icao.int/Newsroom/Pages/ICAO-celebrates-latest-step-in-aviation-innovation-with-code-assignments-for-world-first-offplanet-flight-operation.aspx

Interesting quirk by NASA in celebration of that flight ;)

To be fair, that 7 month window from earth to mars only opens every 26 months, transfers outside that window will take considerably longer.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Indeed. I was really surprised that it could be done at all. That being said not sure what actual use future developments will have. This is very much on the edge of practical use IMHO
Practical use on earth I'd suggest is limited (though there's always some trickle across, but it's never the obvious stuff!). However, in terms of planetary exploration it's a pretty big deal.

A long time friend works in that area and just one of their ideas is if you need small samples over a wide area, a sample retrieval system attached to the bottom of an autonomous helicopter that goes and fetches, come home, recharges and dumps the sample, then goes and does it again, allows them to cover huge amounts of territory by comparison to previous vehicles. To put this into context, Opportunity drove 45 or so kilometers in 14 and half years (2004-2018).

[megan]

One of the uses given by local news is to use the helo to reconnoiter for interesting sites that the rover may then visit, save time and mileage on the rover wandering somewhat randomly looking for something worthwhile.

[jimf671]

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/ingenuity-helicopter-flying-mars-perseverance-nasa?

[Ant T]

After more than 18 months on Mars, still active. A flight on 6th Sept. lasting 56 seconds, and 97 meters.
31st sortie - not bad for a “proof-of-concept” trial !


https://www.space.com/mars-helicopter-ingenuity-31st-flight-river-delta

[meleagertoo]

AS ever yet another of NASA's proof of concept vehicles vastly outperforming it's published life and capability.
Amazing stuff.

[mnttech]

As of 9 Nov 23 Completing 118.8 flying minutes, covering 9.3 miles (14.9 km), and reaching altitudes as high as 78.7 ft (24.0 m), 66 flights
Space Ingenuity (https://www.space.com/nasa-mars-helicopter-ingenuity-flights-solar-conjunction-2023)

[mnttech]

Made it all the way to Flight 72 before damage during a landing ended the mission
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMbHE_VXI-8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHMIgQ5RAl8

[ShyTorque]

They've done amazingly well with it. An ex colleague of mine wrote his r/c helicopter off ground taxying it for its first ever takeoff and he was standing only a few yards away from it!

[FakePilot]

So..... Air is 1/140 earth sea level but gravity is 1/3. Mach 1 isn't that fast at all. So it seems rotors wouldn't work at first thought. Hmmm, does it hover? In order to lift, the engine must produce enough HP to accelerate up at 1G (martian) . Then the rotors must convert rotational HP to moving air HP. My first guess would be really big rotors but then Mach 1 comes into play.
Seems like it wouldn't add up.

[skadi]

My first guess would be really big rotors but then Mach 1 comes into play.
Seems like it wouldn't add up.

Blade tip speed was <0,7 Mach. So no problem. JPL already tested the rotor for the next Mars helicopter with speeds up to 0,96 Mach

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingenuity_(helicopter)

skadi

[casper64]

Wondering if they have tried or will try to fly it with that damage?

[skadi]

Wondering if they have tried or will try to fly it with that damage?

That would propably destroy Inguenity, with the loss of those big parts of the blade(s) the vibrations will exeed the limits for a safe flight and I am sure the produced lift won't be enough anyway.

skadi

[Thirsty]

You need to keep it intact for Elon's museum.

[mickjoebill]

If an aircraft is "grounded" on earth it is "???" on Mars..

[jolihokistix]

A slim flexible strengthening rim might have been in order, not only to protect Martian locals from the naked blades.

[judyjudy]

If an aircraft is "grounded" on earth it is "???" on Mars..

Don’t they have ground on Mars?