What about RAF Scampton?

[Finningley Boy]

There would appear to be some concern about the future of RAF Scampton in so far as what will become of the station at the end of 2022 when the RAF leave? For all its worth, does the airfield really have to go? Especially as they can't find a buyer and now there are concerns about the heritage side of the base.

FB

[pr00ne]

The official announcement was that the Red Arrows would still practice overhead Scampton, so Air Traffic and Fire will still have to be provided, and the airfield will not be available for development. Most of the infrastructure is crumbling away anyway, so the domestic and technical site will most probably be redeveloped for mixed housing and business use.

[chevvron]

The official announcement was that the Red Arrows would still practice overhead Scampton, so Air Traffic and Fire will still have to be provided, and the airfield will not be available for development. Most of the infrastructure is crumbling away anyway, so the domestic and technical site will most probably be redeveloped for mixed housing and business use.
Bet the Army move in and build fences across the airfield like they normally do.

[Sideshow Bob]

T...the Red Arrows would still practice overhead Scampton, so Air Traffic and Fire will still have to be provided,....
Why, not many other restricted areas have their own

[Friedlander]

At the moment there is an ATC service of sorts (though, as I understand it the actual services apart from the visual are provided by Waddington). Waddington is pretty close to Scampton at 5000ft and 300kts, though I doubt it will feel like that at 500 ft with no donk. If you were flying a Hawk T1 in that situation, would you expect to point towards Lincoln and try to get into Waddington or try and put down on the 9,000ft strip below? Answers on a postcard ... but the one thing that strikes me is that what is proposed is, on the face of it, less safe than what is there at the moment, which seems an odd position to take in the current climate.

I expect that the minister who announced the decision in 2018 was well and honestly briefed about the options for RAFAT (if not for either of the other units there!), but a significant airspace change such as the move of R313 would/will take years to get approved through the CAA, even assuming it were possible at all in the UK.

The Ministerial Announcement is available on line ... search Google for HLWS892 and you will see Earl Howe reference (and quote in full) the Syatement by Tobias Ellwood. I would post a link but the site won't let me.

There are 3 other aspects to the future of Scampton which are relevant.

1. Firstly, how suitable is the airfield for development? All bases are not created equal and I would be amazed if there was not a significant amount of remediation required. The RAF/MOD has no money to pay for this and any developer worth its salt will not want to invest without the prospect of significant returns, but this is only going to be possible if ...

2. ... there is significant demand for housing in the area - I do not think that is the case (more likely it's prime potato-growing land notwithstanding 1. above!).

and perhaps of less import,

3. The RAF is piling people into Waddington as fast as they will go. Use of the 'overflow' housing at Scampton is, I understand, likely to be necessary for some years. That said, the housing there is not owned by the MOD (thanks to Mr Portillo), and let's not forget that the announcement on Scampton was made, ostensibly, based on the DIO requirement to 'Make Better Use of Defence Estates'; given all the problems which have come to light since the announcement, I am not sure quite how this is being achieved.

Time will tell.

[Finningley Boy]

Interesting comments,

pr00ne,

I know what you mean about the station infrastructure, I was there in 2017 and a lot of the buildings appeared derelict, surprised I was as it was after all back as an active RAF air base. One Hangar appeared to be about to collapse, in a terrible state, the Officers' Mess had chipboard covers fastened over the windows and the linked metal fencing the sort used by building contractors, surrounded it.

Friedlander,

Point 3 of your post is what puzzles me most, is it for the best, is it indispensable to do so, to close the place down given the half in half out situation they'll be stuck with? Better I'd have thought to try and make the most of what's there, the Red Arrows I'd have thought were better staying there from the point of convenience. Along with other less visible assets.

FB

[Wensleydale]

The MOD sold off much of Scampton's families accommodation many years ago.

[4mastacker]

The place wasn't in exactly pristine condition when I was stationed there late 70s/early 80s. The MQs were a disgrace.

After the Vulcans ceased flying, there was some uncertainty about the future of the station until it was confirmed that the Red Arrows would be moving up from Kemble. AOC 1 Group visited and told the remaining station personnel that whilst the future of the technical/domestic site was uncertain, the RAF had learned to its cost, the dangers of giving up runways and the airfield side would remain. That was in 1982.

[Finningley Boy]

The place wasn't in exactly pristine condition when I was stationed there late 70s/early 80s. The MQs were a disgrace.

After the Vulcans ceased flying, there was some uncertainty about the future of the station until it was confirmed that the Red Arrows would be moving up from Kemble. AOC 1 Group visited and told the remaining station personnel that whilst the future of the technical/domestic site was uncertain, the RAF had learned to its cost, the dangers of giving up runways and the airfield side would remain. That was in 1982.

Hi 4mastacker,

Your last point about giving up airfields appears to be one which has long been dismissed. Compared with just 15 years ago, the number of airfields looks sparse.

FB

[ExSp33db1rd]

The MOD sold off much of Scampton's families accommodation many years ago.

My final appointment in the RAF was as officer in charge of Marching In and Marching Out families from Waddington being accommodate at Scampton.

What will happen to Gibsons dogs grave - name rhymes with Digger ?

[Friedlander]

The MOD sold off much of Scampton's families accommodation many years ago.

Yes, but not all of it by any means, and I expect the SFA will continue to be available long after Scampton is closed.

We were offered SFA there long after much of the housing had been sold off - SFA was also retained at 2 other sites further north (one of which we took).

Scampton was the victim of a really good idea (remember it sat empty for a few years) to mover the Reds back after a period of operating from Cranwell, and ISTR it was justified by the plan additionally to move the CRC there along with the MMU, 90SU and No 1 ACC). If they had all moved there as planned, there was a reasonable case for keeping the place open, but without 90SU (which went off to Leeming instead taking the Stn Cdr with them), justification was always going to be a challenge. An almost total lack of investment in the tech/admin site and SLA has made it an obvious target.

I have heard another story that the re-opening had the support of an officer at the highest level (ex Vulcan?) but was not supported by his slightly less senior VSOs. On his inevitable retirement, the servants became the masters and the keenness to keep the place open (along with any central funding whatsoever) vanished. However, I can't imagine there's any truth in such a rumour - and I may even have read it on another thread around here somewhere!

[chevvron]

the RAF had learned to its cost, the dangers of giving up runways and the airfield side would remain. .
The retention of a 'longish' runway so close to Waddington and Cranwell could well be advantageous in some circumstances.
Note that MOD have sold off the domestic site at Little Rissington with the 4 'C' type hangars being demolished but are retaining the airfield with its 6,000ft runway with no ATC or fire service (no control tower now either!) and have asked for the establishment of a 2nm radius ATZ.
For a short time it was retained for use by USAF in case an aircraft out of Upper Heyford had a problem on departure, the US D of D re-surfacing the main runway and providing H24 fire cover too.

[BEagle]

Scampton was still in acceptable condition during my last ever visit there, to do my A2 in 1992. But with the move of CFS to RAFC Cranwell in 1995, it rapidly deteriorated to its current state, fit for RAFAT flying only but that's about all. The OM is now rotting, as are most of the technical areas and the barrack blocks seen from the A17 A15 are a disgrace.

Having served for 3 happy years on 35 Sqn in the late '70s, I feel it is awful but inevitable to see such a proud station in such a state.....

Regarding Hell-on-the-Hill, wasn't it the producers of a James Bond film (who were renting part of the aerodrome at the time) who said that they'd pay for their usage by resurfacing the Runway, rather than paying some faceless MoD department which would probably spend it on more oil paintings or wide screen TVs for Main Building?

[ZH875]

You must have good eyesight to see Scamptons Barrack Blocks from the A17, I struggle to see Cranwell's barrack Blocks from the A17 and its a lot closer.:)

[Wycombe]

For a short time it was retained for use by USAF in case an aircraft out of Upper Heyford had a problem on departure, the US D of D re-surfacing the main runway and providing H24 fire cover too.

Story I was told many years ago when we used to visit the place for "field training" from Brize, was that the Rissie runway was resurfaced so that US aircraft could access the "medical facility" that some of the hangars could be used for?

[Arclite01]

There was definitely an Armageddon Hospital at Little Riss up to and including during GW1....................cardboard coffins et al. I had a trip around it...............

Arc

[Boeing Jet]

What will happen with HHA at Scampton with the Hunters etc, Waddington would be a good choice with plenty of room after 2022?

[chevvron]

There was definitely an Armageddon Hospital at Little Riss up to and including during GW1....................cardboard coffins et al. I had a trip around it...............

Arc
The 'contingency' hospital was still there in '91 occupying all 4 'C' type hangars plus many of the buildings on the domestic site; I peeked through the windows of the barrack block I stayed in when at summer camp in '62 and it was full of hospital beds, iv stands etc as was the NAAFI and the JRM.
I spent a week there with 637 VGS in '91 and they were the ones who told me the runway re-surface was funded by the USA.
By the way the demolished tower was the 1960s built one, the original tower is still there and has been converted to either a dwelling or offices.

[Specaircrew]

My final appointment in the RAF was as officer in charge of Marching In and Marching Out families from Waddington being accommodate at Scampton.

What will happen to Gibsons dogs grave - name rhymes with Digger ?

They've already removed the headstone and replaced it with a sanitised version in the interests of 'Inclusivity and Diversity' to improve the 'Mental Health and Wellbeing' of the people who start sentences with 'So'. Hopefully they'll have kept the original safe somewhere to use as a secret weapon against an invading millennial army. A clever bit of hacking could flash images of the gravestone to the iPhones of the marauding hordes and they'd all faint gasping the word 'abhorrent' ;-)

[GeeRam]

The 'contingency' hospital was still there in '91 occupying all 4 'C' type hangars plus many of the buildings on the domestic site

All 4 'C' Type hangars there are now long gone......

[Evalu8ter]

Boeing,
i imagine the RAF don’t give a hoot about HHA, and certainly can’t see them being accommodated at what will be a busy and sensitive Waddington. Given that most of their work seems to be either for QQ or the RN, perhaps they may find a sponsor prepared to cut them a deal at Yeovilton, Culdrose or Boscombe. There have been suggestions they do not pay the full market rate at Scampton. Perhaps they could buy it?

[DuckDodgers]

Boeing,
i imagine the RAF don’t give a hoot about HHA, and certainly can’t see them being accommodated at what will be a busy and sensitive Waddington. Given that most of their work seems to be either for QQ or the RN, perhaps they may find a sponsor prepared to cut them a deal at Yeovilton, Culdrose or Boscombe. There have been suggestions they do not pay the full market rate at Scampton. Perhaps they could buy it?

Spot on! QQ (for ETPS) and MBDA (for seeker head trials) is pretty much their sum total in 2020 so nothing directly contracted with MOD. Regards payment for use of Scampton, apparently MOD has no record of any transactions for the use of its facilities.

[Boeing Jet]

That would seem the most practical place to base them at one of the RN bases if most of their work is done down there!