N Korea developing new nukes, tactical weapons and a nuke powered sub

[NutLoose]

I suppose with the world in turmoil he’s taking advantage of Covid and the US elections to slip this in.

(CNN)North Korean leader Kim Jong Un said his country is developing new weaponry including a nuclear-powered submarine, tactical nuclear weapons and advanced warheads designed to penetrate missile defense systems.

In comments published Saturday, Kim said North Korea is pushing ahead with the armaments to deter the United States, comments that appear to show President Donald Trump's strategy of high-level engagement with Pyongyang -- including three historic in-person meetings between Trump and Kim -- failed to convince Pyongyang to stop its pursuit of a modern nuclear arsenal.
"No matter who is in power in the US, the true nature and the true spirit of the anti-North Korea policy will never change," Kim said, according to the country's state-run Korean Central News Agency (KCNA).
"The development of nuclear weapons be pushed forward without interruption."


https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/09/asia/north-korea-nuclear-development-intl-hnk/index.html

[Asturias56]

Rather odd stories coming out about how the Young Leader hasn't been giving the normally unmissable New Years Speech (s) - things sound very bad there - economy sinking (again) CV19 rampant and stories of lack of food.

Even the "elite" shops are emptying of goods

[racedo]

Looks like some services are seeking extra funding.

Bearing in mind from laying down of keel to entering full operational performance in Western countries takes 12 yrs ................ HMS Audacious, then I doubt their new sub will be operational before next doors child is ready to join up. The child was born in January of last year.

[Less Hair]

Wouldn't this mainly upset China to have some sort of nuclear Mini-Me next door?

[West Coast]

Wouldn't this mainly upset China to have some sort of nuclear Mini-Me next door?

They’ve already had that for years.

[Fareastdriver]

China's security is guaranteed by mountains in the southwest, deserts in the northwest, tundra in the north and northeast and water in the south. The only land entry, as the Japanese used about ninety years ago, is Korea.

What better than to have a nuclear armed lunatic guarding every inch of it.

[etudiant]

China's security is guaranteed by mountains in the southwest, deserts in the northwest, tundra in the north and northeast and water in the south. The only land entry, as the Japanese used about ninety years ago, is Korea.

What better than to have a nuclear armed lunatic guarding every inch of it.

Of course, a nuclear armed lunatic in the neighborhood might be incentive for others, such as S Korea or Japan to get their own as well.
Plus the example should encourage others who have arguments with China, such as Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, maybe Brunei, to muscle up.
Longer term, is it to China's benefit to encourage proliferation?

[West Coast]

Of course, a nuclear armed lunatic in the neighborhood might be incentive for others, such as S Korea or Japan to get their own as well.
Plus the example should encourage others who have arguments with China, such as Taiwan, Vietnam, the Philippines, maybe Brunei, to muscle up.
Longer term, is it to China's benefit to encourage proliferation?

Muscle up and align.

[Fonsini]

An early challenge to the spinal fortitude of the Biden Presidency - expect similar actions from China, Iran, and Russia in the coming year.

[Less Hair]

Where does NK have all the money from? Nukes, missiles, subs. Not cheap to acquire especially under embargo rules. Will they blow their budget and collapse soviet union style with all this stuff going on?

[tdracer]

Where does NK have all the money from? Nukes, missiles, subs. Not cheap to acquire especially under embargo rules. Will they blow their budget and collapse soviet union style with all this stuff going on?
Most of their funds come from trade with China (most of the rest of the world has an embargo) - so the Chinese have to be somewhat complicit in allowing this to go on.

This is really will be an early test for Biden - he's long been buddy-buddy with mainland China and it's not a secret that he plans to "improve" relations with China (whatever that means).
Trump, for all his faults, understood that the Chinese are not our friends (with their own agenda) and treated them accordingly.

[Asturias56]

NK also is deeply involved in all sorts of "dark web" trade - drugs of all sorts, arms dealing, financial scams etc

And of course they can devote as much of their GDP to arms as they like - its not the weasel like 1% of some European countries. In the past people have spent over 20% of GDP on arms (I seem to remember Israel was one of them). When you think that a Labour Govt in the UK financed an atomic bomb programme straight after the war when times were VERY tough you can see what can be done if it becomes an overriding national priority. And there is so much information out there for free these days - pictures, stories, brochures, books ,,,...... and people who are willing to help anyone for cash as well

[Lyneham Lad]

Another night, another parade. In The Times.
North Korea parades ‘world’s most powerful weapon (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/447d8ee8-570f-11eb-8852-f1ee277e4313?shareToken=0168e7f5f5ddc0b8924bdf8be3b1163b)

North Korea paraded a ballistic missile designed to be launched from a submarine, in an implicit threat to the United States and a new assertion of military power and determination days before the swearing in of Joe Biden.

The new missile, described by state media as “the world’s most powerful weapon”, was part of a large night-time military parade overseen by the country’s supreme leader, Kim Jong-un.

Despite including a wide range of military units and weaponry it does not appear to have featured North Korea’s longest-range intercontinental ballistic missiles, which have the potential to launch nuclear warheads against the United States, suggesting Mr Kim’s wish to apply pressure on the US but not blatantly to provoke.

“The columns of rockets possessed of powerful striking capability for thoroughly annihilating enemies in a pre-emptive way outside the territory, roared past,” a report from the Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) said. “The world’s most powerful weapon, submarine-launch ballistic missile [sic], entered the square one after another, powerfully demonstrating the might of the revolutionary armed forces.”

South Korea’s spy agency reported last November that North Korea was building a submarine capable of firing ballistic missiles, in a strategic breakthrough that would give Mr Kim renewed confidence in his ability to deter American military attack.

Click the link for photo & remainder of the article.

[Asturias56]

This link has no paywall https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55671745

[Fareastdriver]

You can bet the Big Fat One will NOT be going for a ride under the water.

[etudiant]

Most of their funds come from trade with China (most of the rest of the world has an embargo) - so the Chinese have to be somewhat complicit in allowing this to go on.

This is really will be an early test for Biden - he's long been buddy-buddy with mainland China and it's not a secret that he plans to "improve" relations with China (whatever that means).
Trump, for all his faults, understood that the Chinese are not our friends (with their own agenda) and treated them accordingly.

Nations don't have friends, they do have interests.
China was once 'The Middle Kingdom', with an estimated 40% of global GNP. Understandably, they would like to restore that status.
They cannot be blamed if the US cooperates with their longer term goals by shifting its industrial base to China.

[Less Hair]

Brings me back to the point can NK nukes be in China's interest at all? Aren't they even offensive towards their big brother?

[atr-drivr]

An early challenge to the spinal fortitude of the Biden Presidency - expect similar actions from China, Iran, and Russia in the coming year.

Of which he has is ZERO. The challenge will be for his handlers.....

[Less Hair]

It can't get worse.

[Asturias56]

Brings me back to the point can NK nukes be in China's interest at all? Aren't they even offensive towards their big brother?

They aren't of course - but China can't stop him without taking the place over - and they REALLY don't want to do that.

[etudiant]

Brings me back to the point can NK nukes be in China's interest at all? Aren't they even offensive towards their big brother?

Absolutely spot on! It seems against China's own interests.
The logical outcome of the proliferation initiated by North Korea is that everyone in the theater will need to go nuclear, including Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore, the Philippines and Indonesia, along with of course Japan and South Korea. Taiwan will be a special case, at least as it is considered a (renegade) China province, but they surely have the needed skills. So China's 9 dash map will only leave China surrounded by somewhat suspicious nuclear armed powers.
I can only assume that China believes this proliferation is going to happen in any case, so that grabbing what is possible while it is still the case is the best long term policy

[Less Hair]

It's like everybody else now gets a greenlight to "move on". And who would oppose them doing so? Finally China ends up in a region that will be nuclear armed all around. Because that one guy needed to have it first. It all happens under Beijing's watch.

[tdracer]

It can't get worse.
Oh yes it can.
Right now, people aren't shooting at each other - that could easily change.
I've been to Seoul a few times - nice, modern place. If the various leaders don't do a good job, it could soon look more like Berlin circa 1945...

[Less Hair]

Bringing back somebody a little more educated and rational will help in any case. Foreign policy was a nightmare under the current administration.
That happens when leaders have not a tiny bit of knowledge about history or foreign policy and diplomacy. If you then don't listen to the people around you in the know your are lost.

I don't care wether the people of the US vote "left" or "right" but it needs to be some quality person. The Capitol events have proven he is not the right leader. Fighting the parliament has to be stopped.

[Asturias56]

Looking back I'm not sure the colour of the Administration in Washington makes any difference to N Korea - they've been a problem for many, many years and the USA seems limited in what it can do to improve the situation

[Less Hair]

Sanctions seem to not be enough to prevent certain countries from arming up. Lessons should be learned. Iran will be the next candidate.
And there must be a political concept what the region around any candidate is permitted and accepted to react with.
This is not the stable and comfortable cold war one versus one scenario anymore.

[etudiant]

Looking back I'm not sure the colour of the Administration in Washington makes any difference to N Korea - they've been a problem for many, many years and the USA seems limited in what it can do to improve the situation

In fairness, after the experience of the Korean war, which saw the northern cities pulverized, North Korean leaders would stop at nothing to get nuclear weapons.
The subsequent murder of Qaddafi at the hands of a NATO sponsored group when he had earlier given up nuclear ambitions ensured that North Korea would never surrender their nuclear insurance card.
China could possibly step in to halt this, but it would be hugely difficult, impossible imho without some sort of comprehensive regional agreement whose outlines even are hard to discern.

[Less Hair]

The frontline went through South Korea, the one that was attacked back then, and -with UN help- back again until it stopped on the way back when China stepped in and the US halted to bomb the key supply line bridges in the north. The north used to be the rich part and the south the poor part that on top got destroyed twice.

[ORAC]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/un-atomic-watchdog-says-north-korea-appears-to-have-restarted-nuclear-reactor

UN atomic watchdog says North Korea appears to have restarted nuclear reactor

[etudiant]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/30/un-atomic-watchdog-says-north-korea-appears-to-have-restarted-nuclear-reactor

UN atomic watchdog says North Korea appears to have restarted nuclear reactor
Seems logical. The US defeat in Afghanistan damages the value of US security guarantees everywhere.
So N Korea is looking forward to a world where the US dependent states such as Japan, South Korea or Taiwan move to ensure their own security.
That puts N Korea into a more precarious position, hence the increased emphasis on their nuclear deterrent.

[Asturias56]

Suspect it's to be able to play a card when asking for more aid - or rather threatening folk again and then offering a concession on stopping the reactor again in exchange for food

[Lyneham Lad]

In The Times this afternoon.

North Korea tests cruise missile that could reach Japan (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eb33e154-145d-11ec-8aba-5ab737a99668?shareToken=8c27cf818b60f993b83063769033c63e)

North Korea has test-fired a long-range cruise missile that may be able to deliver a nuclear warhead to South Korea or Japan in the latest sign of Kim Jong-un’s determination to increase his strike capability.

According to reports and photographs on state media, two missiles travelled 930 miles and executed figure of eight manoeuvres above North Korea (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/topic/north-korea) and its territorial waters.

Pictures in the Rodong Sinmun newspaper showed a missile exiting one of five tubes on a launch vehicle in a ball of flame, as well as a missile in horizontal flight.

Unlike nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles, North Korean cruise missile tests are not banned under United Nations sanctions. However, such a weapon would be a marked advance in the regime’s weapons technology, better able to avoid missile shields.

The test launches took place on Saturday and Sunday, according to the Korean Central News Agency. It described the missile as a “strategic weapon of great significance”, using a euphemism for nuclear-capable.

Click the link for full article & photo etc.

[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/global_mil_info/status/1568051529084555265?s=21&t=qRm-w2ui1rlzD05e64YNQw


North Korea passed a law enshrining the right to use pre-emptive nuclear strikes to protect itself. The law also reinforces that their nuclear status is irreversible. Kim Jong Un also stated that there will be no bargaining over their nuclear weapons.

The law also specified the Mission, Constitution, Command & Control, Execution of Decision on Use, Principle of Using, Conditions of Using, Regular readiness, Safe procedures, Nonproliferation, Increase/Upgrading & Miscellaneous items in regards to their Nuclear Forces.

[Asturias56]

Fair enough - he's joined the club and he sounds like he'll play by the same rules as the rest of us.

Maybe we can encourage the Russians to help him put in place some decent controls over firing authority - IIRC both the Indians and Pakistanis had to be encouraged to do that

[SASless]

Nature abhors a vacuum.....same concept works in International Affairs.

North Korea correctly views such a situation with the current US Administrations Foreign Policy and is merely taking the opportunity to advance its own interests.

We cannot fault them for that as that is how the game has and is played.

When it comes to fault finding....we should be honest and point the finger at the cause of the problem....and a better equipped and more prickly North Korea is definitely a problem.

Comparing the Trump approach to North Korea to Joe Biden's method....I think we can see a clear difference that exposes the shortcomings of the current regime.

[Asturias56]

And Trump's approach was as success?

The basic problem is that NO US govt of whatever stripe wants a Nuclear armed N Korea - which is one reason the N Koreans have bust a gut to get the capability

I'd rather they hadn't but I don't blame them

[West Coast]

And Trump's approach was as success?

The basic problem is that NO US govt of whatever stripe wants a Nuclear armed N Korea - which is one reason the N Koreans have bust a gut to get the capability

I'd rather they hadn't but I don't blame them

It was a path that hadn’t been tried and at least for a short period kept the fat one contained. Wasn’t what you’d call a fan of Trump’s foreign policy, but attempts at the carrot over the stick were worth trying.

[SASless]

Fault Trump if as you wish....but Biden's approach damn sure ain't working.

We have two more years at a minimum of this gang of Loons being at bat....how much progress towards a genuine nuclear threat can North Korea achieve in that time not counting the lag in effect should a capable administration take office?

[Less Hair]

How does poor NK fund all this?

[Beamr]

How does poor NK fund all this?
US State Dept estimates that the NK is using approx 25% of its GDP in military. NK GDP is estimated to be around USD18bn by the official data from World Bank. Thats then approx USD4.5bn annually spent on military.
peanuts, so I understand your question. However, the rumour is that they've had some help from Iran and they have unlimited free workforce, meaning a substancial increment in the budget compared to rest of the world.

[Asturias56]

Spending a fortuneo n defence isn't that rare - Israel spent a very high proportion of their budget for years on defence and I hate to think how much of the Ukraine's wealth is going that way right now

[T28B]

Spending a fortuneo n defence isn't that rare - Israel spent a very high proportion of their budget for years on defence and I hate to think how much of the Ukraine's wealth is going that way right now To be fair, they are using other people's money (donations from various Western nations) at this point. How that gets paid back will deserve a thread of its own on that topic, not North Korea as a topic. :=

[Asturias56]

N Korea seems to run a nice line in selling drugs etc to a wide variety of people as well as strange dealings in the finance market

I suppose a question now is "how much is enough" for them.

[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1577064876765196288?s=21&t=G0MiCjD3szb2-lFUKQfJVg


North Korea has reportedly launched an Unknown Missile heading toward the direction of Hokkaido, Japan; all citizens in the Region are urged to take get inside and go to the lowest part of buildings.

The South Korean Defense Ministry is reporting that this could be an ICBM or IRBM Launch intended to land to the East of Japan in the Pacific.

There is possibility there could be more than one Missile Launched, multiple Missile Alerts for different Regions are being broadcasted across Japanese Television.

The Missile has splashed down in the Pacific Ocean to the East of Japan, this is the first North Korean Missile fired over Japan since September of 2017.….

[Asturias56]

Think it has been expected - timing constrained by Uncle Xi's bean feast in Beijing

[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/faytuks/status/1581683817906962432?s=61&t=BANVDUp5laqps6gYAfkhqA



BREAKING: South Korea's presidential office has been placed on "24-hour standby" as North Korea is expected to conduct its seventh nuclear test at any time, officials say - Yonhap

[zambonidriver]

Spending a fortuneo n defence isn't that rare - Israel spent a very high proportion of their budget for years on defence and I hate to think how much of the Ukraine's wealth is going that way right now
Not willing to open a can of worms but both are now mostly paid by the US tax payer.

[Asturias56]

Cheaper than fighting the Russians elsewhere

[Lonewolf_50]

N Korea developing new nukes, tactical weapons and a nuke powered sub
As I ponder this thread's title, and as I take a look at the discussions in re AUKUS and nuclear submarines, I wonder if NK will be able to establish the necessary industrial infrastructure to handle nuclear submarines.
I raise this question based on something I learned back in the 90's: India had been operating a Charlie class SSGN for a number of years, on lease from the Soviets, but in the end they chose not to pursue a nuclear sub capability, with that 'establish the necessary industrial base cost' being a key factor. (FWIW, I suspect that India may currently be in a better position to now do that, if they so choose).
Is NK's industrial base up for that?

[Asturias56]

Lonewolf - India has two SSBN's officially in service, one fitting out and another under construction. they're small - around 6000 tonnes and carry 4-12 medium range missiles. Rumoured to be quite noisy - but that's a first generation design.

hey also leased an Akula - the "Chakra" but she was returned to Russia, apparently after an on-board explosion of a high pressure gas tank of some sort.

We don't get headlines about the Indian boats as they're not seen as a threat to the West

[Lonewolf_50]

Lonewolf - India has two SSBN's officially in service, one fitting out and another under construction. they're small - around 6000 tonnes and carry 4-12 medium range missiles. Rumoured to be quite noisy - but that's a first generation design.
Thank you, I had not been keeping track. :)

[Asturias56]

Not surprised - like all Indian procurement programmes this one faces "challenges" but they have had a plan for years and they seem to be plugging along

[Lyneham Lad]

In The Times this afternoon.

North Korea tests rocket motor for more advanced nuclear missiles (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/2d123426-7d2c-11ed-bcd8-855e06175970?shareToken=3ae862329e5d21ae213068b9d5505a3a)

Snippet:-
North Korea has tested a solid-fuel rocket motor, according to state media, in a move that could accelerate its development of advanced missiles.

Kim Jong-un, the country’s leader, oversaw the test on Thursday, the state-run Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) reported. It published a photo of a smiling Kim at an observation point by the test site, cigarette in hand, as a huge pall of smoke rises in the background.

The launch was “the first of its kind” in the North and is a “guarantee for the development of another new type strategic weapon system”, KCNA said.

“That, my friends, is the first stage of a solid propellant ICBM [intercontinental ballistic missile],” tweeted Jeffrey Lewis, of the Middlebury Institute for International Studies in California.

North Korea has tested liquid-fuelled ICBMs before, but solid-fuelled rockets are more stable and could be launched more rapidly, reducing the time in which an opposing nation could react, experts warn. ICBMs are designed to carry nuclear warheads.

Another turn on the ratchet...

[Less Hair]

What they do is enough to let Japan seriously arm up now and add some new retaliation strike capability to its armed forces.
.

[Asturias56]

"What they do is enough to let Japan seriously arm up now"

"they" have been trying to get the Japanese to arm up for over 50 years - the problem is the Japanese people aren't that keen - especially about N weapons - I can't imagine why......................

[Lonewolf_50]

"they" have been trying to get the Japanese to arm up for over 50 years - the problem is the Japanese people aren't that keen - especially about N weapons - I can't imagine why......................
I have read a few pieces here and there over the past few years on the topic of Japan achieving an independent deterrent.
Won't comment further, as I have not seen a firm policy statement 'for' yet.
I don't think that it is the Norkers who are behind the latest build up. (https://www.iowapublicradio.org/news-from-npr/news-from-npr/2022-12-16/eyeing-china-japan-lifts-longtime-restrictions-to-allow-major-defense-buildup)

[Less Hair]

Not yet? Japan doubles the military spending.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/16/japan-approves-biggest-military-buildup-since-second-world-war-amid-china-fears

[Asturias56]

The new thread on the japanese Military stance is very useful

[Lyneham Lad]

In The Times.
More rocketry from NK:-
North Korea tests spy satellite from Kim Jong-un’s military ‘wish-list’ (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d745dd98-7f9e-11ed-ab78-11b70ed96428?shareToken=1297e15749a2c39b4bb058a06b8cbcd9)

Snippet
North Korea has conducted an “important, final phase” for the development of a spy satellite that it hopes to complete by April, according to its state media.

The report comes a day after South Korea and Japan said that Pyongyang launched two ballistic missiles (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/north-korea-tests-rocket-motor-for-more-advanced-nuclear-missiles-9ll0bddqx) toward the Sea of Japan.

The National Aerospace Development Administration carried out the test at its Sohae satellite launching station to review its capabilities in satellite imaging, data transmission and ground control systems, according to the Korean Central News Agency (KCNA).

A vehicle carrying a mock satellite, a 20m-resolution full-colour camera, two multi-spectral cameras, image transmitters and receivers, a control device and a storage battery was fired at a loft angle to an altitude of 310 miles.

“We confirmed important technical indicators such as camera operating technology in the space environment, data processing and transmission ability of the communication devices, tracking and control accuracy of the ground control system,” a spokesman for the administration said.

[ORAC]

https://en.yna.co.kr/view/AEN20221226007052325

North Korean drones trespass across border; S. Korea sends drones in 'corresponding' step

HOENGSEONG/SEOUL, Dec. 26 (Yonhap) -- Five North Korean drones intruded across the inter-Korean border with one of them having flown over northern Seoul on Monday, officials here said, prompting South Korea to send its own unmanned vehicles into the North in a "corresponding" step.

The South's military detected multiple unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) in border areas of Gyeonggi Province from 10:25 a.m., according to the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS). The UAVs were 2 meters wide or smaller.

The vehicles flew across the Military Demarcation Line separating the two Koreas, and were spotted flying in those areas in Gimpo, Ganghwa Island and Paju, leading to temporary suspensions of civilian flights. It marks the first such intrusion in five years.

One of them flew all the way to the northern part of Seoul, while the rest hovered in and around Ganghwa Island, west of the capital, the JCS said.

The South issued warning messages, fired warning shots, and scrambled fighters, attack helicopters and other warplanes to remove them, while it remains unconfirmed whether the vehicles carry any weapons, the official said.

At some point, military choppers are said to have fired some 100 shots at the North's vehicles but failed to shoot them down.

In a corresponding step, the South sent its own manned and unmanned assets to the border areas, with some into the North to carry out surveillance and other operations, including taking photos of "key enemy military facilities," according to the JCS.

"This is a clear act of provocation by North Korea that encroached upon our territorial air," Maj. Gen. Lee Seung-o, director of operations at the JCS, told a press briefing. "Our military will respond thoroughly and sternly to such a North Korean provocation going forward."

The military also deployed a KA-1 light attack aircraft, but for an unknown reason, it crashed in Hoengseong County, about 140 kilometers east of Seoul, at 11:39 a.m. Both of the pilots escaped safely.… (more)

[ORAC]

https://twitter.com/marco_langbroek/status/1626945720967208961?s=61&t=8MdAeLaw-R9e-4Qd1C3luA


Approximate trajectory flown by the ICBM that North Korea tested today. A highly lofted trajectory. (reconstruction based on Japanese DoD info).

When launched on a 'normal', non-lofted trajectory, the range would be 18000+ km, i.e. capable of reaching any place on Earth.


https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1187x800/image_5836e5f466395bc78c93614efb970210d0357c62.jpeg

Today's North Korean ICBM test "lofted" trajectory (yellow) compared to the orbital altitude of the International Space Station ISS (green), to give a sense of the altitudes involved.


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1272x814/image_4f6ffea4249b1b412af245c6f31e98dc6e99650e.jpeg
​​​​​​​

[Asturias56]

Ok -they have an "Atlas" equivalent now.....................

[Imagegear]

NK is witnessing the implosion of Russia and recognises that if one component of the triad changes politically and economically, they will quickly fall completely under the influence of Big Brother to the North. I'm not sure that this all nuclear posturing is all about kicking the USA.

IG

[Asturias56]

I agree - the family Kim know their history

[SASless]

You suppose that "any place on earth" includes places that can/would reciprocate?

Kim is not stupid no matter how hard folks try to make him out to be.

There is no benefit to being a Dictator if you are dead or out of power (which usually results with becoming deceased for some reason).

Such scheming by Dictators has to include that key ingredient.

[Bug]

You suppose that "any place on earth" includes places that can/would reciprocate?

Kim is not stupid no matter how hard folks try to make him out to be.

There is no benefit to being a Dictator if you are dead or out of power (which usually results with becoming deceased for some reason).

Such scheming by Dictators has to include that key ingredient.

The reciprocal of that, it makes him effectively invulnerable to external attack, which is the point of him and others going all out to get them and a significant delivery means.
The era of nuclear proliferation is about to accelerate.

[Asturias56]

"The era of nuclear proliferation is about to accelerate."

Not sure - it's a big and very expensive step - normally it's been when countries see a direct and real threat to themselves - USSR/US/France/UK; Israel/Iran, India/Pakistan

IMHO N Korea was rattled by the regime change in Afghanistan, Iraq & Libya and decided to buy insurance. They bluster a lot but the only place they really threaten is S Korea - I have never read or heard they planned to invade anyone else.

[jolihokistix]

DPRK has occasionally threatened to turn Tokyo into a sea of fire.

It is also common knowledge that US bases throughout the Pacific are targets.

[Asturias56]

DPRK mouths off worse than Trump - but frpm a practical point of view they don't seem terribly adept at exporting their philosophy elsewhere - they seem happy enough at home - where that includes RSK

[Less Hair]

They fired missiles over Japan. I can understand why Japan is arming up now.

[Lyneham Lad]

In The Times today.
North Korea missile test: ‘most powerful weapon to date’ launched (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/north-korea-missile-ballistic-test-japan-evacuation-2023-xn07l7tp0)The North Korean leader Kim Jong-un oversaw the test launch of a new kind of nuclear-capable intercontinental ballistic missile — one that will “constantly strike extreme uneasiness and horror” into its enemies, state media reported.

The Korean Central News Agency confirmed what the South Korean armed forces had already tentatively concluded — that the missile fired into the sea this week was the first of its type to be powered by solid fuel. This means it is quicker and easier to deploy and launch without being detected and destroyed on the ground by US and South Korean forces.

“[The new missile] will make the enemy . . . experience a clearer security crisis, and constantly strike extreme uneasiness and horror into them by taking fataland offensive counter-actions until they abandon their senseless thinking and reckless acts,” Kim told the military unit that launched the new missile, the Hwasong-18.

“The development of the new type ICBM Hwasong-18 will extensively reform the strategic deterrence components of the DPRK [Democratic People’s Republic of Korea], radically promote the effectiveness of its nuclear counter-attack posture (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/north-korean-nuclear-test-radiation-leaves-hundreds-of-thousands-at-risk-m0b80hw2p) and bring about a change in the practicality of its offensive military strategy.”

Other North Korean ballistic missiles rely on liquid propellant that has to be injected into the weapon shortly before launching. This time-consuming process leaves it vulnerable to being spotted and destroyed on the ground, unlike a solid-fuelled missile, which can be stored pre-fuelled, deployed and fired quickly.


Photographs showed Kim at the launch site with his wife, Ri Sol-ju, his sister, Kim Yo-jong, and his young daughter, who is believed to be called Kim Ju-ae. Video, shot from fixed cameras and aerial drones, shows the missile — with its nose painted in a black and white check pattern — rising from its mobile launcher and roaring into the sky above the broad Taedong river, outside Pyongyang.

According to the news agency report, the second and third stages of the rocket were in a steeply lofted vertical trajectory, which took it far beyond Earth’s atmosphere and caused it to come down in to the Sea of Japan (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/north-korea-ballistic-missile-icbm-japan-summit-7kn830t28) just 620 miles from where it was launched.

However, the first stage was on a conventional missile trajectory, closer to the horizontal. This appears to be what confused Japan’s automated air raid warning system, which warned people to take cover (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/north-korea-missile-ballistic-test-japan-evacuation-2023-xn07l7tp0) after indications the missile was on course to strike the northern island of Hokkaido.

A considerable turn of the ratchet-wheel...

[Less Hair]

Solid rocket fuel. Sounds like they want to create sub launched missiles?
Why is China letting this happen?

[T28B]

Solid rocket fuel. Sounds like they want to create sub launched missiles?
Why is China letting this happen?The obvious answer to that is, in my view, because the Chinese know that they are not on the target list.

[Less Hair]

They might very well end up there one day whenever they might want to get rid of that clan.

[NutLoose]

The obvious answer to that is, in my view, because the Chinese know that they are not on the target list.

But surely a retaliatory strike on North Korea would wind dependent seriously mess up China on the border and beyond?.

[tdracer]

Solid rocket fuel. Sounds like they want to create sub launched missiles?
Why is China letting this happen?
Solid is the rocket fuel of choice for ICBMs due to the reaction times. Unless you use 'room temperature' stable fuels (e.g. USAF Titan) - which have their own problems - you can't leave a liquid fueled rocket fueled for any length of time. So quick response times are hugely problematic. Solid rockets can stay on ready alert indefinitely and hence are the preferred choice even for land based.

[Asturias56]

eg Minuteman.....................

[Imagegear]

Let's face it, Russia had, and still has, many more ICBM's that any other Nation on Earth, but their entire Nuclear posture has be shown for what it is, in the light of of a very committed Ukrainian fight back, which they appear to be on track to win. Not to mention every other Nation who is supporting Ukraine at considerable cost and commitment. Nope, Nuclear threats are a thing of the past.

Not even a tactical Nuke has been thrown in Ukraine yet. I suspect the same philosophy will prove to be the case in China, North Korea, and other rogue States, who will also baulk at the prospect of being consigned to Glass should they even try anything. Equally, the US/UK and other nations in the West with Nukes, have shown that they are fully committed Ukraine, and in the same way, to the ultimate deterrent and WILL push that "Button", should it be necessary.

Conventional wars will, of course continue, because there is no other alternative unless someone becomes unhinged when everything goes irretrievably pear-shaped.

IG

[Lyneham Lad]

In The Times today. (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/north-korea-tactical-nuclear-submarine-us-sub-bm73qg3b9)
North Korea has launched its first “tactical nuclear attack submarine”, according to state media, in advance of tomorrow’s celebrations marking the 75th anniversary of the nation’s founding. Kim Jong-un, its supreme leader, attended the launch ceremony on Wednesday and inspected the submarine, according to the Korean Central News Agency (KCNA). However, analysts from South Korea and the UK expressed doubts that the submarine would be capable of firing nuclear missiles.

With its typical hyperbole, the KCNA report claimed: “When the respected Comrade Kim Jong-un arrived at the submarine-launching venue, all the participants broke into enthusiastic cheers as a token of their admiration for the iron-willed brilliant commander and outstanding leader of the people who is paving a broad avenue toward great victory and prosperity with his world-famous matchless pluck and courage, ardent love and trust in the people, and tireless dedication to the building of a prosperous country with powerful army.”

During a speech at the launch, in an apparent response to the US deployment of nuclear submarines (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/us-nuclear-submarine-ballistic-missiles-south-korea-done-seo-us-nuclear-submarine-32szfwr9k) in the region, Kim was quoted as saying: “The fact that the nuclear attack submarine, considered a symbol of invasion against our republic for decades, now symbolises our power that terrifies the shameless enemies and that it is a new attack submarine of our own style unseen by the world, is truly something welcomed by all our people.”

Photographs issued by state media of submarine No 841 — named “Hero Kim Kun Ok” after a North Korean naval commander — show what appear to be four large and six small launch tubes for submarine-launched ballistic missiles. But an official from South Korea’s joint chiefs of staff said that the tubes were modifications to an existing Romeo-class submarine, a Soviet-era design from the 1950s, and may not actually work.

“An analysis of the external features of the North Korean submarine so far shows that parts of it have been enlarged to carry a missile,” the military in Seoul said. “But it is assessed that the submarine is not in the form of being capable of normal operation.” Joseph Dempsey, a researcher at the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London, said: “This is the same — albeit more extensively modified — submarine North Korea showed us way back in July 2019. As a platform it will have some fundamental limitations and vulnerabilities.”

As well as staging a series of provocative missile launches this year, North Korea has also been cultivating ties with Russia and China in response to recently strengthened security cooperation between South Korea, the US and Japan. There have been reports that Kim is set to meet President Putin in Vladivostok (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kim-jong-un-plans-talks-with-putin-over-arms-for-ukraine-war-xg3xsvnls)next week to for talks on a deal to supply Russia with arms, provoking condemnation and threats of reprisals from Washington.

Kim In-ae, spokeswoman for South Korea’s unification ministry, which takes a harder line on Pyongyang than the previous administration, criticised the North for “squandering its scarce resources into its futile weapons development while disregarding living difficulties (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/north-korea-typhoon-kim-jong-un-food-shortage-kkjk0ks8q) of its people”.

The communist regime’s weapons programmes and threats “only puts their security at risk in the face of an overwhelming response from the strengthened South Korea-US-Japan joint posture”, she added.

[1771 DELETE]

It looks like a 60`s Soviet Golf.

[Jason Burry]

Reportedly a modified Romeo....

[Bengo]

I doubt that many pingers are interested in what it looks like. What does it sound like?

[Party Animal]

If it’s Doppler high to the noise source, it will sound like ‘dick’. If it’s Doppler low then it will sound like ‘dock’! Simples 😉

[Asturias56]

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/865x487/2023_09_09_n_korea_sub_080752_341a5a4d24e1bb1fec77a2dbdb86ec a515dcf12f.jpg

[artee]

If it’s Doppler high to the noise source, it will sound like ‘dick’. If it’s Doppler low then it will sound like ‘dock’! Simples 😉
Captained by Dick-son of Dock Green.:E
I wonder if they'll sell us a few. Saves wrangling the Virgiinias out of the US.

[ORAC]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/north-korea-nuclear-reactor-shut-down-warheads-missiles-qpmqthw70

North Korea turns off nuclear reactor ‘to extract fuel for warheads’

Regime could gain enough weapons-grade plutonium for up to four bombs, intelligence agencies fearNorth Korea has turned off the nuclear reactor that is its main source of weapons material, opening the way for it to extract enough spent fuel to build at least four more nuclear bombs, according to reports citing US and South Korean intelligence.

The South Korean government said that it is closely monitoring the Yongbyon nuclear power plant, after a report in the Dong-A newspaper that its five megawatt reactor was shut down late last month. According to an unnamed South Korean government official cited in the report, intelligence agencies suspect this had been done in order to extract plutonium fuel and process it into the key ingredient of nuclear warheads.

The reactor has been in continuous operation for more than two years, meaning that it could generate 12 to 16kg of weapons-grade plutonium, enough to make three or four 15-kiloton warheads — about the same size as the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima.

“The US and South Korean authorities believe it could be a sign of reprocessing work to obtain weapons-grade plutonium,” a South Korean government source told the Dong-A.…

[Asturias56]

seems a short term answer to an unknown problem?

[Lyneham Lad]

Article in The Times. (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/kim-jong-un-north-korea-nuclear-attack-weapons-war-ftcm3w2l5)

Kim Jong-un has warned he would “launch a nuclear attack without hesitation” if provoked by his enemies, state media reported on Thursday.

The North Korean leader made the threat while talking to the military unit which successfully launched an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) on Monday, according to the North’s official Korean Central News Agency.

Monday’s launch was “a clear explanation of the offensive counteraction mode and the evolution of the nuclear strategy and doctrine of the DPRK not to hesitate [to launch] even a nuclear attack when the enemy provoke it with nukes”, said Kim, according to the agency.

The United States, South Korea and Japan have been strengthening military co-operation and joint capabilities in response to the unprecedented frequency of missile launches (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/north-korea-nuclear-weapons-kim-jong-un-0s5cxq8pp) and other weapons tests by the Pyongyang regime this year, which include five ICBM firings.

South Korea and the US held their second Nuclear Consultative Group meeting last week, agreeing to establish guidelines on a joint nuclear strategy by the middle of next year and to conduct military drills stimulating a nuclear attack by the North.

The launch of the solid-fuel Hwasong-18 ICBM by the North this week was seen by observers as a reaction to that meeting. The missile reached an altitude of more than 6,500km and flew more than 1,000km, landing outside Japanese territorial waters. Japanese defence sources said that on a normal trajectory the missile could have flown more than 15,000km, putting the entire US in range (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/north-korea-nuclear-attack-us-ballistic-missile-defence-23xxkjbth). (my bold).

In a further sign that the threat from Kim’s regime is being taken seriously, Seoul, Washington and Tokyo said on Tuesday that they had activated a new shared system to detect and assess missile launches by the North.

The three countries also announced that they had approved a multi-year plan for trilateral military exercises. Kim Yo-jong, sister of the North Korean leader, launched an angry response to a clash between representatives from the North and Russia and their US and South Korean counterparts at a UN Security Council meeting on Tuesday over the ICBM launch. “The US and its vassal forces are persistently pushing the security environment on the Korean peninsula and in northeast Asia into a vortex of confrontation and conflict,” she said in a statement also carried by the official news agency. “Their intentional and premeditated military threats are anti-peace moves to squarely challenge the desire of mankind for peace and stability on the Korean peninsula and in northeast Asia and the rest of the world,” she added.