A350 Fuselage coating cracks

[Bergerie1]

Does anyone have more information on this? A Qatar Airways’ Airbus A350-900, registered A7-ALL, was ferried to Shannon Airport (SNN) in Ireland, on November 13, 2020. There, aviation painting company International Aerospace Coatings (IAC) was supposed to give it a special livery to celebrate the 2022 FIFA World Cup to be held in Qatar.

However, after the original livery was removed, cracks in the fuselage were reportedly found in the composite (CFRP) fuselage. It should now be ferried to Airbus headquarters in Toulouse for inspection and repairs.

https://www.aerotime.aero/26851-crac...qatar-a350-xwb (https://www.aerotime.aero/26851-cracks-found-in-composite-fuselage-of-qatar-a350-xwb)

[DaveReidUK]

I'll be interested to see how close to the tail the cracks were found.


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/800x650/a7_all_collision_at_male_ccc83b309501e57e481e6e9e626ecc1477e e4f38.jpg

[Longtimer]

re the ground strike, it was evidently on the left elevator.
Serious incident Airbus A330-343 9M-XXC, 07 Jul 2018 (aviation-safety.net) (https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=212989)
There is a link to the accident investigation than can be downloaded as a pdf file.

[Bergerie1]

What has this ground incident got to do with the Qatar A350 reg A7-ALL? Has this A350 been involved with any unusual incdents? We need some information from Airbus.

[Ben_S]

Surely the relevance is obvious. It was the other aircraft involved in the incident as per the report.

[Bergerie1]

Apologies to one and all, I should have read the report rather than just looking at the headlines. But we still need information from Airbus.

[jeehaa]

Just saw that the aircraft was ferried to TLS today and actually flew at FL410. I am curious about what kind of cracks they’ve found.
Surely it wasn’t structeral.

[DaveReidUK]

If the cracks were in the rear fuselage, they may have been outside the pressure hull.

[Speed_Alive_V1]

" (https://www.airlive.net/alert-premature-cracks-were-found-in-the-fuselage-of-a-qatar-airways-a350/)The issue is superficial / cosmetic and only visible when the top coat of paint is stripped. It is not a structural composite issue." (https://www.airlive.net/alert-premature-cracks-were-found-in-the-fuselage-of-a-qatar-airways-a350/)

Interesting to see what Airbus will come back with - it was ferried from Shannon to Toulouse yesterday.

[flypaddy]

This has escalated.

I’m unable to post links but Google “Qatar A350” for news of 13 hulls grounded.

[tubby linton]

Ap news has the following story
https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-business-qatar-a372ffe4e9fad9918fae6aaa15982317

[DaveReidUK]

"Following the explicit written instruction of its regulator, 13 aircraft have now been grounded."

Yeah, right.

[MCDU2]

Seems a bit fishy to me. Perhaps if EASA or the FAA had ordered the withdrawal from service......We will no doubt see in a few days if other regulators follow suit.

[Airmann]

This is not a safety related issue. Qatar's main issue is that the cracks are appearing too early in the life cycle of the plane. They are now in discussion (argument) with Airbus over the way forward. They feel the aircraft are aging too quickly.

End of story. This sort of thing happens between manufacturers and their customers all the time. Qatar is just using the regulator and the media to add more pressure on Airbus to resolve.

[Anti Skid On]

OK, so there are two threads about what appears to be the same issue

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/640962-a350-abnormal-skin-problems.html?highlight=A350+paint

As stated in the other thread, considerable feeling that this is Qatar looking to extract $$'s from Airbus.

[illusion]

Reading between the lines- the Arabs are running out of oil and gas, they have too many aircraft, not enough customers and fishing for a free feed from Airbus.....

[turbidus]

This could be a number of things...there is a skim coat applied to the aircraft to smooth it all out prior to painting...cracks in this coating can translate to surface cracks in the composite material.
It may be something as simple as sanding off the skim coat and re-application of a different kind of skimcoat....

[ATC Watcher]

I fly a composite GA aircraft , much smaller, not the speed of an 350/787 of course, but cracks in the surface are not uncommon because the 2K paint typically used is not exactly as flexible as the composite it covers. Not nice to look at and needs repair as moisture gets into the cracks, but not really a safety issue. But I do not know which paint /primer they use on 350s/787s.one would expect they had an engineering solution to this as this phenomenon is known.

[FiveGirlKit]

Qatar A350: EASA Taking No Action (at this time)! - Mentour Pilot (https://mentourpilot.com/qatar-a350-easa-taking-no-action-at-this-time/)

“Based on the data provided to EASA, there is no indication that the paint and protection degradation affects the structure of the aircraft or introduces other risks, and so EASA is not intending to take any action as State of Design for this issue at this time. No other airlines have reported paint and protection damage.”

[Anti Skid On]

And also this https://www.airlinerwatch.com/2021/08/sia-no-problems-detected-on-airbus.html

Singapore have 55 with no problems detected

[unobtanium]

Very few problems are discovered in SIAEC

[Less Hair]

At least five other airlines are affected.
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/costly-airbus-paint-flaw-goes-wider-than-gulf-2021-11-29/

[LandIT]

Tired of "ongoing mischaracterisation of the non-structural surface degradation" and having "proposed solutions dismissed"...
https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2021-12-airbus-preparing-for-an-independent-legal-assessment-in-response-to

[WillowRun 6-3]

What does Airbus mean by the phrase, "independent legal assessment"?

Is it something other than legal steps to be taken by attorneys advising and/or representing Airbus - and if so, what exactly is it? Example of former: letter from legal counsel demanding that customer "cease and desist" from objectionable conduct (and credibly threatening legal recourse such as lawsuit or invoking contractual terms unfavorable to customer). Example of other: __?__

Inquiring SLF/attorney wants to know.

[WillFlyForCheese]

The above-cited Reuters article contains pictures of the alleged defects - which are characterized as cracks that reveal the aircraft's lightning protection mesh covering. Airbus claims that this is not an air-worthiness issue - but is simply cosmetic. Perhaps the "legal assessment" is looking into possible legal action against Qatar for continuing to alleged the aircraft are not airworthy? Action for slander? That's this lawyer's guess.

Cosmetic defect sure looks bad.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x900/7nawavpmubikpi6at4ej5gzmse_3ea0cf1941bbd61f6501092fcc6c981c9 347df6b.jpg
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https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x900/dq6jyh63a5kexducehoskag4k4_695506242e939c3f4e9d52d79823f4052 ec913b8.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1200x900/4nrwu7auxnkfposdmwqk3lp2ze_b888426810a570887866e531eff250c5a 99e4073.jpg

[megan]

Wow, composites a step too far?

[LandIT]

In an interview with Washington Post, Qatar Airways CEO Akbar Al Baker said that the European plane maker had destroyed its business relationship with the carrier and it would be difficult to repair the frayed relationship with Airbus. “We can always let the water pass under the bridge and move on,” Al Baker said. “With Airbus, the damage is very severe. I don’t know how we will be able to work with them again,” he added.

Qatar Airways is one of Airbus’ largest customers, but the two are now in a dispute over paint and surface defects on the jets, forcing the Qatari carrier to ground at least 21 of its 53 Airbus A350s. The airline had said it has paused A350 deliveries and is planning to lease a significant number of aircraft to back up the A350s that were withdrawn from service. At least four Boeing 777s will come from Cathay Pacific Airways.

[FMS82]

So he can't imagine ever working with Airbus again. I'm fairly sure there will not be many tears shed in Toulouse if this is the last they see of this clown.

And the only viable competitor isn't able to deliver any 787 and has major issues getting it's rehashed 777 done on time. Yep, great position you've maneuvered yourself in, Akbar

[1201alarm]

Great for Boeing, with this they can negotiate much higher prices with QR.

[Less Hair]

This might even save the 777X.

[Big Pistons Forever]

In an interview with Washington Post, Qatar Airways CEO Akbar Al Baker said that the European plane maker had destroyed its business relationship with the carrier and it would be difficult to repair the frayed relationship with Airbus. “We can always let the water pass under the bridge and move on,” Al Baker said. “With Airbus, the damage is very severe. I don’t know how we will be able to work with them again,” he added.

Qatar Airways is one of Airbus’ largest customers, but the two are now in a dispute over paint and surface defects on the jets, forcing the Qatari carrier to ground at least 21 of its 53 Airbus A350s. The airline had said it has paused A350 deliveries and is planning to lease a significant number of aircraft to back up the A350s that were withdrawn from service. At least four Boeing 777s will come from Cathay Pacific Airways.

Just media posturing. All airlines play Boeing and Airbus against each other. I predict that Quatar will buy plenty more Airbus airplanes in the future, after leveraging a slightly more favorable deal.

[Less Hair]

I'd say the more noisy this gets the more expensive his deals will be, be it A or B.

[llagonne66]

Given the current backlog situation for A & B, I guess A won't be displeased to get rid of such a customer that is more a pain in the a.. than something else.
And B will be quite pleased to overcharge him to get him the slots he wants (ASAP as usual until he nitpicks on meaningless details on each A/C to be delivered).

[WHBM]

I do find it surprising that this issue comes up now, The first A350 flew in early 2013, and of course had extensive testing. Qatar Airways actually had the first delivery, built and delivered at the end of 2014. That's 7 years ago, since when they have been in daily use. Surely such an issue would have arisen before now, and to the prototype more than any other. Some aircraft will have been sold on, and gone through a strip and repaint, and no longer have the original manufacturer's application. Have the earlier Qatar aircraft had a periodic repaint in their time ?

[DaveReidUK]

I don't think stripping and repainting is the issue, except that the problem with cracks in the CFRP (see the very first post) appears to have been discovered when the aircraft in question was stripped for a repaint in January (and has not flown since).

[Less Hair]

It has flown to Toulouse.

[Maninthebar]

It has flown to Toulouse.

In the game of pedantry top trumps, ladies and gentleberries, WE HAVE A WINNER

Chapeau!

[Less Hair]

You miss the point that the flight proves that the damage is cosmetic.

[Maninthebar]

Um, does it?

The flight demonstrates that the manufacturer thought
a) the damage did not threaten the safety of the airframe for a non-revenue flight
b) the damage warranted further work at HQ, rather than minor treatment in the field

Whatever remedial work is done by Airbus may demonstrate the nature of the failure, I don't THINK the flight itself does.

I did like your comment, very much, though.

[Less Hair]

In the game of pedantry top trumps, ladies and gentleberries, WE HAVE A WINNER

Chapeau!

[lederhosen]

Mr Al Baker has been a difficult, some might just say demanding customer for as long as I can remember. He does it because it seems to work for him. In some ways he reminds me of O'Leary, outspoken but not always wrong. He is engaged in high stakes poker over an issue where he obviously feels aggrieved. Judging by the photos there is clearly a technical issue with the paint bonding. Over the lifetime of the aircraft it has the potential to be a very expensive issue. Airbus are almost certainly right that the wings are not going to fall off and that they think that they have a solution. The question is who pays, particularly for the consequences of Qatar's preemptive and highly expensive grounding. So far the manufacturers have tended to blink first. In the brave new world post covid I am not so sure. The only certain winners are the lawyers.

[Lord Bracken]

Mr Al Baker has been a difficult, some might just say demanding customer for as long as I can remember. He does it because it seems to work for him. In some ways he reminds me of O'Leary, outspoken but not always wrong. He is engaged in high stakes poker over an issue where he obviously feels aggrieved. Judging by the photos there is clearly a technical issue with the paint bonding. Over the lifetime of the aircraft it has the potential to be a very expensive issue. Airbus are almost certainly right that the wings are not going to fall off and that they think that they have a solution. The question is who pays, particularly for the consequences of Qatar's preemptive and highly expensive grounding. So far the manufacturers have tended to blink first. In the brave new world post covid I am not so sure. The only certain winners are the lawyers.

Mentioning AAB in the same breath as MOL is a serious insult to MOL. The latter has built a highly successful and profitable airline almost from scratch in a highly competitive environment, with no state support, facing up against some extremely powerful incumbents. The former writes checks.

[DaveReidUK]

Mentioning AAB in the same breath as MOL is a serious insult to MOL. The former has built a highly successful and profitable airline almost from scratch in a highly competitive environment, with no state support, facing up against some extremely powerful incumbents. The latter writes checks.

You might want to check the dictionary definitions of "former" and "latter". :O

[lederhosen]

Despite the juxtaposition of former and latter Lord Bracken I get your drift. However both men have been in charge of their respective successful airlines for around a quarter of a century. Both polarize opinion particularly amongst their work forces and both enjoy a provocative sound bite. If you were asked which of them was most likely to have said in July 2017, in a speech at a dinner in Ireland, that US airlines were "crap" and their passengers were "always being served by grandmothers“ you would probably agree it could have been either. Friends at Airbus tell me dealing with Qatar has always been très compliqué, with endless delays handing over new jets arguing for example about toilet seats. I think Al-Baker believes this difficult client behavior gets results. It will be interesting to see if that continues to be the case.

[llagonne66]

Despite the juxtaposition of former and latter Lord Bracken I get your drift. However both men have been in charge of their respective successful airlines for around a quarter of a century. Both polarize opinion particularly amongst their work forces and both enjoy a provocative sound bite. If you were asked which of them was most likely to have said in July 2017, in a speech at a dinner in Ireland, that US airlines were "crap" and their passengers were "always being served by grandmothers“ you would probably agree it could have been either. Friends at Airbus tell me dealing with Qatar has always been très compliqué, with endless delays handing over new jets arguing for example about toilet seats. I think Al-Baker believes this difficult client behavior gets results. It will be interesting to see if that continues to be the case.
"Très compliqué" is an understatement ... and if it was only about toilet seats :rolleyes:
Dealing with QTR is :ugh:

[Lord Bracken]

You might want to check the dictionary definitions of "former" and "latter". :O

Whoops. Apologies for the brainfart.

[DIBO]

What does Airbus mean by the phrase, "independent legal assessment"?Well, this next step taken by Qatar is a much more clearer statement: Qatar Airways issues legal proceedings against Airbus in the Technology and Construction division of the High Court in London (https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/qatar-airways/qatar-airways-takes-airbus-to-high-court-in-london-over-a350-paint-issue/)

[Chris2303]

Well, this next step taken by Qatar is a much more clearer statement: Qatar Airways issues legal proceedings against Airbus in the Technology and Construction division of the High Court in London (https://www.aviation24.be/airlines/qatar-airways/qatar-airways-takes-airbus-to-high-court-in-london-over-a350-paint-issue/)

I hope that they won't be wanting any more Airbus aircraft in the future

[Chris2303]

Meanwhile Boeing aren't exempt from paint problems on the 787

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/127369659/paint-peeling-on-wings-of-air-new-zealands-boeing-7879-dreamliners

[DaveReidUK]

Presumably the same problem that was identified in a SAFO (https://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/safo/all_safos/media/2020/SAFO20006.pdf)in early 2020, traced to UV damage between the primer and resin layers on the upper wing.

[HOVIS]

Meanwhile Boeing aren't exempt from paint problems on the 787

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/127369659/paint-peeling-on-wings-of-air-new-zealands-boeing-7879-dreamliners
Not just Air NZ either. I've seen sheets of surface paint get blasted off by de icing sprayers on quite a few 787s.

[LandIT]

Qatar Airways released a video of the paint damage (shows some A350 registrations). This seems to be in response (or at least occurred soon after) to Airbus cancelling their order for A321's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKN0SpWeILo&ab_channel=QatarAirways

[Auxtank]

Contract lost;

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/22/airbus-cancels-6bn-contract-with-qatar-airways-amid-dispute

[Chiefttp]

Have other A-350 operators experienced these same issues?

[Chris2303]

Lets go back to the original post #1 on this thread.

Did IAC not use the correct procedure for this airframe?

[LandIT]

I think the video shows four airframes affected and that doesn't include A7-ALL where it allegedly was first discovered.
It was reported elsewhere that some other airlines' A350's were affected but I haven't seen other groundings. I haven't seen other A350 coating legal proceedings either!

[Less Hair]

It looks like two issues:
1. Bad paint chipping and peeling off, however it looks like happening only on certain sections of the same fuselage? Might be the new "green" water based paint interacting with the primer or similar and depending on the fabrication site?
2. The upper protection skin layer cracking and splintering opening the lower layers like the copper mesh to the elements.

[LandIT]

Mr William Walsh, President of IATA has now been quoted as saying (about the Court action between Qatar Airways and Airbus over the A350 surface coating issue)...
"I would hate to think that one of the suppliers is taking advantage of their current market strength to exploit their position, and that is something we are watching very closely," Walsh told reporters when asked about the issue during a press conference.

But if Qatar Airways refuses to take delivery of any more A350's over "paint coating" issues and is asking the Court to stop Airbus delivering any more A350's and after Qatar Airways said that "with Airbus the damage is very severe, I don’t know that we will be able to work with them again" then isn't Airbus entitled to now conclude that Qatar Airways no longer wishes to do business with them? Is Airbus really obligated to do business with a customer which refuses to take delivery of airplanes and is suing it?

[DaveReidUK]

Is the President of the airlines' trade association going to take the side of one of its member airlines, or of a manufacturer? Tricky decision ...

[procede]

Is the President of the airlines' trade association going to take the side of one of its member airlines, or of a manufacturer? Tricky decision ...
No doubt who is paying his salary. What probably does limit his empathy is that it is a carrier from the Middle East and he was the former president of BA...

I do not think he is good friends with Al Baker.

[andrasz]

I do not think he is good friends with Al Baker.

WW wooed AAB into the oneWorld fold after Qantas jumped into bed with Emirates...

[Airmann]

I do not think he is good friends with Al Baker. actually he's great friends with Al Bakr. You obviously don't know too much about the history of QR and IAG/BA.

[LandIT]

Apparently the London Court has denied Qatar's action to require Airbus to continue making the A321's on order. Qatar objected to Airbus connecting the A321 order with Qatar's refusal to take further deliveries of their A350 order. The A350 deliveries are in dispute because Qatar's regulator (the Board has some common personnel to Qatar Airways) ruled there are safety issues with the cracking paint. This is despite Airbus attempting to remedy with Qatar and then Qatar taking several more of their A350's out of service and also letting them all deteriorate further without repair or repaint and suing Airbus for massive amounts of damages. Let's see how that Court case goes for them.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/apr/26/qatar-airways-loses-high-court-airbus-a321neo

[back to Boeing]

Out of curiosity for someone who knows nothing about legalities. A European manufacturer based in France being sued by a Qatari company. Why is the case being heard in the U.K.?

[Less Hair]

IIRC the sale legally happened in the UK?

[oceancrosser]

Out of curiosity for someone who knows nothing about legalities. A European manufacturer based in France being sued by a Qatari company. Why is the case being heard in the U.K.?
AFAIK it is quite usual in international contracts to stipulate that English Contract Law and English Courts apply in case of disagreement. So it is by mutual agreement.

[WillowRun 6-3]

I concur with oceancrosser.
Contracts especially between parties in different countries typically include provisions which state what court will have jurisdiction in case of dispute and what law that court will apply (respectively, forum selection, and choice of law, provisions).

[LandIT]

At a further hearing a judge has denied Qatar's request for Airbus to stop trying to deliver their A350 orders (when Qatar refuse them it triggers financial penalties) and can even then sell them to other airlines. Clearly this has gone against Qatar's arguments of safety and damages. The full case is now set for three entertaining weeks in the summer next year. The judge suggested the parties reflect before then, voicing that the amount of time (money) being spent on legal teams looked disproportionate to a likely outcome and remarking the case "looks unsettleable, however that may change"!

The known facts seem to be that the A350's surface coating is not lasting as long as coatings on metal skinned airplanes. The 787 has similar problems and Qatar is not the only airline affected, but is the only one having stopped using affected examples and is suing Airbus. The closeups show the surface coating has cracked, peeled and exposed the metal lightning protection mesh. A lot more than the top layer of paint seems to be affected (surface coating has many layers before final coats of paint, graphics and gloss), but not the basic carbon structure of the fuselage. Airbus say they worked with Qatar to advise on repair/recoat but Qatar say that's not good enough and want a permanent solution. Meantime they fly their younger examples but refuse to take any more. Other airlines continue to fly their A350 fleets and enjoy the efficiency and passenger comfort. Presumably they are repairing/recoating as required. New A350 sales are being made by Airbus and the plane seems to be a successful, reliable and safe product. It must therefore raise the likelihood that a huge amount claimed by Qatar when they refused to get the surface coating repaired/re-coated and not flying some of their A350's is highly questionable to succeed. If that is accepted then why is Qatar so doggedly continuing to prosecute this law suit? They seem to need the planes as they have had to resurrect some of their A380's. We may see a reluctant return to try to settle with Airbus before summer and of course for an undisclosed amount.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/qatar-wins-speedy-trial-loses-procedural-claims-airbus-clash-2022-05-26/

[LandIT]

... and this one isn't even a A350

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjoNllzp-KrxTFv_8dnrxfs7ETyn9wgyNQK8XcX6DXaI6gJT8Fsd-MpAVyhljkJIz0oGx4HndS6ew-nPbytFnYt0l-hhZfI6WiqCMxF28AyoCzVwbLHTkRUCTm6cjF0-h4mpNMH7rFpRdjYmX0boA_DxKZEpl-ntrNyV05M77jj46NRm1iEs1_fyGQjmw/s16000/Uunited_Jet.jpg (https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjoNllzp-KrxTFv_8dnrxfs7ETyn9wgyNQK8XcX6DXaI6gJT8Fsd-MpAVyhljkJIz0oGx4HndS6ew-nPbytFnYt0l-hhZfI6WiqCMxF28AyoCzVwbLHTkRUCTm6cjF0-h4mpNMH7rFpRdjYmX0boA_DxKZEpl-ntrNyV05M77jj46NRm1iEs1_fyGQjmw/s2200/Uunited_Jet.jpg)

After nearly two years in the desert, planes with giant flakes of paint peeling from their fuselages can face long wait times at paint shops.

[mayam13]

Does anyone have more information on this? A Qatar Airways’ Airbus A350-900, registered A7-ALL, was ferried to Shannon Airport (SNN) in Ireland, on November 13, 2020. There, aviation painting company International Aerospace Coatings (IAC) was supposed to give it a special livery to celebrate the 2022 FIFA World Cup to be held in Qatar.

However, after the original livery was removed, cracks in the fuselage were reportedly found in the composite (CFRP) fuselage. It should now be ferried to Airbus headquarters in Toulouse for inspection and repairs.

https://www.aerotime.aero/26851-crac...qatar-a350-xwb (https://www.aerotime.aero/26851-cracks-found-in-composite-fuselage-of-qatar-a350-xwb)
Assuming A7-ALL started its run in Qatar Airways in 2016 (as given),it is a miracle that it flew with a crack in the pressurized skin. It would be wise to check the 'paint removal process and tools employed' by the International Aerospace Coating Company. It needs to be verified whether different processes are employed for Aluminium and Composites

[LandIT]

According to sources speaking on condition of anonymity the rest of the Qatar order for A350's has been cancelled by Airbus.
Qatar had paused accepting A350 deliveries earlier during the dispute, the subject of litigation in London courts, over surface coating issues.
It appears the remaining 17 (might be 19 with the 2 undelivered) A350's still to be delivered to Qatar from their earlier order have now been cancelled by Airbus.

https://www.archyde.com/airbus-cancels-remaining-a350-order-for-qatar-airways/

[Nil by mouth]

According to the article Airbus is an airline! Are there any cheap seats on offer?
Quote:-
The two airlines have been locked in a rare public dispute for months over the condition of more than 20 long-haul planes that Qatar Airways says could pose a risk to passengers and Airbus says are perfectly safe.

[LandIT]

I wonder if Boeing have explained to Qatar Airways that the 787 has surface coating adhesion imperfection issues or under certain conditions anyway? If not then will we see a similar situation develop between Qatar and Boeing like the legal proceedings between Qatar and Airbus (that Qatar had hoped would be rapidly settled in the London Courts) for the A350 paint adhesion issues. If anyone has close-ups of the 787 surface coating deterioration I'm sure Qatar would be pleased to see what they might be in for after their 787's have been flying for a while. Not to worry - it appears that speed tape will cover it up alright. Nothing to see here. No safety issue. Just a visit to the paint shop required according to Boeing.

https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/5e830fe20de3ff6533f3a3cc0bbbcbf0

[Bergerie1]

Those wrinkles on the speedtape might have some interesting effects on the stall characteristics. Any experts care to comment?

[HOVIS]

Usually any critical speed tape temporary repair is inspected before each flight and reapplied if it shows signs of deterioration. Such as peeling.

[Less Hair]

How would this degraded taped surface affect performance calculations, say fuel flow and range?

[HOVIS]

It doesn't.
From the aircraft I've seen, this sort of thing is raised as a 'deferred item' as per the AMM. No performance restrictions or modifications quoted.

[fdr]

Those wrinkles on the speedtape might have some interesting effects on the stall characteristics. Any experts care to comment?

where they are located, they have almost negligible effect on stall characteristics. They do alter cruise drag, and depending on the location, they could alter the cruise trim state slightly, but nothing much. The flight crew wouldn't see the difference on the instruments, the bean counters might note a slight increase in fuel costs over time. If that was on the leading edge of the wing, then all bets are off, but they are not. Aft of 0.1C, there is not much effect on the stall. darned ugly though.

[Smudge's Lot]

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/1500x2000/tui787_1b8c86315ed52513b67e01c7467bd9522409204f.jpg
TUI 787 wing in April 2021........

[Asturias56]

its camouflage.................

[ATC Watcher]

What I find surprising on the TUI photo are the uneven rivets on the left, and on the foreground. The aircraft cannot the that old ...Is this normal ?

[Nil by mouth]

If they're going to repaint those taped surfaces it'll be a hell of a job removing all of those bits of tape and the sticky mess left behind.
A heat gun and turpentine is probably not an approved method?

[Jhieminga]

What I find surprising on the TUI photo are the uneven rivets on the left, and on the foreground. The aircraft cannot the that old ...Is this normal ?
I don't know if it is normal, but it may be related to the paint issue. With the amount of flex in the 787 wing, you need a lot of elasticity in the paint layer and perhaps the rivets are places where bits of paint start flaking off first.

[HOVIS]

If they're going to repaint those taped surfaces it'll be a hell of a job removing all of those bits of tape and the sticky mess left behind.
A heat gun and turpentine is probably not an approved method?
Standard solvent based cleaners can be used.

[unmanned_droid]

They're not rivets, and they're not uneven.

[LandIT]

Qatar Airways and Airbus reach amicable settlement in legal dispute
Airbus website link below, reporting that Qatar airways and Airbus have reached an amicable settlement of the A350 surface coating issue. News media also reporting that Qatar has accepted that Airbus reinstate their orders for 23 more A350's and also the 50 A321's previously cancelled by Airbus due to the dispute. Legal proceedings are discontinued. Reported that Airbus will repair the A350 surface coatings. The first of the 23 A350 deliveries are scheduled for later in 2023 and the first of the A321's are now scheduled for 2026. Remembering early reports in 2021 on the dispute that Qatar is taking legal action in London and hoping for an early resolution of the dispute, I wonder whether this settlement fits that expectation.

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2023-02-qatar-airways-and-airbus-reach-amicable-settlement-in-legal-dispute

[WHBM]

One wonders if they (particularly the A321s) are reinstated at the original delivery dates, and at the original price. The A350s I understand are mostly built already, and stored.

[zerograv]

the first of the A321's are now scheduled for 2026
(says on the post just above your post)

The popularity of the A321 Neo - over 3,600 of the variant are backlogged - has resulted in less flexibility for reinstating the agreement
in FlightGlobal

[llagonne66]

Looks like Mr Al Baker blinked first ... as he does need more the 350s and the 321neos than Airbus needs his business :E

[atakacs]

Not sure who balked but seen reason has finally prevailed. Better for all involved I’d say.

[llagonne66]

Not sure who balked but seen reason has finally prevailed. Better for all involved I’d say.

The settlement agreement being confidential, we may never know expect if it leaks someday.
Just a hunch feeling on my side :)

[Asturias56]

Looks like Mr Al Baker blinked first ... as he does need more the 350s and the 321neos than Airbus needs his business :E

Even Mr Baker recognises that tying yourself publicly to one supplier doesn't make much sense - no discounts from Mr B when you're a captive customer.